D'Antoni Benched Marbury because...

KBlack25 · Nov 7, 2008

One thing I think the Marbury fans haven't answered though, and it's always been my opinion, is that maybe Marbury starting ISN'T the best thing for the Knicks and here's why.

I've said it over and over the Knicks are NOT a championship team with Marbury, even Marbury lovers have to admit this team is a barely in playoffs/barely out of playoffs team this year with Marbury at the point. Marbury also will not be on this team next year whether he plays or doesn't play, I think everyone can also agree on that.

The improvement Marbury gives you actually hurts in the end. The Knicks owe either their 2009 or 2010 Draft Pick to Utah via the Stephon Marbury trade (PHX traded to Utah). The 2009 Pick is top 22 protected, meaning if the Knicks finish with draft picks 1-22, they do NOT have to give up their pick in 2009 BUT if that were to happen they would owe their 2010 Draft Pick either way.

So let's assume the Marbury fans were right, he should play, he made us a better team but not enough to be pick 23 or above. That means we get that pick in 2009. It would probably be around 11-15ish? Then, when Marbury leaves, and the team is worse off (as Marbury lovers state, this team is worse without Marbury) and finish out of the playoffs again but likely with a top 10 draft pick. That top 10 pick goes to Utah, and our hands are tied.

What does this mean for the 2009 Draft in terms of rebuilding (with or without Marbury that's what's happening)? It has to count. It. Has. To. Count. That means this team needs a solid pick this year whether they use it as a trade chip or they can actually get a difference maker in the draft. The Marbury trade is costing a lot of draft picks, let's at least try and be smart about it when we can.

In addition, Marbury is not in this team's future. We've seen Nate Rob flourish off the bench this year (I personally think he should be the starter), we've seen Chandler flourish (see my opinion on Nate Rob) and I think the important thing this year is to get these guys who are going to be around next year used to playing together. If Duhon is going to be the point guard of this team as Mike D'Antoni's chosen one, then he needs minutes.

Does Marbury make the team better this year, in 2008-09? Definitely, I buy that 100%. I think the team right now would be be better off with Steph this year. I'm just not sure his playing time and what's fair to Marbury is what's best for the team. Is he talented? He sure is. He's also untradeable, no amount of playing time is going to make anybody on earth want to trade for this guy, it's a fact. GMs want no part of him, they see him as a problem child who couldn't get along with his coaches (first Larry Brown, who he now says he misses, and the Isiah Thomas, who was at one point his best friend). And this season Marbury has done what has been asked of him, I respect that a ton, especially with how he might have acted and responded a year or two ago. So yes, Marbury has responded well but in terms of behavior probably does deserve some playing time. But just because someone deserves something doesn't make it the best course of action in the end.

DaTPRiNCE · Nov 7, 2008

Our best player Marbury isnt the best thing for the knicks but Duhorn is?

KBlack25 · Nov 7, 2008

DaTPRiNCE said:
Our best player Marbury isnt the best thing for the knicks but Duhorn is?

I said, in the short term Marbury definitely is a good thing for the team. I conceded that fact. In the long term, not so much. And like I said I think NATE, not Duhon should be the guard.

MSGKnickz33 · Nov 7, 2008

KBlack25 said:
One thing I think the Marbury fans haven't answered though, and it's always been my opinion, is that maybe Marbury starting ISN'T the best thing for the Knicks and here's why.

I've said it over and over the Knicks are NOT a championship team with Marbury, even Marbury lovers have to admit this team is a barely in playoffs/barely out of playoffs team this year with Marbury at the point. Marbury also will not be on this team next year whether he plays or doesn't play, I think everyone can also agree on that.

The improvement Marbury gives you actually hurts in the end. The Knicks owe either their 2009 or 2010 Draft Pick to Utah via the Stephon Marbury trade (PHX traded to Utah). The 2009 Pick is top 22 protected, meaning if the Knicks finish with draft picks 1-22, they do NOT have to give up their pick in 2009 BUT if that were to happen they would owe their 2010 Draft Pick either way.

So let's assume the Marbury fans were right, he should play, he made us a better team but not enough to be pick 23 or above. That means we get that pick in 2009. It would probably be around 11-15ish? Then, when Marbury leaves, and the team is worse off (as Marbury lovers state, this team is worse without Marbury) and finish out of the playoffs again but likely with a top 10 draft pick. That top 10 pick goes to Utah, and our hands are tied.

What does this mean for the 2009 Draft in terms of rebuilding (with or without Marbury that's what's happening)? It has to count. It. Has. To. Count. That means this team needs a solid pick this year whether they use it as a trade chip or they can actually get a difference maker in the draft. The Marbury trade is costing a lot of draft picks, let's at least try and be smart about it when we can.

In addition, Marbury is not in this team's future. We've seen Nate Rob flourish off the bench this year (I personally think he should be the starter), we've seen Chandler flourish (see my opinion on Nate Rob) and I think the important thing this year is to get these guys who are going to be around next year used to playing together. If Duhon is going to be the point guard of this team as Mike D'Antoni's chosen one, then he needs minutes.

Does Marbury make the team better this year, in 2008-09? Definitely, I buy that 100%. I think the team right now would be be better off with Steph this year. I'm just not sure his playing time and what's fair to Marbury is what's best for the team. Is he talented? He sure is. He's also untradeable, no amount of playing time is going to make anybody on earth want to trade for this guy, it's a fact. GMs want no part of him, they see him as a problem child who couldn't get along with his coaches (first Larry Brown, who he now says he misses, and the Isiah Thomas, who was at one point his best friend). And this season Marbury has done what has been asked of him, I respect that a ton, especially with how he might have acted and responded a year or two ago. So yes, Marbury has responded well but in terms of behavior probably does deserve some playing time. But just because someone deserves something doesn't make it the best course of action in the end.

I dont know a poster on this site who thinks were a championship with Marbury. I dont even know any posters who would guarantee us a playoff spot with Marbury. And i also dont know any posters who think we should re-sign marbury after this year...even if he was to prove that hes still worthy of the nickname starbury.

I have said before on here that the only reason why it makes sense not to play marbury is because we'll lose more games and get a better lottery pick.

The problem is that Donnie walsh said that every player on this team has a clean slate. He told Marbury to get into great shape over the summer. Marbury did that, hes shown that hes older and more mature now. Through all of this he has yet to speak out against mike d'antoni, even though i wouldnt mind if he did. At the same time i give him credit for doing the right thing, and thats not speakin about the situation.

I understand your argument about the lottery pick that we owe to utah, and that is a reason i havent seen haterburys use yet (im not calling you a haterbury, im referring to other posters on this site). But to me it shouldnt even be an option. Marbury should be playing. You dont bench the best player on the team, or at least one of the best players. Hes getting paid 22 million to do nothin. That makes no sense to me, they should at least get him on the court and playing. This team could get a little more used to winning with him and get rid of that losing mentality.

What kind of a difference would marbury make? I predict we will win 23 to 29 games without him, 33 to 38 games with him. But as knicks fans we have been embarrassed by our team over the last 4 years. We deserve some entertainment...and i think the knicks would be a lot more entertaining with marbury, chandler, nate robinson, and lee all runnin the fast break.

Nate Robinson can look very good one night and then the next night he struggles with his shot, turns the ball over, and doesnt play any defense. The energy is always there but he does struggle sometimes. Duhon does a good job of not turning the ball over but that about it. Hes not much of a scorer, his passing and defense are overrated.

To conclude things, I agree that long term playin marbury aint the best thing for this franchise, but its the right thing to do. The rest of the team needs to experience what its like to be competitive and win more games. D'antoni likes to have small rotations but i think he needs to change that just this year. Nate robinson deserves some minutes...i dont see any problem with playing crawford and duhon 25 minutes each but thats not the way D'antoni does things. He sees crawford as a player who should score between 20 and 24 points. I see him as a 7th man off the bench...Hes not even shooting 40% from the field and his defense is non-existent.

LJ4ptplay · Nov 7, 2008

MSGKnickz33 said:
Crawford made several bad passes to curry. He also made several good passes to curry...Im not denyin that some of marburys passes didnt get picked off but your not giving him enough credit. Marbury was the leader of that team that year, without him we woulda won another 23 games. We were in the playoff race until him, crawford, and lee got hurt at the end of the season.

The first bolded sentence in your post is something you made up. SMH @ haterburys making things up

While i give you some credit for giving credit to marbury, doesnt your 2nd paragraph contridict the 2nd thing i bolded in your 1st paragraph? Basically, your 2nd paragraph is giving marbury credit for being more passive when necessary, being more of a point guard. The 2nd statement that i bolded in your 1st paragraph states that Marbury had nothin to do with Curry almost making the all star team.

It was marburys outside shooting that freed up the inside for curry. Im not trying to say marbury was a great 3 point shooter...but he proved that if leave him open he can hit them. He hit 1.7 3 pointers per game that year, shooting 35.7% and again thats his 3pt%, not his field goal percentage. He was the best 3 point shooter on our team.

Q Rich hit 2 3 pointers per game at 37.6%. So it wasn't just Mebury. I could have made Curry an All-Star that year. Mebury's passes into the post were average at best. And I specifically remember Isiah jumping off the bench and congratulating Mebury for actually completing a decent pass in the post. Sorry, but I didn't make it up. You're the one making sh*t up here. If you want to fantasize about having sex with Mebury, be my guest, whatever floats your boat, but to give Mebury all the credit for almost making Curry an All-Star is just ridiculous. Isiah's system of force feeding him the ball gave Curry almost All-Star numbers. And my previous statements were not contradictory. I give both players credit. You want to give Mebury ALL of the credit as if he set up Curry perfectly to give him those numbers. Which is wrong.

MSGKnickz33 · Nov 7, 2008

LJ4ptplay said:
Q Rich hit 2 3 pointers per game at 37.6%. So it wasn't just Mebury. I could have made Curry an All-Star that year. Mebury's passes into the post were average at best. And I specifically remember Isiah jumping off the bench and congratulating Mebury for actually completing a decent pass in the post. Sorry, but I didn't make it up. You're the one making sh*t up here. If you want to fantasize about having sex with Mebury, be my guest, whatever floats your boat, but to give Mebury all the credit for almost making Curry an All-Star is just ridiculous. Isiah's system of force feeding him the ball gave Curry almost All-Star numbers. And my previous statements were not contradictory. I give both players credit. You want to give Mebury ALL of the credit. Which is wrong.

I agree that Starbury doesnt deserve all the credit, but he deserves some. You were giving him none at first. Q-rich did help spread the floor that year, in the 49 games that he played. But marbury made several nice passes into the post...and he made some bad ones, typical of any player.

Theres 4 things that contributed to Curry almost being an all star

Isiahs system of forcing the ball to him
Richardsons perimeter shooting
Crawfords passing
marburys offense/passing

The most significant of the 4 factors is isiahs system. Can we agree on this?

TunerAddict · Nov 7, 2008

I just find it funny how whenever anyone disagrees with something they get labeled as a hater of someshit...Just because some ppl on here are too childish to understand that their opinion is just that, an opinion. Everyone is entitles to their own.

So **** off MSG, you maggot.

LJ4ptplay · Nov 7, 2008

MSGKnickz33 said:
Theres 4 things that contributed to Curry almost being an all star

Isiahs system of forcing the ball to him
Richardsons perimeter shooting
Crawfords passing
marburys offense/passing

The most significant of the 4 factors is isiahs system. Can we agree on this?

Yes. I can agree to that. I would also have to give Curry some credit too. He did score the 19pts and 7rebs a game. He has talent. It's ashame he's so lazy. The world was given to him and he pissed it away. Well....more like he ate it away.

abcd · Nov 7, 2008

lol @ Mardy Collins, I mean tuneraddict. You need to look up the word opinion in a dictionary. Having an opinion and saying complete bulls#!t are two different things. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, not their own facts. It's sad how you try to attack all of the elites. TRY being the keyword.

TunerAddict · Nov 8, 2008

abcd said:
lol @ Mardy Collins, I mean tuneraddict. You need to look up the word opinion in a dictionary. Having an opinion and saying complete bulls#!t are two different things. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, not their own facts. It's sad how you try to attack all of the elites. TRY being the keyword.

Maybe you should use the dictionary.

Saying Marbury is better than someone is an opinon. Quoting ppg and comparing them is support to you opinion, but does not make it so.

Some is entitled to think that a guy that average 3ppg, 2apg is better than marbury at 20 and 8. It is not fact that marbury is better, it is opinion. You see, there is this thing called reasoning that allows people to make decisions and judements. Thus that person that thinks guy 1 making 3ppg is better because of let say, his defense and his passing ability. Maybe the fact that he isn't the scorer in his system or that he is alienated offensively by the other players. Whatever he wants to say. Its all his opinon and his view. That is opinon. You have NEVER proved shit. Only thing you've ever proved were stats of ppl during a season. You cannot prove someone is a better player, so when you attack someone for their opinon and present your 'facts', you're wrong.

You sure talk about you statistical evidence proving your agrument, but I haven't seen it...

But then again, thats what you 'Starburians" are...A lot of talk

donchris · Nov 8, 2008

TunerAddict said:
I just find it funny how whenever anyone disagrees with something they get labeled as a hater of someshit...Just because some ppl on here are too childish to understand that their opinion is just that, an opinion. Everyone is entitles to their own.

So **** off MSG, you maggot.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one.

Who is this Marbury you speak of? I haven't seen him play. Is he new?

MSGKnickz33 · Nov 8, 2008

TunerAddict said:
I just find it funny how whenever anyone disagrees with something they get labeled as a hater of someshit...Just because some ppl on here are too childish to understand that their opinion is just that, an opinion. Everyone is entitles to their own.

So **** off MSG, you maggot.

:lol:

LJ4ptplay said:
Yes. I can agree to that. I would also have to give Curry some credit too. He did score the 19pts and 7rebs a game. He has talent. It's ashame he's so lazy. The world was given to him and he pissed it away. Well....more like he ate it away.

I agree, Curry did/does have some talent. He did lead the league in points in the paint and every chance opposing teams got they doubled him. If only Curry had more heart...

donchris said:
Opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one.

Who is this Marbury you speak of? I haven't seen him play. Is he new?

Opinions are like assholes. But some assholes are hairy, poop stained, and smelly. Other assholes are cleaner.

In other words, some opinions are so bad that you cant respect them. Other opinions are well thought out and proven by stats. They dont even have to necessarily be proven by stats, dependin on what the argument is about. Haterburys make things up while Team Starbury comes with nothin but facts.

TunerAddict · Nov 8, 2008

MSGKnickz33 said:
:lol:

I agree, Curry did/does have some talent. He did lead the league in points in the paint and every chance opposing teams got they doubled him. If only Curry had more heart...

Opinions are like assholes. But some assholes are hairy, poop stained, and smelly. Other assholes are cleaner.

In other words, some opinions are so bad that you cant respect them. Other opinions are well thought out and proven by stats. They dont even have to necessarily be proven by stats, dependin on what the argument is about. Haterburys make things up while Team Starbury comes with nothin but facts.

You don't understand what the term fact means apparently...I've seen very little hard evidence ever from you guys....

abcd · Nov 8, 2008

TunerAddict said:
You don't understand what the term fact means apparently...I've seen very little hard evidence ever from you guys....

That's because you're a newbie. We provide facts to back up most of our posts. Don't worry, Tuneraddict. In time, you'll become a half decent poster. Just keep practicing. lol

MSGKnickz33 · Nov 8, 2008

Yea tuner maggot...for now take notes. You got me...metro...and abcd, if you carefully read our posts maybe someday there can be 4 elite posters on this site. Until then go back to school, take an english course, and learn how to write maggot :lol:

abcd · Nov 8, 2008

MSGKnickz33 said:
:lol:

I agree, Curry did/does have some talent. He did lead the league in points in the paint and every chance opposing teams got they doubled him. If only Curry had more heart...

Opinions are like assholes. But some assholes are hairy, poop stained, and smelly. Other assholes are cleaner.

In other words, some opinions are so bad that you cant respect them. Other opinions are well thought out and proven by stats. They dont even have to necessarily be proven by stats, dependin on what the argument is about. Haterburys make things up while Team Starbury comes with nothin but facts.

Co-sign :thumbsup:

moneyg · Nov 8, 2008

abcd said:
Co-sign :thumbsup:

curry just needs to get in shape and stop being lazy. if he lost like 25-30 pounds and combined a pump fake move with his curent post moves hed be a beast. i dont quite get curry. he has a chance to opt out of his contract at the end of this season ( which we all hopes he does) and could of gotten a new long term contract if he just was in shape from another team.

no disrepect abcd, but if ur gonna post duhons stats, u should include his steals, apg, rbounds, 3ptsfg and turnovrs.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=742 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=2>

</TD><TD class=gSGSectionTitleStatsGrid width=738>SEASON AVERAGES

</TD><TD width=2>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class="playerStatTable careerAvg" borderColor=#cccccc cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=1><TBODY><TR class=title><TD class=year>Season</TD><TD class=team>Team</TD><TD>G</TD><TD>GS</TD><TD>MPG</TD><TD>FG%</TD><TD>3p%</TD><TD>FT%</TD><TD>OFF</TD><TD>DEF</TD><TD>RPG</TD><TD>APG</TD><TD>SPG</TD><TD>BPG</TD><TD>TO</TD><TD>PF</TD><TD>PPG</TD></TR><TR class=odd><TD class=yr>08-09</TD><TD class=tm>NYK</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>36.6</TD><TD>0.379</TD><TD>0.412</TD><TD>0.667</TD><TD>1.0</TD><TD>3.4</TD><TD>4.4</TD><TD>6.2</TD><TD>1.0</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>1.20</TD><TD>2.00</TD><TD>6.6</TD></TR><TR class=career><TD class=col_1>Career</TD><TD class=col_2></TD><TD>305</TD><TD>164</TD><TD>25.9</TD><TD>0.387</TD><TD>0.357</TD><TD>0.783</TD><TD>0.3</TD><TD>2.1</TD><TD>2.4</TD><TD>4.5</TD><TD>0.9</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>1.37</TD><TD>2.00</TD><TD>6.9</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=742 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=2>

</TD><TD class=gSGSectionTitleStatsGrid width=738>

</TD><TD width=2>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

DaTPRiNCE · Nov 8, 2008

all the stats you highlighted are all stats Marbury could do better and has done better at them throughout his career...he has the stats that Marbury will smoke him in...Marbury would be averaging 20 points right now if he was playing

moneyg · Nov 8, 2008

DaTPRiNCE said:
all the stats you highlighted are all stats Marbury could do better and has done better at them throughout his career...he has the stats that Marbury will smoke him in...Marbury would be averaging 20 points right now if he was playing

"if" marbury was playin right now. but he aint ..... and aint gonna, i think marbury should at least be in the rotation, but it aint happening.

but u have to admit nmarbury would be turning the ball over more and have less rebounds but way more points.

TunerAddict · Nov 8, 2008

MSGKnickz33 said:
Yea tuner maggot...for now take notes. You got me...metro...and abcd, if you carefully read our posts maybe someday there can be 4 elite posters on this site. Until then go back to school, take an english course, and learn how to write maggot :lol:

I think I know the english language. I got a 100 on the NYS English Regents in highschool. Thats the hardest regents to ace. Or maybe the fact that I have 2 completed english course at Syracuse University.

Before you run your mouth about shit, might wanna actually know shit instead of making bold assumptions...

But then again...You just prove how you all claim victory and dominace but never ever support your arguments with facts...

D'Antoni Benched Marbury because...

Starter

The Knicks are Back

Starter

The Gold Mac

Starter

The Gold Mac

Starter

Starter

KnicksonLIN.com

Starter

Next season, keep waiting

The Gold Mac

Starter

KnicksonLIN.com

The Gold Mac

KnicksonLIN.com

Starter

The Knicks are Back

Starter

Starter