We need a Big Man more than anything!

CoolClyde

Moderator
No Bigs in the No-D'antoni Dee

if only we drafted Brooke Lopez instead of No-D'Antoni's godson... hindsight is 20/20..

seems every playoff team has a couple of bigs on the floor at any given time:
LA: Gasol/Bynum/Odum
Denver: Nene/Martin/Anderson
Cleveland: Ilgaukus/Varejao/JoeSmith
Orlando: Howard + no one else needed (tho Martian Gortat is not bad)

However, in the 7 second or less, offense is first and foremost, and No-D'antoni has been missing the basic formula for success from Day 1: defense wins championships. He's lucky he had Amare Stoudamire in Phoenix. Without Amare, Phoenix lost...

How do you even formulate a team without a center is beyond reason... making David Lee the center? If only DLee played his true F position next to a true C... will we see that transpire? and now we're in a position to lose DLee because we can't afford him come Plan 2010?

This Knicks organization is bordering on lame by not committing to having at least a couple of bigs. Jerome James was not the answer by any means, and Eddy Curry will never block more than 10 shots a season...

We should go after Sean Williams and proven shot-blockers as our number one priority... glad Red brought this thread back to life...
 

GetRealistic

Starter
Ty Lawson, Brandon Jennings, Tyreke Evans, Ricky Rubio, Johnny Flynn, and Stephan Curry are leaps and bounds above Nate Robinson and Chris Duhon. If either Kiya or Red could dispense some knowledge on us and let us know who this magical bigman sitting at the 8th spot to be drafted is i'd love to hear it. Because frankly unless Hill (not sold on) or Thabeet slide to the 8th spot there are no bigs worth drafting at the 8th spot. Also Kiya Terrance Williams is nowhere near 8th pick talent. If we traded down to somewhere around 18-24 maybe i could understand your reasoning but if not there is absolutely no reason to even consider Terrance Williams at the 8th spot. I have no problem wtih taking a guard with size at the 8th spot. I would gladly consider Gerald Henderson or Jeff Teague at 8 but for my money i'd rather roll the dice on one of the talented point gaurds in the draft.

The plan is the 2010 plan not the 2009 plan. WE obviously won't be able to obtain everything this offseason because we don't have the cap space. But if we can land a point guard of the future (Duhon is gone after 2009 and Nate is gone as of now) I'm sold on the idea. We can address our point guard and swing positions this season by drafting a young point guard and further devolping Chandler and Gallinari. Then during the season where the expiring contracts of Hughes, Duhon, Richardson, and Harrington become extremely valuable to other teams that have fallen out of the race we can land a PF/C of the future. Once Toronto realizes they have no chance of resigning Chris Bosh they'll be looking to obtain expiring contracts and the Knicks have that.

I completely understand that we need big men, but there simply aren't any quality bigs available. In all honesty there are only 3 PF's that are free agents. Boozer and Milisap aren't typical PF's and Rasheed is too old and is looking to join a contender.

The 2010 plan in my view is in motion and i have no doubts in what Donnie Walsh has done thus far. I also have no doubts Gallinari will be very nice player for years to come. We basically will be adding two lottery picks to a team that despite the record last year wasn't all that awful.

2009 Offseason

1st Draft pick
Gallinari (we will call last year a wash since he rarely played)
Resigning of Lee (unless we somehow pull a miracle and get a big man)
Eddy Curry (I'm sure it won't happen but if he was in shape hes an asset)
MLE (not sure who but we will pick up somebody using the mid level exception. It would most likely be a veteran big man.)

Out
Robinson (unless we get a bigman and in that case Lee is gone)
Wilcox
 

Red

TYPE-A
Get real: If we are planning on trading our expiring contracts (which is almost guarenteed) i.e. Harry, Hughes, Q, or Mobley etc... then why aren't we considering a package w/ our pick and either moving up to get a rookie C (magically) or acquiring a seasoned quality big? Look at it like this: we only have but so many assets (expirings & #8) plus our 2010 plan includes signing 2 max contracts which means we will be selling (trading) why would we wait and take a chance that someone will... 1. want these scrubs 2. Not try and LOWBALL us 3. get injured and become untradeable 4. lower their value bt. now and then ???? Plus to attract smart "superstars" we have to put a quality product on the court and change negative perception by attempting to make the playoffs. As of now we are the laughing stock and anyone we attract will just be looking to get paid and not think seriously about winning! That's our pedigree. So in response it doesn't have to be a rookie but it HAS to be a big man or bust! And if not can you picture next season what will happen when we want (and can afford a star) BUT we settle for someone else b/c we didn't address the "compliments" when we had the chance like drafting Shaved Vertibre Gallo instead of the perfect role player in Lopez. I'm going out on a limb but I bet if we did get Brook he would of been Better than Lee, less expensive and would of allowed us to trade Lee for a true pg before he expired! These moves scream inefficient use of assets and money... sound familiar?
 

GetRealistic

Starter
Get real: If we are planning on trading our expiring contracts (which is almost guarenteed) i.e. Harry, Hughes, Q, or Mobley etc... then why aren't we considering a package w/ our pick and either moving up to get a rookie C (magically) or acquiring a seasoned quality big? Look at it like this: we only have but so many assets (expirings & #8) plus our 2010 plan includes signing 2 max contracts which means we will be selling (trading) why would we wait and take a chance that someone will... 1. want these scrubs 2. Not try and LOWBALL us 3. get injured and become untradeable 4. lower their value bt. now and then ???? Plus to attract smart "superstars" we have to put a quality product on the court and change negative perception by attempting to make the playoffs. As of now we are the laughing stock and anyone we attract will just be looking to get paid and not think seriously about winning! That's our pedigree. So in response it doesn't have to be a rookie but it HAS to be a big man or bust! And if not can you picture next season what will happen when we want (and can afford a star) BUT we settle for someone else b/c we didn't address the "compliments" when we had the chance like drafting Shaved Vertibre Gallo instead of the perfect role player in Lopez. I'm going out on a limb but I bet if we did get Brook he would of been Better than Lee, less expensive and would of allowed us to trade Lee for a true pg before he expired! These moves scream inefficient use of assets and money... sound familiar?

Then like i said... Give me a viable Trade option... Who are these big men that we can optain right now? Even if everyone of those "so called" scrubs gets hurt and doesn't play a single game this upcoming season they still come off the books. There are plenty of big men on the Market in 2010. Plenty of big name big men and plenty of role playing big men. We don't need to obtain anything right this second. I'm going to break the news to everybody WE ARE NOT GOING TO WIN THE TITLE NEXT SEASON. At best we will have a early playoff exit. The goal is to build a team that not only contends for one season but has a 5 year window where we can win a championship.

I'm all for adding a big man but you have yet to give me anything concrete evidence that there is a quality bigmen for us to get. If you want to trade the 8th pick and Lee for Chris Bosh i'm all for it. If you want to trade the 8th pick and other stuff for Amare i'm all for it. But you have to show me that these players are actually on the trade market before you come out with this rant that has no factual background.

I'm sure the Knicks would love to have a big man but right now there is none out there. (Sean Williams is nothing). Also Galllinari will be a better career pro then Brooke Lopez
 

smokes

Huge Member
Not sure why people have given up on the idea of Tyson Chandler, after watching the Hornets get dominated in the post season I'm sure they will be looking to re-shuffle this offseason.

Not a hard guy to match up contracts with and a really solid defensive big if healthy.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
If you support the idea of getting any of these guards i.e. Curry, Jennings, Lawson like "its what the knicks need" over a big than what are you saying? For instance say a rookie comes in and is a star in the making and puts up N8's numbers 17pts 5assts what will happen w/o a big. Wouldn't the results from last yr be the same? Out with 1 in with another? So why are we hyped again for players we could use but don't need? What -it will be a step in the right direction? So let's ignore our real needs? C'mon either trade the pick or speak on what big fa's the knicks are looking to acquire but don't gas us w/ the guards being the answer to our problems. I could easily see a rookie guard adding to our problems as helping.


Did u notice all the 10 day contracts that Walsh had come in at the end of the season....all were bigmen, centers mostly.
When did u think it dawn on Walsh that we needed a Bigman?

I asked that b/c we needed another bigman when we had Zach and Lee in the rotation at the start of the season...

Red....the picture was vivid the day Donnie Walsh mention the 2010 Plan (lowering the salary cap).
If u and others did not understand the meaning last year of the 2010 plan u will in the (management and Headcoach) consecutive TANKING season.
I recall myself thinking did Donnie Walsh mention this 2010 plan while a Pacer to the Indiana Pacers owner and G.M. Larry Bird? if so their decision and advice to Donnie Walsh was to look for employment else where.
 

dave2138

Rotation player
The 2010 plan was a need though. It will be for the first time the knicks can be in a position to get valuable players that other teams will be competing with them for. In the recent past, I feel like all the additions they have made were players other teams were dying to get rid of. I'll take 2 years of tanking if it means a complete turnaround on how this team is run.

Having no draft pick next year does not mean they should go out and make trades to sacrifice the 2010 plan just to be competitive this year.

I don't care if Utah gets the 1st pick or the 30th pick in the 2010 draft, it doesn't affect our future either way.

Only get a big man this year if its for 1 year a contract and doesn't involve giving up young talent. I think Camby is a definite possibility.
 

GetRealistic

Starter
The 2010 plan was a need though. It will be for the first time the knicks can be in a position to get valuable players that other teams will be competing with them for. In the recent past, I feel like all the additions they have made were players other teams were dying to get rid of. I'll take 2 years of tanking if it means a complete turnaround on how this team is run.

Having no draft pick next year does not mean they should go out and make trades to sacrifice the 2010 plan just to be competitive this year.

I don't care if Utah gets the 1st pick or the 30th pick in the 2010 draft, it doesn't affect our future either way.

Only get a big man this year if its for 1 year a contract and doesn't involve giving up young talent. I think Camby is a definite possibility.


Excellent Post
 

Red

TYPE-A
I felt a need for a big for immediate impact next season. But now I guess our "rebuilding" includes last year til summer 2010 and thus I guess we could get someone by then so no rush. I just can't stand watching this garbage sometimes. That said here's my projected line up... Duhon/rookie (pg) - Chandler/rookie (sg) - Gallo (sf) - Harrington (pf) - Curry (c) bench: Hughes, N8, Wilcox, Jeffries **Sign & Trade: Lee for a throw away player & 1st round pick in 2010???
 

ANU

Starter
the thing about lee is, he's skilled, but he's such a herb on defense man; but lee would be a great guy for bron to play with.rebounds, some post offense, if this team had someone at c like howard(lol) the frontline would be ill man.
 

Red

TYPE-A
Thanks Walsh! My projected line up as of today (with Grant Hill) is: Duhon-Chandler-G.Hill-Lee-Darko (with Hill and Darko being an upgrade over Q-brick and Jeffries) douglas-N8-Gallo-Harrington-jeffries. Unfornately Hill, Hughes and Curry will not see much time in my estimation. what do you guys think. I realized there is a need for a sf because harrington is a 4 in Dantonis system. what do you guys think?
 
Excuse me as I have no idea what I'm talking about so I'm just asking what might be considered stupid questions. With that in mind, why was Hill drafted if not to play? He is more mature than most in the draft, he is primarily defensive and has stamina to burn. I'm not saying he will start straight away but in the coming years he has the build, presence and defensive ability to do a job at C if we are looking to pick up the likes of LeBron and I can't see anything but happening.

I think you might see more of him than you think but they what do I know?
 

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
I think we'll see a lot out of Jordan Hill. He's a big man who plays defense and has a good mid range jumper. Frankly the fact of the matter is that our team is so bad right now he's probably going to be the best player on it by 2010 (pre-FA signings anyway)
 

Red

TYPE-A
Jordan Hill wasn't exactly who I had in mind. Still need a big man though- almost a year later. To me this is actually a reflection on D. Lee's poor defense, as if he could contribute and be a factor on D- we wouldn't need a big as much or wouldn't be forced to play Jeffries for defense. But I guess this is a blessing since maybe JJ can be traded now.
 
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