What if Rubio refused to workout for any team other than The Knicks could we get him?

jpz17

Starter
my answer i what if?? what if?? we can be sitting here playing the "what if" game but we must realize we will not be a championship team for at least 4 years. The knicks suck, we have some a long way though and I applaud donnie and mike but its just impossible to win nowadays.
 

New New York

Quiet Storm
Alright now that we have established the Rubio is the real deal, I and others have spoke of the Kid's IQ and how long he has been a Pro and I think we can all see the potential in him, lets answer the initial question.....

Is there any scenerio at which he slips to 8th (ie. workout refusals) or is moving up the only shot we have at him?
 

JayJ44

Starter
Alright now that we have established the Rubio is the real deal, I and others have spoke of the Kid's IQ and how long he has been a Pro and I think we can all see the potential in him, lets answer the initial question.....

Is there any scenerio at which he slips to 8th (ie. workout refusals) or is moving up the only shot we have at him?

I heard he has a multimillion dollar buyout clause in his contract with his euro league team. Maybe because of the economy some teams wouldn't want to pay that? Still a long shot. I don't see 8 teams passing up on him because of money.
 

OGKnickfan

Enlightened
By the way, I have Polish friends and can speak it. It doesn't make me an expert on kielbasa.

Do you really believe that I have to read spanish news papers and talk to spanish people that watch the games to judge talent? God, how did we ever do it before? We must have depended on people from the country of origin for their analysis. Gasol is very good, not great. Kobe makes all his teammates better.

The fact you would take Thabeet after Griffin says all I need to know about your bball sense.


Speaking Spanish, as well as Italian, allows me, as it could you, if you were able to speak one of these, to communicate with followers of various foreign leagues, so as to find out what their (more informed) take on a player happens to be, since they're going to know more about league dynamics and players than someone who watches mostly NBA games. It also allows me to understand what is being said, about performances, player trends, etc., when watching games, which is usually valuable.

You compared that to your knowledge of Polish sausage, and that's just outlandish and ludicrous. Surely, the opinions of Spaniards, in newspapers, other media and on the web, are more important than yours, which, from what you've said, are based on youtube mixes. I've actually watched Rubio play in the ACB, on numerous occasions, not just on youtube.

As for Gasol, I don't even know why you're bringing the guy up, but he's clearly a great player, not just a good one, which he has proven, time and again, even before ever playing with Kobe: leading Spain to an Olympic silver medal, as well as a gold medal in the world championships, winning rookie of year, making two all-star appearances, winning FIBA MVP in '06, leading a crappy team: the Griz, to 50 wins and to their three consecutive, and only ever, playoff appearances, and giving Kobe the help he needed to make the Lakers a contender, last year and this year, after years of Laker underachievement: the math is there, Lakers, before Gasol, were perennial first round victims. After Gasol, they're contenders.

Furthermore, all of the NBA analysts, who talked about the Jazz-Lakers series, today, said, as they have for a while, that he's a "superstar," a "great player," and Magic Johnson, when asked why he was "such a great" player, specifically said that he "possibly has the highest basketball IQ in the NBA" and has the "best feel for the game on the Lakers." I'll take his, and their, opinion on Gasol, over your uninformed opinion. You think like Isiah, instead of like me, which is why we didn't make a move for Gasol, as we should have, Isiah probably doubted this guy, who would have finally made us legit. And, later, we failed to move to acquire Lopez, in part as the result of Isiah's recommendation. You actually support that, because you love Gallinari. In short, I think you're the last type of mind that should be talking or listened to, when it comes to male sports.

Gasol averages 18.9 ppg, 9.7 rebounds, 56% from the field, 3.5 Assists, 1 block per game and has 24.93 EFF: one of the highest EFFs in the league. His career numbers are basically the same, despite most of his career having taken place in Memphis. He's definitely a top five power forward/center.

And if Kobe is making him better, which is untrue: his career numbers are the same as his current ones, after 8 years in the league, then Kobe should have made his team better, for those three losing seasons where he was without him. He should have turned Luke Walton into Gasol. He didn't, because he couldn't. But I suppose you think David Lee's a great player. Please, your insight is a joke, save it for someone ignorant to break down to. I actually have real knowledge of college, NBA and international basketball, from actually watching games intelligently.

As for Blake Griffin, every reputable source has him projected at number 1. No one has Thabeet as the number one pick, because he lacks the offensive skills that Griffin holds. So... Alf, I think your analysis speaks for itself, as faulty and flamish. Get off my magic stick. >FLICK<
 
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OGKnickfan

Enlightened
By the way, I have Polish friends and can speak it. It doesn't make me an expert on kielbasa.

Do you really believe that I have to read spanish news papers and talk to spanish people that watch the games to judge talent? God, how did we ever do it before? We must have depended on people from the country of origin for their analysis. Gasol is very good, not great. Kobe makes all his teammates better.

The fact you would take Thabeet after Griffin says all I need to know about your bball sense.


Speaking Spanish, as well as Italian, allows me, as it could you, if you were able to speak one of these, to communicate with followers of various foreign leagues, so as to find out what their (more informed) take on a player happens to be, since they're going to know more about league dynamics and players than someone who watches mostly NBA games. It also allows me to understand what is being said, about performances, player trends, etc., when watching games, which is usually valuable.

You compared that to your knowledge of Polish sausage, and that's just outlandish and ludicrous. Surely, the opinions of Spaniards, in newspapers, other media and on the web, are more important than yours, which, from what you've said, are based on youtube mixes. I've actually watched Rubio play in the ACB, on numerous occasions, not just on youtube.

As for Gasol, I don't even know why you're bringing the guy up, but he's clearly a great player, not just a good one, which he has proven, time and again, even before ever playing with Kobe: leading Spain to an Olympic silver medal, as well as a gold medal in the world championships, winning rookie of year, making two all-star appearances, winning FIBA MVP in '06, leading a crappy team: the Griz, to 50 wins and to their three consecutive, and only ever, playoff appearances, and giving Kobe the help he needed to make the Lakers a contender, last year and this year, after years of Laker underachievement: the math is there, Lakers, before Gasol, were perennial first round victims. After Gasol, they're contenders.

Furthermore, all of the NBA analysts, who talked about the Jazz-Lakers series, today, said, as they have for a while, that he's a "superstar," a "great player," and Magic Johnson, when asked why he was "such a great" player, specifically said that he "possibly has the highest basketball IQ in the NBA" and has the "best feel for the game on the Lakers." I'll take his, and their, opinion on Gasol, over your uninformed opinion. You think like Isiah, instead of like me, which is why we didn't make a move for Gasol, as we should have, Isiah probably doubted this guy, who would have finally made us legit. And, later, we failed to move to acquire Lopez, in part as the result of Isiah's recommendation. You actually support that, because you love Gallinari. In short, I think you're the last type of mind that should be talking or listened to, when it comes to male sports.

Gasol currently averages 18.9 ppg, 9.7 rebounds, 56% from the field, 3.5 Assists, 1 block per game and has 24.93 EFF: one of the highest EFFs in the league. Kobe, himself, said that Gasol is one of the greatest in the world, same as Odom, the very blunt Phil Jackson, Derek Fisher and Vujacic. They all said, upon acquiring him, that people did not know just how good he is. His career numbers are basically the same, despite most of his career having taken place in Memphis. He's definitely a top five power forward/center.

And if Kobe is making him better, which is untrue: his career numbers are the same as his current ones, after 8 years in the league, then Kobe should have made his team better, for those three losing seasons where he was without him. He should have turned Luke Walton into Gasol. He didn't, because he couldn't. But I suppose you think David Lee's a great player. Please, your insight is a joke, save it for someone ignorant to break down to. I actually have real knowledge of college, NBA and international basketball, from actually watching games intelligently.

As for Blake Griffin, every reputable source has him projected at number 1. No one has Thabeet as the number one pick, because he lacks the offensive skills that Griffin holds. So... Alf, I think your analysis speaks for itself, as faulty and flamish. Get off my magic stick. >FLICK<
 

metrocard

Legend
Whoa whoa whoa...Gasol isn't great?

If he isn't great...who is.

I'd take Gasol over guys like Amare and Bosh any time of the day.

Gasol plays within the team, if he wanted to he could average 25 ppg with ease. Instead he makes the extra pass that is uncreditted...his basketball awareness is IMMENSE and is the reason why the Lakers went from a 9th seed team to the best team in the NBA.

Kobe can't do it without Gasol. A lot of people don't hear to that, but its the truth.

People could brag about how far Kobe will get without Shaq, but they forget Gasol is playing that C position, not as dominant as Shaq, but in terms of team orientation and chemistry, just as good.
 

metrocard

Legend
yo OG, if you're a fan of Gasol...why not a fan of Rubio?

Gasol was a skinny SF from Europe when he was a prospect in the draft.
7"1, 220 lbs
I repeat
7"1, 220 lbs from Barcelona.

He transformed his game into an elite center that can do it all.

Rubio has had a superior resume in comparision with Gasol.

Adding weight to his frame will take time, but not a long time. Its a slow process...Rubio shouldn't worry about that right NOW...he did the right thing and let his body grow and develop...weight training young teens is a problem that a lot of American teens do...which is why there are so many injuries in high school sports, way too much overtraining...less focus on the skill.
 

knickzrulezH20

Sexy Stud
Speaking Spanish, as well as Italian, allows me, as it could you, if you were able to speak one of these, to communicate with followers of various foreign leagues, so as to find out what their (more informed) take on a player happens to be, since they're going to know more about league dynamics and players than someone who watches mostly NBA games. It also allows me to understand what is being said, about performances, player trends, etc., when watching games, which is usually valuable.

You compared that to your knowledge of Polish sausage, and that's just outlandish and ludicrous. Surely, the opinions of Spaniards, in newspapers, other media and on the web, are more important than yours, which, from what you've said, are based on youtube mixes. I've actually watched Rubio play in the ACB, on numerous occasions, not just on youtube.

As for Gasol, I don't even know why you're bringing the guy up, but he's clearly a great player, not just a good one, which he has proven, time and again, even before ever playing with Kobe: leading Spain to an Olympic silver medal, as well as a gold medal in the world championships, winning rookie of year, making two all-star appearances, winning FIBA MVP in '06, leading a crappy team: the Griz, to 50 wins and to their three consecutive, and only ever, playoff appearances, and giving Kobe the help he needed to make the Lakers a contender, last year and this year, after years of Laker underachievement: the math is there, Lakers, before Gasol, were perennial first round victims. After Gasol, they're contenders.

Furthermore, all of the NBA analysts, who talked about the Jazz-Lakers series, today, said, as they have for a while, that he's a "superstar," a "great player," and Magic Johnson, when asked why he was "such a great" player, specifically said that he "possibly has the highest basketball IQ in the NBA" and has the "best feel for the game on the Lakers." I'll take his, and their, opinion on Gasol, over your uninformed opinion. You think like Isiah, instead of like me, which is why we didn't make a move for Gasol, as we should have, Isiah probably doubted this guy, who would have finally made us legit. And, later, we failed to move to acquire Lopez, in part as the result of Isiah's recommendation. You actually support that, because you love Gallinari. In short, I think you're the last type of mind that should be talking or listened to, when it comes to male sports.

Gasol currently averages 18.9 ppg, 9.7 rebounds, 56% from the field, 3.5 Assists, 1 block per game and has 24.93 EFF: one of the highest EFFs in the league. Kobe, himself, said that Gasol is one of the greatest in the world, same as Odom, the very blunt Phil Jackson, Derek Fisher and Vujacic. They all said, upon acquiring him, that people did not know just how good he is. His career numbers are basically the same, despite most of his career having taken place in Memphis. He's definitely a top five power forward/center.

And if Kobe is making him better, which is untrue: his career numbers are the same as his current ones, after 8 years in the league, then Kobe should have made his team better, for those three losing seasons where he was without him. He should have turned Luke Walton into Gasol. He didn't, because he couldn't. But I suppose you think David Lee's a great player. Please, your insight is a joke, save it for someone ignorant to break down to. I actually have real knowledge of college, NBA and international basketball, from actually watching games intelligently.

As for Blake Griffin, every reputable source has him projected at number 1. No one has Thabeet as the number one pick, because he lacks the offensive skills that Griffin holds. So... Alf, I think your analysis speaks for itself, as faulty and flamish. Get off my magic stick. >FLICK<


Gasol is clearly a great player, and a superstar who finally is where he belongs on a great team. no denying his immensly high bball IQ, as seen in how fast he grasped phil jackson's tricky triangle offense to propel a decent lakers team into greatness. and i agree with you on ur other point, blake griffen is jsut a cant-miss prospect in my opinion. his ceiling is so much higher than thabeet
 

metrocard

Legend
Questions about Griffin.

Can he be an effective defender/make his teammates better?

If he can't....all he is = athletic zach randolph without the jumper.
 

JayJ44

Starter
Since we're on the subject, Pau's brother Marc is also going to be a very good player. Not as good as Pau, but he's a little bigger and stronger. They played well together in the Olympics.
 

knickzrulezH20

Sexy Stud
Questions about Griffin.

Can he be an effective defender/make his teammates better?

If he can't....all he is = athletic zach randolph without the jumper.

this is all true, but their are far more questions about thabeet making griffen the far more superior prospect. and i can guarentee he'll his career will be beta than z'bo lol
 

JayJ44

Starter
Questions about Griffin.

Can he be an effective defender/make his teammates better?

If he can't....all he is = athletic zach randolph without the jumper.

I think he can be a good defensive player. He has a very high work ethic, and he's so athletic and strong he should be a good defender. He's also very quick off his feet, so he should be an effective shot blocker.

What worries me about him is his knees. He's already had problems with them, I hope it's not a recurring problem in his career.
 

dave2138

Rotation player
I would never offer that much. You can't gut the team even for Rubio. #8 and a re-signed Lee or Nate should be enough. Why would those teams deal him? What if he says he won't ever play for them or if he says he is going to walk as soon as his contract is up? He would only be 21-22 years old and an unrestricted FA. They could risk getting nothing back. Euro players can put their name in the draft 3 times and withdraw it before they can't do it anymore. He holds a lot of cards because of his age. Why would a team draft a guy they wouldn't see for a few years if ever? A good team could risk it. A rebuilding team? Can't afford to do it. They might pick him to trade him....I would if I were them.


I think that is all made up that Rubio won't go to a team like Sacramento or Oklahoma. He hasn't proved anything, and I'm sure would be happy with any team that gives him playing time.

Clippers/Wizards not picking Rubio because of Davis/Arenas. Both are injury prone, and did nothing to help their teams be competitive this season. I'm sure the Clippers would rather trade Baron Davis to the Knicks for Eddy Curry straight up and pick Rubio, rather than trading Rubio for David Lee/Wilson Chandler + #8 pick.

For the 20 games that Arenas will play a year, they can move him over to SG and let Rubio be their PG.

The point is, we are all saying what an amazing player Rubio will be..and everyone around the league agrees with you guys. Whoever has the #2 pick won't pass up on the opportunity to take him. If they do decide he is not worth it, they will definitely get more value than Wilson Chandler and the #8 pick.

The statement that why would a shitty team pick Rubio when they know he will leave in a few years. You don't know what will happen..thats a terrible reason to pass up on a top talent. This is like Cleveland passing up on Lebron James, because they didn't think he would resign with them after their contract is up.
 

OGKnickfan

Enlightened
yo OG, if you're a fan of Gasol...why not a fan of Rubio?

Gasol was a skinny SF from Europe when he was a prospect in the draft.
7"1, 220 lbs
I repeat
7"1, 220 lbs from Barcelona.

He transformed his game into an elite center that can do it all.

Rubio has had a superior resume in comparision with Gasol.

Adding weight to his frame will take time, but not a long time. Its a slow process...Rubio shouldn't worry about that right NOW...he did the right thing and let his body grow and develop...weight training young teens is a problem that a lot of American teens do...which is why there are so many injuries in high school sports, way too much overtraining...less focus on the skill.

You might be right. I'm humble enough to admit that Rubio might turn out to be a great player. As of now, I just don't see it. I've watched him play, as I've said for months now, he's definitely got swagger and confidence. You can see flashes of something special, when he plays. But, at the same time, his legs are weak: his layups (his main offensive weapon) are made through penetration against very poor quality interior D, guys who are easy to score on. He also lacks a consistent jumper, and I question whether his passes and dribbles will do well in the NBA.

Like I said in my other post, most Spanish fans want him to remain in the ACB for a couple of more years. Here's a link to Yahoo Espana, where there are some differing opinions of Spanish fans.

http://es.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080824045453AAyrpFv


Questions about Griffin.

Can he be an effective defender/make his teammates better?

If he can't....all he is = athletic zach randolph without the jumper.

Blake is very powerfully built, think Dwight Howard. He's also got a tremendous vertical leap and a number of moves in the paint. I think he'll be like a Boozer on steroids, with actual clutch and heart.

Since we're on the subject, Pau's brother Marc is also going to be a very good player. Not as good as Pau, but he's a little bigger and stronger. They played well together in the Olympics.

I'd like to see Marc lose some weight, then he might turn the corner. Rudy Gay took a swipe at Pau and said that Marc was not soft (a misconception, since it was Farmar and Vujacic's poor choices that cost them the title), unlike Pau. It's clear, though, that Marc is not on the same level, as you pointed out.

Gasol is clearly a great player, and a superstar who finally is where he belongs on a great team. no denying his immensly high bball IQ, as seen in how fast he grasped phil jackson's tricky triangle offense to propel a decent lakers team into greatness. and i agree with you on ur other point, blake griffen is jsut a cant-miss prospect in my opinion. his ceiling is so much higher than thabeet

True, true. The thing people forget is that he carried some true bums: Battier, Mike Miller, Tsakalidas, old Eddie Jones, into the post season. He's obviously capable of leading a team, given a minimal amount of talent. Had Isiah pulled the trigger, instead of calling Curry untouchable, we would have had a contender, in my opinion.

I really think that Zach, Pau, Crawford and Marbury would have been a juggernaut lineup: they each would make up for one another's weaknesses, and I believe Craw would have been his version of Ewing's Starks. Why? Because Pau is like a lesser version of Ewing, the essential component being the ability to control the pace and rhythm of a game. Crawford, Zach and Marbury are better than Bobby Jack, Tsakalidas and Battier, and Mike Miller. Ewing led some guys that weren't all that to contention for a title. I think Pau, with a little more than the aforementioned players, would have done the same.
 

OGKnickfan

Enlightened
Whoa whoa whoa...Gasol isn't great?

If he isn't great...who is.

I'd take Gasol over guys like Amare and Bosh any time of the day.

Gasol plays within the team, if he wanted to he could average 25 ppg with ease. Instead he makes the extra pass that is uncreditted...his basketball awareness is IMMENSE and is the reason why the Lakers went from a 9th seed team to the best team in the NBA.

Kobe can't do it without Gasol. A lot of people don't hear to that, but its the truth.

People could brag about how far Kobe will get without Shaq, but they forget Gasol is playing that C position, not as dominant as Shaq, but in terms of team orientation and chemistry, just as good.

This is why forums like these are important, because fans that are truly intelligent and analytical need to be able to counter the BS spread by media people who don't really even watch basketball, yet are given more of a voice than we are. Unfortunately too many members of this forum, and others, serve as propaganda whores for the media, instead of speaking the truth.

I mean, do you really think Jill Martin and Jemele Hill watch basketball? And, if you notice, once someone says something in the media, all of the sports people, excepting the truly knowledgeable ones, repeat the same junk. It's sad. I remember people in the media constantly saying that the Knicks were better without Patrick Ewing. Only media guy to say that wasn't true was Mark Jackson.

In the words of Oscar Wilde, "All the world's a stage, but the parts are poorly cast."

EDIT: I've been, by the way, a fan of Gasol's (he's actually my favorite player) since about '04. I saw how much heart and intelligence he had, just as much as Ewing did: guy boxes out, posts up, passes, runs the floor, sets screens, plays great help D. In my opinion, the guy is one of the best impact players in the game. I'm glad he's finally being recognized. Until recently, people wouldn't know who I was talking about, when I would mention him.
 
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JayJ44

Starter
I don't know where this notion of Pau Gasol being soft came from. He's one of the best scoring big men in the NBA, he's underrated defensively, and he's an excellent rebounder. He was extremely underrated most of his career, until he got traded to the Lakers.
 

Blas

Benchwarmer
I do not know a thing about Rubio besides media and the little youtube vidoes out there of him. Could anyone post specific examples as to why he is so great/bust?

I am really curious.

He has great Bball IQ, that is wonderful, but how?
 

metrocard

Legend
Griffin is the most elite specimen in terms of athletic ability we've seen since Dwight Howard...he's a nightmare in matchups one on one.

His work ethic is off the charts.

The reason why I question his defense because of his 1.2 blocks per game.
His timing isn't really good.

So his commitment to playing defense and defensive fundamentals really hinder him from being the ready to go franchise big men, he still has a lot of growing to do.

+ if he improves his range, we're talking about a top 5 big man in the NBA right away, especially with how weak the PF's are in the NBA with Duncan/Garnett/O'Neal on the decline.

I feel once Griffin learns how to make his teammates better (Gasol, Garnett, etc), thats when he'll make a real impact.

Maybe I'm scouting him poorly, he could be a good at challenging shots.

Other than that, Dwight Howard will now have trouble defending his rebounding title. I don't think I've seen a rebounder of Griffin's caliber in a long time.

Come on guys...don't give up hope.
If Chicago got the number 1 pick last year why can't we?
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Rubio is easily the best PG in the draft. He is athletic, IQ is off the charts, has the court vision of an eagle and has great size at that position. I think we can easily trade up using Chandler as as an incentive along with our draft pick. As much as I like Chandler he needs to go if a trade can get us Rubio.
 
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