How to shed 10 million w out trading Curry/ not having a pick next year a good thing?

New New York

Quiet Storm
Looks like Isiah made have done us a bit of a favor in trading our pick to Utah. Lottery picks make anywhere from 2 to 5 million dollars their rookie season. If the Knicks were to have a pick in the draft this year that money would be on the books July 1st, thus counting against our cap. 2 million makes a world of a difference if the NBA cap comes in at the rock bottom figure of 50 million.

Well like they say, "Dumb luck, is better than no luck at all"


Ok, so here is how we shed 10 million without having to trade Curry. It has to happen in this order


1.Trade Jefferies: ok so this is a no-brainer, and still thought to be a long shot. But, if Jared Jefferies can put up decent numbers (6 pts 4 rebs 2 ast 1 stl) then he could be the type of player off the bench an already good team would want. Washington,The Spurs,The Celtics and The Nuggets are all teams that could make use of him off the bench and have no intentions on being players in the 2010 FA market thus getting his two year deal for an expiring contract is a fair deal to them.

2. (not going to go over well) Trade either Wilson or Danillo: The bottom line is that these two players can not co-exist. They occupy the same position and while Danillo can slide to the PF just like Wilson can play some SG, neither player should be counted on in those position full-time. I would gladly trade either for Rubio who's contract would not effect our cap into 2012, plus Rubio would make NY a desirable place to be at. Minny needs a SF for the future -we got two- we need a PG for the future-they got 3- lets make a deal! Of course we could use one of these two players to get a team to take Jefferies in the likely event Jefferies plays as good as he always has as a Knick

Trading Danillo after/with Jefferies would actually cut 10.1 million in off the books in its self bringing us to 16 million and trading Wilson after/with Jefferies would save us 8.9 million bring us down to 18.2 million.

3. Buyout Curry: Trading this guy is looking like mission impossible and if he is not traded by draft night next year we just buy him out the next day for 9.6 million. That would free up 1.5 million for us

so lets look at the numbers

Jefferies traded for expiring deal = 6.8

Trading Wilson= 2.1

Curry Buyout= 1.5

That would give us 10.4 million with a 17 million dollars on the books. Now the cap at the absolute worst comes in at 50 million then we now have 33 million to spend.

Best case the cap comes in at 55 million with us making these moves and we have 38 million! That allows for us to retain Lee and Nate's bird rights plus get one Max FA and another All Star calliber player
 

Trin_Starr

Starter
lol - you're right...it's not going to go over well :)
I think Gallo is the only untouchable on the knicks right now.
Chandler can be traded but I highly doubt it will be to help move Jefferies contract....most likely it will be for Curry's

If Jefferies 3 of 4 shooting from downtown was no fluke in the last preseason game, I can see him being easily traded for an expiring if he keeps that up.


Unless of course, say Houston realizes that McGrady's comeback is well like all the others and he can't play this season...and with Yao out with the foot fracture...
Right now they have 6'6 Hayes playing center, with no backup C and that's not going to cut it. Atleast if Curry gets back in decent shape by november, they would have a servicable bigman, plus a backup in Jefferies and then there's nate and chandler to pick up the scoring load...since mcgrady and yao are out.
And well $3mil in cash to sweeten the deal.

I'd hate to lose chandler, but there's a better SF that we're trying to catch next summer.

McGrady = $23.2 mil

for

Curry = $10.5 mil
Jefferies = $6.5 mil
Nate = $4 mil
Chandler = $1.2 mil
Cash = $3 mil
Total = $25.2 mil

That would be a HUGE amount of capspace next summer for 2 max free agents and the ability to resign Lee and get some other decent fill in pieces to round out the roster...

A knicks fan can dream right! lol
 
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New New York

Quiet Storm
lol - you're right...it's not going to go over well :)
I think Gallo is the only untouchable on the knicks right now.
Chandler can be traded but I highly doubt it will be to help move Jefferies contract....most likely it will be for Curry's

If Jefferies 3 of 4 shooting from downtown was no fluke in the last preseason game, I can see him being easily traded for an expiring if he keeps that up.


Unless of course, say Houston realizes that McGrady's comeback is well like all the others and he can't play this season...and with Yao out with the foot fracture...
Right now they have 6'6 Hayes playing center, with no backup C and that's not going to cut it. Atleast if Curry gets back in decent shape by november, they would have a servicable bigman, plus a backup in Jefferies and then there's nate and chandler to pick up the scoring load...since mcgrady and yao are out.
And well $3mil in cash to sweeten the deal.

I'd hate to lose chandler, but there's a better SF that we're trying to catch next summer.

McGrady = $23.2 mil

for

Curry = $10.5 mil
Jefferies = $6.5 mil
Nate = $4 mil
Chandler = $1.2 mil
Cash = $3 mil
Total = $25.2 mil

That would be a HUGE amount of capspace next summer for 2 max free agents and the ability to resign Lee and get some other decent fill in pieces to round out the roster...

A knicks fan can dream right! lol


I know what you mean about Gallo's untouchable status, but like I said, can he and Chandler co-exist? Danillo is probably the better player of the two, but cap is the name of the game now! Shedding a really good player to allow us the ability to go after two max FA's might be worth it.... maybe? Plus I am suggesting trading him to Minny for Rubio which fills a void we have and would give us an equally good young player.

I like your Houston trade, but it requires way too much from Eddy Curry, plus Houston also is looking to be players in the 2010 FA market, so adding Curry hurts that. I like the idea tho

I think we can pawn Jefferies off on Washington for Mike James. James means nothing to them, so losing him and getting a player they could use would be a win win.
 

knicksfancris

Benchwarmer
look people the plan is not only 2010 u guys a ****ing dumb for thinking that we are only getting one player then in 2011 we are getting antoher player 2011 is good also u have a lot of free agents that a very good like chris paul and carmelo anthony. the knicks are not going to trade their future talents
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
look people the plan is not only 2010 u guys a ****ing dumb for thinking that we are only getting one player then in 2011 we are getting antoher player 2011 is good also u have a lot of free agents that a very good like chris paul and carmelo anthony. the knicks are not going to trade their future talents

How are we going to get another max player in 2011?

After we get a max player in 2010 we will only have $11 mil left over. $8 mil to Lee then leaves us with only $3 mil and a roster of 8 players (Curry, Jeffries, Gallo, Chandler, Hill, Douglas, Lee and a max player). Unless we try to fill the minimum of 13 players on a roster with only 1 year contracts again, every penny spent on another long term deal will eat into 2011's cap space. Curry's and Jeffries' contracts equal about 1 max contract.

With the way the cap is set up, I think it's impossible for any team to sign 2 max stars. The only way I can see a team having 2 max stars is by drafting one first and then signing another. Or pulling off some miracle trade with expiring contracts.
 

New New York

Quiet Storm
look people the plan is not only 2010 u guys a ****ing dumb for thinking that we are only getting one player then in 2011 we are getting antoher player 2011 is good also u have a lot of free agents that a very good like chris paul and carmelo anthony. the knicks are not going to trade their future talents


What the hell are you talking about?
 

portega1968

El Cacique
Chandler will be restricted next year also, which factors into trading him now.

In sum, if we cant get rid of Curry through a trade, we must get rid of Jeffries even if it costs us Chandler... I'm in. Being able to go after two top players next summer is huge. And Curry finally off the books by 2011 will be so sweet (unless we're lucky and the lack of playing time motivates him to not exercise his option next summer).
 

New New York

Quiet Storm
doesnt curry contract ends in 2011 and jamal jeffries to

"Jamal Jefferies"?, are you one of those guys who just kinda follows a team and pretends like they know what is going on? LOL just playin with you

Look to answer the question I think you are trying to ask, yes Curry and JARED Jeffereries' contracts both expire in 2011

Ok now tell me what your point is about this fact.
 

New New York

Quiet Storm
Chandler will be restricted next year also, which factors into trading him now.

In sum, if we cant get rid of Curry through a trade, we must get rid of Jeffries even if it costs us Chandler... I'm in. Being able to go after two top players next summer is huge. And Curry finally off the books by 2011 will be so sweet (unless we're lucky and the lack of playing time motivates him to not exercise his option next summer).


I agree, now consider this.... Lets say we do indeed move Jefferies off the books and what if mid way thru the season Danillo's back problems begin again.....if you are Walsh do you consider not picking up the team option on him for the sake of being able to afford two max FA's? Again if the cap comes in at 55 million that would give us 39 million to play with.


Also someone explain to me how "Bird Rights" work, I know it allows a team to go over the cap to re sign a player, but doesnt it require that the team pay X amount of dollars per player to be able to do so? If so how much per player?
 
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LJ4ptplay

Starter
Also someone explain to me how "Bird Rights" work, I know it allows a team to go over the cap to re sign a player, but doesnt it require that the team pay X amount of dollars per player to be able to do so? If so how much per player?

In order to retain a player's Bird Rights it costs 1.5 times the player's final year salary. For example, Lee is making $7 mil this year. It will cost the Knicks $10.5 mil against the cap space to retain his Bird Rights.

So essentially we can't afford to retain Lee's Bird Rights. He will be an unrestricted free agent next year and we can only afford to pay him with the remaining cap space, presumably after we sign a max free agent.

Bird Rights were established so teams over the cap could retain their star players. It doesn't really work in favor for a team under the cap and over half of it's roster are free agents (e.g. the Knicks).
 

New New York

Quiet Storm
In order to retain a player's Bird Rights it costs 1.5 times the player's final year salary. For example, Lee is making $7 mil this year. It will cost the Knicks $10.5 mil against the cap space to retain his Bird Rights.

So essentially we can't afford to retain Lee's Bird Rights. He will be an unrestricted free agent next year and we can only afford to pay him with the remaining cap space, presumably after we sign a max free agent.

Bird Rights were established so teams over the cap could retain their star players. It doesn't really work in favor for a team under the cap and over half of it's roster are free agents (e.g. the Knicks).


So essentially the nice gesture that Walsh extended to Lee in giving him 7 million as oppossed to the qualifying offer will now mean we can not afford to re-sign him?


So had we given him and Nate the QO then we could have easily retained their Bird Rights being that it would've costed us a little more than 6 million for both as opposed to just 10 million for Lee


I like Donnie, but he did not play that one right at all! I know it was a "nice thing to do" to give David the money, but it looks like it may have been really dumb if what you say is true.


There has to be a catch somewhere, I just dont think Donnie is that foolish!

Wait...... but how soon does a team have to renounce a player's Bird Rights before it impacts their cap?
 

Blas

Benchwarmer
Looks like Isiah made have done us a bit of a favor in trading our pick to Utah. Lottery picks make anywhere from 2 to 5 million dollars their rookie season. If the Knicks were to have a pick in the draft this year that money would be on the books July 1st, thus counting against our cap. 2 million makes a world of a difference if the NBA cap comes in at the rock bottom figure of 50 million.

Well like they say, "Dumb luck, is better than no luck at all"


Ok, so here is how we shed 10 million without having to trade Curry. It has to happen in this order


1.Trade Jefferies: ok so this is a no-brainer, and still thought to be a long shot. But, if Jared Jefferies can put up decent numbers (6 pts 4 rebs 2 ast 1 stl) then he could be the type of player off the bench an already good team would want. Washington,The Spurs,The Celtics and The Nuggets are all teams that could make use of him off the bench and have no intentions on being players in the 2010 FA market thus getting his two year deal for an expiring contract is a fair deal to them.

2. (not going to go over well) Trade either Wilson or Danillo: The bottom line is that these two players can not co-exist. They occupy the same position and while Danillo can slide to the PF just like Wilson can play some SG, neither player should be counted on in those position full-time. I would gladly trade either for Rubio who's contract would not effect our cap into 2012, plus Rubio would make NY a desirable place to be at. Minny needs a SF for the future -we got two- we need a PG for the future-they got 3- lets make a deal! Of course we could use one of these two players to get a team to take Jefferies in the likely event Jefferies plays as good as he always has as a Knick

Trading Danillo after/with Jefferies would actually cut 10.1 million in off the books in its self bringing us to 16 million and trading Wilson after/with Jefferies would save us 8.9 million bring us down to 18.2 million.

3. Buyout Curry: Trading this guy is looking like mission impossible and if he is not traded by draft night next year we just buy him out the next day for 9.6 million. That would free up 1.5 million for us

so lets look at the numbers

Jefferies traded for expiring deal = 6.8

Trading Wilson= 2.1

Curry Buyout= 1.5

That would give us 10.4 million with a 17 million dollars on the books. Now the cap at the absolute worst comes in at 50 million then we now have 33 million to spend.

Best case the cap comes in at 55 million with us making these moves and we have 38 million! That allows for us to retain Lee and Nate's bird rights plus get one Max FA and another All Star calliber player

This has to be one of your coolest posts yet.

Right now I do not like the idea of trading Gallo, even if it means getting rid of Curry.

As much it is important to get rid of our crap contracts, we need to retain those players that can be a star.

Most of us agree Gallo has that potential.

I am not saying he will be Kobe, Lebron, Wade, etc... but you will notice most of those teams are good because they drafted a young star and kept him.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
So essentially the nice gesture that Walsh extended to Lee in giving him 7 million as oppossed to the qualifying offer will now mean we can not afford to re-sign him?


So had we given him and Nate the QO then we could have easily retained their Bird Rights being that it would've costed us a little more than 6 million for both as opposed to just 10 million for Lee


I like Donnie, but he did not play that one right at all! I know it was a "nice thing to do" to give David the money, but it looks like it may have been really dumb if what you say is true.


There has to be a catch somewhere, I just dont think Donnie is that foolish!

Wait...... but how soon does a team have to renounce a player's Bird Rights before it impacts their cap?

We will only be able to resign Lee as an unrestricted free agent. We will be in the mix with everybody else and can't exceed our cap space with an offer. We can forget about resigning Nate though. With best case projections having us with approx $28 mil in cap space, 1 max at $17 mil leaves us with $11 mil to resign both Nate and Lee. That's not enough.

Yes, had we given Lee and Nate the qualifying offer, we could have afforded to retained their Bird Rights and signed a max player and then signed Lee and Nate regardless of our cap situation.

In all honesty, I think Donnie has no intentions of resigning Lee and Nate next year. If we get Lebron he would most likely play PF in D'Antoni's system. Donnie knows Lee is not meant to play C. Therefore he will let him walk.

I think Donnie will sign Lebron for the max and then use the remaining $11 mil to get a Center (would Amare take $11 mil to play with Lebron and D'Antoni?). Then he'll probably re-offer Duhon the mid-level exception because there are no other PGs available. Then try and trade Curry's and Jeffries' expiring contracts for a SG. I see this as being a highly probable and very logical approach to the 2010 offseason.
 

Oldtimer

Rotation player
2010 Salary Cap Space

In early July the League informed the NBA teams that it projected the 2010 Salary Cap, which is a function of revenue, to be somewhere between $50.4M and $53.6M. The mid-point between those two numbers is $52M.

Recently Walsh announced that in 2010 the Knicks would be about $21M under the Cap. Since the Cap has yet to be set definitively, I am not sure what Cap number he was projecting.

The 2010 committed contract amounts for Curry, Jefferies, Gallinari, Chandler, Hill and Douglas add up to about $27.33M. Barring trades, these contracts will all be included in 2010 "Team Salary." Because free agent contracts, i.e,, Lee, Nate, Harrington, etc., are also included in the "Team Salary" and in amounts exceeding their 2009 contracts, we can assume that the Knicks will renounce their Bird or other rights to avoid inclusion in the "Team Salary." As I understand it, unused mid-level and bi-annual exceptions are also included unless renounced. I believe last year's mid-level was about $5.8M. I am not sure, but I believe the bi-annual was about $1.9M.

Lets assume the Knicks renounce both the Bird rights to their free agents and the two otherwise included exceptions. That would leave us with only six players. The roster for "Team Salary" purposes must be at least 12. The other six positions, for Team Salary purposes must be filled up with assumed minimum salary players. The minimum player salary for 2010 is $473,604. For six minimum salary players the "Team Salary" will be increased by $2,841,624. If we add that to $27.33M, we will have a minimum 2010 Team Salary of about $30,171M. If the League Cap projections prove to be accurate, that will give us between $20M and $23M in 2010 Cap space.

A max contract is 30% of the salary cap. On the League projections, a max contract will cost between $15M and $16M.

Without trades of both Curry and Jefferies, it will be impossible to get two max contract free agents. Without a trade of at least Jefferies, we will only be able to sign one of our free agents.

If we can trade Jefferies and avoid a contract extending into 2010, we can sign perhaps two of our free agents and one max contract. But if our 2010 team includes a max free agent and two of our current free agents, our "Team Salary" in 2011 even without Curry's contract is not likely to leave room for a max free agent in 2011.

But then again, in 2011 there may be a new, and more favorable for Cap purposes, Collective Bargaining Agreement.
 

New New York

Quiet Storm
We will only be able to resign Lee as an unrestricted free agent. We will be in the mix with everybody else and can't exceed our cap space with an offer. We can forget about resigning Nate though. With best case projections having us with approx $28 mil in cap space, 1 max at $17 mil leaves us with $11 mil to resign both Nate and Lee. That's not enough.

Yes, had we given Lee and Nate the qualifying offer, we could have afforded to retained their Bird Rights and signed a max player and then signed Lee and Nate regardless of our cap situation.

In all honesty, I think Donnie has no intentions of resigning Lee and Nate next year. If we get Lebron he would most likely play PF in D'Antoni's system. Donnie knows Lee is not meant to play C. Therefore he will let him walk.

I think Donnie will sign Lebron for the max and then use the remaining $11 mil to get a Center (would Amare take $11 mil to play with Lebron and D'Antoni?). Then he'll probably re-offer Duhon the mid-level exception because there are no other PGs available. Then try and trade Curry's and Jeffries' expiring contracts for a SG. I see this as being a highly probable and very logical approach to the 2010 offseason.


That would make giving him 7 million even more perplexing! Why pay the extra luxuary tax for a player that he is not intending on keeping?

Why wasnt Lee's camp able to be convinced how he wouldve made more as a Knick next summer had he just signed the QO this season?

If David Lee walks next season after we paid him more money than we had to this year, than this was one of the dumbest moves in Knick history including some of Isiah's moves.....which is why I think there has to be a loophole in this rule that we are not considrering, no way Donnie is that dumb....is he?

About trading Curry and/or Jefferies for a long term deal next summer, I agree! I think we could get Chi to trade us Hinrich for Curry in a cost cutting move. Or maybe even Sac giving us Kevin Martin.....like you said still a long shot.
 

DANUTZ39

Benchwarmer
So essentially the nice gesture that Walsh extended to Lee in giving him 7 million as oppossed to the qualifying offer will now mean we can not afford to re-sign him?


So had we given him and Nate the QO then we could have easily retained their Bird Rights being that it would've costed us a little more than 6 million for both as opposed to just 10 million for Lee


I like Donnie, but he did not play that one right at all! I know it was a "nice thing to do" to give David the money, but it looks like it may have been really dumb if what you say is true.


There has to be a catch somewhere, I just dont think Donnie is that foolish!

Wait...... but how soon does a team have to renounce a player's Bird Rights before it impacts their cap?


1) Well the thing with the bird rights goes like this:

To retain Lee's and Nate's bird rigts next year will cost 1.5 x their this year salaries so 10.5 mill for Lee and 6 mill for Nate.

On the other hand if they would had signed the QQ their bird rights would be 3x the QQ, so that means 7.8 mill for Lee and 8.7 mill for Nate. Exactly the same amount.

So what Walsh did was give them some respect and injectives to work hard this seasson and also keep them loyal to the team.

2) There is no time limit on when you have to renounce your free agents bird rights. Teams can renounce yhem the day before signing another free agent in order to clear cap space for that player. Walsh will renounce couple of them comes july 1 next year but will hold on to some(Lee, Nate, Harrington?) till he is going to need that cap to sign a max player.
 
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