"Poor shooting" is really bad offense

The level of analysis by the usual press suspects is sorely lacking.

This is not a case of individual poor shooting, but a case of really bad team offense. Players have been running zero pick-and-roll plays, just passing the ball around (mostly the perimeter), rarely forcing anything inside or attempting to in any way break down the opponents' defense, simply taking what the defense gives them, and then launching jump shots at the first availability.

Even if these shots were falling, this would be a poor offensive strategy; resulting in few foul shots and fewer opponents in any kind of foul trouble.

The excuse that this is just preseason and players are just working on the weaknesses in their game is lame at best. Poor work habits and a lazy strategic approach are inexcusable from a team that has accomplished zero in the last decade. If they were playing hard and hustling and making mistakes and losing, that would be one thing. A lack of effort, concept, and competitiveness is quite another.

nixon7 said:

The level of analysis by the usual press suspects is sorely lacking.

This is not a case of individual poor shooting, but a case of really bad team offense. Players have been running zero pick-and-roll plays, just passing the ball around (mostly the perimeter), rarely forcing anything inside or attempting to in any way break down the opponents' defense, simply taking what the defense gives them, and then launching jump shots at the first availability.

Even if these shots were falling, this would be a poor offensive strategy; resulting in few foul shots and fewer opponents in any kind of foul trouble.

The excuse that this is just preseason and players are just working on the weaknesses in their game is lame at best. Poor work habits and a lazy strategic approach are inexcusable from a team that has accomplished zero in the last decade. If they were playing hard and hustling and making mistakes and losing, that would be one thing. A lack of effort, concept, and competitiveness is quite another.

Click to expand...

This is a case of you over analyzing a team after only 3 pre season games.
The hornets lost by like 40 last night, are they a poor team no
The celtics and knicks both shot like 20 percent from the field in the first half the other night. Are the celtics that bad no. The knicks are missing 5 out of 37 three pointers man, thats just called no legs. While I admit that we could be playing harder, I also feel that the rotation is all over the place and no one has gotten a chance to get into a legitimate flow. hughes is like 0-12, Gallo is going like 1-9. I refuse to believe we are going to go 5-37 every night. Funny thing in so far our defense looks pretty good. WE just havent been making shots, so It might be the work we are putting on one end is effecting our energy on the other end. It will all work out


45-37

Missing my point

You seem to completely miss my point. I would be happier if they were 0-3 but playing the right way.

And I could care less if they were 3-0 and hitting threes like mad but setting no picks and staggered screens, penetrating and dishing, pressing full-court on every possession, playing 12-15 deep over ten minutes each, etc.

Yeah, I get that they have no legs, because D'Antoni ran them hard and they are tight.

But that just proves the lack of commitment to serious conditioning work over the summer. Given the lack of success any of them has ever enjoyed, they should be showing up in September looking like they just got out of a navy seal boot camp.

nixon7 said:

You seem to completely miss my point. I would be happier if they were 0-3 but playing the right way.

And I could care less if they were 3-0 and hitting threes like mad but setting no picks and staggered screens, penetrating and dishing, pressing full-court on every possession, playing 12-15 deep over ten minutes each, etc.

Yeah, I get that they have no legs, because D'Antoni ran them hard and they are tight.

But that just proves the lack of commitment to serious conditioning work over the summer. Given the lack of success any of them has ever enjoyed, they should be showing up in September looking like they just got out of a navy seal boot camp.

Click to expand...

No I get your point, but ten games into the regular season we are 2-8 shooting 37 percent then its an issue. I just hate analyzing teams in the preseason, I have seen championship teams go 2-5 in the preseason. I watched the knicks dismantle the celtics last yr in preseason where the celts went like 3-5. The celts went to win 27 of their first 29 games, I am not saying we are the celts, but truly the barometer for success in the regular season is measured by only performances during the regular season. Pre season is a wash, its part of getting into condition. There may be like 20 players who come to work every year in game form, and I dont think I need to say their names.

On that note who on our team is not in condition

NAte is
Lee is
Chandler is
Harrington is
Darko is

none of these guys look as if they are losing energy, they just look as if they are exhausted from two a days, and finally playing defense during practice training camp and games.

I get your point and it is a good one, my point in return is dont worry so fast.

it does help to have a point guard that can create easy shots for other players....lets go nashhhhh...you runnning out of time..

DontForgetDerekHarper said:

No I get your point, but ten games into the regular season we are 2-8 shooting 37 percent then its an issue. I just hate analyzing teams in the preseason, I have seen championship teams go 2-5 in the preseason. I watched the knicks dismantle the celtics last yr in preseason where the celts went like 3-5. The celts went to win 27 of their first 29 games, I am not saying we are the celts, but truly the barometer for success in the regular season is measured by only performances during the regular season. Pre season is a wash, its part of getting into condition. There may be like 20 players who come to work every year in game form, and I dont think I need to say their names.

On that note who on our team is not in condition

NAte is
Lee is
Chandler is
Harrington is
Darko is

none of these guys look as if they are losing energy, they just look as if they are exhausted from two a days, and finally playing defense during practice training camp and games.

I get your point and it is a good one, my point in return is dont worry so fast.

Click to expand...

Always enjoy reading your comments. Well thought out and reasonable.

DontForgetDerekHarper said:

This is a case of you over analyzing a team after only 3 pre season games.
The hornets lost by like 40 last night, are they a poor team no
The celtics and knicks both shot like 20 percent from the field in the first half the other night. Are the celtics that bad no. The knicks are missing 5 out of 37 three pointers man, thats just called no legs. While I admit that we could be playing harder, I also feel that the rotation is all over the place and no one has gotten a chance to get into a legitimate flow. hughes is like 0-12, Gallo is going like 1-9. I refuse to believe we are going to go 5-37 every night. Funny thing in so far our defense looks pretty good. WE just havent been making shots, so It might be the work we are putting on one end is effecting our energy on the other end. It will all work out


45-37

Click to expand...

I'd say 40-43 wins, but 45 IS possible.

cosigned.....

DontForgetDerekHarper said:

No I get your point, but ten games into the regular season we are 2-8 shooting 37 percent then its an issue. I just hate analyzing teams in the preseason, I have seen championship teams go 2-5 in the preseason. I watched the knicks dismantle the celtics last yr in preseason where the celts went like 3-5. The celts went to win 27 of their first 29 games, I am not saying we are the celts, but truly the barometer for success in the regular season is measured by only performances during the regular season. Pre season is a wash, its part of getting into condition. There may be like 20 players who come to work every year in game form, and I dont think I need to say their names.

On that note who on our team is not in condition

NAte is
Lee is
Chandler is
Harrington is
Darko is

none of these guys look as if they are losing energy, they just look as if they are exhausted from two a days, and finally playing defense during practice training camp and games.

I get your point and it is a good one, my point in return is dont worry so fast.

Click to expand...

ye but the celtics werent just jacking up shots and shooting a horrid 20-30%. and ur comparing the knicks to a team that plays hard and keeps every game close. its delusional

i can take a positive out of this tho. the defense looks stronger and if THATS the reason theyre taking so many poor shots then i'll say let them keep losing games if thats what it takes to play D and get better offensively @ the same time

Points taken

and I will grant that the defense is marginally better, although far short of where it needs to be. However, I agree that patience with the defense is reasonable so long as there is consistent progress on that front.

Your list of the players who are in shape is also reasonable, and I am willing to cut Gallinari some slack because his rehab required rest not boot camp. Despite the weight loss, Curry's lack of progress in general conditioning is obviously disappointing, so I will not belabor that.

I will also concede that preseason is a terrible yardstick. Maybe they are jacking up bad threes in the games, but in practice they are setting screens, working on pinning their defenders and over-the-top-pass timing, working on waiting for the screener to set so you don't get called for moving screens, splitting double-teams rather than turning the wrong direction out of proper position for the pass out, working on not picking up their dribble too early leading to a forced and predictable lazy pass - in other words all the fundamental mistakes that they regularly made last year and need to work on improving this year.

All the fundamentals that you see high school players doing correctly, but these alledged professionals regularly violating.

Channelling ones inner-Loughery

Wednesday October 14, 2009 5:18 PM By Alan Hahn

Mike D'Antoni wasn't about to take the gentle approach with his collection of tender egos. Today at practice, D'Antoni screamed a few times when things got sloppy and afterward said it was because he saw self-pity tendencies starting to surface.

So the team is shooting 37 percent from the field after three preseason games. Does anyone expect this to be the trend all year?

Ask any shooter, from Allan Houston to Reggie Miller, how you get out of a slump.

"Keep shooting."

Or, as D'Antoni said in a quote borrowed from native New Yorker Kevin Loughery:

Ya gotta shoot 'em up and sleep in the streets!

"I don't really know what that means, but . . . that's how we need to play," D'Antoni added.

At one point in practice, Al Harrington, who was 1-for-8 from downtown in Tuesday's loss to the 76ers, hit a trey and pointed to the ceiling as if to pay homage to the basketball gods for granting him one swish.

Of course since this is bizarro world right now, there was Jared Jeffries, snapping nets like a fisherman. It's remarkable how much confidence he is playing with this season.

D'Antoni spent the workout going over several offensive sets and trying out countless five-man groups. One in particular included five forwards: Jeffries, Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, David Lee and Harrington.

Jeffries brought the ball up the floor and Gallinari seemed to play more of a two-guard role. He was far more active than we've seen in the preseason games and was noticably involved in the offense. Does that mean his shot was dropping again? No. It still looked off and his drives to the basket weren't quite fluid. But he looked a whole lot better than he did on Tuesday.

While Lee looked absolutely spent during the workout, rookie Jordan Hill played with noticable determination, which says something about the kid. Keep in mind, he played just 4:26 on Tuesday. Probably felt he had something to prove.

Hill is slowly coming around -- at least he's stopped fading away -- and made a few strong moves in practice. He still has a lot to learn in regards to timing and reading the defense, but if he keeps it in his mind to be on an all-out attack on the rim while he's on the floor, Hill can be an effective player.

In fact, as much as everyone seems to be in love with Darko Milicic, Hill might be a better alternative in time because he runs the floor better and is more of an offensive threat with his good mid-range game. Milicic has been great defensively, but man, his shot is a mess.

You can say that for just about everyone, however. The team has some heavy legs for sure, which is a result of a demanding preseason. D'Antoni doesn't seem like he will let off the gas any time soon. This is old fashioned run 'em into the kind of shape you want them in. Only the strong will survive.

Perhaps that'll make setting up the rotation a lot easier.

"Probably, legs-wise, we're tired," D'Antoni allowed after practice. "You fight out of it and we will.



i like what im seeing

the portable man said:

ye but the celtics werent just jacking up shots and shooting a horrid 20-30%. and ur comparing the knicks to a team that plays hard and keeps every game close. its delusional

i can take a positive out of this tho. the defense looks stronger and if THATS the reason theyre taking so many poor shots then i'll say let them keep losing games if thats what it takes to play D and get better offensively @ the same time

Click to expand...

You see what really bothers me, is one thing and one thing only.

WE looked great our first pre season game out. Gallo looked great harrington looked great, Chandler looked great. WE played defense, moved the ball and every one was ranting and raving.

My only point to make with this thread is the uphill then landslide approach us fans have towards our team, and that we are doing it already 3 games into preason.

How can we look so great in game 1 and then bad in game 2 and 3.

And be immediately launched into tragedy.

The celtics played horrible the other night

and other than T young the 76rs looked lost half the time

WE shot our way out of two games in a row that we defended well enough to hang around, with two teams that actually are better than us if you check their track records over the past few seasons, and we win the first game.

But yet we are jacking up poor shots

EVery team Mike D coaches if they ( miss ) looks like they are jacking up shots

If they ( hit ) they look like they are one of the smoothest running offensive machines to ever hit the hardwood

THREE GAMES GENTLEMEN

PLEASE

haha

with that being said

we can reconvene after tonights game

if they win, it wont change a thing

THE REGULAR SEASON IS ALL THAT MATTERs.


45-37.

Three's won't win games

nixon7 said:

The level of analysis by the usual press suspects is sorely lacking.

This is not a case of individual poor shooting, but a case of really bad team offense. Players have been running zero pick-and-roll plays, just passing the ball around (mostly the perimeter), rarely forcing anything inside or attempting to in any way break down the opponents' defense, simply taking what the defense gives them, and then launching jump shots at the first availability.

Even if these shots were falling, this would be a poor offensive strategy; resulting in few foul shots and fewer opponents in any kind of foul trouble.

The excuse that this is just preseason and players are just working on the weaknesses in their game is lame at best. Poor work habits and a lazy strategic approach are inexcusable from a team that has accomplished zero in the last decade. If they were playing hard and hustling and making mistakes and losing, that would be one thing. A lack of effort, concept, and competitiveness is quite another.

Click to expand...

The Knicks development as a franchise has one of many stepping stones. One is that you can't win games by always throwing up three point shots. I don't care that most players shoot from behind the arc or if your players are better three point shooters. In basketball, if you want to establish an offense, you have to establish the closer/easier shots and you have to draw fouls to stop time and add points. Throwing up threes leaves a team so vulnerable to lose that it is basically a hit or miss when you follow the Knicks strategy that they used against Boston. 5 for 41 from three point land is a head shaker. Why? Why? and WHY? Mike D should teach his players some basic things, and one huge basic thing is that the Knicks have to play aggressive offensively and that doesnt mean throwing up shots.

We need continuity with our passing and the goal of making 2 point shots whether it is a mid range shot or close range jumper, or what I like which is driving towards the basket and drawing fouls.

I'm not saying dont ever shoot three's but ONLY if your not drawing fouls in a game and you have been playing aggressively offensively....shoot three's to mix it up BUT not win the basketball game.

i like what i saw in last nights game, but the game against the 6ers was just sad. I can see them hitting 40 wins, but only if they play hard and learn to keep a lead

The Knicks will win 22-32 games, this season. I say they'll go 29-53.