David Lee or 2nd Max contract?

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dave2138

Rotation player
Obviously the 2nd max contract whether it be Johnson or Bosh is better, but I don't think thats the plan.

If the Knicks sign 2 max contracts this offseason, this is what the roster will look like.

Max Contract 1 - 16.5 mil
Max Contract 2 - 16.5 mil
Curry - 11.3 mil
Gallinari - 3.3 mil
Rodriguez - 2.8 mil
Chandler - 2.1 mil
Douglas - 1.0 mil

Total = 53.5 mil

The cap might be a few mil more than this so that would be enough to sign 2 cheap FA + the 2 2nd round picks. Another option would be to not resign Sergio Rodriguez giving us an extra 3 mil to work with. Maybe sign someone like Raymond Felton as the PG. Regardless, it is impossible to have enough money to sign David Lee if you sign a 2nd max FA.

So why is David Lee still on this team? Why couldn't they trade him to any playoff contending team in need of C/PF depth. I'm sure Lee would have accepted a trade to go to a winning team the rest of the season...

I think the only reason they didn't trade Lee, was because obviously they see him in their long term plans. So lets say the Knicks do resign Lee and he gives them a modest discount for the 1st year of the contract ...9.5 mil for 2010/2011...(meaning we essentially traded Jeffries + Hill + 2012 1st round pick in order to resign Lee without raising the payroll)

So the 2010/2011 roster looks like:

1 max contract - 16.5 mil
Curry - 11.3 mil
Lee - 9.5 mil
Gallinari - 3.3 mil
Rodriguez - 2.8 mil
Chandler - 2.1 mil
Douglas - 1.0 mil

Total = 46.5 mil

Not enough to sign a 2nd max FA, but enough to sign maybe 2 decent role players such as Felton + Camby.

I think this is the more likely route they are going to take. The 2nd max FA is not going to happen, because if that was the plan then there would have been much more rumors that Lee would have been shopped this trade deadline.

No, instead of the Knicks trading Jeffries + Hill + 2012 1st round pick for the ability to sign say Joe Johnson or Chris Bosh as the 2nd max FA...they traded Jeffries + Hill + 2012 1st round pick for David Lee + 1 or 2 other role players... That's the way I see it.
 
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Arod2k9

Benchwarmer
Anybody but Lee, his defense is awful and he's not a game changer and we need to spend very wisely come July 1st. If we don't land Lebron I'll go after Bosh or Wade and wait and get Carmelo or Chris Paul in 2011 to fill that 2nd max contract. This is New York we need a championship and with Lee it ain't gonna happen.
 
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skisloper

Starter
I do not think the Donnie and D'Antonio believe that Lee paired with Bosh, Lebron or Wade is a Championship team.

I am a huge David Lee fan but I do not think he will have nearly the Stats on another team as he does on the Knicks. I do think he can help another team but not the Knicks at this point. We will need a very strong defender and Lee does not offer that.

Look at this way ....the following season Curry comes off and we can sign someone then......

Will be interesting to see how McGrady fits in with Lee.

tonight is as exciting as its been for a long time.
 
D

dave2138

Rotation player
You're missing the point though...

I agree that 2nd max contract > Lee + 1 or 2 cheap role players...but if that was the plan, then why wasn't Lee traded now? Why didn't the Knicks even shop Lee to a contending team to see if they could get a young player back, or a draft pick. Why couldn't they see if the Rockets would take Lee + Duhon instead of Hughes in exchange of the Knicks getting to keep the 2012 pick or make it lottery protected.

The 2 reasons I could think of are:
1) The Knicks are keeping Lee beyond this season.

2) Lee already told Walsh that he is not going to accept a trade to any other team.

#1 seems much more likely to me.
 
bayejorl

bayejorl

Benchwarmer
I'd keep Lee. Maybe he isn't an superstar caliber center and it's true his deffense sucks a little. But such talented people at the C are not very common these years. The guy is still 26 and I honestly think he has still some space to improve. I don't think Crish Bosh deffense is so great neither. Of course he is a much better player, but isn't a great deffender at all.

IMHO Lee + 7 millions > Bosh.
 
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skisloper

Starter
dave2138 said:
You're missing the point though...

I agree that 2nd max contract > Lee + 1 or 2 cheap role players...but if that was the plan, then why wasn't Lee traded now? Why didn't the Knicks even shop Lee to a contending team to see if they could get a young player back, or a draft pick. Why couldn't they see if the Rockets would take Lee + Duhon instead of Hughes in exchange of the Knicks getting to keep the 2012 pick or make it lottery protected.

The 2 reasons I could think of are:
1) The Knicks are keeping Lee beyond this season.

2) Lee already told Walsh that he is not going to accept a trade to any other team.

#1 seems much more likely to me.
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Like I said Lee produces for the Knicks....For Walsh to get rid of our only all-star in years to the Rockets instead of Hughes why would he do that ? There is a bit of respect that the Knicks to create both from the team and mgmt....

Remember we are all Jaded. As much as we love David lee truth is seeing him amongst the All-Star players he really did not belong..........

He is an unrestricted free agent next year so any team that trades for him would rent him as we did with McGrady..................

Why cannot you just come to terms that for the past 4 seasons we have been terrible. Now its time to move on Lee included...

Reality is we sucked.
 
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dave2138

Rotation player
skisloper said:
Like I said Lee produces for the Knicks....For Walsh to get rid of our only all-star in years to the Rockets instead of Hughes why would he do that ? There is a bit of respect that the Knicks to create both from the team and mgmt....

Remember we are all Jaded. As much as we love David lee truth is seeing him amongst the All-Star players he really did not belong..........

He is an unrestricted free agent next year so any team that trades for him would rent him as we did with McGrady..................

Why cannot you just come to terms that for the past 4 seasons we have been terrible. Now its time to move on Lee included...

Reality is we sucked.
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You say Lee is an unrestricted FA so he had no trade value. To a team looking to make a run for the playoffs, I would disagree. I don't think the Rockets would have turned down Lee and Duhon instead of Hughes and made the 2012 pick lottery protected and I'm sure no Knick fan would have been upset at that move either.

I'm not really upset that Lee wasn't traded...im just upset that it wasn't really even brought up. There were no rumors like there was with Nate Robinson. It seems very unrealistic to think that the Knicks planned to not trade David Lee to give him respect for being a good citizen here in NY the past few seasons.

If I told you the Lakers offered Adam Morrison + a 2012 1st round pick for David Lee and you don't plan on keeping David Lee beyond this season, do you make the trade? That would have been a great trade for us...we would get a 1st round pick for nothing.
 
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dave2138

Rotation player
"Like I said Lee produces for the Knicks....For Walsh to get rid of our only all-star in years to the Rockets instead of Hughes why would he do that ? There is a bit of respect that the Knicks to create both from the team and mgmt...."

This makes no sense...you would give David Lee respect for what? How many playoffs did he lead this team to? Making the team better > respecting players that you have no interest in keeping beyond this season
 
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skisloper

Starter
dave2138 said:
You say Lee is an unrestricted FA so he had no trade value. To a team looking to make a run for the playoffs, I would disagree. I don't think the Rockets would have turned down Lee and Duhon instead of Hughes and made the 2012 pick lottery protected and I'm sure no Knick fan would have been upset at that move either.

I'm not really upset that Lee wasn't traded...im just upset that it wasn't really even brought up. There were no rumors like there was with Nate Robinson. It seems very unrealistic to think that the Knicks planned to not trade David Lee to give him respect for being a good citizen here in NY the past few seasons.

If I told you the Lakers offered Adam Morrison + a 2012 1st round pick for David Lee and you don't plan on keeping David Lee beyond this season, do you make the trade? That would have been a great trade for us...we would get a 1st round pick for nothing.
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Why would the Lakers give us a 1st round pick for David Lee. They have a championship team and their picks will keep them solid.

Why would the Rockets want Lee and Duhon. Duhon is afraid to shoot the ball.

Not respect for David Lee ...You missed the point.
For the Knicks to trade their All-Star away to get dick in return is a way of saying **** this season and the next 30 games. Not that we will do much these next 30 games but the starting 5 of Sergio ( I hate duhon), Chandler McGrady, Lee and Gallo may be the best 5 we had all year.n How scary is that!!!!!!!!
 
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dave2138

Rotation player
skisloper said:
Why would the Lakers give us a 1st round pick for David Lee. They have a championship team and their picks will keep them solid.

Why would the Rockets want Lee and Duhon. Duhon is afraid to shoot the ball.

Not respect for David Lee ...You missed the point.
For the Knicks to trade their All-Star away to get dick in return is a way of saying **** this season and the next 30 games. Not that we will do much these next 30 games but the starting 5 of Sergio ( I hate duhon), Chandler McGrady, Lee and Gallo may be the best 5 we had all year.n How scary is that!!!!!!!!
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What Knick fan cares about the next 30 games?

I put Duhon in the deal because that is the only way the salaries would match up...

I said a 2012 1st round pick from the lakers..you act like David Lee has no trade value.

Ronnie Brewer got a future 1st round pick from Memphis
Tyrus Thomas got a future 1st round pick from Charlotte

Those guys are restricted FA yes, but still I would think most people would say Lee > those 2...to get a future late 1st round pick or even a 2nd round pick isn't much to ask for.


Anyway, what are we arguing about...we both don't want nor expect Lee to be back next year. You don't find it a little bit unsettling that the Knicks didn't even attempt to get anything back from Lee by the trade deadline? Like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if the reason they didn't attempt to trade Lee is because they planned on resigning him.
 
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New New York

New New York

Quiet Storm
I love the Thread, I wish I had thought of it first!!!!


David Lee for sure. This is what I was saying before the Jefferies trade

I imagine we can nab D Lee for a contract possible starting at 9 million.

But I guess it really isnt that cut and dry, it does come down to which max FA we get.

I think with the shooters we have, David Lee and Bosh or Amare -if we get him for no more than 15 million- would be a good combo.

If we sign Lebron, I think it would be better to add a second max.


But just because he has suffered through the losing I would like to see David be around for the good times. It would be a reward for all his hard work!


But really it comes down to what other players we look to add around our FA acquisitions.
 
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skisloper

Starter
dave2138 said:
What Knick fan cares about the next 30 games?

I put Duhon in the deal because that is the only way the salaries would match up...

I said a 2012 1st round pick from the lakers..you act like David Lee has no trade value.

Ronnie Brewer got a future 1st round pick from Memphis
Tyrus Thomas got a future 1st round pick from Charlotte

Those guys are restricted FA yes, but still I would think most people would say Lee > those 2...to get a future late 1st round pick or even a 2nd round pick isn't much to ask for.


Restricted versus Not Restricted is night and day. Charlotte now has last refusal with Thomas.
Remember Lee makes 8 million so Lakers or whoever it you suggest would have had to have an expiring contract for the same amount. Donnie was not taking on anything into next year.

All we did was trade one first round pick, Hughes, Jeffries and Hill for Sergio and McGrady. Do not view Hill a top pick. Donnie made a mistake and he knows it. Now he has found some value by trading his mistake away. Best way to deal with a mistake is find value in it and he did.
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D

dave2138

Rotation player
skisloper said:
dave2138 said:
What Knick fan cares about the next 30 games?

I put Duhon in the deal because that is the only way the salaries would match up...

I said a 2012 1st round pick from the lakers..you act like David Lee has no trade value.

Ronnie Brewer got a future 1st round pick from Memphis
Tyrus Thomas got a future 1st round pick from Charlotte

Those guys are restricted FA yes, but still I would think most people would say Lee > those 2...to get a future late 1st round pick or even a 2nd round pick isn't much to ask for.


Restricted versus Not Restricted is night and day. Charlotte now has last refusal with Thomas.
Remember Lee makes 8 million so Lakers or whoever it you suggest would have had to have an expiring contract for the same amount. Donnie was not taking on anything into next year.

All we did was trade one first round pick, Hughes, Jeffries and Hill for Sergio and McGrady. Do not view Hill a top pick. Donnie made a mistake and he knows it. Now he has found some value by trading his mistake away. Best way to deal with a mistake is find value in it and he did.
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What about all the rumors of Thomas for Al Harrington? Maybe Chicago would have had more interest if it was David Lee instead and then they could have sent Thomas to Charlotte for the picks? Anyway, I'm just throwing out ideas..no point in arguing whether or not they could have went through. I'm just very surprised there were no rumors about it.

Again, the only logical reason there were no rumors about it is because there is a very good chance they will look to resign Lee this off season eliminating any chance at a 2nd max free agent.

I agree though with the Hill statement though...better to admit a mistake and realize any trade value he had and then move on from it. I had no problem with the Tmac trade.
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bayejorl

bayejorl

Benchwarmer
dave2138 said:
"Like I said Lee produces for the Knicks....For Walsh to get rid of our only all-star in years to the Rockets instead of Hughes why would he do that ? There is a bit of respect that the Knicks to create both from the team and mgmt...."

This makes no sense...you would give David Lee respect for what? How many playoffs did he lead this team to? Making the team better > respecting players that you have no interest in keeping beyond this season
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The point is he won't be the leader if LBJ or Wade land here next year. Gasol didn't make anything important in play-offs with the Grizzlies during half a decade, but next to Kobe has rocked the last two years. I'm not comparing them, but Lee is hands down a starter quality center for a contendent team IMHO the team won't be better having Bosh for 7 millions more that could be spent in good roleplayers to have a deeper bench.
 
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skisloper

Starter
bayejorl said:
The point is he won't be the leader if LBJ or Wade land here next year. Gasol didn't make anything important in play-offs with the Grizzlies during half a decade, but next to Kobe has rocked the last two years. I'm not comparing them, but Lee is hands down a starter quality center for a contendent team IMHO the team won't be better having Bosh for 7 millions more that could be spent in good roleplayers to have a deeper bench.
Click to expand...

It will be very interesting to see where Lee ends up and how much of an impact player he is...............I do not disagree with your statement ...Lebrons ability to make players that much better is worth its wait in Gold...Look at th Cav's
 
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paris401

Starter
bayejorl said:
I'd keep Lee. Maybe he isn't an superstar caliber center and it's true his deffense sucks a little. But such talented people at the C are not very common these years. The guy is still 26 and I honestly think he has still some space to improve. I don't think Crish Bosh deffense is so great neither. Of course he is a much better player, but isn't a great deffender at all.

IMHO Lee + 7 millions > Bosh.
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only problem is u can't sign lee for 7m... read the CBA
 
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paris401

Starter
skisloper said:
It will be very interesting to see where Lee ends up and how much of an impact player he is...............I do not disagree with your statement ...Lebrons ability to make players that much better is worth its wait in Gold...Look at th Cav's
Click to expand...

gold is measured in 'weight'... when i am on the bus stop i am 'waiting'
 
nk11

nk11

Benchwarmer
hey guys, ive been stalking this forum and the realgm forum for waaaaay too long. finally decided to join.

anyway i agree that lee has definitely put work in this season and became an all star, albeit after injuries and whatnot, but imo theres NO WAY he's worth his asking price. on any good team he'd be getting 1/3 the plays run for him and and be left with being a rebounding specialist with bitchmade defense. i respect him and all but hes an undersized pf playing center.

bosh>lee all dayy.
 
D

dave2138

Rotation player
bayejorl said:
The point is he won't be the leader if LBJ or Wade land here next year. Gasol didn't make anything important in play-offs with the Grizzlies during half a decade, but next to Kobe has rocked the last two years. I'm not comparing them, but Lee is hands down a starter quality center for a contendent team IMHO the team won't be better having Bosh for 7 millions more that could be spent in good roleplayers to have a deeper bench.
Click to expand...


Ok, so then we both think that Lee will be resigned. I'm not debating how good Lee is as a player...he is my favorite player. I'm just saying that because Lee wasn't shopped around, he will most likely be back next season. Like him or not, that's what will probably happen.

It will be 1 of Lebron/Wade/Bosh/Stoudemire/Johnson + Lee + 1 or 2 role player signings worth 7-10 mil.

No Lebron + Wade, Lebron + Bosh, Amare + Johnson...If that were the case Lee would have been traded for whatever the best offer was already.
 
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