Has Chandler played his last game as a Knick?

I think that what ABCD was saying is very true. Dude is 6'10." Even if we only take that he is mainly a shooter into consideration, he should be knocking them down at a higher clip: he is 6'10," shooting from long distance. Other 6'10" guys, most nights are not going to be chasing him out there. Yet, he still shoots 42%, overall from the field.

Moreover, many of you, when he has a rare good game, come on here ready to throw a ticker tape parade. But what happens for the next few evenings, when he sucks... hard. You say nothing against him.

The guy is a great white hope. There is no other consideration for the amount of slack you cut him. Guys like Harrington get bashed, regularly. Gallo not only gets cut slack. Other players get blamed for his incompetence.

And KBLACK, you post stats of various players, at 21 years. This is a deceptive stat. We all know age, in the NBA, at the very least, has nominal importance. There are 32 year old players with better stats than those that are 22 and vice versa. And progress made by two other players, who happen to be White and European, does not have a thing to do with Gallo.

FACT: Gallo is slow, painfully so. D'Antoni recently said that Nowitzki might wish he was as agile as Gallo, while Gallo might wish he was as tall as Nowitzki. The former is BS, Gallo is not as agile as Nowitzki, which is sad. Gallo moves like Mr. Roboto, out there.

FACT: Gallo lacks any sort of leg power or even the good footwork and graceful movement that someone similarly gifted, insofar as leaping, like Zach Randolph, uses to make up for lack of lift.

FACT: Gallo does not just shoot short shots, he often shoots airballs.

FACT: He is probably the slowest player, physically, in the NBA: I think Ilgauskas when I see him run. But the benefit with Z is that Ilgauskas is a center, who can block, shoot the jumper, etc.

FACT: Gallo's game is not conducive to scoring anymore than he already is, unless you want him to average 20 ppg, 32%. If you look at his game, none of what he does can turn into all-star scoring. He shoots threes all game, gets lots of easy garbage points (because we suck), and, by the end, winds up with his season average. On a good team, he would be riding the bench like the greatest bench rider of all time: King (Jerome) James.

Gallo is a whacker version of Van Horn. We fncked up in the draft, allowing ourselves to be swayed by the whims of a draft candidate. We could have been reaping the benefits of Brook Lopez. Live with it.

I'm not saying Gallo is the greatest player to ever come out of Europe or that he's a superstar in the making. Gallo has a skill set that is closely related to Turk in T.O. He's a 2nd scoring option at best, right now.

But Gallo is essentially a rookie. And he is a rookie coming off of a major injury that prevents him from banging around in the paint.

Whether it's his assignment to camp on the 3 pt line or that he doesn't want to risk his career in a throw away season, I can't really get on the guy for not getting into the paint more. I would demand more of it next season when he's had enough time to recover, condition and get accustomed to the 82-game grind of the NBA.

Which seems to be the plan, in so far that we play him a ton and he gets used to the grind. We don't put him in the low post because he could get hurt, especially where he is often tired. I'm hoping he can add some muscle in the off season.

His shooting percentage is low for his SKILL SET, not his size. I'm not making excuses for the guy who our coach once claimed was the best natural shooter he's ever seen. He should be shooting at a higher rate then he is. But I am willing to cut him slack in what most basketball analysts consider his rookie season.

In the end, OG is probably right in so far as we screwed ourselves in the draft and could of ended up with a better impact player in the shorter term.

But he's also right in that we've got to live with it.
We've invested a lot into this kid and we're going to have to give it due diligence and see if it will pay off.

OG, I really like your analytical skills when it comes to the Knicks and basketball. You give me a slant on the Knicks I often don't see (maybe it's the rose colored glasses) but can we please leave the racial stuff behind us? It really hampers your arguments when you're putting in obvious racial jabs such as "great white hope". You're obviously smarter then that and can use a different angle when addressing core basketball issues.

And for the record, Wil has given us solid play at his position and is a great athelete. he is valuable as a member of the team, but also holds value as a trade chip. The only way to address if i would want him traded or kept would ultimately depend on the deal on the table. He still has potential to grow and contribute so I would be looking to get a lot back for him. Probably more then most teams are willing to part with.

OGKnickfan said:

And KBLACK, you post stats of various players, at 21 years. This is a deceptive stat. We all know age, in the NBA, at the very least, has nominal importance. There are 32 year old players with better stats than those that are 22 and vice versa. And progress made by two other players, who happen to be White and European, does not have a thing to do with Gallo.

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I used it to show the fact that guys in the NBA from Europe start slow...It's been fairly well documented that a lot of the time European players struggle to adjust to the game early, even great players like Dirk and pretty good players like Andrea. The fact is the European game is different, it has nothing to do with being white it has everything to do with coming over from European basketball camps...

http://britishbasketball.blogspot.com/2007/05/post-euroleague-final-and-suns-v-spurs.html

I certainly felt the gap between these two teams and the NBA was getting smaller and not larger. The focus on team play is such a hallmark of European basketball, it does contrast greatly with the game back home. Barring Steve Nash, it so often seemed a game of individuals.

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Being EUROPEAN is the factor, not being white...these players are taught a quite different game than from the NBA game. That's why I cited where other European players were at the same point in their career, because it matters. It takes time to adjust.

FACT: Gallo is slow, painfully so. D'Antoni recently said that Nowitzki might wish he was as agile as Gallo, while Gallo might wish he was as tall as Nowitzki. The former is BS, Gallo is not as agile as Nowitzki, which is sad. Gallo moves like Mr. Roboto, out there.

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I agree with you, nobody is debating that. As I said in prior posts, the reason Nowitzki scores so easily is because of footwork, even if Nowitzki is slow as shit.

FACT: Gallo lacks any sort of leg power or even the good footwork and graceful movement that someone similarly gifted, insofar as leaping, like Zach Randolph, uses to make up for lack of lift.

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Right, but this is something that can be taught with proper conditioning...Dirk was able to learn it, why not Gallo?

FACT: Gallo does not just shoot short shots, he often shoots airballs.

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Yes, airballs short, which goes to my point. And if he is shooting airballs wide, that is likely to show that he is pushing the ball with his right or his left, indicating he knows he doesn't have the strength to get the ball to the hoop. As I said earlier, I admit Gallo needs to work on his strength.

FACT: He is probably the slowest player, physically, in the NBA: I think Ilgauskas when I see him run. But the benefit with Z is that Ilgauskas is a center, who can block, shoot the jumper, etc.

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"Probably" the slowest player in the NBA, is not really a fact...either he is or he isn't, that's a fact. This is more like opinion. Derek Jeter is "probably" the best short stop of all time, is that a fact? Not really, it doesn't really say much...it just says more about your opinion of a particular player.

FACT: Gallo's game is not conducive to scoring anymore than he already is, unless you want him to average 20 ppg, 32%. If you look at his game, none of what he does can turn into all-star scoring. He shoots threes all game, gets lots of easy garbage points (because we suck), and, by the end, winds up with his season average. On a good team, he would be riding the bench like the greatest bench rider of all time: King (Jerome) James.

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This isn't a fact, it's more like opinion. I'm not saying Gallo can be an all-star, but if he turns into a better jump shooter, he provides an outside threat teams have to respect, preventing double teams on slashers and collapsing into the key on players driving. Plus if he learns footwork, he could develop a high post game...I think I'd rather give this guy another year...if he does nothing this offseason to further improve his game and make himself a better player and learn the NBA-style, then I will agree with you that this guy was a total waste.

Again, no one is saying Gallo is going to the hall of fame. Or at least, I certainly am not...but this guy has not had time to catch up to NBA speed, like other European players (which is why I cited other European imports). And again, no one has answered the point: What do you guys expect to get for Gallinari? A first round lottery pick? At this point, I doubt we can even get that. Is it REALLY worth it to trade this guy for pennies on the dollar, or is it more worth it to hang on to him, see if he can develop and learn the NBA game (like Andrea and Dirk did)? What harm does it do to hang on to him?

Again, you talk over and over and over about Brook Lopez. Nobody is debating that we should have taken Brook Lopez. But we didn't...but that doesn't mean we should just trade what we did get for the nothing he would pull back in return.

We SHOULD have drafted Amar'e or Butler in 2002.
We SHOULD never have traded Patrick Ewing, which started our perpetual indulgence in horrible contracts.
We SHOULD never have traded for Eddy Curry.
We SHOULD never have traded all we traded for Stephon Marbury.

This team has made mistake after mistake. But trading Gallinari for the pennies on the dollar we would get doesn't get us Brook Lopez. It doesn't fix the mistake. It doesn't give us a time machine to go back and fix the error of this teams ways. So - it comes down to - WHY NOT HANG ON TO GALLINARI? WHAT ARE YOU EXPECTING TO GET FOR HIM? IS IT ANYTHING BETTER THAN WHAT GALLINARI MIGHT DEVELOP INTO? IS IT BETTER THAN GALLINARI'S CEILING? If the answer is no, then there is no point in trading him...

And one other thing...I remember seeing a lot of posts on this site when Duhon was playing about him constantly missing a wide-open Gallinari from 3. I'm not saying it is the only factor, but there has to be some sort of effect from this. I know it's not right to blame Gallo's failings on Duhon, but basketball is a team sport. It's very difficult to isolate one guys effort and skills without factoring in the skills of those around him. Now, if Duhon was missing Gallo when he was wide open as much as a lot of people claimed, shouldn't that negatively impact his FG%age (or at least not allow him to increase his FG%age, assuming he hits wide-open threes at a better clip than contested ones)?

jimkcchief88 said:

Gallo may not have been drafted to be a low post presence, but to be 6'11" and not have one go to post move is ridiculous. It shows a lack of coaching on the other side of the pond. You say being tall is overated, but there are certain things you cannot coach: size, strength or speed and Gallo is 0 for 3 in those catagories. In my opinion to be that tall and have no low post game makes you worthless waste of space on the basketball court. What do you do when your jumper isn't falling???? There is a reason why the Knicks keep taking these nightly beatings: teams with big front courts kill us by getting EASY BUCKETS CLOSE TO THE GOAL while our bigs besides D. Lee settle for low % shots outside and we get killed in the paint. Its as simple as that. You say height is "a total fallacy", but Wilt wouldn't scored a 100 if he was 6'2", Kareem wouldn't have 40k points if he was 5'10", and Jordan wouldn't have been a matchup nightmare if he was Spuds height. To say height doesn't make a difference in basketball is like saying baseball pitchers can get the ball to the plate UNDERHANDED. It makes NO SENSE.

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Again, you read what you want to read. What I said is that height is one of a bunch of different factors:

kblack25 said:

To say height is the be-all end-all is not only wrong, it's completely archaic. Height is nothing without footwork, strength, agility, stamina and low-post maneuvers... But what it comes down to for me is, you have to factor in: strength, footwork, agility, stamina, speed AND height all into the formula to determine how a player should be doing on the floor, including some intangibles like heart and killer-instinct. To isolate any one of those and say "THAT is the reason..." is as insane to me as to isolate any other one.

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You are making it sound like height is the only reason Wilt scored 100 points...or that Kareem scored all his points. Kareem would not have scored all those points if he didn't have the footwork, speed and agility to hit his sky hook...All I am saying is you cannot isolate height as the be-all end-all! Again, if height is the sole factor (as you appear to be arguing), why didn't Shawn Bradley dominate? The argument that height is determinative is a total fallacy, that's my point.

I said from the beginning that Gallo was a project because of his slight of build and obvious lack of post game, but you Cocklovers swore up and down this guy deserved to be the 6th pick and was NBA ready. Well two years later and we are still waiting while the rest of his peers are out playing Gallo night after night. Which is why we are stuck with this bum because he has little trade value. If all the same excuses that are being made for Gallo applied to Crawford and Zach, we would have a playoff team right now......

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I was not a fan of the Gallinari pick, I wanted Eric Gordon. I didn't think Gallo is NBA-ready, still don't. That's the whole premise of my argument. But I just don't see the point in giving up on him...what would we get in return? What purpose would be served? So we can have Al shoot every single shot he sees on the floor? What would you hope to gain by just quitting on Gallinari?

Wilson Chandler showed he is ready to perform 30 to 35 minutes per game at the SF position having a decent SG, a decent PF, and a decent Center in the lineup. It is easy to look at the big difference in the Memphis Grizz SF-Rudy Gay winning perfomance now that he have a complete lineup on the court with him.
And we can not forget the great performance Chandler gave us at SF when he was in a lineup with F/C-Zach, F/C-Lee, and SG-Crawful (the final few games of his rookie season and the start of his 2nd season).

As for Gallo and all the Gallo-Fans.....one 6.11 Channing Frye is worth 2 or maybe 3 Gallo's.
We all know the two positions Channing Frye plays well at (C/F).
We also know Frye is a great team-player that will help his teammate score and rebound by blocking their and his defender out of the way.

We dont have a CLUE on what position 6.10 Gallo plays at????
Gallo showed repeatedly he is not a NBA PF in any capacity,
plus he's to stiff, to slow, an uncreative to be a NBA SF.
This Knick 23 win season is all on Gallo 33 mpg as a starter.
Gallo's raw talent is no better than Giddens and Walker

Kiyaman said:

This Knick 23 win season is all on Gallo 33 mpg as a starter.

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What about Chris Duhon playing 35+ mpg for a majority of the season? That has nothing to do with it?

The fact that we have been playing without a true center all year? Nope? Nothing to do with the poor season? (Here comes the talk about how we should have started Darko...smh.)

NYKnuniversity said:

Both are great players, but I'd rather take the chance on Gallo with the chance of striking gold and developing him in to a nice NBA player.

Chandler is ALSO a great NBA player. .

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there's that word again 'great'..gallo is 'great', chandler is 'great'... great..great..great... if we have so many 'great' players, why are we on path to win 30 odd games??

and where do u place a kobe or a 'bron or a wade?? in my humble opinion all three are way better then 'zip'ole or wilson... can't call em 'great' .. what do u call em???

I think that if we trade either Gallo or Chandler, they can be really nasty for other teams. They just can't do it on the Knicks. The fact is that the New York Knicks are notorious for not helping players reach their full potential, examples are Channing Frye and Trevor Ariza who are playing well for their respective teams. There are possibly others but I can't think of now.

KBlack25 said:

Again, you read what you want to read. What I said is that height is one of a bunch of different factors:



You are making it sound like height is the only reason Wilt scored 100 points...or that Kareem scored all his points. Kareem would not have scored all those points if he didn't have the footwork, speed and agility to hit his sky hook...All I am saying is you cannot isolate height as the be-all end-all! Again, if height is the sole factor (as you appear to be arguing), why didn't Shawn Bradley dominate? The argument that height is determinative is a total fallacy, that's my point.

I was not a fan of the Gallinari pick, I wanted Eric Gordon. I didn't think Gallo is NBA-ready, still don't. That's the whole premise of my argument. But I just don't see the point in giving up on him...what would we get in return? What purpose would be served? So we can have Al shoot every single shot he sees on the floor? What would you hope to gain by just quitting on Gallinari?

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For someone who isn't a "Gallinari fan" you sure make plenty of excuses for him. He shouldn't have a post move even though he is 6'10" because height doesn't matter in basketball and Gallo is "European"? All that is just dumb and I don't have to root for that big donut. It was a huge mistake in the draft full of talent and I blame our coach for showing favoritism by drafting his godson. That's it. Excuses are like assholes, everybody has one.

paris401 said:

there's that word again 'great'..gallo is 'great', chandler is 'great'... great..great..great... if we have so many 'great' players, why are we on path to win 30 odd games??

and where do u place a kobe or a 'bron or a wade?? in my humble opinion all three are way better then 'zip'ole or wilson... can't call em 'great' .. what do u call em???

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Since when is choice of adjectives such a problem?

I think they are players with a great set of skills. Does that not make them great players?

Kobe, LeBron and Wade are cemented NBA Superstars...Now you're just being picky.

NYKnuniversity said:

Since when is choice of adjectives such a problem?

I think they are players with a great set of skills. Does that not make them great players?

Kobe, LeBron and Wade are cemented NBA Superstars...Now you're just being picky.

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sorry... just the word 'great' in use with anyone on the knicks in the recent past... shit what the hell is recent... 20years... well prob since patrick just hits a chord...

guess just tired of losing 40/50games a year...every year ... and having the gm of the moment telling us the good times are just around the corner... how many fukin corners are around the garden...

walsh better pull a rabbit out of his hat this summer.... and it better be bugs bunny...

I really wanted the Chandler-Gallo experiment to work. Gallo has thrived without Chandler though. And Will looks very competent when Gallo just camps and has no participation in the offense. So unless they can mesh by next year, Donnie might try shopping Chandler. If the right deal comes across, then yes Will the Trill might have played his last game as a Knick. I hope not, because I still have faith this pair can mesh someday... lol