Here we go AGAIN: Reality Check

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SSj4Wingzero

All Star
Let's just take a look at the playoff teams of last year.

Cavs
Magic
Hawks
Celtics
Heat
Bucks
Bobcats
Bulls

The ones that are for sure playoff teams? Heat, Celtics, Hawks, Magic. I think, anyway.

Bulls have improved with Boozer
Cavs aren't making it
Bucks should improve pending Jennings' ability, that and they now have CDR. Lost Ridnour, though.
Bobcats...who knows. Depends on how they adjust to not having Felton (and/or playing Augustin more).

In any case there's another playoff spot up for grabs. That and the Atlantic is SHIT this upcoming year - Toronto is now a crap team without Bosh, making it that much easier for our schedule
 
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stuntmanmike

Benchwarmer
truth is always somewhere in the middle... this team isn't as bad as some say but it isn't the team promised that was going to define the knickerbockers for the next ten years either... at least i pray it ain't... but give me a break stoudemire is no work horse... 8.9 rebounds a game on a team that had more balls in the air that a jenna jameson porno movie... are you kiddie me???? 6-10 250 and 8.9 rebounds and we gave up lee for that??? at 100 million?? i don't see it walsh is dipshit imho
 
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Speak3asy

Benchwarmer
T.E.A.M!! That is what we are...

To me the Knicks have never really been able to be successful with one star player shining bright. We have had our share of them, but I truly believe that the Knicks do so much better when we have a well rounded and balanced 5 players out there and that is what I'm starting to see. A real PG. For me the last one was C. Ward and for a stint C. Childs. SG is up for grabs and I expect a lot of competition for that spot between players like: Andy, Walker, Chandler, and Azzy. Then the 3 is locked down by Gallo. 4 is Amare. 5 could be Amare, but AR seems to be the most likely at this time. Could be the big European depending on how he comes along.

Balance is what we have been missing. Were getting back to the days when we got to the finals in 99 with a load of players that can and want to play defensively and I hope that mentality spreads through the team. Team defense is something I have not seen from the Knicks in a long time. People can say this and that about the coach, but bottom line is we have players who can get after it on the defensive side of the ball and that doesn't change period.
 
ronoranina

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
stuntmanmike said:
truth is always somewhere in the middle... this team isn't as bad as some say but it isn't the team promised that was going to define the knickerbockers for the next ten years either... at least i pray it ain't... but give me a break stoudemire is no work horse... 8.9 rebounds a game on a team that had more balls in the air that a jenna jameson porno movie... are you kiddie me???? 6-10 250 and 8.9 rebounds and we gave up lee for that??? at 100 million?? i don't see it walsh is dipshit imho
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He may not be Ben Wallace, but he is frankly unguardable at times, making him a candidate for double teams. This is something that Lee (though he's my boy) did not have going for him, and is the reason why he doesn't make players around him better.
 
KnickFanInKC

KnickFanInKC

Rookie
metrocard said:
Richardson, Crawford, Randolph all SUCKED for us.
Lee played no defense and Chandler has no heart.
They PRODUCED, to LOSE.

All Midwest players brought us was losing basketball...the only good one was Anthony Mason and he played like a New Yorker.

Yes, I'm BIAS boy. Respect that and recognize. NYC is the best.

You despise the best, so I really don't care.

You're like a Knick-fan-lite....so iono...


I'm just playing though. I don't want midwest players on this team just because Isiah use to go crazy with his midwest bias. I just want Isiah as far away from this as team, and right that doesn't look likely.
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You put an entire blanket over players from the midwest in your previous post, not just the ones that played for the Knicks. I agree to some degree that the ones that played for us were (are) not good for the team but to say what you said about midwest players was a bit overboard...lol

And I don't want Isiah puttin' his paws anywhere near this team either...He had his shot and it blew up in his face and everyone elses...Skadaddle already!

:beer:
 
jzero29

jzero29

Rotation player
agree sort of.

jimkcchief88 said:
I am sorry guys, but I'm not feeling it. Knicks fans were sold a bill of goods and I am not buying it. This 2010 KNICKS team is NOT a GOOD team and will struggle to win as many games as last years team. Enough of the hype ok. I don't want to hear about "ohhh we got STAT(where did that acronym come from anyway???). All we did is trade one HARDWORKING 20/10 guy for one questionable 20/10 guy. Amare has never had to experience in Phoenix what he is about to go through in New York: the constant losing, the media, the fans, the scrutiny. You say overpaying for Amare was a good move to try to lure LJ. Well it didn't work now we are stuck with a potential problem. Amare shined last year on a good team in a contract year. Let's see how Amare competes on a bad team with with a fat bankroll in his pocket.

We were promised LJ and and another MAX player, we got Amare and a bunch of castoffs. How can you be excited about players the Warriors threw away??? Ronny Turiaf is a donut which is why the Lakeshow dumped him and the others were throw-ins to make the money work. Thats it. Now we got Felton Spencer(WHO????) and some big clown from Russia and I'm supposed to be excited about the upcoming season???

Let's call a spade a spade guys. This is ANOTHER THROW AWAY SEASON BECAUSE WE MISSED ON LEBRON. It is what it is. What do you think Knicks brass is going to admit their entire plan crumbled when Lebron spurned them??? Hell naw, their job is to sell tickets. Did you hear what Lebron said?? No matter what you think about Lebron going to the HEAT, he told it in his statement: Pat Riley and the Heat give him a better chance to win than New York. Trading away every piece of the team for pipe dreams, the Starbury debacle, the horrible draft picks, and general team mismanagement have made New York a place to stay away from and the joke of the league.

Mark it down this team will struggle to win 30 games this year. The rest of the East got way better while we are overpaying backup point guards and Russian castoffs just to save face. Its pitiful really. We are sounding like Cub fans and its pitiful:" Just wait till next year...." Just pray the MELO wants to get the hell out of the mountains and will come home and play for the KNICKS next year and we can grab a real PG like Parker or Paul, not the backup that will be starting next year. If both those thing don't happen, we need to: FIRE WALSH, FIRE DANT, START OVER!!!!
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I don't think things were so bad, turiac is the worst player in that deal and was the throw in. The other two guys are decent and have potential to turn the corner, something jamaal "chuck and suck" crawford never did. The knick will not have 45 wins but they are better then last year. Not as much as I'd like, but they have some noce pieces to develope... If we suck, we get good draft pick and possibilities to get CP3 or parker and carmelo. total turn around. David lee is a loss, he was hard working. Felton was a loss. Granted he is better then duhon, but we paid to much. He clogs up cap space we need to get CP3 type talent at the pg. No one will take him when he's just above mediocre and makes 8 per

JCStone57 said:
I love how you think Felton is a back-up. Guess you'll see the truth soon enough.
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Felton starts on the knicks and charlotte...he's a back up on any team with a good PG.

XxWinKnicksxX said:
Raymond Felton is not a back up point guard as well. In my opinion.
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On a team with an all star pg he is. If the knicks can get CP3, we'll be stuck with feltons now lofty contract.
JCStone57 said:
Felton himself said he'll be good for 16 and 8 this year as averages.
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oh as long as he said it must happen. Even so, he's not CP3 level talent.
 
S

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
Felton, a backup PG on most teams? Are you high?

Felton averaged 5.6 assists per game while playing for one of the slowest half-court offenses in basketball

Expect his assists per game to go up. Even in Larry Brown's system he was still a league average point guard stat-wise. Hell he was better than league average - better than starting PGs such as Jose Calderon, Andre Miller, Mike Conley, Jarrett Jack, etc.

Hell, Mike Bibby was the starting PG for the Hawks, a playoff team. Felton is BY FAR better...shut up about this whole "he's a backup", because if he's a backup then odds are that means we somehow snagged Steve Nash when I wasn't looking
 
jzero29

jzero29

Rotation player
SSj4Wingzero said:
Felton, a backup PG on most teams? Are you high?

Felton averaged 5.6 assists per game while playing for one of the slowest half-court offenses in basketball

Expect his assists per game to go up. Even in Larry Brown's system he was still a league average point guard stat-wise. Hell he was better than league average - better than starting PGs such as Jose Calderon, Andre Miller, Mike Conley, Jarrett Jack, etc.

Hell, Mike Bibby was the starting PG for the Hawks, a playoff team. Felton is BY FAR better...shut up about this whole "he's a backup", because if he's a backup then odds are that means we somehow snagged Steve Nash when I wasn't looking
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haha, felton or mike bibby? andre miller? pg assist number are suppose to increase with larry brown because he is a pass first type of coach. especially from his PG. Secondly larry brown is know for making his guards improve their shot selection. thus bolstering their field goal %...So while he'll be let loose and is suppose to increase soooo much. So was duhon... His stats did...along with his minutes, shots and turn overs. then he got burnt out. DUHon number obviously increased with him taking more shots and more minutes. Felton is not a lock to be great. Not to mention feltons career numbers are not that great 13pts and 6 ast. That is slightly above avg. Everything is being based on his potential .

Obviously he's not a back up on this team, he's not worth what we signed him for, he's not A-level talent...he's an avg starter. He's not talented enough to take a team to champiionship, therefore not worth signing for a large price tag. When so many other guards are on that level. He may have a slight edge in some knicks fans minds because our lack of defense made him look like an all-star in his appearences here... but his season numbers were no where near his stat stuffing performances against the knicks. which means the rest of his appearences must have been terribble to avg out so low at 12 and 5 last year
 
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SSj4Wingzero

All Star
Uh, while Larry Brown is, as you call it, a pass first type of coach, he also runs a system that runs down the clock and doesn't take too many shots.

Felton is QUICK. He's one of the fastest players in the NBA. Playing in Larry Brown's stifling offense does not utilize his talents well. He'll play much better in Mike D'Antoni's uptempo system which is much more like the system he ran at UNC when he led them to a title.

Just look at what happened to his assist numbers. He averaged 7 APG in 06-07 and 7.4 APG in 07-08 and then it dropped to 6.7 in 08-09. What happened to the Bobcats in 08-09? Oh right LARRY BROWN was hired as coach.

Felton isn't an all-star PG or anything like that. But he's just what we need - a SOLID player who is fast, can play the pick and roll, and can shoot an open shot.

And Duhon's numbers DID improve while he was playing for this system. He went from 4 APG to 7.2 APG...what are you talking about? Difference is, Duhon was never good. At all. He was a second round draft pick who coming out of college was projected at best to be a bench player in the NBA (at worst, he would be flipping burgers right now).

Felton is different. He's a competitor who wins. He's a good passer, a hard worker (Larry Brown even praised him about that), and most of all he's FAST. Duhon couldn't handle Mike D'Antoni's run and gun system - he was out of shape and not very quick. Felton, on the other hand, is one of the fastest players in the NBA.

That and we're not signing Felton to take us to the championship. Quite frankly there's no way we're even making it to the NBA Finals next year or the year after that. But Felton is a solid player who will fill in the role just fine while Toney Douglas develops and we wait for Chris Paul to opt out of his deal.
 
smokes

smokes

Huge Member
jzero29 said:
Obviously he's not a back up on this team, he's not worth what we signed him for, he's not A-level talent...he's an avg starter. He's not talented enough to take a team to champiionship, therefore not worth signing for a large price tag.
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7 million per is not a price tag that commands a PG who will lead you to a championship. Even Rondo before he exploded this season was on a 6 year 8-9-10-11-12-13 million deal. We have Felton for 2 years at 7 million. Guess who becomes a FA in 2 years?
 
pakopako

pakopako

Benchwarmer
SSj4Wingzero said:
Felton, a backup PG on most teams? Are you high?... if he's a backup then odds are that means we somehow snagged Steve Nash when I wasn't looking
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We sure did! He was called Chris Duhon last year! You're telling me Felton is better than CHRIS DUHON? Do you remember where we got CHRIS FREAKING DUHON from?
 
I

iSaYughh

Starter
How I sum up our team and it's prospects:

Most athletic starting 5 in league.

Potential all-stars, at 3, 4, 5 (STAT, Gallo, AR-47), and potential 2011 MostImprovedPlayers at the 1 and 2 (Felton, Douglas, arguably Wilson).

Young.

Deep.

This likely translates into 2011 playoff kicktoy, or 2011 playoff underdog who nobody wants to play.

Either way, with plenty of ongoing cap flexibility we are primed as a franchise.

And we should be truly exciting to watch.

Not exciting like seeing Crawford trot around heaving up last play bricks under Isiah.
 
L

lilman_bklyn

Rotation player
ronoranina said:
This has nothing to do with having or not having mid-west players. It has everything to do with just having bad players. D' antoni, these past couple of years, has had nothing! NOTHING!! NO PLAYERS!! Simply put, you do not win without players.. Pat Riley is a players coach. So's Phil Jackson. Both of em have had the best players and they've both won. You can't have winning without players! I'm baffeled at how you and Jim Chief, or whatever his name is, miss this rather simple point.

Give D'antoni a chance with some decent players. He now has a legit all-star in Stoudemire, and Felton who I think he'll make into something close to one, with some nice young players to coach up. Not to mention Gallo who I think will take it to another level this year. Why do I think that?? Because he has the talent and hunger to, and he has to if we're going to be the playoff team that most of you think the knicks can be.

D'antoni can coach. What was Steve Nash before he hooked up with Coach D? A so-called slightly above average PG. He is now a Hall of Famer because he he played under coach D. He didn't magically become a great PG, and the Suns didn't start winning because of his leap in abilities by accident either. This is history 101 people.

Recent history is undeniable also. Walsh wanted to tank these last seasons to get under the cap. We had cast-offs and throw-away players as result. This equals lots of losses and yes frustration for KNICK FANS! But Coach D will show what he can do this season with serviceable players. Just wait. :gony:
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Pat Riley and Phil Jackson have won championships, please don't put that bum D'antoni in the same sentence as those guys. Have you or any of you so called Knick fans, been paying attention to basketball these past couple of years. The knicks had their fair share of role players and border line stars. A good coach comes in and gets the best out of their players. A good coach makes a decent player good and a good player really good and a really good player great. Did you see what Scott Brooks did with the Bucks and Andrew Bogut? Did you see what Larry Brown did with the bobcats and Stephen Jackson. Good coaches can take a mediocore team and build them into contenders. A bad coach, will rest on his past laurels and wait for a superstar to fall in his lap to TRY to make the team a better one. Mike D'antoni falls in the latter. A good coach doesn't need a superstar to make their team respectable. D'antoni was surrounded by players with enough talent that if he TRIED he could have made the season somewhat respectable. Instead DICKHEAD that he is, showed that he is unable to make it known that he is a good coach, and you fall for it hook line and sinker... still believing that he has some kind of sense. This guy is worst than ANY knick coach this woeful decade and them some...
 
smokes

smokes

Huge Member
lilman_bklyn said:
Pat Riley and Phil Jackson have won championships, please don't put that bum D'antoni in the same sentence as those guys. Have you or any of you so called Knick fans, been paying attention to basketball these past couple of years. The knicks had their fair share of role players and border line stars. A good coach comes in and gets the best out of their players. A good coach makes a decent player good and a good player really good and a really good player great. Did you see what Scott Brooks did with the Bucks and Andrew Bogut? Did you see what Larry Brown did with the bobcats and Stephen Jackson. Good coaches can take a mediocore team and build them into contenders. A bad coach, will rest on his past laurels and wait for a superstar to fall in his lap to TRY to make the team a better one. Mike D'antoni falls in the latter. A good coach doesn't need a superstar to make their team respectable. D'antoni was surrounded by players with enough talent that if he TRIED he could have made the season somewhat respectable. Instead DICKHEAD that he is, showed that he is unable to make it known that he is a good coach, and you fall for it hook line and sinker... still believing that he has some kind of sense. This guy is worst than ANY knick coach this woeful decade and them some...
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Are the Bucks or the Bobcats gonna win a championship anytime soon? No...

Comparing our 2009/10 Knicks teams to Bucks (Jennings, Bogut, Ilyasova) or Bobcats (Wallace, Felton, Jackson, Chandler)... Seriously?

Didn't David Lee get considerably better under D'antoni? Didn't Wilson Chandler?
 
smokes

smokes

Huge Member
And for people thinking Felton at 7 million was an overspend, check out Denver, they just signed Al Brickington to 7 million per for 5 years :lol:
 
Crazy⑧s

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
smokes said:
And for people thinking Felton at 7 million was an overspend, check out Denver, they just signed Al Brickington to 7 million per for 5 years :lol:
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You're joking!? Man... didn't even see him getting the MLE. Let's just pray that the Nuggets are convinced Melo's coming to NY.:crossfingers:
 
NYKnuniversity

NYKnuniversity

Benchwarmer
lilman_bklyn said:
Pat Riley and Phil Jackson have won championships, please don't put that bum D'antoni in the same sentence as those guys. Have you or any of you so called Knick fans, been paying attention to basketball these past couple of years. The knicks had their fair share of role players and border line stars. A good coach comes in and gets the best out of their players. A good coach makes a decent player good and a good player really good and a really good player great. Did you see what Scott Brooks did with the Bucks and Andrew Bogut? Did you see what Larry Brown did with the bobcats and Stephen Jackson. Good coaches can take a mediocore team and build them into contenders. A bad coach, will rest on his past laurels and wait for a superstar to fall in his lap to TRY to make the team a better one. Mike D'antoni falls in the latter. A good coach doesn't need a superstar to make their team respectable. D'antoni was surrounded by players with enough talent that if he TRIED he could have made the season somewhat respectable. Instead DICKHEAD that he is, showed that he is unable to make it known that he is a good coach, and you fall for it hook line and sinker... still believing that he has some kind of sense. This guy is worst than ANY knick coach this woeful decade and them some...
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Since when is Scott Brooks the coach of the Bucks? Andrew Bogut was the #1 pick in the draft...so I'm pretty sure Scott SKILES shouldn't be the one credited for "bringing out" the talent in him. It's been there all along obviously.

If D'Antoni can't be considered among the elite, what makes Scott Skiles an elite coach? He took the Bulls and Bucks to the first round of the playoffs...D'Antoni took his team to the conference finals in years past. I don't understand the example of SKILES (not Brooks), especially because the Bucks were a first round exiter this year...
 
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