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  1. #31
    Veteran nyk_nyk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    You asked Metro why he had CP3 rated 3 points ahead of DWill. He answered you simply and succinctly and his assessments were spot on.

    There is no fail on my part.

    You sir, failed the moment you went and started believing Dwill and CP3 were in the same class.

    DWill is a very very good PG, borderline great, but he is not in the same class as CP3 IMHumbleO.. CP3 is legitamately a great HOF PG, THE BEST OF HIS GENERATION.

    And they don't put up the exact same numbers. You are mistaken there too. Obviously you need to do your research. When healthy CP3 consistently put up assist numbers that are better than DWill and on par w Magic Johnson's and Isiah Thomas's career averages. CP3's scorong averages are better also. Go look at the numbers. I've done my research in this area. So pls stop.

    Your opinion on DWill is purely conjecture and not in line with how they actually look on court, or w relation to season averages. So what are you basing this judgement that they should be rated evenly on??? Pure fanboy BS maybe??

    Metro prolly summed up the debate the best when he pointed out that on the olympic team Paul started over Dwill. So D'ant, CoachK, Jim B. and Nate McMillan all can't judge talent right?

    Yeah you could prolly plug one in for another w similar results, but there are subtle differences in their games that put Paul over the top. More discerning player evaluators tend to pick up on them.

    I don't put you in that category sir..
    Please share what they are, seeing as how your such a supreme player evaluator.

    Now your saying their differences are subtle AND at the same time saying DW is not in the same class as CP??. That makes very little sense.

    BTW, you used Metro's name twice to reply to a post that was directed only at you. Your like that cornball dude that hangs on every word Kenny Powers says.
    Real Talk

  2. #32
    Member jrdrny's Avatar
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    ok first off they will put the ratings higher, not that low.And second you have lebron over kobe come on man
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  3. #33
    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    Please share what they are, seeing as how your such a supreme player evaluator.

    Now your saying their differences are subtle AND at the same time saying DW is not in the same class as CP??. That makes very little sense.

    BTW, you used Metro's name twice to reply to a post that was directed only at you. Your like that cornball dude that hangs on every word Kenny Powers says.
    If you think about it it makes sense that the differences be subtle between a really really good player and a great one. There's obviously gonna be some overlap. Put your thinking cap on NYK NYK...

    The reason I mentioned Metro's name the first time is because he killed your sh#t before you even got the chance to reply. I also happen to agree wholeheartedly with the argument he made and I hate to be redundant.

    Metro actually echoed a point I made about Paul back when I was arguing w you ignoramoids that kept underrating him a month or so ago regarding the effortless way in which he gets where he wants on the court.

    I've posted ad nauseum about Paul already on these boards..

    But since you asked nicely let me be more specific.

    Chris Paul does everything DWill does but better, except shoot w range.

    1. He is a better athlete -- second biggest difference
    Paul is faster getting up and down the court than DW. He's also quicker getting by his man. When he gets in the lane and goes up to finish he is more explosive. DW is heavier and stronger, but Paul is strong too. Plus when you think about it strength is important but it's not a prerequisite to being an effective PG. You need to be quick enough to get to the spot on the court you want to draw the defense or score yourself. Because Paul is quicker and faster than DW he's able to get around the court on O and make it look easy, like he's playing the game in third gear when he has a fourth and a fifth. This aspect of Paul's game makes him really fun to watch.

    2. Court vision
    Paul has better court vision. He is up there w the greats of all-time in this area. He sees the whole floor, knows where all of his teammates are at all times and he sees things before they develop. He can set up a teammate so easily. People give Nash props for his vision and deservedly so, but Paul has this attribute in equal proportion to Nash already and he is still so young. It took Nash years of work and good coaching to hone this trait.

    D will has really good vision but he IMO simply does not see the floor like Nash and Paul. He is a tier below them in this regard. A comparison of their assist numbers bears this out. Go look for yourself if you haven't already.

    You know those plays where Nash gets to where he wants on the court by dribbling under the basket, then around a defender, gets in the lane, draws help and then finds a cutting teammate with a behind the back pass or something like that. Paul can do this too but he makes it look easier. In other words Paul doesn't need so many dribbles and so much time to get the spot he wants because he's so quick and his handle is so right. When he gets to that spot he already knew where he wanted to go w the ball and he makes the right decision. DW can do this too but not as skillfully or as effortlessly as Paul or Nash. The area, as far as stats are concerned, that this deficit really shows up is w regards to turnovers. Paul consistently averages less TO over the course of a given season than DW.

    3. Handle - the biggest difference in there games respectively
    DW's vision is not given the opportunity to really shine because he's not the ball-handler Paul is-- meaning he's not the constant threat to get in the lane at will. If you can not get to where you want on the court with the threat of being able to score once you get there, you will not draw attention. DW simply cannot get to the spot he wants to as easily as Paul and I don;t think he scores as well as him either. This means Paul has more easy opportunities to find teammates if he is aware of where they are on the court, which he always is as I've pointed out.

    I think Paul gets in the paint so easily because he is one of the best dribblers of all-time and he's really explosive. I could probable name a few players comparable to him skill wise in this area. W regards to DW I can think of so many players that have better ball-handling skills than he does. Sorry bro but he ain't no Shamgod, lol.

    4. Feel, Savvy, IQ
    As I've mentioned Paul is always aware of where his teammates are. Combine this attribute with his immense skill and you have some opportunities for him to show his vast ability to improvise on the court. The kid can take lemons and make lemonade ..., and make it look easy. This to me is where the GREATNESS comes in to play. Paul makes plays that are astounding. DW is less flashy not by choice, but because he just can't do what Paul does.

    5. Production
    Paul's numbers are the stuff of greatness. You may not be able to tell that from looking them over, but when you compare them to Magic and Isiah's career numbers, it's easy to see that he is on pace, if he stays healthy to have a very similar, or maybe even a better career than those guys. Seriously, Paul could average 25 ppg, 12 or 13 assists and 3 steals throughout a season. That is his pedigree! DW is not in his class. He is very good in all of the above areas I've mentioned but Paul is great in all of these areas. That is the difference that may not be discernable to the untrained eye. I've been breaking down players for a long time. DW is a tier below Paul in my mind when I rank PGs. Sorry bro..

    Just to be clear:


    05-06 UTA 80 47 28.8 0.421 0.416 0.704 0.4 2.0 2.4 4.5 0.8 0.2 1.81 2.91 10.8
    06-07 UTA 80 80 36.9 0.456 0.322 0.767 0.5 2.8 3.3 9.3 1.0 0.2 3.08 3.18 16.2
    07-08 UTA 82 82 37.3 0.507 0.395 0.803 0.4 2.5 3.0 10.5 1.1 0.3 3.40 2.44 18.8
    08-09 UTA 68 68 36.8 0.471 0.310 0.849 0.4 2.5 2.9 10.7 1.1 0.3 3.35 1.97 19.4
    09-10 UTA 76 76 36.9 0.469 0.371 0.801 0.7 3.3 4.0 10.5 1.3 0.2 3.32 2.74 18.7
    Career -- 386 353 35.3 0.467 0.361 0.799 0.5 2.6 3.1 9.0 1.0 0.2 2.98 2.67 16.7


    05-06 NOK 78 78 36.0 0.430 0.282 0.847 0.8 4.3 5.1 7.8 2.2 0.1 2.35 2.79 16.1
    06-07 NOK 64 64 36.8 0.437 0.350 0.818 0.8 3.5 4.4 8.9 1.8 0.0 2.52 2.41 17.3
    07-08 NOH 80 80 37.6 0.488 0.369 0.851 0.8 3.2 4.0 11.6 2.7 0.0 2.51 2.31 21.1
    08-09 NOH 78 78 38.5 0.503 0.364 0.868 0.9 4.7 5.5 11.0 2.8 0.1 2.96 2.72 22.8
    09-10 NOH 45 45 38.0 0.493 0.409 0.847 0.4 3.8 4.2 10.7 2.1 0.2 2.49 2.62 18.7
    Career -- 345 345 37.3 0.473 0.353 0.848 0.8 3.9 4.7 10.0 2.4 0.1 2.57 2.57 19.3

    As far as their careers go so far, Paul is pretty much better in every statistical category, except 3pt % and not by much. YOU'D THINK BECAUSE DW is taller and stronger he'd atleast average more rebounds but he doesn't even do that better than Paul. Paul is nicer on the court and clearly better on paper as well.

    6. Defense
    Paul is hands down the better defender. He is a lock down defender at the PG position. The boy has been first team all-defense already and he's still very young. He displays very good awareness on this end of the court. When he guards his man one on one he can beat him to a spot and get the clean strip. He has powerful hands and good placement, so he avoids fouls. He also plays the passing lanes really well. DW is not in the same league as Paul on the D end.

    7. Shooting
    They are both nice shooters, but DW is better from 3 point land. He makes more threes and shoots them a little more consistently percentage wise. Both players shoot high FG percentages inside the trifecta line tho. Both hit the open 12 -20 foot jumper, shoot the floater or teardrop in the lane with consistency and make a nice percentage of FTs. Paul is the better FT shooter percentage wise for his career. I'd say w regards to shooting they are about even overall.

    There were some other skill areas that I could have touched upon but you get the idea. Chris Paul is the better player. DW is a really nice player, but as I've stated numerous times he is a level below Paul.

    Last edited by ronoranina; Sep 17, 2010 at 19:07.

  4. #34
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    I think everyone should get bent out of shape over estimated NBA2K rankings.

  5. #35
    Superstar MSGhobo247's Avatar
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    This thread is still going?

    Man the season needs to hurry up and start.

  6. #36
    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    Well the ratings are based on what the players have done most recently. Since they get updated week by week. If you want true 2k11 style ratings, DWill should be higher than CP3 at this moment in time. That ain't saying he's a better player overall, that's just how he should be rated going into pre-season.

    Roy vs Melo is debatable too but I'd give Melo the nod over Roy at this stage.

    I'm just hoping they actually made a game that ain't completely ruined by bugs for the first month+ of release like last year...

  7. #37
    12th man
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    Originally Posted by KnicksWillRiseAgain
    Just saying Bandon Roy is a 86 and Mello is an 84. You cant tell me Roy is better then Mello. Mello has an ability to ceate his own Shot at any angle and thats something only 2 other guys in the NBA have (Kobe, Wade).

    In my book, Mello is an 88. quite possibliy 90. Esspecialy if Bosh, Gasol, and Brandon Roy are 86 ad STAT is an 85. 84 is just ridiculous for a top 5 NBA player.
    Roy is a better defender than Carmelo, and a better all around player with his passing and shooting. Carmelo is the superior scorer, but it really stops there.
    Roy is really underrated and Carmelo is overrated.

    There is no way you can justify Carmelo is a top 5 player, because he isn't, never was and never will be. Maybe if he averaged 9+ rebounds and 5+ assist and play better defense. Right now his game is just non stop scoring. Best scorer in the league? Maybe. Top 5 player? nope.

    Originally Posted by Crazy8s
    What a ****ing waste of time
    Why are you quoting your mother on the day of your birth?

    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    Homie, you embarrass yourself getting all homotional over your precious custom ratings. I don't need to study PER numbers to know that they are basically equal in talent. Both players have strengths that the other doesn't which basically cancels each other out. Example: CP is quicker but DW is bigger and stronger.

    You can put DW on NO right now and they wouldn't lose a step. The same goes for CP and UTA. Also, I'm sure if teams had a choice between DW and CP they'd be extremely happy with either one. You wouldn't lose anything picking one over the other.

    Your making comments about me not being certified to evaluate talent yet YOU are the one acting like an NBA scout's assistant and giving custom ratings for damn near every player. Based on what????? You're not an NBA scout, you're not certified to evaluate stop trying to act like your an NBA scout watching every NBA game sitting on your sore ass jerking off to Mens Fitness magazines. (yeah I used your line and made it better)

    All I did was disagree on your precious PER ranking to justify separating CP and DW by +3. They have the ability to generate the same production night in and night out.

    Nope. I never embarrass myself on this site. You fooling yourself into coming into an argument with no facts. Just your personal bias and opinion. if I was opinionated, I would come in this thread with Carlos Arroyo being rating a 90. But I'm not. He's an average ass guard who doesn't deserve anymore than a 70.

    You spewing the ignorant **** known to man.
    The most ignorant argument a sports fan can do is:

    You can put player A on player B's team, and he'll do the same.

    It didn't happen.
    and it won't happen.

    Your hypothesis is untested and unproven, so why state? Its not factual, so honestly your better off shutting the f*ck up, and sitting your seat.
    It is not VALID, and so wasting font and learn how to RESEARCh your FACTS that have been tested and proven to validity to use them for your failed argument you lost 2 pages ago.

    You're kinda gay for imagining me jerking off to men fitness magazine...instead of wasting your time doing that, why don't you go outside for a run, or grab a jumprope and shred all that weight that your carrying on your body? Maybe it'll be easier for you to think more logically and come less ignorant. Go accomplish something in life, don't speak to your superior like that.

    Your problem is simple: You're too stubborn to accept the facts. Only imbecile think they're uncorrectable. If you came in here with some strong facts, valid facts. I would give you a pound and say props "I didn't know that, thanks for sharing". You can't do that because you feel inferior posting to me because I have this status as the top poster...don't let that phase you. Be a man for once, and learn how to accept the facts and give props to anyone presenting them to you. Don't hate. I'm not here to hate, just don't come in here disrespecting people like a little bitch. You will be made looking like a bitch if you choose to, this thread is an example of that. But you won't give credi to me or ronoranina...its okay though. We're not asking you to agree with us, I really don't care. Just don't come here in with that stupid ****. Peace out.

  8. #38
    Superstar elcol's Avatar
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    yall are ego tripping..
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