Trading Gallo or Randolph for Carmelo will fail us.

KBlack25 said:

Again you are wrong...

The Knicks traded the right to swap in 2011 (they could not outright trade their 2011 pick because they lost 2010) and a Top-1 protected 2012 pick. They have full rights to their 2013, 2014, 2015...

You misunderstand the trade, and misunderstood the rule, which leads to gross misstatements of the situation.

I am pretty sure that the trade does not say anything about 2013-2017...http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4924836

Nothing in the initial report mentions it.

That said, I wouldn't want to make the trade anyway.

Click to expand...

I think the issue might be because the Knicks have the chance of their 2012 pick being 1-5, that cause the the Knicks to go into a holding pattern until Houston officially grabs their pick. Or, their might have been some language changed at the very last minute... We the common fan usually do not get all the facts we just get a summary of transactions.

hometheaterguy said:

I think the issue might be because the Knicks have the chance of their 2012 pick being 1-5, that cause the the Knicks to go into a holding pattern until Houston officially grabs their pick. Or, their might have been some language changed at the very last minute... We the common fan usually do not get all the facts we just get a summary of transactions.

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The 2011 pick is top 5 protected...

2012 is top 1...

That might be the discrepancy...either way I am against trading more draft picks.

KBlack25 said:

The 2011 pick is top 5 protected...

2012 is top 1...

That might be the discrepancy...either way I am against trading more draft picks.

Click to expand...

I meant 2011.... I agree, I was always fro including a pick if the player is of value but there comes a time when you have to stop and start drafting.

Gallinari will be a future NBA star

KBlack25 said:

We traded Frye a month before KG got traded...I'm not sure if it is true (and haven't seen any evidence that it is), and Isiah was horrible with or without this fact...but I'm not sure how true it is.

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I have ALWAYS said Isiah is horrible and if you look up my old post I was so against them getting him when they announced it. I was just saying that there are people in this forum that still champions for him and I do not understand why and if that was true; then that should knock out any excuse you were holding for him.
Back to Melo, what is going to get him is a unprotected pick and probably a top 5 protected pick as well along with an expiring contract and a young replacement that has upside. The Knicks have salary and a young player in Gallinari or Chandler but not the picks. Houston and Chicago has all to offer and unless Melo flat out refuses to sign an extension, we have no other option. The Knicks could only offer both Chandler and Gallinari or the trifecta Gallinari, Chandler and Randolph for Melo; still don't think it is enough. If you are the Knicks you hope this drags out and Gallinari and/or Chandler lights it up and just massively increases their value by the dead line.

hometheaterguy said:

I have ALWAYS said Isiah is horrible and if you look up my old post I was so against them getting him when they announced it. I was just saying that there are people in this forum that still champions for him and I do not understand why and if that was true; then that should knock out any excuse you were holding for him.
Back to Melo, what is going to get him is a unprotected pick and probably a top 5 protected pick as well along with an expiring contract and a young replacement that has upside. The Knicks have salary and a young player in Gallinari or Chandler but not the picks. Houston and Chicago has all to offer and unless Melo flat out refuses to sign an extension, we have no other option. The Knicks could only offer both Chandler and Gallinari or the trifecta Gallinari, Chandler and Randolph for Melo; still don't think it is enough. If you are the Knicks you hope this drags out and Gallinari and/or Chandler lights it up and just massively increases their value by the dead line.

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well here is the article ..... also i included the link that YOU yourself commented on about kg for frye and penny.. now u dont remember???

Christopher Reina/RealGM - A source close to the participants in the talks told Christopher Reina late Tuesday night that New York and Minnesota have had serious discussions about a deal which would send Kevin Garnett to the Knicks in exchange for Penny Hardaway and Channing Frye. Isiah Thomas, who has called Frye untouchable all season, is willing to give up the sought after rookie to land the future Hall of Famer.

Garnett has made it clear to the front office that should he be dealt, he wants to go to New York and that wish will be fulfilled if the Timberwolves decide to end the KG era and begin to rebuild. They reportedly respect Garnett and all that he has done for both the franchise and the area would try to trade him to his preferred team.

The question of if the Wolves want to move on without Garnett will be the deciding factor in whether a trade gets completed before Thursday.

This deal delayed last week's Knicks discussions with the Magic regarding Steve Francis and it is why it will be Jamal Crawford and Maurice Taylor going to Orlando for their first time, instead of Hardaway?s second. That deal is all but complete, but Orlando is waiting to see if Denver returns to the table before the deadline.

If the Wolves choose to retain Garnett, the Knicks will turn to Denver and Kenyon Martin, a player that Larry Brown covets.

http://www.knicksonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2453&page=2

KBlack25 said:

We traded Frye a month before KG got traded...I'm not sure if it is true (and haven't seen any evidence that it is), and Isiah was horrible with or without this fact...but I'm not sure how true it is.

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isaih nixed the deal at the 11th hour. this was in 2006


Christopher Reina/RealGM - A source close to the participants in the talks told Christopher Reina late Tuesday night that New York and Minnesota have had serious discussions about a deal which would send Kevin Garnett to the Knicks in exchange for Penny Hardaway and Channing Frye. Isiah Thomas, who has called Frye untouchable all season, is willing to give up the sought after rookie to land the future Hall of Famer.

Garnett has made it clear to the front office that should he be dealt, he wants to go to New York and that wish will be fulfilled if the Timberwolves decide to end the KG era and begin to rebuild. They reportedly respect Garnett and all that he has done for both the franchise and the area would try to trade him to his preferred team.

The question of if the Wolves want to move on without Garnett will be the deciding factor in whether a trade gets completed before Thursday.

This deal delayed last week's Knicks discussions with the Magic regarding Steve Francis and it is why it will be Jamal Crawford and Maurice Taylor going to Orlando for their first time, instead of Hardaway?s second. That deal is all but complete, but Orlando is waiting to see if Denver returns to the table before the deadline.

If the Wolves choose to retain Garnett, the Knicks will turn to Denver and Kenyon Martin, a player that Larry Brown covets.

http://www.clubknicks.com/knicks-trade-rumors/garnett-big-apple-realgm-t483.html

moneyg said:

well here is the article ..... also i included the link that YOU yourself commented on about kg for frye and penny.. now u dont remember???

Christopher Reina/RealGM - A source close to the participants in the talks told Christopher Reina late Tuesday night that New York and Minnesota have had serious discussions about a deal which would send Kevin Garnett to the Knicks in exchange for Penny Hardaway and Channing Frye. Isiah Thomas, who has called Frye untouchable all season, is willing to give up the sought after rookie to land the future Hall of Famer.

Garnett has made it clear to the front office that should he be dealt, he wants to go to New York and that wish will be fulfilled if the Timberwolves decide to end the KG era and begin to rebuild. They reportedly respect Garnett and all that he has done for both the franchise and the area would try to trade him to his preferred team.

The question of if the Wolves want to move on without Garnett will be the deciding factor in whether a trade gets completed before Thursday.

This deal delayed last week's Knicks discussions with the Magic regarding Steve Francis and it is why it will be Jamal Crawford and Maurice Taylor going to Orlando for their first time, instead of Hardaway?s second. That deal is all but complete, but Orlando is waiting to see if Denver returns to the table before the deadline.

If the Wolves choose to retain Garnett, the Knicks will turn to Denver and Kenyon Martin, a player that Larry Brown covets.

http://www.knicksonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2453&page=2

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I guess I did know this.... Didn't member but like I said then and say now Isiah stinks! Not sure what bringing this up proves... That I did know that Isiah Nixed the deal because of Frye? Hmmm, what a smoking gun you found. Now if you would have found a link of me stating I loved Isiah, that he is the greatest GM ever... That would have been something but that was how many years ago? Didn't remember... Still don't remember to tell you the truth but... the fact that it is there shows I knew.

hometheaterguy said:

I guess I did know this.... Didn't member but like I said then and say now Isiah stinks! Not sure what bringing this up proves... That I did know that Isiah Nixed the deal because of Frye? Hmmm, what a smoking gun you found. Now if you would have found a link of me stating I loved Isiah, that he is the greatest GM ever... That would have been something but that was how many years ago? Didn't remember... Still don't remember to tell you the truth but... the fact that it is there shows I knew.

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no prob.. the whole point is people on this site falling in luv with gallo and randolph.. just like they did with frye...and they r not proven yet.. id prefer to roll the dice on proven player.. Carmelo Anthony....is the real deal..

potential gets coaches and gms fired...

moneyg said:

no prob.. the whole point is people on this site falling in luv with gallo and randolph.. just like they did with frye...and they r not proven yet.. id prefer to roll the dice on proven player.. Carmelo Anthony....is the real deal..

potential gets coaches and gms fired...

Click to expand...

Every time we stockpile young players we trade them away.

It started when we traded the Nene Hilario pick (which could have been STAT) for McDyess.

We traded 2 draft picks for Marbury.

We traded the #2 pick in the 2006 draft and the #9 pick in the 2007 draft for Eddy Curry.

We traded Trevor Ariza, now an NBA Champion, for Steve Francis.

We traded Channing Frye, who lit it up from 3 this year, for Zach Randolph.

Then we traded a young Jordan Hill, a top-1 protected pick, and are swapping picks this year for cap space.

And now, you want to trade all the young players we just got AND draft picks for Carmello Anthony? Potential gets coaches and GMs fired, but trading away potential does the exact same thing, it's all about how they develop and how they perform. We have been down this road time and time and time again.

Look at a team like the Thunder: built through the draft, built with guys that have developed into a TEAM playing with each other, and now one of the most deadly rosters in the West. How many times did they trade their draft picks and young players for "proven guys"? Exactly 0.

You have an opinion, that you'd give up all the youth we have for one guy...and you are entitled to it. But it puts you on the same path as Isiah, and I cannot respect such an opinion.

KBlack25 said:

Every time we stockpile young players we trade them away.

It started when we traded the Nene Hilario pick (which could have been STAT) for McDyess.

We traded 2 draft picks for Marbury.

We traded the #2 pick in the 2006 draft and the #9 pick in the 2007 draft for Eddy Curry.

We traded Trevor Ariza, now an NBA Champion, for Steve Francis.

We traded Channing Frye, who lit it up from 3 this year, for Zach Randolph.

Then we traded a young Jordan Hill, a top-1 protected pick, and are swapping picks this year for cap space.

And now, you want to trade all the young players we just got AND draft picks for Carmello Anthony? Potential gets coaches and GMs fired, but trading away potential does the exact same thing, it's all about how they develop and how they perform. We have been down this road time and time and time again.

Look at a team like the Thunder: built through the draft, built with guys that have developed into a TEAM playing with each other, and now one of the most deadly rosters in the West. How many times did they trade their draft picks and young players for "proven guys"? Exactly 0.

You have an opinion, that you'd give up all the youth we have for one guy...and you are entitled to it. But it puts you on the same path as Isiah, and I cannot respect such an opinion.

Click to expand...

isaih never aquire a player of melo caliber.. and dont say marbury was..

i dont think knicks fans will sacrifice season for what the thunder did...

out of all the teams in the nba.... who did it work for one team.. a tams has to get lucky to dradft player like lebron or wade... so i guess ur sayin what pat riley did in miami is bad thing

there are no young potential type players.. just three studs and some vet duds


we would still have t dog...t mo...chandler...fields...rautins.. jordan.. ewing jr...azzy...walker... alll young with loads of potential

too young of a team is not good..

also... like waht the thunder will be faced with.. can they afford to pay players like jeff green and gasol when they r free agents


around a nucleus of felton... amare..and melo.. sounds good to me...but i guess thats just my opinion

isaih traded for washes up former all stars... oh and the ariza trade was a larry brown thing because he didnt get along with ariza and marbury and he wanted francis to run the point...i blame brown for that one

KBlack25 said:

Every time we stockpile young players we trade them away.

It started when we traded the Nene Hilario pick (which could have been STAT) for McDyess.

We traded 2 draft picks for Marbury.

We traded the #2 pick in the 2006 draft and the #9 pick in the 2007 draft for Eddy Curry.

We traded Trevor Ariza, now an NBA Champion, for Steve Francis.

We traded Channing Frye, who lit it up from 3 this year, for Zach Randolph.

Then we traded a young Jordan Hill, a top-1 protected pick, and are swapping picks this year for cap space.

And now, you want to trade all the young players we just got AND draft picks for Carmello Anthony? Potential gets coaches and GMs fired, but trading away potential does the exact same thing, it's all about how they develop and how they perform. We have been down this road time and time and time again.

Look at a team like the Thunder: built through the draft, built with guys that have developed into a TEAM playing with each other, and now one of the most deadly rosters in the West. How many times did they trade their draft picks and young players for "proven guys"? Exactly 0.

You have an opinion, that you'd give up all the youth we have for one guy...and you are entitled to it. But it puts you on the same path as Isiah, and I cannot respect such an opinion.

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I agree but Melo is a super star... There are only a handful of players, at this point, that you would trade picks and young talent for right now; Melo, Bron, Howard, Wade and I would even throw Deron Williams in there and probably Chris Paul. What the Knicks did in the past was trade youth for crap! I liked Zach Randolph, just not Zach and Curry together. I wanted them to keep Zach and trade for a 5 like Okafor to flank him. Now we have Amare and Turiaf might be what is needed to compliment his game, only time will tell. I think of Turiaf as a bench guy more than anythning else; a 5/4 bench guy. If we had Melo then the Knicks would be a contender. Again, go back to an old post of mine from 2008 I think where I said I didn't want James, I want Melo! I thought Melo would fit the Knicks better! There is a wining formula that all teams have won with. A dominate big, a star (either 3 or 2) and a 3 point specialist to keep the D honest. That has been the formula for success since the NBA started... Amare, Melo, Felton and marksmen get's the Kicks into the final 4 barring a major injury to Miami or Boston. That line up will make the Knicks a top 4 team in the east.

Problem is, we start trading away picks as far ahead as 2014 and we really gamble our future big time.

2014 is 4 years away... By that time Amare is 32, Melo is 30 (if we got him), Gallo and Randolph will be 25 and proven whether they are busts or stars.

If things went south in that time and we don't have picks we are pretty much screwing ourselves into years of irrelevance again.

odom?????

if randolph doesn't develop immediately and becomes better than odom Walsh has to be fired!!!!!!

smokes said:

Problem is, we start trading away picks as far ahead as 2014 and we really gamble our future big time.

2014 is 4 years away... By that time Amare is 32, Melo is 30 (if we got him), Gallo and Randolph will be 25 and proven whether they are busts or stars.

If things went south in that time and we don't have picks we are pretty much screwing ourselves into years of irrelevance again.

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we are tryin to build a dynasty here.... a first round pick in 2014 for us should be close to the last pick in the first round. first round picks have no value to team that goes far in the playoffs... late first round - early second round... all the same talent..

u acting like we gonna be given away a top 5 pick

sorry just the facts

moneyg said:

we are tryin to build a dynasty here.... a first round pick in 2014 for us should be close to the last pick in the first round. first round picks have no value to team that goes far in the playoffs... late first round - early second round... all the same talent..

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This is what Isiah said about the Marbury trade.

And the Curry trade.

Keep talking yourself into it, but trading first round picks like it's going out of style rarely gets a team anywhere.

KBlack25 said:

This is what Isiah said about the Marbury trade.

And the Curry trade.

Keep talking yourself into it, but trading first round picks like it's going out of style rarely gets a team anywhere.

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yep..... see the lakers and boston....who is the last allstar player these guys drafted???? who did they draft with their first rounds picks over the last few years.. i can only think of bynum and he was another teams pick...

and marbury was on the decline.. melo is not.. and also.. marbury had no other teamates.. thats why we got sweept by the nets... double teamed marbury and nobody could step up and make a shot..

go do ur research

First round picks are expendable when a team is GOOD.

Our team...is NOT good.

A first round pick we trade HAS value.

A LATE first round pick isn't much better than a second rounder in this day and age. If you notice about the draft usually you have a ton of talent stockpiled in the first 3-4 picks and then after it's mostly a crapshoot as to who's good or not. Finding a good player with the last pick in the first round is just as valuable as finding a good player with a mid-round pick in the 2nd round.

The difference is, we need draft picks...draft picks are how teams rebuild, period.

moneyg said:

yep..... see the lakers and boston....who is the last allstar player these guys drafted???? who did they draft with their first rounds picks over the last few years.. i can only think of bynum and he was another teams pick...

and marbury was on the decline.. melo is not.. and also.. marbury had no other teamates.. thats why we got sweept by the nets... double teamed marbury and nobody could step up and make a shot..

go do ur research

Click to expand...

Lakers drafted Andrew Bynum, and it was the Lakers' pick. In 2005 the Lakers finished in the lottery, the #10 pick was theirs from the outset. So you are wrong there. Go do "ur" research.

The Celtics won titles because they had a dominant scorer and moved for a dominant big man and got Rajon Rondo (in the draft - with pick 21). Go do "ur" research. He is an NBA All-Star.

You are wrong here.

Alot of witty bantor here, but looks like the Knicks will be left out again. Sounds like Melo is going to end up in Jersey via a 4 team trade excluding the Knicks. There goes that 8th playoff spot the Knicks might have slid into. If Melo ends up in NJ, Walsh and D'ant should be fired right away and us Knicks fans should prepare for the worse.