Sign of the times.

Yes and no.

The prophecy of wars, earthquakes, famine, nations rising against nations, etc, as we've discussed, have always been a part of life. It really isn't a prophecy if it's always occurring.

The article states that The Watchtower is the most widely distributed magazine in the world. Does that mean the gospel of the kingdom is being preached throughout the whole world? I don't know. According to you, yes. Sure, I guess.

I have no idea what the "whole world" means. Does it mean that the gospel must reach every inhabited part of the world? Or just a broad bush approach and it's ok to miss some? I am certain there are many inhabited parts of South America, Africa, Asia, and Australia that have never even heard of a JW or even Jesus Christ.

So, Yes if the "whole world" is used as a broad interpretation, and No if the "whole world" is used as a more literal interpretation. But, and I could be wrong about this, weren't JW's banned from Singapore, Iran and some other countries? Wouldn't that classify the prophecy as false, if it were true?

And the last part of the prophecy will not be true until the end happens, so debating that part would be moot.

Imo this is the fairest you've been, much respect!!!!

Im sure its a broad spectrum. The job is to cover ever nation, to give everyone a chance to know the truth. Even in lands where we are banned, watchtowers and literature are descretely left in places where they can be read. Underground bible studies, etc. Jws risk their lives im these situations, even get killed for it, but we must obey God rather than men. trust me, there are Jw stories abt the most volatile places.... all we get herw is the usual door slam, maybe dog bites, cursed out. The bros and sisters in those lands have it rough.

Explain that vaccine stuff to me again tho. Or show me where I can leatn abt it pls. Thx.
 

iSaYughh

Starter
Psychosis, ITT.

Lol@ the dark ages not having crips and bloods. This belongs in a quality SNL skit.

There are various measurable and metrics that can be used to compare the 1100-1300's and to 1900-present.

It would take actual work on everyone's part to sufficiently compile them and sift through (tho maybe one could be found already done online).

So you just need to ask yourself one question: would you rather be born randomly to some family today, or to one during the Medieval Era.

It's very simple.

You mention modern warfare, ironically, as a primary scourge of our modernity. And it is.

Yet the very countries and people involved in those very worst of wars, are the very people and nations that would be at the top of the list in showcasing superiority in quality of life.

What % of American, Italian, Japanese, British, and Russian people would rather have their current temporal-based existence of modern times, versus the Medieval Era?

The top 1%'tile of life in that time periods would he a humbling, devastatingly wretched experience for 99% of people today.

The absolute worst of human experience and condition today, was the norm; and it didn't have hope in the form of better life and charity.

It's just funny you mention Western problems and examples first and foremost, as if LA smog and inner city NY gangs is some outrageously humbling blight; not even going for the angle of pinpointing, I don't know, Malyasian farmers and Uguandan children.

It wouldn't make your argument any less fallacious and wrong, just more palpable to being digested by someone without actually thinking about it.

Here is a theory and conjecture that I have; we can even treat it as fact as Knickslyfe is so fond of things being treated that way:

You live the most injuriously, loathsomely privileged existence of them all. And if there is a true blight to The World today; a blight that festers not within the actually blighted, but the Western world and all else fortunate enough to only look on from ivory watchtowers: it is you. And the self-gratifying, self-serving equivocation of reality.

So psychotic and zealously rooted, that you would dream of wishing a Medeival quality of life upon the globe, if not but to just make the bubble of religion you've latched on to, make sense.

Shameful and shameless.

Is it because your religion is a fringe, an inescapable figment of your psychosis and personal wants, only shared by a few?

Your arguments of desperately far-fetched logic and morality only mirror the desperation of yourself and your selfish, selfish crutch. Which only works as long as you talk about it, and dream about it, and hope for it, and try to draw from it. Because in the cold, hard facts of life and it's reality: it is meaningless.

Except if we actually lived in the Medieval times and were forced to accept it by tyranny and enslavement and fear.

O, this all does make sense....
 

OGKnickfan

Enlightened
God is not an ego, not a man in the sky. As such, God cares not what we call IT, whether we join this or that group or whatever.

God has unbounded compassion, which is evident to all who are witnesses to IT's gracious provision of life, food, water, etc., to all beings. Except for the most enlightened of beings, we cannot even comprehend, let alone practice, this compassion.

And, if there is a lake of fire, God must be there. If there is a grave for all those that do not use empty words, in spite of the love they might have in their hearts for the divine [as they see it], God must also be there. As God is supreme and limitless, God must be ALL.

"How can The one supreme consciousness, which, without effort, rules the living and the inert and is all-pervasive, be other than I? As the rays of the sun differ not from the sun, so matter does not differ from God." -The Avadhuta Gita


 
God is not an ego, not a man in the sky. As such, God cares not what we call IT, whether we join this or that group or whatever.

God has unbounded compassion, which is evident to all who are witnesses to IT's gracious provision of life, food, water, etc., to all beings. Except for the most enlightened of beings, we cannot even comprehend, let alone practice, this compassion.

And, if there is a lake of fire, God must be there. If there is a grave for all those that do not use empty words, in spite of the love they might have in their hearts for the divine [as they see it], God must also be there. As God is supreme and limitless, God must be ALL.

"How can The one supreme consciousness, which, without effort, rules the living and the inert and is all-pervasive, be other than I? As the rays of the sun differ not from the sun, so matter does not differ from God." -The Avadhuta Gita



Not according to the bible. He says Jehovah is his name, and his name it shall be forever. I know he is real, because what he says will happen, does. The Watchtower being the worlds most read mag is just proof in our day.
 

OGKnickfan

Enlightened
Not according to the bible. He says Jehovah is his name, and his name it shall be forever. I know he is real, because what he says will happen, does. The Watchtower being the worlds most read mag is just proof in our day.

What you believe in is an idea; and, though holy men have tried to contain the supreme in idea [for our benefit], it is not possible. They know this, but must use words in working to reach us. This was my point. God is all, limitless, unrestricted by "words of the mouth."

Proverbs 18

4 The words of the mouth are deep waters,
but the fountain of wisdom is a rushing stream.


To presume to have spiritual authority, even over oneself, is to be in error. This is written of in all the major religions and their holy books. However, most of the various religious groups [including the JWs] pridefully judge the salvation of others, as well as their own, essentially working to usurp God's power, which, though they try, is impossible.

Proverbs 18

12
Before a downfall the heart is haughty,
but humility comes before honor.

People do a lot of things, mindlessly. If they read the watchtower, many likely do so mindlessly. How does the watchtower make them peaceful, compassionate or loving [which was the essence of Christ's message]? This is what you should be asking yourself.

And it is the Gospels and teachings of the apostles that were meant to reach the people, not a magazine [written somewhere in Brooklyn].

1 John 3


14 We know that we have passed from death to life,
because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death.

16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us.
And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters.


18 Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.



Conclusion: Love and wordless communion and wisdom is the way. Words and selfish pride [the individual's, as part of the organization, and vice versa] are not the way.

"When to all outward appearances men give us no credit,
when they do not think well of us,
then we are more inclined to seek God (Who sees our hearts)."
-Thomas a Kempis, The Imitation of Christ
 
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Og, I respect ur position, and what you stand for, but you sit there with a very hypocritical stance saying people read the watchtower mindlessly, and ur philosophocal viewpoints, are quite unfounded, when speaking on the bible. Why? Because the bible has its own theme, its spelled out for you by its author, and what you do is deviate from the sound, cohesive teachings of it, and put ur own spin on it. Which is why you lack biblical understanding.

And the nerve of you to sit behind your pc/phone and say everyone who reads the watchtower is mindless. But if everyone took ur position I guess that would qualify as growth and understanding? Knock it off. You are not that bright, nor noble. I base my faith on a higher being, someone I believe is loving and responsible for all things relevant concerning life. His way, is way better than yours. He does not have his people running around mindlessly, in fact, Jw are some of the smartest people in the world.


Here is what it is, like it or not. Math 24:14
And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

The only people on earth that know what the Kingdom message truly is, are JW. The Watchtower is the worlds most read magazine in the WORLD! The message in that magazine coincides exactly with what Jesus preached, which would be exactly what Jehovah would want humans to know. Thr work is getting done, despite hate and heavy opposition, and it does not hinge on imperfevt human philosophy, but truth! real truth, unlike your philosophical rhetoric you THINK is true.



You do not provide what the watchtower society does, because you and your views are not backed by God. Clearly, JWS are, because there has never in human history been such a thorough worldwide preaching of truth. And Jesus said it would happen thousands of years ago.


You read mat 28:14 and only a fool or hater could say its not happening. You can scoff, say we're mindless, stupid, etc... But all we have to do is look around and we can see the prophecies unfolding around us. And there is nothing anyone can do to stop it....
 

OGKnickfan

Enlightened
Og, I respect ur position, and what you stand for, but you sit there with a very hypocritical stance saying people read the watchtower mindlessly, and ur philosophocal viewpoints, are quite unfounded, when speaking on the bible. Why? Because the bible has its own theme, its spelled out for you by its author, and what you do is deviate from the sound, cohesive teachings of it, and put ur own spin on it. Which is why you lack biblical understanding.

And the nerve of you to sit behind your pc/phone and say everyone who reads the watchtower is mindless. But if everyone took ur position I guess that would qualify as growth and understanding? Knock it off. You are not that bright, nor noble. I base my faith on a higher being, someone I believe is loving and responsible for all things relevant concerning life. His way, is way better than yours. He does not have his people running around mindlessly, in fact, Jw are some of the smartest people in the world.


Here is what it is, like it or not. Math 24:14
And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

The only people on earth that know what the Kingdom message truly is, are JW. The Watchtower is the worlds most read magazine in the WORLD! The message in that magazine coincides exactly with what Jesus preached, which would be exactly what Jehovah would want humans to know. Thr work is getting done, despite hate and heavy opposition, and it does not hinge on imperfevt human philosophy, but truth! real truth, unlike your philosophical rhetoric you THINK is true.



You do not provide what the watchtower society does, because you and your views are not backed by God. Clearly, JWS are, because there has never in human history been such a thorough worldwide preaching of truth. And Jesus said it would happen thousands of years ago.


You read mat 28:14 and only a fool or hater could say its not happening. You can scoff, say we're mindless, stupid, etc... But all we have to do is look around and we can see the prophecies unfolding around us. And there is nothing anyone can do to stop it....

In the way of Christ...

I did not call you or your organization stupid or mindless. I think no such thing. I said that people who receive magazines (something you expressed having great pride in) likely read them mindlessly. I was thinking of the word "most," when I wrote the line you refer to, and I will change it to reflect what I was actually thinking.

Why is this my impression? Because it's what people do, with many publications and not just the watchtower: when they do read, they tend not to understand what they read; and so, I was questioning the significance of having lots of people "read" a magazine [period].

As for my biblical understanding, we sometimes tend to miss the forest (the fundamental reasons for something) for the trees (a handful of rules, e.g., using the name Jehovah, which does not necessarily mean one understands anything).

First consider the overall message of the bible, then consider the individual components, and you're getting somewhere. The overall message of the bible, especially that of the gospels and the epistles is one of redemption. The individual components are love, compassion, humility and [most of all] peace.

I suggest that your organization lacks a fundamental understanding of the bible and its components. Because of this, its members live in the mind and body (all of which are created in this world), instead of in the heart. Instead of love and compassion, which moved Jesus to violate all sorts of Jewish laws, most JWs I have met love in spite of the organization and its focus on rules, not because of it.

And please look at the scripture I posted and tell me whether your organization is compatible with Apostle John's call for loving with actions and truth, rather than with words (1 John 3:18). It is only through love, and not words, that our goodness can be proven true, as the supreme is not the result of words.

And again, the Supreme is in all, otherwise It would not be supreme. Nothing we say, as individuals, can change the fact that all has and will continue to belong to It, in all hells, earths or heavens. Surely, your organization cannot contain the supreme. It is everywhere, right now, as it always has been.

PEACE & LOVE to all
 
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LJ4ptplay

Starter
Here is what it is, like it or not. Math 24:14
And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.


"All the inhabited earth". Clearly not all of the inhabited earth is being reached by JWs. You still have a long way to go before you can claim this prophecy fulfilled.
 
"All the inhabited earth". Clearly not all of the inhabited earth is being reached by JWs. You still have a long way to go before you can claim this prophecy fulfilled.

Not really. Do ur research. We translate in just abt every known language on earth. Time is almost up.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
Not really. Do ur research. We translate in just abt every known language on earth. Time is almost up.

Language doesn't mean all the inhabited earth. I'm sure there are thousands of communites, totalling millions of people, in practically every country of the world, that have never heard of JWs, or even Jesus Christ for that matter. I can probably point to hundreds of communites in India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Botswana, Myanmar, China, Japan, Columbia, Brazil, Mongolia, Uzbekistan, Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, etc, etc, etc...

What happens to those people? Do they get murdered by god simply because they live in a part of the world that is remote or doesn't practice christianity? Rather unfair. Is posting a JW pamphlet on a lampost in Tehran, Iran good enough? Does god say, "alright, all of Iran is covered, anybody that didn't happen to read the pamphlet while walking by, or doesn't live in Tehran, will be murdered."?

And what about the billions of people that have already died that never got the chance to learn about JWs because it took you guys too long to get there?

And doesn't this whole process seem a little inefficient for an all powerful, all knowing, being? A group of people printing out flyers and going from door to door? All those people that never had or never will get the chance to know the way god intended, will parish because they were too slow or didn't have the ability to reach them.

I mean, wouldn't god know this? Some people are immediately stand-offish when somebody comes to their personal space. I hang up the phone on telemarketers. Sometimes people don't bother answering their door because they don't want to be disturbed. What happens if the flyer left gets blown away by the wind. That person gets murdered for that?

None of this makes any sense or follows any sort of logic. Certainly not the logic of an all-knowing, powerful being that loved everybody and really didn't want to kill everybody he just wanted them to worship him.
 

OGKnickfan

Enlightened
To conclude my posts on this thread, I'll say that I wish you all the best, whether you're an atheist or a JW or anything else. Bitterness and pride are our enemies, not any other: be it an individual, a group or a mysterious being (e.g., Satan).

This applies to atheists as much as it does to religious groups, because atheists just as often get angry, for whatever reason, with perceived enemies (e.g., religious people), in addition to looking down their noses at others.

There is great pride and building of ego in individuality and exclusive membership and knowledge. Don't be ashamed to know nothing and be One.
 
Language doesn't mean all the inhabited earth. I'm sure there are thousands of communites, totalling millions of people, in practically every country of the world, that have never heard of JWs, or even Jesus Christ for that matter. I can probably point to hundreds of communites in India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Botswana, Myanmar, China, Japan, Columbia, Brazil, Mongolia, Uzbekistan, Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, etc, etc, etc...

What happens to those people? Do they get murdered by god simply because they live in a part of the world that is remote or doesn't practice christianity? Rather unfair. Is posting a JW pamphlet on a lampost in Tehran, Iran good enough? Does god say, "alright, all of Iran is covered, anybody that didn't happen to read the pamphlet while walking by, or doesn't live in Tehran, will be murdered."?

And what about the billions of people that have already died that never got the chance to learn about JWs because it took you guys too long to get there?

And doesn't this whole process seem a little inefficient for an all powerful, all knowing, being? A group of people printing out flyers and going from door to door? All those people that never had or never will get the chance to know the way god intended, will parish because they were too slow or didn't have the ability to reach them.

I mean, wouldn't god know this? Some people are immediately stand-offish when somebody comes to their personal space. I hang up the phone on telemarketers. Sometimes people don't bother answering their door because they don't want to be disturbed. What happens if the flyer left gets blown away by the wind. That person gets murdered for that?

None of this makes any sense or follows any sort of logic. Certainly not the logic of an all-knowing, powerful being that loved everybody and really didn't want to kill everybody he just wanted them to worship him.

Jehovah is a just and fair God. He will give ample opportunity for all to learn the truth, simply because he wants NO ONE to perish. In places where we are banned, we take measures to reach people ANYWAYS RISKING OUR LIVES.

the internet is available in places like that still and Watchtower.org and JW.org are websites that can be accessed freely by all. There is no man made system that can prevent the work from being done. Governments, laws, ignorance, death. Nothing.

And to answer your question abt thise who died before true worship was restored, have you not heard? There will be a ressurection of the righteous AND UNRIGHTEOUS.

Unrighteous people are those who did not have the opportunity whether it be geographically, or otherwise to properly learn about Jehovah.

Only wicked people, meaning people who ignore the opportunity to come to God, wont be ressurected. And no human can read a persons heart to know whether they are wicked. Gods job only. Is a person who decides to pretend they are not home when witnesses come to their door being unrighteous, or wicked? What would God think if you ignore his messenger?

Jehovah has an answer for all questions u have the ressurection being the biggest. That solves all ur geographical and dark ages, etc examples. LISTEN WELL, THEY ARE COMING BACK TO LIFE. Just so they can GET TO KNOW GOD.

You and I have a wonderful hope of never knowing death... because we live in the time of the very end. If one dies before the great tribulation, the ressurection hope for that one is valid. So say u have a family member who heard of Jw, but they were rooted so deeply in their faith, they rejected it. Jehovah then will consider that persons heart to determine whether they should recieve the ressurection. The kind of God he is suggests he will look for ANY excuse to bring a person back, even if they rejected his message.
Adolf Hitler could he recieving this reward. This is why Jehovah is just and loving.

However, if you are around when the great tribulation breaks out, and u have rejected his message, it will be like Noahs day, only the righteous will he preserved. Why? Because those who survive will be around for new instruction from God on how to deal with those who will he ressurected soon after. They will need to be taught Jehovahs ways.

Jehovah has a lot of great things planned for humanity.
 
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