what does the bible really teach?

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
Are Jehovah's Witnesses being brainwashed?

Q: Why is it that the Watchtower.org website does not give Jehovah's Witnesses access to ALL of their previous publications, if they are in the Jehovah's Witness religion?

A: Jehovah's Witnesses are being brainwashed by the
Watchtower Bible & Tract Society.


Watchtower June 15, 1956
"THE BRAINS OF MILLIONS NEED A WASHING."


Watchtower March 15, 1973
"The shape our brains are in, they need a good washing."

AWAKE! OCTOBER 22, 1986
"My father said that the Witnesses would brainwash me, to which I replied that MY BRAIN NEEDED A GOOD WASHING."
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
The title to this was supposed to be "Alleged 'End-of-World' Dates". For some unknown reason, the post was submitted before I finished the title, and there is now no way to edit the title.

I don't agree with the teachings of the International Bible Students and Charles Taze Russell, but you have a right to your beliefs.
 
Watchtower doctrine is essentially antagonistic in nature: the world is against you, you are against the world, tradition and non-tradition cannot co-exist, everything has to be in a neat little box, black-and-white, or the supreme is unhappy. Man, with his rules, as Paul stated to the Hebrews, created these, not God, who is beyond all humanly-conceived limitations.
Well, again, your problem that should be God's word, not the Watchtower. Everything JW's stand or do not stand for is based upon sound biblical reasoning. God has rules. He had rules when Adam ate from the tree, he has rules today. And yes, everything does have to be in a neat little box or Jehovah is not happy. He is a God of order, not disorder. Nothing in the bible is man made. This is God's book, not man's. And Jehovah has a right to be worshipped according to his will, not ours. Sorry you have an issue with that.



Because of this theme in the watchtower's views of the world and itself, I think you are incorrectly assuming that I am trying to make your eyes bug out. On the contrary, I have recently (over the year and a half) been reading the bible, after many years of not doing so, and continue finding scriptures that conflict with what I learned from the watchtower. Since you are a baptized, adult witness, I asked you about what I found.
It's good that you are reading the bible, but unless you read it with it's theme in mind, and not yours, which It appears you are not doing, you will always have flaws in your reasoning. And it's not just with the bible, it's with any book. You can say the cat in the hat is about the Green Bay- Steelers superbowl, but be prepared to be laughed at if you say it to others.

If you keep the theme in mind, I'm sure those contradictions wil slowly desipate.

As for trinity doctrine, versus unitary doctrine, I care for neither one. I was simply interested in how your organization explains what I feel points at a trinity: Jesus (the son), The holy spirit (comforter Jesus will send) and the father.
Fair enough. The information provided puts the beats on a trinity belief. Especialliy to logically thinking folks.

Finally, I should say that I am not a Christian: I have, as a result, no interest in doctrine. I love Jesus, because he clearly loves and cares about all. The power of his love is such that even someone like me, who believes we all have the capacity to reach his heights, cannot help but hold him dear.
Well this is why you should never say you are more Christian than true Christians. Because unlike you, Jesus did care about doctrine. That is what he taught. The true doctrine of God. And this is what a true follower of Christ bases their life around. They live it. You cannot be more Christian than those actually doing what Jesus taught, can you?


I think that, when people focus on doctrine and organizations, they lose out on innocent love, falling for the seductions of the physical world, which, whether one expects these promised delights in this world or on some paradise earth, deny the suffering that Jesus called men to submit themselves to. Says Paul.
2 tim 4 3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, whereas they will be turned aside to false stories

Healthful teaching is doctrine. Those who have other desires, or agendas will turn to teachings that tickle their ears, and turn away from truth. Truth is concrete. 100 %. Anything short is unhealthful teaching. This is why I respect your philosophical position, but will have to say that according to the bible, your thoughts fall into 'tickled ears' faction, far from the truth.

And in case there is an awake or watchtower that claims Paul was here asking for fleshly salvation, on a paradise Earth. Here is what he means by "resurrection from the dead," as expressed in his letter to the Ephesians.

Ephesians 2
  • 1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions?it is by grace you have been saved.
This is talking about being dead in your transgressions if you continue to live the ways of the world, which ran by its ruler satan, is in direct oposition to God's will. That is why Pau says 'used to live' Once a person repents, wich means turns back from doing bad, to doing good, you know, followoing God's rule, then they are saved by the grace of God. Their transgressions, Jehovah no longer holds agains them. That has nothing to do with the actual resurrection itself.


My only issue with the organization is its treatment of members: four or five boring meetings a week, treating as spiritually weak those that associate with non-believers, shunning people who choose to leave and controlling, down to a person's hygiene and dress, members' personal lives.

Jesus wanted better for his followers, of which I consider witnesses and other Christians to be equal members. Again, my objections are not toward witnesses but with governing body people who choose not to wash the feet of the world, as Jesus washed the feet of his apostles


Jesus regularly met with his disciples for meetings and instruction. Also, consider the fact that the world hates God's people. These meetings are essential for not only learning, but fellowship with like ones. Bonding. Nothing at all wrong with that. And improper association with those outside of the faith can stray one away from faith. Birds of a feather... So it is sound biblical warning to not be unevenly yolked with non believers. The organization does not control our dress. We are advised to be at our best appearance our circumstances allow, without being too gaudy or flashy to offend those of our brothers with less, or the world. Nothing wrong with being clean and neat. I'm sure Jesus did the same in his ministry.

Now as far as disfellowshiping?

EXPELLING​
The judicial excommunication, or disfellowshipping, of delinquents from membership and association in a community or organization. With religious societies it is a principle and a right inherent in them and is analogous to the powers of capital punishment, banishment, and exclusion from membership that are exercised by political and municipal bodies. In the congregation of God it is exercised to maintain the purity of the organization doctrinally and morally. The exercise of this power is necessary to the continued existence of the organization and particularly so the Christian congregation. The congregation must remain clean and maintain God?s favor in order to be used by him and to represent him. Otherwise, God would expel or cut off the entire congregation.?Re 2:5; 1Co 5:5, 6.​

Jehovah?s Action. Jehovah God took expelling, or disfellowshipping, action in numerous instances. He sentenced Adam to death and drove him and his wife Eve out of the garden of Eden. (Ge 3:19, 23, 24) Cain was banished and became a wanderer and a fugitive in the earth. (Ge 4:11, 14, 16) The angels that sinned were thrown into Tartarus, a condition of dense darkness in which they are reserved for judgment. (2Pe 2:4) Twenty-three thousand fornicators were cut off from Israel in one day. (1Co 10:8) Achan was put to death at Jehovah?s command for stealing that which was devoted to Jehovah. (Jos 7:15, 20, 21, 25) Korah the Levite along with Dathan and Abiram of the tribe of Reuben were cut off for rebellion, and Miriam was stricken with leprosy and eventually might have died in that condition if Moses had not pleaded for her. As it was, she was expelled from the camp of Israel under quarantine seven days.?Nu 16:27, 32, 33, 35; 12:10, 13-15.

Under the Mosaic Law. For serious or deliberate violations of God?s law given through Moses a person could be cut off, that is, put to death. (Le 7:27; Nu 15:30, 31) Apostasy, idolatry, adultery, eating blood, and murder were among the offenses carrying this penalty.?De 13:12-18; Le 20:10; 17:14; Nu 35:31.

Under the Law, for the penalty of cutting off to be carried out, evidence had to be established at the mouth of at least two witnesses. (De 19:15) These witnesses were required to be the first to stone the guilty one. (De 17:7) This would demonstrate their zeal for God?s law and the purity of the congregation of Israel and would also be a deterrent to false, careless, or hasty testimony.​

The​
Sanhedrin and synagogues. During Jesus? earthly ministry the synagogues served as courts for trying violators of Jewish law. The Sanhedrin was the highest court. Under Roman rule the Jews did not have the latitude of authority that they had enjoyed under theocratic government. Even when the Sanhedrin judged someone deserving of death, they could not always administer the death penalty, because of restrictions by the Romans.

The Jewish synagogues had a system of excommunication, or
disfellowshipping, that had three steps or three names. The first step was the penalty of nid?duy′, which was for a relatively short time, initially only 30 days. A person under this penalty was prohibited from enjoying certain privileges. He could go to the temple, but there he was restricted in certain ways, and all besides his own family were commanded to stay at a distance of 4 cubits (c. 2 m; 6 ft) from him. The second step was che′rem, meaning something devoted to God or banned. This was a more severe judgment. The offender could not teach or be taught in the company of others, nor could he perform any commercial transactions beyond purchasing the necessities of life. However, he was not altogether cast out of the Jewish organization, and there was a chance for him to come back. Finally, there was sham?mat?ta?′, an entire cutting off from the congregation. Some believe the last two forms of excommunication were undistinguishable from each other.

One who was cast out as wicked, cut off entirely, would be considered worthy of death, though the Jews might not have the authority to execute such a one. Nevertheless, the form of cutting off they did employ was a very powerful weapon in the Jewish community. Jesus foretold that his followers would be expelled from the synagogues. (Joh 16:2) Fear of being expelled, or ?unchurched,? kept some of the Jews, even the rulers, from confessing Jesus. (Joh 9:22, ftn; 12:42) An example of such action by the synagogue was the case of the healed blind man who spoke favorably of Jesus.?Joh 9:34.

During the time of his earthly ministry, Jesus gave instructions as to the procedure to follow if a serious sin was committed against a person and yet the sin was of such a nature that, if properly settled, it did not need to involve the Jewish congregation. (Mt 18:15-17) He encouraged earnest effort to help the wrongdoer, while also safeguarding that congregation against persistent sinners. The only congregation of God in existence then was the congregation of Israel. ?Speaking to the congregation? did not mean that the entire nation or even all the Jews in a given community sat in judgment on the offender. There were older men of the Jews that were charged with this responsibility. (Mt 5:22) Offenders who refused to listen even to these responsible ones were to be viewed ?just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector,? association with whom was shunned by the Jews.?Compare Ac 10:28.

Christian Congregation. Based on the principles of the Hebrew Scriptures, the Christian Greek Scriptures by command and precedent authorize expulsion, or disfellowshipping, from the Christian congregation. By exercising this God-given authority, the congregation keeps itself clean and in good standing before God. The apostle Paul, with the authority vested in him, ordered the expulsion of an incestuous fornicator who had taken his father?s wife. (1Co 5:5, 11, 13) He also exercised disfellowshipping authority against Hymenaeus and Alexander. (1Ti 1:19, 20) Diotrephes, however, was apparently trying to exercise disfellowshipping action wrongly.?3Jo 9, 10.

Some of the offenses that could merit disfellowshipping from the Christian congregation are fornication, adultery, homosexuality, greed, extortion, thievery, lying, drunkenness, reviling, spiritism, murder, idolatry, apostasy, and the causing of divisions in the congregation. (1Co 5:9-13; 6:9, 10; Tit 3:10, 11; Re 21:8) Mercifully, one promoting a sect is warned a first and a second time before such disfellowshipping action is taken against him. In the Christian congregation, the principle enunciated in the Law applies, namely, that two or three witnesses must establish evidence against the accused one. (1Ti 5:19) Those who have been convicted of a practice of sin are reproved Scripturally before the ?onlookers,? for example, those who testified concerning the sinful conduct, so that they too may all have a healthy fear of such sin.?1Ti 5:20; see REPROOF.

The Christian congregation is also admonished by Scripture to stop socializing with those who are disorderly and not walking correctly but who are not deemed deserving of complete expulsion. Paul wrote the Thessalonian congregation concerning such: ?Stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed. And yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother.??2Th 3:6, 11, 13-15.
However, regarding any who were Christians but later repudiated the Christian congregation or were expelled from it, the apostle Paul commanded: ?Quit mixing in company with? such a one; and the apostle John wrote: ?Never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him.??1Co 5:11; 2Jo 9, 10.

Those who have been expelled may be received back into the congregation if they manifest sincere repentance. (2Co 2:5-8) This also is a protection to the congregation, preventing it from being overreached by Satan in swinging from condoning wrongdoing to the other extreme, becoming harsh and unforgiving.?2Co 2:10, 11.​
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
Does the Watchtower have racist quotes?

Zion's Watchtower 1900
"Though once as black as charcoal, the Rev. Mr. Draper is now white. His people say that his color was changed in answer to prayer."

Zion's Watchtower 1902
"The secret of the greater intelligence and aptitude of the Caucasian undoubtedly in great measure is to be attributed to the commingling of blood amongst its various branches"

The Golden Age(now known as the Awake!) July 24, 1929
"There is no servant in the world as good as a good Colored servant, and the joy that he gets from rendering faithful service is one of the purest joys there is in the world."

Watchtower, February 1, 1952
"So if the Bible does not instruct Christians to fight slavery it would not sanction them to battle the lesser evil of segregation, at the expense of gospel-preaching.
Really, our colored brothers have great cause for rejoicing. Their race is meek and teachable, and from it comes a high percentage of the theocratic increase."

Yearbook 1934:
"there is a proverb concerning the city of New York which says: The Jews own it, the Irish Catholics rule it, and the Americans pay the bills.

The present government of Germany has declared
emphatically
against Big Business oppressors and in opposition to the wrongful religious influence in the political affairs of the nations. Such is exactly our position.

Instead of being against the principles advocated by the government of Germany, we stand squarely for such principles

Let us remind the government and the people of Germany, that it was the League of Nations compact that laid upon the shoulders of the German people the great unjust and unbearable burdens."
 

OGKnickfan

Enlightened
Well, again, your problem that should be God's word, not the Watchtower. Everything JW's stand or do not stand for is based upon sound biblical reasoning. God has rules. He had rules when Adam ate from the tree, he has rules today. And yes, everything does have to be in a neat little box or Jehovah is not happy. He is a God of order, not disorder. Nothing in the bible is man made. This is God's book, not man's. And Jehovah has a right to be worshipped according to his will, not ours. Sorry you have an issue with that.

It's good that you are reading the bible, but unless you read it with it's theme in mind, and not yours, which It appears you are not doing, you will always have flaws in your reasoning. And it's not just with the bible, it's with any book. You can say the cat in the hat is about the Green Bay- Steelers superbowl, but be prepared to be laughed at if you say it to others.

If you keep the theme in mind, I'm sure those contradictions wil slowly desipate.

Fair enough. The information provided puts the beats on a trinity belief. Especialliy to logically thinking folks.

Well this is why you should never say you are more Christian than true Christians. Because unlike you, Jesus did care about doctrine. That is what he taught. The true doctrine of God. And this is what a true follower of Christ bases their life around. They live it. You cannot be more Christian than those actually doing what Jesus taught, can you?


2 tim 4 3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, whereas they will be turned aside to false stories

Healthful teaching is doctrine. Those who have other desires, or agendas will turn to teachings that tickle their ears, and turn away from truth. Truth is concrete. 100 %. Anything short is unhealthful teaching. This is why I respect your philosophical position, but will have to say that according to the bible, your thoughts fall into 'tickled ears' faction, far from the truth.

[/list]This is talking about being dead in your transgressions if you continue to live the ways of the world, which ran by its ruler satan, is in direct oposition to God's will. That is why Pau says 'used to live' Once a person repents, wich means turns back from doing bad, to doing good, you know, followoing God's rule, then they are saved by the grace of God. Their transgressions, Jehovah no longer holds agains them. That has nothing to do with the actual resurrection itself.





Jesus regularly met with his disciples for meetings and instruction. Also, consider the fact that the world hates God's people. These meetings are essential for not only learning, but fellowship with like ones. Bonding. Nothing at all wrong with that. And improper association with those outside of the faith can stray one away from faith. Birds of a feather... So it is sound biblical warning to not be unevenly yolked with non believers. The organization does not control our dress. We are advised to be at our best appearance our circumstances allow, without being too gaudy or flashy to offend those of our brothers with less, or the world. Nothing wrong with being clean and neat. I'm sure Jesus did the same in his ministry.

Now as far as disfellowshiping?

EXPELLING​
The judicial excommunication, or disfellowshipping, of delinquents from membership and association in a community or organization. With religious societies it is a principle and a right inherent in them and is analogous to the powers of capital punishment, banishment, and exclusion from membership that are exercised by political and municipal bodies. In the congregation of God it is exercised to maintain the purity of the organization doctrinally and morally. The exercise of this power is necessary to the continued existence of the organization and particularly so the Christian congregation. The congregation must remain clean and maintain God?s favor in order to be used by him and to represent him. Otherwise, God would expel or cut off the entire congregation.?Re 2:5; 1Co 5:5, 6.​

Jehovah?s Action. Jehovah God took expelling, or disfellowshipping, action in numerous instances. He sentenced Adam to death and drove him and his wife Eve out of the garden of Eden. (Ge 3:19, 23, 24) Cain was banished and became a wanderer and a fugitive in the earth. (Ge 4:11, 14, 16) The angels that sinned were thrown into Tartarus, a condition of dense darkness in which they are reserved for judgment. (2Pe 2:4) Twenty-three thousand fornicators were cut off from Israel in one day. (1Co 10:8) Achan was put to death at Jehovah?s command for stealing that which was devoted to Jehovah. (Jos 7:15, 20, 21, 25) Korah the Levite along with Dathan and Abiram of the tribe of Reuben were cut off for rebellion, and Miriam was stricken with leprosy and eventually might have died in that condition if Moses had not pleaded for her. As it was, she was expelled from the camp of Israel under quarantine seven days.?Nu 16:27, 32, 33, 35; 12:10, 13-15.

Under the Mosaic Law. For serious or deliberate violations of God?s law given through Moses a person could be cut off, that is, put to death. (Le 7:27; Nu 15:30, 31) Apostasy, idolatry, adultery, eating blood, and murder were among the offenses carrying this penalty.?De 13:12-18; Le 20:10; 17:14; Nu 35:31.

Under the Law, for the penalty of cutting off to be carried out, evidence had to be established at the mouth of at least two witnesses. (De 19:15) These witnesses were required to be the first to stone the guilty one. (De 17:7) This would demonstrate their zeal for God?s law and the purity of the congregation of Israel and would also be a deterrent to false, careless, or hasty testimony.​

The​
Sanhedrin and synagogues. During Jesus? earthly ministry the synagogues served as courts for trying violators of Jewish law. The Sanhedrin was the highest court. Under Roman rule the Jews did not have the latitude of authority that they had enjoyed under theocratic government. Even when the Sanhedrin judged someone deserving of death, they could not always administer the death penalty, because of restrictions by the Romans.

The Jewish synagogues had a system of excommunication, or
disfellowshipping, that had three steps or three names. The first step was the penalty of nid?duy′, which was for a relatively short time, initially only 30 days. A person under this penalty was prohibited from enjoying certain privileges. He could go to the temple, but there he was restricted in certain ways, and all besides his own family were commanded to stay at a distance of 4 cubits (c. 2 m; 6 ft) from him. The second step was che′rem, meaning something devoted to God or banned. This was a more severe judgment. The offender could not teach or be taught in the company of others, nor could he perform any commercial transactions beyond purchasing the necessities of life. However, he was not altogether cast out of the Jewish organization, and there was a chance for him to come back. Finally, there was sham?mat?ta?′, an entire cutting off from the congregation. Some believe the last two forms of excommunication were undistinguishable from each other.

One who was cast out as wicked, cut off entirely, would be considered worthy of death, though the Jews might not have the authority to execute such a one. Nevertheless, the form of cutting off they did employ was a very powerful weapon in the Jewish community. Jesus foretold that his followers would be expelled from the synagogues. (Joh 16:2) Fear of being expelled, or ?unchurched,? kept some of the Jews, even the rulers, from confessing Jesus. (Joh 9:22, ftn; 12:42) An example of such action by the synagogue was the case of the healed blind man who spoke favorably of Jesus.?Joh 9:34.

During the time of his earthly ministry, Jesus gave instructions as to the procedure to follow if a serious sin was committed against a person and yet the sin was of such a nature that, if properly settled, it did not need to involve the Jewish congregation. (Mt 18:15-17) He encouraged earnest effort to help the wrongdoer, while also safeguarding that congregation against persistent sinners. The only congregation of God in existence then was the congregation of Israel. ?Speaking to the congregation? did not mean that the entire nation or even all the Jews in a given community sat in judgment on the offender. There were older men of the Jews that were charged with this responsibility. (Mt 5:22) Offenders who refused to listen even to these responsible ones were to be viewed ?just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector,? association with whom was shunned by the Jews.?Compare Ac 10:28.

Christian Congregation. Based on the principles of the Hebrew Scriptures, the Christian Greek Scriptures by command and precedent authorize expulsion, or disfellowshipping, from the Christian congregation. By exercising this God-given authority, the congregation keeps itself clean and in good standing before God. The apostle Paul, with the authority vested in him, ordered the expulsion of an incestuous fornicator who had taken his father?s wife. (1Co 5:5, 11, 13) He also exercised disfellowshipping authority against Hymenaeus and Alexander. (1Ti 1:19, 20) Diotrephes, however, was apparently trying to exercise disfellowshipping action wrongly.?3Jo 9, 10.

Some of the offenses that could merit disfellowshipping from the Christian congregation are fornication, adultery, homosexuality, greed, extortion, thievery, lying, drunkenness, reviling, spiritism, murder, idolatry, apostasy, and the causing of divisions in the congregation. (1Co 5:9-13; 6:9, 10; Tit 3:10, 11; Re 21:8) Mercifully, one promoting a sect is warned a first and a second time before such disfellowshipping action is taken against him. In the Christian congregation, the principle enunciated in the Law applies, namely, that two or three witnesses must establish evidence against the accused one. (1Ti 5:19) Those who have been convicted of a practice of sin are reproved Scripturally before the ?onlookers,? for example, those who testified concerning the sinful conduct, so that they too may all have a healthy fear of such sin.?1Ti 5:20; see REPROOF.

The Christian congregation is also admonished by Scripture to stop socializing with those who are disorderly and not walking correctly but who are not deemed deserving of complete expulsion. Paul wrote the Thessalonian congregation concerning such: ?Stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed. And yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother.??2Th 3:6, 11, 13-15.
However, regarding any who were Christians but later repudiated the Christian congregation or were expelled from it, the apostle Paul commanded: ?Quit mixing in company with? such a one; and the apostle John wrote: ?Never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him.??1Co 5:11; 2Jo 9, 10.

Those who have been expelled may be received back into the congregation if they manifest sincere repentance. (2Co 2:5-8) This also is a protection to the congregation, preventing it from being overreached by Satan in swinging from condoning wrongdoing to the other extreme, becoming harsh and unforgiving.?2Co 2:10, 11.​

Thanks for the reply. To be clear, I did not say that I am more Christian than "true Christians," as you stated. I was basically using hyperbole to express my feeling that most Christians have not understood Christ. I, however, am spiritual (not of any religion) and actively preach Jesus and the gospel in a spiritual way.

Other than that, as I said earlier, I am not against Witnesses and neither is the rest of the world, as far as I have been able to tell. I have worked with witnesses at almost every establishment I have been associated with.

Currently, I work with a female Witness. She is a part of the office family and is always spending time with us, after hours. I have found the same to be true with other witnesses: I have gone to movies with them, etc., in spite of WTS rules to the contrary. People love good people, no matter their religious affiliation.

When the bible mentions the world, it was speaking of the metaphorical demons of greed, hate, pride, lust, etc., with which all people, to some extent, struggle. When Paul mentions the world, he often mentions lust and materialism. This is the theme.

Most people, though they might drink or smoke (which I believe is not good for us), are not fundamentally made evil by these habits, nor do they try to force such habits on others.

And, as Jesus said, you must deny yourself, i.e., not others. Worrying about yourself, with whom you live 24-7, is the key to divine communion.

PEACE


Zion's Watchtower 1900
"Though once as black as charcoal, the Rev. Mr. Draper is now white. His people say that his color was changed in answer to prayer."

Zion's Watchtower 1902
"The secret of the greater intelligence and aptitude of the Caucasian undoubtedly in great measure is to be attributed to the commingling of blood amongst its various branches"

The Golden Age(now known as the Awake!) July 24, 1929
"There is no servant in the world as good as a good Colored servant, and the joy that he gets from rendering faithful service is one of the purest joys there is in the world."

Watchtower, February 1, 1952
"So if the Bible does not instruct Christians to fight slavery it would not sanction them to battle the lesser evil of segregation, at the expense of gospel-preaching.
Really, our colored brothers have great cause for rejoicing. Their race is meek and teachable, and from it comes a high percentage of the theocratic increase."

Yearbook 1934:
"there is a proverb concerning the city of New York which says: The Jews own it, the Irish Catholics rule it, and the Americans pay the bills.

The present government of Germany has declared
emphatically
against Big Business oppressors and in opposition to the wrongful religious influence in the political affairs of the nations. Such is exactly our position.

Instead of being against the principles advocated by the government of Germany, we stand squarely for such principles

Let us remind the government and the people of Germany, that it was the League of Nations compact that laid upon the shoulders of the German people the great unjust and unbearable burdens."

This is disturbing and embarrassing, especially since Witnesses have a large black demographic amongst their membership and faced the same tortures as Jews, in the concentration camps.

Until they condemn these words, their shadow looms over the organization, in my opinion.
 

ResLight

Rookie
Russell and Races

Zion's Watchtower 1900
"Though once as black as charcoal, the Rev. Mr. Draper is now white. His people say that his color was changed in answer to prayer."

This is a quote from "The New York World", a newspaper that was published in New York until 1931.

Zion's Watchtower 1902
"The secret of the greater intelligence and aptitude of the Caucasian undoubtedly in great measure is to be attributed to the commingling of blood amongst its various branches"

The quote is from an article entitled: "The Negro Not a Beast". It can be found online at:
http://www.mostholyfaith.com/Bible/reprints/Z1902JUL.asp#Z213:1

I am not sure what is considered to be racist in this; it appears that someone has done research but only to find quotes that could be used to make it appear to be racist, without regard to what was actually being said in context. The entire article shows that Russell was way ahead of most in his time on being anti-racist. Russell was addressing the idea that some were presenting, especially that the white race was a superior race, an idea that later became the basis of Nazism. Among other things that many Protestant preachers were preaching was the idea that the Negro was a human being, and that he is referred to as a beast of the field in the Bible. Some were claiming that the Negro did "not have a soul". Indeed, this idea was somewhat popular amongst many Protestants in Georgia when I was growing up back in the latter 1950s and early 1960s.

Russell was not condoning such a viewpoint, but he actually showed that such was not scriptural. He was trying to address the questions being put before him concerning what was being perceived as great differences between the races, and the perception that the white race was superior. His statement concerning this was:

From the Scriptural standpoint we must and do recognize all of the human family as one race, of which father Adam was the original head; a later head being Noah.
He stated:

In attempting to account for the wide differences between whites and blacks, and the lesser differences between these and the yellow, brown, and red, we are treading upon uncertain ground,--as all ground must be in which our imperfect knowledge and imperfect reasoning powers have not inspired direction from the Lord's Word. Hence it should be understood at the outstart that all that we or others can do is to guess on this subject--respecting the differences in shape of head, color of skin, shape of eyes, peculiarities of hair, the nose, lips, etc.
Thus, he admits that what he was presenting was guesses; he certainly was not laying down doctrine, nor was he speaking as a representative of an organization such the Jehovah's Witnesses, and he certainly did not present anything that could be considered racist, not unless the mere acknowledgement that there are what many perceive as differences amongst the races is itself considered to be racist.

After the quote given (which is being assumed to be racist), Russell went on to say:

It remains to be proven that the similar commingling of the various tribes of Chinese for several centuries would not equally brighten their intellects; and the same with the peoples of India and Africa.
By that statement, Russell was suggesting that if many other races did the same, that is, if they dropped their attitudes of racial separateness and intermarried with other races, that they also would benefit from such. One of my college Biology professors made a very similar kind of statement when I was in college back in the 1970s. At that time, however, I was unaware of Russell's statement concerning this.

At any rate, May our Heavenly Father be praised! Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus! -- Ephesians 1:3; 1 Peter 1:3.
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
This is a quote from "The New York World", a newspaper that was published in New York until 1931.

My entire post made no reference to Charles Taze Russell, yet you eagerly came and started defending him.

You should seriously ask yourself why is it that you are so concerned with Charles Taze Russell?

Who has been telling you that you need Charles Taze Russell's teachings in your life? Your family? A friend? An International Bible Student?

You should ask yourself why do you see flaws in anything someone posts that is negative about Russell but you don't see any flaws when someone presents something positive about him?

Why is it that everyone outside of the International Bible Students can find so many flaws in Charles Taze Russell's teachings and behavior, but you seem to feel he is infallible?

I am not sure if the International Bible Students are brainwashed like the Jehovah's Witnesses, but you need to wake up before you throw your life away for the sake of following Charles Taze Russell.

Russell has been dead for over 95 years. It's time for you to live your life.

You don't have to leave the International Bible Students, but try focussing more on the Bible itself and less on Charles Taze Russell(a man not mentioned anywhere in the Bible).
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
Knicks4lyfe is a member of a religion that fits its own description of a cult, yet he claims I have learned nothing.

The fact that you claim I've learned nothing proves you're in a cult.

It is impossible for anyone to have "learned nothing."

We all grow and learn, day by day.

But you wouldn't know anything about learning or growth, since you're in a cult that hates "independent thinking" and discourages higher education.

"Avoid Independent Thinking. 'How is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization."Watchtower Jan 15, 1983 page 22


I already tried warning you about the Watchtower cult, so when you're in your 70s, and you realize you blew your entire life worshiping the Watchtower don't say me, OGKnickfan, and LJ4PTPLAY didn't warn you.

Continue living in a box.

The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society defined the word "cult" for all
Jehovah's Witnesses and non-Witnesses to see in their February 15, 1994 edition of the Watchtower Magazine.
watchtower1.jpg


jwcult.jpg

Let's see if the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society fits its definition of a cult.

"Cult members often isolate themselves from family, friends, and even society in general."
(The Watchtower, February 15, 1994, pp. 6-7)

The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society practices shunning(ex-communication of family, friends, and former witnesses), disfellowshipping(removal of the Congregation), and the Jehovah's Witness children are discouraged from engaging in afterschool activities with "worldly" non-Witness children.

Irrefutable Evidence:

"Listen! "it is expected" that you will have no
extra-curricular activities outside of the Watchtower. Such activity is a "danger" and "worldly". Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry 1983, p. 133.

"Children should get away from disfellowshipped parents as soon as they are old enough to leave." (Watchtower, 11/15/52, p. 703. )

"If a child of someone is disfellowshipped from the Kingdom Hall, the parent is to refuse to listen to the child's reason."( Organization for Kingdom-Preaching and Disciple-Making1972, p. 173.)

"Disfellowshipped children, legally of age will be kicked out of the home." (Watchtower, 11/15/52, p. 703. )


You are reminded that involvement in after-school sports tie you down, requiring you to spend evenings and weekends playing on a school team. You are expected to be at the lectures at the Kingdom Hall. "Any recreation you take outside of school should not be with worldly youths." Watchtower, 9/1/64, p.535.

"Cheerleaders lead people into "frenzied cheering ... hero worship ... glorifying humans." School and Jehovah's Witnesses, 1983, pp.23-24. Never become a homecoming queen! This would 'set up womanhood upon a pedestal." Watchtower, 6/15/64, p.381.

"In fact, the month Of May of Mother's Day is understood to be named after Maia, a demon worshiped by the pagans. . . . "' (Awake 5/8/1956, p. 25)

"We all need to face up to the fact that Christmas and its music are not from Jehovah, the God of truth. Then what is their source? ... Satan the Devil."(WT 12/15/1983, p. 7)


"No Jehovah's Witness should want to go to college." Watchtower,9/1/75, p.543; Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock, 1977, p. 105..

"Do not pursue higher education." Watchtower 3/15/1969, p. 171

"If a JW joins another religion, an announcement is made to the congregation to stop associating with him." (WT 10/15/1986 p.31)

"If someone used to be a Jehovah's Witness, "We must hate in the truest sense, which is to regard with extreme ~ active aversion, to consider as loathsome, odious, filthy, to detest." Watchtower, 10/1/52, p.599.


"The real danger of playing chess is it's military nature, the equivalent of the maneuvers enacted by little boys with toy soldiers." Awake !, 3/22/73, pp.12-14.

Awake! 1986 october 22:
"My father said that the Witnesses would brainwash me, to which I replied that my brain needed a good washing."
 
Last edited:

ResLight

Rookie
Why Defend Russell?

My entire post made no reference to Charles Taze Russell, yet you eagerly came and started defending him.

However, a quote from Russell was misrepresented, and I responded to that quote of him.

Nevertheless, the first quote given was not written by Russell, nor by anyone affiliated with the Watch Tower, but was written by someone of The New York World, as I pointed out. I did not mention Russell when I pointed that out.

On the other hand, the second quote was written by Russell, but in some vague manner it was being claimed to have been racist, when in reality Russell was speaking against racism. In order to correct the claim, I did refer to Russell as the one who had written this, since it was indeed Russell who wrote it.

You should seriously ask yourself why is it that you are so concerned with Charles Taze Russell?

Why should I not be concerned when he is being misrepresented? Should I stand by while a man of God is being misrepresented, when it is in the realms of my ability and time to correct such misrepresentation?

Who has been telling you that you need Charles Taze Russell's teachings in your life? Your family? A friend? An International Bible Student?

I am grateful to God that Russell defended the Bible as opposed to man's self-appointed orthodoxy, and I am grateful to the Dawn Bible Students Association for pointing out Russell's teachings on the atonement, the ransom for all, and why God is permitting so much suffering. Back in 1950s and 1960s, I was greatly troubled over these matters, and although I had read in the Bible about the "ransom for all" and how God was going to bless all the nations, I still could not put all the scriptures together in any way that would make sense, since I was still greatly influenced by man's tradition. I had prayed extensively concerning this matter, and, having come into contact with the Dawn, these brothers of Christ helped me to realize that Russell was teaching similar to what I had the thoughts I was having from my own study of the Bible. I examined Russell's teachings thoroughly with the Bible, and although I had questions concerning many details, the way he tied so many scriptures together (something that I could not do on my own) led me to be convinced that, overall, he was correct concerning the "ransom for all." I have not relied wholly on his writings, but have expanded beyond what he wrote on the topic.
http://atonement.reslight.net

You should ask yourself why do you see flaws in anything someone posts that is negative about Russell but you don't see any flaws when someone presents something positive about him?

Russell was not flawless, nor do I claim that he is. I myself see flaws in many things he wrote. Indeed, my claim is that Russell himself told his associates many times that he made no claims that what he had written or spoken was totally without error, and that one should look to the Bible only as the authority. I believe any Christian writer who would not have this attitude would be putting himself in place of Christ.

Why is it that everyone outside of the International Bible Students can find so many flaws in Charles Taze Russell's teachings and behavior, but you seem to feel he is infallible?

No, it seems to be that those who find alleged flaws in Russell's writings seem to think that Russell had claimed that he was infallible. Not that there are no flaws in Russell's works, but most of what is being presented as flaws does not usually represent any flaws. The actual flaw most often is that what is being presented misrepresents what actually happened, or what Russell actually stated, or what Russell actually taught, etc.

I certainly do not think Russell was infallible, and don't know anyone in the Bible Students movement that thinks that Russell was infallible. Indeed, I have a page on one of my websites in which I present quotes from Russell in which he denied many times that he was infallible.

http://ctrussell.wordpress.com/2008/09/05/infallibility/

Nevertheless, most of the "flaws" that are being reported concerning Russell by those who oppose Russell are not real, but are made up by someone, and others repeat what has been made up, often adding their own imagination with more and more distortions and misrepresentations.

And then there are those who, usually with great over-zeal to attack the JW organization, search Russell's works solely for the purpose of isolating certain quotes that they can misuse to misrepresent Russell, often with the idea that Russell represented the JW organization, when he did not.

Would that I could correct all of the misrepresentations that are being spread, not only about Russell, but about any Christian. I have, in some forums, defended several other than Russell when I saw false statemetns being spread about them, but I just do not have time to defend all who might need to be so defended. Russell, however, it seems, has gotten to be the most represented man I have know of that is related to the Bible Students movement.

I used to have a webpage defending Martin Luther, not in that I believed that everything that Luther taught, but rather in defense against misrepresentations of him. Since I changed servers, I haven't as yet reinstalled the page on Martin Luther; I hope as well to add more pages concerning other authors.
http://bstudents.reslight.net

Likewise, I do not defend everything that Russell taught and said, but I do defend him against misrepresentations being spread about him. I do hold Russell in high esteem, since it was his works -- as well as with the aid of some others -- that led me to an understanding of why God is allowing all the suffering, evil, sects, denominations, religions, etc., and more importantly, the ransom for all.

Russell, of course, has had the greatest influence amongst the Bible Students, with some even believing that he was "the faithful and wise servant", the "Laodicean Messenger", etc. (I do not accept this).

I will be eternally grateful to God for His helps provided in men in such a way. I, as well as most other Bible Students, also hold Martin Luther and many others in high esteem, not because of agreement with, or in the sense of following all that they taught, but rather as having been used by God to bring forth certain Bible truths.

http://heraldmag.org/2006_history/06history_3.htm

http://heraldmag.org/2006_history/06history_15.htm

I am not sure if the International Bible Students are brainwashed like the Jehovah's Witnesses, but you need to wake up before you throw your life away for the sake of following Charles Taze Russell.

I follow no man except that any man may lead me to a clearer understanding of Jesus and the God of Jesus.

As to "International Bible Students", this phrase is not generally used amongst the Bible Students, since the legal entity, "International Bible Students Association" of London, became part of the Jehovah's Witnesses' organization.

Russell has been dead for over 95 years. It's time for you to live your life.

Abraham has been dead for more than 3,000 years, and yet I see no reason to relieve myself of the effects of that man, or to reject the promises that are based on what that man did and his faith.

Some make a similar argument concerning Jesus, stating that Jesus has been dead for almost 2,000 years (although I believe he is alive); I certainly would not want to negate the effect that Jesus has had in my religious study.

Russell, however, has a lesser effect in my religious study than either Abraham or Jesus. If anyone has read my writings regarding the scriptures, I believe that would become self-evident.

Nevertheless, I believe that it is self-evident to anyone who has appreciably studied Russell's works that God did indeed use him as he used Martin Luther and many others in the past 2,000 years. None of the works of Martin Luther or any other Christian writer since the apostles died are without flaw, nor are the writings of Russell without flaw.

You don't have to leave the International Bible Students, but try focussing more on the Bible itself and less on Charles Taze Russell(a man not mentioned anywhere in the Bible).

I do indeed focus on the Bible itself -- indeed, this is what Russell himself taught -- it is what a true Bible Student should do; at the same time this does not mean that I need to set back and remain silent while I see a man of God being misrepresented.

Anyone who has read my writings should know that I do not depend on Russell, or any other man or human leadership, for my conclusions.
http://reslight.net

I also note that nothing in the reply of abcd actually responds to the actual clarifications I gave, in which I showed how Russell was being misrepresented.
 
Knicks4lyfe is a member of a religion that fits its own description of a cult, yet he claims I have learned nothing.

The fact that you claim I've learned nothing proves you're in a cult.

It is impossible for anyone to have "learned nothing."

We all grow and learn, day by day.

But you wouldn't know anything about learning or growth, since you're in a cult that hates "independent thinking" and discourages higher education.

"Avoid Independent Thinking. 'How is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization."Watchtower Jan 15, 1983 page 22


I already tried warning you about the Watchtower cult, so when you're in your 70s, and you realize you blew your entire life worshiping the Watchtower don't say me, OGKnickfan, and LJ4PTPLAY didn't warn you.

Continue living in a box.

The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society defined the word "cult" for all
Jehovah's Witnesses and non-Witnesses to see in their February 15, 1994 edition of the Watchtower Magazine.
watchtower1.jpg


jwcult.jpg

Let's see if the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society fits its definition of a cult.

"Cult members often isolate themselves from family, friends, and even society in general."
(The Watchtower, February 15, 1994, pp. 6-7)

The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society practices shunning(ex-communication of family, friends, and former witnesses), disfellowshipping(removal of the Congregation), and the Jehovah's Witness children are discouraged from engaging in afterschool activities with "worldly" non-Witness children.

Irrefutable Evidence:

"Listen! "it is expected" that you will have no
extra-curricular activities outside of the Watchtower. Such activity is a "danger" and "worldly". Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry 1983, p. 133.

"Children should get away from disfellowshipped parents as soon as they are old enough to leave." (Watchtower, 11/15/52, p. 703. )

"If a child of someone is disfellowshipped from the Kingdom Hall, the parent is to refuse to listen to the child's reason."( Organization for Kingdom-Preaching and Disciple-Making1972, p. 173.)

"Disfellowshipped children, legally of age will be kicked out of the home." (Watchtower, 11/15/52, p. 703. )


You are reminded that involvement in after-school sports tie you down, requiring you to spend evenings and weekends playing on a school team. You are expected to be at the lectures at the Kingdom Hall. "Any recreation you take outside of school should not be with worldly youths." Watchtower, 9/1/64, p.535.

"Cheerleaders lead people into "frenzied cheering ... hero worship ... glorifying humans." School and Jehovah's Witnesses, 1983, pp.23-24. Never become a homecoming queen! This would 'set up womanhood upon a pedestal." Watchtower, 6/15/64, p.381.

"In fact, the month Of May of Mother's Day is understood to be named after Maia, a demon worshiped by the pagans. . . . "' (Awake 5/8/1956, p. 25)

"We all need to face up to the fact that Christmas and its music are not from Jehovah, the God of truth. Then what is their source? ... Satan the Devil."(WT 12/15/1983, p. 7)


"No Jehovah's Witness should want to go to college." Watchtower,9/1/75, p.543; Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock, 1977, p. 105..

"Do not pursue higher education." Watchtower 3/15/1969, p. 171

"If a JW joins another religion, an announcement is made to the congregation to stop associating with him." (WT 10/15/1986 p.31)

"If someone used to be a Jehovah's Witness, "We must hate in the truest sense, which is to regard with extreme ~ active aversion, to consider as loathsome, odious, filthy, to detest." Watchtower, 10/1/52, p.599.


"The real danger of playing chess is it's military nature, the equivalent of the maneuvers enacted by little boys with toy soldiers." Awake !, 3/22/73, pp.12-14.

Awake! 1986 october 22:
"My father said that the Witnesses would brainwash me, to which I replied that my brain needed a good washing."
You're not trying to help me, don't insult me by ever saying that again.

It's funny u post these things without properly understanding them, so it shows you learned nothing. Sad, but true.
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
You're not trying to help me, don't insult me by ever saying that again.

It's funny u post these things without properly understanding them, so it shows you learned nothing. Sad, but true.

Okay, then how about you answer the tough questions?

1. Why is it that the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society doesn't give Jehovah's Witnesses access to ALL of their previous publications?

2. Why is it that all of the Watchtower/Awake!/Kingdom Ministry quotes that I have presented are new to you, even though you are a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses?

3. Like I said before, the fact that you believe I have "learned nothing" proves you are in a cult. Cults are known for telling their members that they have the exclusive truth and that outsiders don't know what they're talking about. Why? To retain cult members like yourself. Enjoy being victimized by the Watchtower until you're in your 70s and it is too late to take back the time you've wasted.

4. I was trying to help, and I did warn you.

You feel insulted, because you live in a box.

But it doesn't change the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses fit their own description of a cult that the Watchtower February 15, 1994 edition uses.

5. You yourself said the end is going to come "way before" 2034, so what are you going to do if and when the Watchtower misleads the Jehovah's Witnesses for the umpteenth time? Let me guess, you'll stay brainwashed until you're in your 70s?

6. I feel sorry for you.

Jehovah's Witnesses themselves find it impossible to follow all of the rules the dictators aka Watchtower Society tells its members to abide by.

That is why you are on a non-Jehovah's Witness website that the Watchtower itself instructs Jehovah's Witnesses not to post on.

"There is no need for any individual to prepare Internet pages about Jehovah's Witnesses, our activities, or our beliefs."-Our Kingdom Ministry November 1997

Enjoy being trapped for the rest of your life.
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
However, a quote from Russell was misrepresented, and I responded to that quote of him.

I don't agree with you, but you have a right to your beliefs.

I am using quotes from the Watchtower's publications. These quotes do not come from me, so I am not misrepresenting anyone. If you believe I am, then that means you mistakenly thought I was the one who created these quotations, which I did not.

Here's the quotes:
"The 'grand gallery' measures 1874 inches long at the top, 1878 inches long at a groove cut in its sides about midway between bottom and top and 1881 inches at the bottom…Now notice how aptly these three distinct dates (1874, 1878, 1881,) are marked by the pyramid."-
Zion's Watchtower 5/1881

"Our lord, the appointed king, is now present since Oct. 1874. According to the testimony of the prophets to those who have ears to hear." (studies in the scriptures vol.4, pg.621)

"Was error found? No, they stood the test of all investigation and the jubilee argument and the "1335 days" of Daniel could not possibly be prolonged beyond the fall of 1874 or the spring of 1875 and these periods were both past."( Zion’s W.T p.3 Feb.1881)

"But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." Zion's Watch Tower 1894 July 15 p.226

"The year A.D. 1878, being the parallel of his assuming power and authority in the type, clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord...." Studies in the Scriptures - Thy Kingdom Come p.239

Watch Tower Feb. 15, 1904 p.52-53 CAN THE ETHIOPIAN CHANGE HIS SKIN?
How could all men be brought to perfection and which color of skin was the original? The answer is now provided. God can change the Ethiopian's skin in his own due time.
a negro boy of nine years, began to grow white in September 1901.
 

OGKnickfan

Enlightened
I think we all must learn from each other, but a thread titled with a rhetorical question does not lend itself to this.

People feign respect for another person's opinion, view, whatever, but they hardly ever respect what the other person has to say. They listen only long enough to find something they can springboard off of, on their way to further vanity.
 

ResLight

Rookie
Time of Trouble Began in 1914

I don't agree with you, but you have a right to your beliefs.

I am using quotes from the Watchtower's publications. These quotes do not come from me, so I am not misrepresenting anyone. If you believe I am, then that means you mistakenly thought I was the one who created these quotations, which I did not.

Here's the quotes:
"The 'grand gallery' measures 1874 inches long at the top, 1878 inches long at a groove cut in its sides about midway between bottom and top and 1881 inches at the bottom…Now notice how aptly these three distinct dates (1874, 1878, 1881,) are marked by the pyramid."-
Zion's Watchtower 5/1881

"Our lord, the appointed king, is now present since Oct. 1874. According to the testimony of the prophets to those who have ears to hear." (studies in the scriptures vol.4, pg.621)

"Was error found? No, they stood the test of all investigation and the jubilee argument and the "1335 days" of Daniel could not possibly be prolonged beyond the fall of 1874 or the spring of 1875 and these periods were both past."( Zion’s W.T p.3 Feb.1881)

"But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." Zion's Watch Tower 1894 July 15 p.226

"The year A.D. 1878, being the parallel of his assuming power and authority in the type, clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord...." Studies in the Scriptures - Thy Kingdom Come p.239

Watch Tower Feb. 15, 1904 p.52-53 CAN THE ETHIOPIAN CHANGE HIS SKIN?
How could all men be brought to perfection and which color of skin was the original? The answer is now provided. God can change the Ethiopian's skin in his own due time.
a negro boy of nine years, began to grow white in September 1901.

I can only guess at the purpose of providing the above quotes; however, thanks for posting them, although without an understanding of the study behind the quotes, I am not sure that anyone will have any genuine benefit from the quotes. I assume that the purpose is to place Russell in some kind of negative light by isolating quotes that is thought would lend to serve that purpose.

There is one quote above I need to address.

"But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." Zion's Watch Tower 1894 July 15 p.226

This expresses Russell's view in 1894, which view was based on that of Barbour. Barbour thought that the time of trouble was a period of from 1874 to 1914. Russell, in 1894, had rejected the idea that the time of trouble had begun in 1874, but still held to Barbour's view that the time of trouble was to end in 1914. Other Bible Students disagreed with this, and believed that the time of trouble was to begin, not end, in 1914. Russell at that time evidently had not examined their arguments closely.

At any rate, ten years later in 1904, Russell reversed his thought on this matter, and accepted the opinion of his colleagues that the time of trouble was to begin, not end, in 1914. Thus, from 1904 to 1914, Russell was expecting that the time of trouble was to begin, not end, in 1914; from 1914 until his death he believed that the time of trouble had begun in 1914. I agree with Russell's conclusion that that Christ returned in 1874, and the time of trouble began in 1914.

See:
1904 and Russell's Changes
http://ctr.reslight.net/?p=692
 
Last edited:

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
Looks like Knicks4lyfe finally has his Carmelo Anthony in ResLight to help him in these debates.

Reslight is a Bible Student.

The Bible students of Charles Taze Russell separated into two groups.

Most of the Bible Students joined Joseph Rutherford. Rutherford continued to use the Watchtower Magazine and eventually formed the Jehovah's Witnesses.

The Jehovah's Witnesses are a high control cult. They can't celebrate holidays, receive blood transfusions, read anything outside of the Watchtower organization, or be friends with anyone UNLESS they are trying to convert the person. They also practice shunning/ex-communication towards any member who questions the Watchtower, joins another Christian denomination, or stops attending the meetings. Jehovah's Witnesses believe everyone alive today who is not a Jehovah's Witness will be put to death by God at
Armageddon(which they have falsely predicted over 8 times and currently believe is around the corner).

The other Bible Students separated from Rutherford and currently use Charles Taze Russell's teachings.

Reslight appears to be speaking on his own faith. Doing an excellent job also.

Still can't answer the questions, huh?

P.S.-Reslight is not a Jehovah's Witness and has already said he does not agree with their "authoritarian" and "dictatorhip" form of government. In fact, Charles Taze Russell's Bible Students left Judge Rutherford's Bible Students in the 1910s.
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
Watchtower Bible & Tract Sociey's 468 Week Membership with the United Nations

Q: How long was the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society Members of the United Nations?

A:468 Weeks

The Watchtower Society claimed the United Nations was "the wild beast," but they joined the United Nations in 1992. Hypocrisy exposed.

"As we think back on the highlights of the program, we also remember the identification of the "disgusting thing" with the scarlet-colored beast of Revelation chapter 17, the United Nations."-
Kingdom Ministry 1970

"Jehovah's Witnesses declare: As for us, we do not encourage false hopes of world peace because of the changing political scene." Watchtower June 1, 1991


"The whole tendency of the League of Nations is to turn the people away from God and from Christ, and it is therefore a desolating thing, the product of Satan, and an abomination in the sight of God." So in 1919 "the disgusting thing" appeared. In time, the League gave way to


the United Nations. Jehovah's Witnesses have long exposed these human peace organizations as disgusting in God's sight."-Watchtower May 1, 1999
The wild beast represents the United Nations organization... Thus the modern-day Assyrian (nations associated with the UN) will deal Christendom a mighty blow and will crush her out of her existence.”—Isaiah's Prophecy - Light for All Mankind vol. 1, 2000, p. 153

"Recently the NGO Section has been receiving numerous inquires regarding the association of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York with the Department of Public Information (DPI). This organization applied for association with DPI in 1991 and was granted association in 1992.
http://www.un.org/wcm/content/site/dpingorelations/
This news was shocking to individual Jehovah’s Witnesses who discovered the Society’s involvement with what they viewed as the “image of the wild beast.” They immediately began to question the Watchtower Society’s intentions concerning the United Nations. In response, the Watchtower Society quickly disassociated itself from the UN in October of 2001."
http://4jehovah.org/jehovahs-witness-united-nations.php
 
Last edited:

ResLight

Rookie
Bible Students and Sectarianism

Reslight is a Bible Student.

The Bible students of Charles Taze Russell separated into two groups.

Most of the Bible Students joined Joseph Rutherford. Rutherford continued to use the Watchtower Magazine and eventually formed the Jehovah's Witnesses.

More correctly, by 1930, the majority of the earlier Bible Students had rejected Rutherford's new organization, and had rejected Rutherford's new gospel, and were conducting affairs aside from Rutherford's new organization. While the majority of the earlier Bible Students (those who had been associated in the days of Russell) rejected the new organization, Rutherford had built up a new large following that was infatuated with the "organization" concept.

Bible Students hold to the "ransom for all", which doctrine provides the basis for common fellowship as related to that doctrine. (The "ransom for all" teaching is almost the very opposite of what the Jehovah's Witnesses preach.) Russell was not the first in modern times to preach the "ransom for all", but he was probably the greatest single influential defender of that doctrine. Aside from this doctrine -- and the rejection of many doctrines that would conflict with this doctrine (trinity, inherent immortality, eternal suffering, etc.) -- one will find a wide variation amongst Bible Students. There are some who verge on sectarianism by trying to stay extremely close to what Russell said, while others may not use Russell's works at all, except for an occasional quote, etc. Most Bible Students, I believe, are somewhere between the two extremes.

My own study on sectarianism may be found at:
http://bstudents.reslight.net/sectarianism

However, I believe that belonging to Christ is of much greater importance than belonging any group or movement. While some churches exclude fellowship based on their accepted dogmas of men, I have had fine fellowship with Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians and many others. I believe the harvest of the end of the age work continues, and will end only after Satan has been abyssed, but that it is a harvest of hearts, not necessarily of physical separation from one group to another group. I do not believe, for instance, that the Bible Students movement will be sustained as a movement, as such, into the age to come anymore than I believe that any of the sectarian denominations will be allowed to continue to function into the Kingdom age. Any kind of sectarianism will not be allowed in the Kingdom. The present judgment work involved in the harvest, however, is in the hands of the angels, not in the hands of imperfect men here on the earth, although men are indeed used as instruments, workers in the harvest.

Christian love,
Ronald
 
Top