Mike D has to go

Man this is why I don't come to this forum no more..I love rady.
But why is it, That when people think the knicks should get better. You're either an idiot. Or your a racist. or a bandwagon fan ? as Fans we should be able to say whatever we want. I got into It with someone on this Forum as well just about 1 week ago. Just because I want to see the knicks Improve, and why not. I've been a knick fan for about 25 years. Season ticket holder and it should be My right as a fan to be upset or happy. At the end of the day we are all are Knicks fans who just want to see them do well. And hopefully one day Get like miami or The Lakers. We have to Stop being so sensitive. It is a fans right to either be Happy or just content. We have Improve, But we Still need to get alot better.

Like I said , I no longer post here to much because some of you are very rude. And in other forums I go to , You could voice your opinions and No one Get's upset or outta hand. Like I said at the End of the day we are all rooting for the same team...Right ?:gony:
+1

Gangs in New york lotta soft *****s signed up-Jadakiss
 

johnnyrose

Benchwarmer
Man this is why I don't come to this forum no more..I love rady.
But why is it, That when people think the knicks should get better. You're either an idiot. Or your a racist. or a bandwagon fan ? as Fans we should be able to say whatever we want. I got into It with someone on this Forum as well just about 1 week ago. Just because I want to see the knicks Improve, and why not. I've been a knick fan for about 25 years. Season ticket holder and it should be My right as a fan to be upset or happy. At the end of the day we are all are Knicks fans who just want to see them do well. And hopefully one day Get like miami or The Lakers. We have to Stop being so sensitive. It is a fans right to either be Happy or just content. We have Improve, But we Still need to get alot better.

Like I said , I no longer post here to much because some of you are very rude. And in other forums I go to , You could voice your opinions and No one Get's upset or outta hand. Like I said at the End of the day we are all rooting for the same team...Right ?:gony:
Your Right it's Cool. I can agree with that. Definitely not Bandwagon fan.Like some might say, I just have my own opinions like everyone else Like you said is our right as Fans. Good Post. alright.
.
 

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
It's amazing because the Knicks are good for the first time in nearly a decade and we still have flame wars on this forum about Starbury
 

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
It kills me to say this, but he cant coach. If a player doesn't have any offensive value he is relegated to the bench. There is no other way to explain it. The last to games we get ABSOLUTELY mauled in the paint. But he keeps two 7 footers on the bench. Why Mike Why? Is there anyone in the media even asking these questions. The least the guys can do is foul Dwight he shots 50% from the line. There are other parts of basketball that I'm sure Moz and Randolph can help this out with other than scoring. Horrible coaching...

I addressed this in another thread but here is part of what I wrote:
We are not seeing AR and Moz playing because they are extreme liabilities on the court right now. Moz gets a foul just walking onto the court and AR is out of control when he gets playing time. Mozs inability to adapt to the NBA causes him to disrupt the Knicks game; kills momentum and sends the other team to the foul line. AR is just bouncing off the walls when he gets on the court! I know Mike D concentrates on him in practice but AR is struggling. If the Knicks want to burn this season as well, they could just let AR and Moz play and try to see if they can work out their issues on the court.... Do we want that?
A player can have all sorts of talent but if they can not fit into a system or a a city stresses them out.... What good are they to us? They have more trade value than playing value for us... I'm sure Mike D would love a 7 ft player with his athleticism and talent; but if that can't be realized with the Knicks than he needs to be moved.
 
I addressed this in another thread but here is part of what I wrote:
We are not seeing AR and Moz playing because they are extreme liabilities on the court right now. Moz gets a foul just walking onto the court and AR is out of control when he gets playing time. Mozs inability to adapt to the NBA causes him to disrupt the Knicks game; kills momentum and sends the other team to the foul line. AR is just bouncing off the walls when he gets on the court! I know Mike D concentrates on him in practice but AR is struggling. If the Knicks want to burn this season as well, they could just let AR and Moz play and try to see if they can work out their issues on the court.... Do we want that?
A player can have all sorts of talent but if they can not fit into a system or a a city stresses them out.... What good are they to us? They have more trade value than playing value for us... I'm sure Mike D would love a 7 ft player with his athleticism and talent; but if that can't be realized with the Knicks than he needs to be moved.

Here is my reply in the other thread:

Extreme liabilities? Or extreme offensive liabilities? Look no one is saying Moz is the next Ewing or that AR is the next Oakley, but I'm sure they can offer this team something to help them win. But, I'm sure you Mike D fans cant/wont see this because Mike D cant see it himself.

When I look at what Jordan Hill and Milliecec (sp) are doing now compared to what they did under Mike D it's ludicrious. Again, neither is an allstar, but they are making contributions. I dont think AR and Moz upset the overall game plan. Just the offensive game plan. Wouldnt you agree?

Would you say that Turiaf also disrupts the Knicks OFFENSIVE game plan? Yet looking at yesterdays game we wouldnt have won without him. Why not utililze a players strengths instead of admonishing him for his weaknesses? Hill and Darko are getting better every game they play. I'm sure giving AR and Moz playing time would have the same affect.

I think you want to tie this playing time into Knick wins. Which I think is incorrect. The Knicks right now are beating the teams they should, but losing to the so called elite teams. These losses are basically because of defense and rebounding. Why not utilize these 7 footers to see if they can make up the difference, or at least decrease the difference? Seems logical to me.
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
Here is my reply in the other thread:

Extreme liabilities? Or extreme offensive liabilities? Look no one is saying Moz is the next Ewing or that AR is the next Oakley, but I'm sure they can offer this team something to help them win. But, I'm sure you Mike D fans cant/wont see this because Mike D cant see it himself.

When I look at what Jordan Hill and Milliecec (sp) are doing now compared to what they did under Mike D it's ludicrious. Again, neither is an allstar, but they are making contributions. I dont think AR and Moz upset the overall game plan. Just the offensive game plan. Wouldnt you agree?

Would you say that Turiaf also disrupts the Knicks OFFENSIVE game plan? Yet looking at yesterdays game we wouldnt have won without him. Why not utililze a players strengths instead of admonishing him for his weaknesses? Hill and Darko are getting better every game they play. I'm sure giving AR and Moz playing time would have the same affect.

I think you want to tie this playing time into Knick wins. Which I think is incorrect. The Knicks right now are beating the teams they should, but losing to the so called elite teams. These losses are basically because of defense and rebounding. Why not utilize these 7 footers to see if they can make up the difference, or at least decrease the difference? Seems logical to me.


Moz and AR, in my estimation are BOTH offensive and defensive liabilities. This is why they don't play. They're both extremely foul prone, which is a defensive issue. You simply can't have guys on the court that are gonna be constantly sending catz to the line. I don't blame Mike D for not giving them minutes for this reason alone.

On offense they don't play because they don't understand the flow, ie where the ball needs to move. AR is particularly bad in this area. It doesn't help that when he's in he always looks for his own shot, further killing said flow.

Both are turnover prone. Moz has a shown propensity for dropping passes that would lead to easy layins. AR is a walking turnover waiting to happen. He's an Apple turnover, sry i'm really hungry right now.

And, your wrong about Turiaf. He izn't an offensive liability at all. When he's in he moves the ball. He knows where it needs to go. He sets good screens. And when he gets a pass inside he actually catches the ball and can finish/draw a foul/both. On defense, well he's boss.. You should know this atleast-- 10 rebounds and 6 blocks yesterday.. You're wrong about all three players dude.
 
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hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
Here is my reply in the other thread:

Extreme liabilities? Or extreme offensive liabilities? Look no one is saying Moz is the next Ewing or that AR is the next Oakley, but I'm sure they can offer this team something to help them win. But, I'm sure you Mike D fans cant/wont see this because Mike D cant see it himself.

When I look at what Jordan Hill and Milliecec (sp) are doing now compared to what they did under Mike D it's ludicrious. Again, neither is an allstar, but they are making contributions. I dont think AR and Moz upset the overall game plan. Just the offensive game plan. Wouldnt you agree?

Would you say that Turiaf also disrupts the Knicks OFFENSIVE game plan? Yet looking at yesterdays game we wouldnt have won without him. Why not utililze a players strengths instead of admonishing him for his weaknesses? Hill and Darko are getting better every game they play. I'm sure giving AR and Moz playing time would have the same affect.

I think you want to tie this playing time into Knick wins. Which I think is incorrect. The Knicks right now are beating the teams they should, but losing to the so called elite teams. These losses are basically because of defense and rebounding. Why not utilize these 7 footers to see if they can make up the difference, or at least decrease the difference? Seems logical to me.

You don't think Mike D'Antoni and Walsh thought they saw these qualities in them; especially in AR since they specifically worked out a deal for him? Also, Turiaf blows your theory out of the water since his offense in anemic! The tag on AR all along has been "potential". He has shown that he is extremely athletic for his height and can be very explosive. The problem is that when he is on the court, he is very unstructured and not very savvy; more like a raw talent.
You guys call us Mike D fans in a "sarcastic way" but the reality is that they targeted AR and wanted what he has shown flashes of with GS; but they also want to have a wining season. If they continued to play both AR and Moz and their troubles and short comings caused us crucial games... You same guys would be screaming for D'Antoni's head. His bad coaching decision to stay with guys that were not working... Did anyone notice that when they removed both from the rotation we started wining???
Also, just because AR is 7 foot doesn't mean he can be affective in the low post... I mean he's what, 200 pounds???? He's probably more of a 3 than anything else and we have a more rounded player there already. If Turiaf was able to affectively play more time, his sweet spot is around 20 minutes a game, then they would have him on the court more. We need someone who can stay on the floor for major minutes and in consistent more than dominate.
 

Blas

Benchwarmer
Here is my reply in the other thread:

Extreme liabilities? Or extreme offensive liabilities? Look no one is saying Moz is the next Ewing or that AR is the next Oakley, but I'm sure they can offer this team something to help them win. But, I'm sure you Mike D fans cant/wont see this because Mike D cant see it himself.

When I look at what Jordan Hill and Milliecec (sp) are doing now compared to what they did under Mike D it's ludicrious. Again, neither is an allstar, but they are making contributions. I dont think AR and Moz upset the overall game plan. Just the offensive game plan. Wouldnt you agree?

Would you say that Turiaf also disrupts the Knicks OFFENSIVE game plan? Yet looking at yesterdays game we wouldnt have won without him. Why not utililze a players strengths instead of admonishing him for his weaknesses? Hill and Darko are getting better every game they play. I'm sure giving AR and Moz playing time would have the same affect.

I think you want to tie this playing time into Knick wins. Which I think is incorrect. The Knicks right now are beating the teams they should, but losing to the so called elite teams. These losses are basically because of defense and rebounding. Why not utilize these 7 footers to see if they can make up the difference, or at least decrease the difference? Seems logical to me.

Mozgov averages 1 foul every five minutes. That is disruptive on the defensive and offensive side of the court. To put in perspective STAT averages 1 per 10 minutes.
 
Coach him up and he'll be fine. This guy is not totally useless like Mike D wants you to believe. Just like Darko and Jordan hill werent. When are we as fans going to stop making excuses for Mike D on why he doesnt use this big or that one? You have two instances right in front of your face telling you Mike D was wrong. I'd bet my house he's wrong about AR and Moz...
 

legend33

Rookie
dantoni is one of the worst coaches ive ever seen.

INCREDIBLY overrated, terrible at drawing up plays, and is about as stubborn a fkn mule as Brown is/was...

But atleast Brown coached/es defense...

I'd rather LOSE some offense to get much better defense anyway.

Send Gallo's frail injury prone ass outta here, let Randolph play more, who is a good rebounder and defender...

Let's Mike Brown in here, or shiyt SOMEBODY. It's about time we started the no layup rule again...

And as wussy as the league is nowadays, i don't care. I WANNA SEE BODIES HITTING THE FLOOR NOW!
 
dantoni is one of the worst coaches ive ever seen.

INCREDIBLY overrated, terrible at drawing up plays, and is about as stubborn a fkn mule as Brown is/was...

But atleast Brown coached/es defense...

I'd rather LOSE some offense to get much better defense anyway.

Send Gallo's frail injury prone ass outta here, let Randolph play more, who is a good rebounder and defender...

Let's Mike Brown in here, or shiyt SOMEBODY. It's about time we started the no layup rule again...

And as wussy as the league is nowadays, i don't care. I WANNA SEE BODIES HITTING THE FLOOR NOW!



U sound like your are from Real Gm lol another Randolph homer

Gallo>>>> Randolph any day of the weak
Gallo gets what he has to do to become better and in that Pacers game he was showing us a full arsenal getting to the line posting up savvy lay ups. Randoplh = knuckle head
 

hometheaterguy

Knicks Guru
dantoni is one of the worst coaches ive ever seen.

INCREDIBLY overrated, terrible at drawing up plays, and is about as stubborn a fkn mule as Brown is/was...

But atleast Brown coached/es defense...

I'd rather LOSE some offense to get much better defense anyway.

Send Gallo's frail injury prone ass outta here, let Randolph play more, who is a good rebounder and defender...

Let's Mike Brown in here, or shiyt SOMEBODY. It's about time we started the no layup rule again...

And as wussy as the league is nowadays, i don't care. I WANNA SEE BODIES HITTING THE FLOOR NOW!

This style has now finally come to fruition and we are starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel. We have been tanking seasons to get to this point so to make fundamental changes would be counter productive; you make subtle changes and complimentary additions. Every interview with Walsh that I have heard or read has had the same message; backup point guard and a much needed big..... As well as Melo if we can work out a fair deal and not a fleecing of the Knicks to get him. I've also read from the rumor mills that everything points to the Knicks getting Iggy by the trade deadline if Melo falls through... Of course there are the locally driven sports writer created rumors like the Knicks are in trade talks with Orlando to send Turiaf for Duhon.... I might believe that if Isiah was GM but Walsh contemplating that trade?????? Please!!!

So Legend33, I think the Knicks brass does want to sure up the defense, especially getting better on the boards and getting "longer" in the paint. They want to make sure that they address this with out affecting the current format.
 

Red

TYPE-A
This style has now finally come to fruition and we are starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel. We have been tanking seasons to get to this point so to make fundamental changes would be counter productive; you make subtle changes and complimentary additions. Every interview with Walsh that I have heard or read has had the same message; backup point guard and a much needed big..... As well as Melo if we can work out a fair deal and not a fleecing of the Knicks to get him. I've also read from the rumor mills that everything points to the Knicks getting Iggy by the trade deadline if Melo falls through... Of course there are the locally driven sports writer created rumors like the Knicks are in trade talks with Orlando to send Turiaf for Duhon.... I might believe that if Isiah was GM but Walsh contemplating that trade?????? Please!!!

So Legend33, I think the Knicks brass does want to sure up the defense, especially getting better on the boards and getting "longer" in the paint. They want to make sure that they address this with out affecting the current format.
Please tell me what about this don't you understand:
Moz & AR aren't anymore liabilities than Turriaf or Williams.
In MDA's system sure they may look lost but that's more of a reflection of this system than their talents.

Face it, these are players that MANY other coaches can find a use for ala Nate & Jordan.

Its a simple issue... This coach does not value fundamentals. All phases of the game must be played well to compete, not just offense. Without value on bigs, defense and the like, you will be limited which we are.

If the bigs we acquire(d) are liabilities, then this is a direct reflection on the coach. And for some reason the majority of bigs we have (had) could not warrant playing time. This forces me to conclude that its not the players but the coach and system. And if that's the case, then we can also conclude that any big player that "fits" this system will not have the fundamental skills (defense, low post presence) needed to make it to the next level.

If MDA thinks we can get by with 7-8 rotations, again we will lack the players, skills needed to go to the next level. Either way, sure while I'm happy we have improved, the writing is on the wall.

It says: Without the proper valuation and implementation of size and defense, scoring will take you only so far. And that's what we've witnessed to this point right? Yeah exciting, yeah improved, and yeah come playoff time, worn down, undersized and a 1st-2nd round victim.

A good coach implements strategy in all phases of the game. He has multiple strategies to attack the opposition in any situation. He learns and adapts to beat teams in multiple ways in multiple phases. He makes players better and puts them in a pos. to win. Along with more intangibles.

MDA is limited. If things don't fall perfectly into place, he has no options. If the players aren't perfectly suited to his flawed system, he has no options. The players available to fit his system... are already on our team, and we've succeeded to improve yet still have flaws easily exposed.

There is only one answer (to those who already see what the future brings based on our stats and performace)... learn to value and implement bigs or you will develop a false sense of security and false hope only to be mauled by more fundamentally sound teams and coaches.

*and we lead the NBA in blocks because we let everyone into the paint.
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
Please tell me what about this don't you understand:
Moz & AR aren't anymore liabilities than Turriaf or Williams.
In MDA's system sure they may look lost but that's more of a reflection of this system than their talents.

Face it, these are players that MANY other coaches can find a use for ala Nate & Jordan.

Its a simple issue... This coach does not value fundamentals. All phases of the game must be played well to compete, not just offense. Without value on bigs, defense and the like, you will be limited which we are.

If the bigs we acquire(d) are liabilities, then this is a direct reflection on the coach. And for some reason the majority of bigs we have (had) could not warrant playing time. This forces me to conclude that its not the players but the coach and system. And if that's the case, then we can also conclude that any big player that "fits" this system will not have the fundamental skills (defense, low post presence) needed to make it to the next level.

If MDA thinks we can get by with 7-8 rotations, again we will lack the players, skills needed to go to the next level. Either way, sure while I'm happy we have improved, the writing is on the wall.

It says: Without the proper valuation and implementation of size and defense, scoring will take you only so far. And that's what we've witnessed to this point right? Yeah exciting, yeah improved, and yeah come playoff time, worn down, undersized and a 1st-2nd round victim.

A good coach implements strategy in all phases of the game. He has multiple strategies to attack the opposition in any situation. He learns and adapts to beat teams in multiple ways in multiple phases. He makes players better and puts them in a pos. to win. Along with more intangibles.

MDA is limited. If things don't fall perfectly into place, he has no options. If the players aren't perfectly suited to his flawed system, he has no options. The players available to fit his system... are already on our team, and we've succeeded to improve yet still have flaws easily exposed.

There is only one answer (to those who already see what the future brings based on our stats and performace)... learn to value and implement bigs or you will develop a false sense of security and false hope only to be mauled by more fundamentally sound teams and coaches.

*and we lead the NBA in blocks because we let everyone into the paint.

The more I tried to highlight stuff the more I realized I would just need to put the entire post in bold.

+1 and as soon as I give someone else a rep point I might have yo give you another one. This was an excellent post.
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
I especially love the part with the bigger font...that's exactly what I was talking about with coach Pops. The Spurs went from a perennial defensive juggernaut to the best record, so far, in the league with an uptempo "get it and go" style offense...and I'm told that's because they have 3 really good veteran players?

While I'm sure that plays a role in it....Popovich still had make the assessment of his roster and chose to change the team's DNA based on what he had....that has very little to do with "veteran leadership"...that's the coach.....coaching.

But meanwhile Mike D can't figure out a way to implement AR or Moz into the game to put them in positions to have success? And that's ok because of what exactly?
 

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
Indeed good coaches know how to acclimate their styles to the player movement.

Pat Riley coached the Showtime Lakers to great success using a fast-paced system that involved having a great distributor in Magic, but when he came to the Knicks he was able to implement tough, defensive basketball to great success (if not for that ****er Michael Jordan) because he didn't have the same roster that he did over in LA.

Mike D hasn't done that...but at the same time, it's not like any of our players would be elite defenders in a half-court system either. We have players that are suited to his style, and I think D'Antoni will eventually be able to work AR and Mozgov into his rotation - you have to remember that they're both young and incredibly raw, especially Mozgov, so there will be difficulty in getting them minutes at first, especially with other players they've never played with before.

But D'Antoni eventually relented and gave Nate some minutes, now especially with Gallo hurt you'd think he'll be giving AR some time too especially due to his length and athleticism
 

moneyg

Starter
I especially love the part with the bigger font...that's exactly what I was talking about with coach Pops. The Spurs went from a perennial defensive juggernaut to the best record, so far, in the league with an uptempo "get it and go" style offense...and I'm told that's because they have 3 really good veteran players?

While I'm sure that plays a role in it....Popovich still had make the assessment of his roster and chose to change the team's DNA based on what he had....that has very little to do with "veteran leadership"...that's the coach.....coaching.

But meanwhile Mike D can't figure out a way to implement AR or Moz into the game to put them in positions to have success? And that's ok because of what exactly?

If AR and T moz was on the spurs.. they would be playin meaningful minutes...that the difference with coaches like O'antoni and your Pop or Sloan or Jackson..

i will take it even further..

nobodies give Nate Mcmillian credit for anything.. he got a constantly injured staff and his franchise playin is down and they still find a way to win.. now thats coaching... he should be in the discussion for coach of the year..

side note... Wesley Mathews... who i said would be a good pickup for the knicks in the offseason and most of you laughed at it...is a major reason why they r good.
 

welcometonycity

Rotation player
If AR and T moz was on the spurs.. they would be playin meaningful minutes...that the difference with coaches like O'antoni and your Pop or Sloan or Jackson..

i will take it even further..

nobodies give Nate Mcmillian credit for anything.. he got a constantly injured staff and his franchise playin is down and they still find a way to win.. now thats coaching... he should be in the discussion for coach of the year..

side note... Wesley Mathews... who i said would be a good pickup for the knicks in the offseason and most of you laughed at it...is a major reason why they r good.

ur right. on point +1 Wesley Matthews is nice, its in his genes.
 

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
I agree Matthews would've been good for us but I dunno if we would've gotten Raymond Felton had we signed Matthews...which would've sucked, Matthews is good, but Felton is currently playing at an all-star level
 

moneyg

Starter
I agree Matthews would've been good for us but I dunno if we would've gotten Raymond Felton had we signed Matthews...which would've sucked, Matthews is good, but Felton is currently playing at an all-star level

we had enough for two max player..

Amare then

felton and mathews could of split the other max money

we wouldnd of gort the russion and mason jr.. and probably had to trade rautins for a bag of chips
 
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