Reality and Future of SSOL

iSaYughh

Starter
I've written up several times explaining why I feel SSOL (as a piece of game theory n strategy) rapes every other strategy/style in the league, and what SSOL really means.

This is to clarify what it means for the reality of our team, and what our future will (or at least should) look like, in dealing with the invariable drawbacks of any strategy.

If you have a perpetual hard-on for powerful, lumbering defensive juggernaut players and teams...SSOL means Shit Son, Outta Luck. Likely everything you want to change won't unless D'ant is fired and Walsh changes direction or keels over while making it rain at Scores.

We want to actually focus more and more on scoring more and more, and adding --or at least keeping -- our run and gun tempo and ability.

Points scored is just as valuable as points you don't allow. There's an emotional nostalgia that makes us pine for defense, a notion of being balanced.

Setting aside flaws and fault for a moment, the main reason we are as good and dangerous and respected as we are right now is because of our offense, and it's specific ability to smother opposing teams w tempo and take them out of their comfort zone.

People talk about D'ant and "unconventional"; that's an excellent thing. Excellence and greatness is unconventional. That which transcends mediocrity and defies expectations is unconventional. Our winning record and status as a dangerous team is unconventional; unexpected; extra-ordinary.

Our signature unconventionality is our ace up the sleeve, and source of power. The flaws we have (defense, size, depth) and getting them improved aren't mutually exclusive with keeping with the spirit of our offense and what we loosely refer to as SSOL.

When you have Kareem's skybar hook, Adam Dunn's power stroke, etc etc, you make your weapon as lethal as it can be, and surround it with complimentary additions to round you out, and fortify your centerpiece and piece de resistance.

Same for us. What we actually need is an ultimate SSOL Starting Five, to then be surrounded by the ultimate complimentary pieces. This isn't just the simplest thing and most feasible, but the best.

Melo and Mayo is a golden ticket. And using every draft pick and dollar we have left to get 1trick pony defensive stoppers and backup bigs w size (Glen Davis, Deandre Jordan eg).

Felton
Mayo
Gallo
Melo
STAT
6th Williams
bench Douglas, Turiaf, Glen Davis, Moz, Jerome Jordan + our draft picks

D'ant will use a bench most effectively when it most effectively aids our (winning) strategy. Very simple but ruthlessly effective role players who are coachable and know what they are here to do.

Is D'ant sacrificing battles for what he deems as a soon to be won war? Likely.

When we mention balance and making improvement, we actually need it more as a priority on offense than defense. Our O isn't nearly as good as it seems, as our D isn't nearly as bad.

If 'SSOL' is this effective now, imagine a starting 5 that truly maxes it and let's STAT (and everyone else) beast on even greater levels. We went into the season with tons of question marks and holes; this was Year 1 of our rebuild, after finally napalming Isiah Thomas' work.

Mayo and Gallo, Melo and STAT, with Felton facilitating would honestly be unstoppable, with another ~.400 3pt shooter as our 6th, and a bench filled with size and hustle and defensive specialties.

Our problems aren't systemic but almost entirely situational. The latter you fix w role players whose team value exceeds the relatively meager contracts they get. Another bonus of going against the grain and status quo with SSOL -- bargain shopping and getting steals and value is much more ripe. The opportunities are naturally there when your needs differ in degree than the average team.

The inverse is true too -- certain players with a given market value will be 'overpaid'/under-perform for us.
 
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ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
yep...

This is a heady, clear post that is full of truth.

Melo will only make seven seconds or less better and more unshakable.

The fact we score like we do w it now is a testament to Mike D's coaching and the players execution, Fields particularly.

He is so disciplined and savvy, makes open shots, finishes at the rim. I'd hate to see him go but if his leaving results in us getting Melo so be it. Bye bye Landry...

Melo is great at moving w out the ball too. He's one of the most clever offensive minded players in the league.

His domination though w STAT, would take SSOL to a higher level of smoothness, confounding and frustrating even elite teams soon after he arrives and gets himself acclimated.

It's no surprise the proverbial cock block thruout the league is so strong.

Melo on the Knicks, in SSOL w STAT, is a game changer.

I only hope Donnie, the shrewd gangsta, can pull this transaction off.
 
I've written up several times explaining why I feel SSOL (as a piece of game theory n strategy) rapes every other strategy/style in the league, and what SSOL really means.

This is to clarify what it means for the reality of our team, and what our future will (or at least should) look like, in dealing with the invariable drawbacks of any strategy.

If you have a perpetual hard-on for powerful, lumbering defensive juggernaut players and teams...SSOL means Shit Son, Outta Luck. Likely everything you want to change won't unless D'ant is fired and Walsh changes direction or keels over while making it rain at Scores.

We want to actually focus more and more on scoring more and more, and adding --or at least keeping -- our run and gun tempo and ability.

Points scored is just as valuable as points you don't allow. There's an emotional nostalgia that makes us pine for defense, a notion of being balanced.

Setting aside flaws and fault for a moment, the main reason we are as good and dangerous and respected as we are right now is because of our offense, and it's specific ability to smother opposing teams w tempo and take them out of their comfort zone.

People talk about D'ant and "unconventional"; that's an excellent thing. Excellence and greatness is unconventional. That which transcends mediocrity and defies expectations is unconventional. Our winning record and status as a dangerous team is unconventional; unexpected; extra-ordinary.

Our signature unconventionality is our ace up the sleeve, and source of power. The flaws we have (defense, size, depth) and getting them improved aren't mutually exclusive with keeping with the spirit of our offense and what we loosely refer to as SSOL.

When you have Kareem's skybar hook, Adam Dunn's power stroke, etc etc, you make your weapon as lethal as it can be, and surround it with complimentary additions to round you out, and fortify your centerpiece and piece de resistance.

Same for us. What we actually need is an ultimate SSOL Starting Five, to then be surrounded by the ultimate complimentary pieces. This isn't just the simplest thing and most feasible, but the best.

Melo and Mayo is a golden ticket. And using every draft pick and dollar we have left to get 1trick pony defensive stoppers and backup bigs w size (Glen Davis, Deandre Jordan eg).

Felton
Mayo
Gallo
Melo
STAT
6th Williams
bench Douglas, Turiaf, Glen Davis, Moz, Jerome Jordan + our draft picks

D'ant will use a bench most effectively when it most effectively aids our (winning) strategy. Very simple but ruthlessly effective role players who are coachable and know what they are here to do.

Is D'ant sacrificing battles for what he deems as a soon to be won war? Likely.

When we mention balance and making improvement, we actually need it more as a priority on offense than defense. Our O isn't nearly as good as it seems, as our D isn't nearly as bad.

If 'SSOL' is this effective now, imagine a starting 5 that truly maxes it and let's STAT (and everyone else) beast on even greater levels. We went into the season with tons of question marks and holes; this was Year 1 of our rebuild, after finally napalming Isiah Thomas' work.

Mayo and Gallo, Melo and STAT, with Felton facilitating would honestly be unstoppable, with another ~.400 3pt shooter as our 6th, and a bench filled with size and hustle and defensive specialties.

Our problems aren't systemic but almost entirely situational. The latter you fix w role players whose team value exceeds the relatively meager contracts they get. Another bonus of going against the grain and status quo with SSOL -- bargain shopping and getting steals and value is much more ripe. The opportunities are naturally there when your needs differ in degree than the average team.

The inverse is true too -- certain players with a given market value will be 'overpaid'/under-perform for us.

You do know SSOL backwards spells LOSS, right?
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Strong thread. I would add the consistent production D'ant gets out of his PG's with this system to the list. Is it coincidence that he took Nash, a slightly above average PG and turned him into a MVP Hall of Famer and now he has Felton putting up career All-star numbers his first year in the system?

People like to bitch about the system when they don't understand it. This system is what is allowing an undersized team of young players to compete nightly with the leagues best. This system is allowing Amare to put up MVP numbers and allowing Chandler to put up career best. Without this system we would not be as dangerous and our players would be putting up lackluster production like Felton did one year ago for defensive hall of famer, Larry Brown.

We are overachieving and there is already buzz about D'ant winning another COY award.
 

welcometonycity

Rotation player
good thread. good logic points. +1 bra. D'ant is a great pg coach, since he played the position himself.

Soooo, when we trading that 1st rounder for Randolph?
 
how many times are you guys gonna use that played out backward acronym? it was clever the first hundred times.....let its rest now.

i hate when people miss the whole article, just to nit-pick.

dummy

The point of the thread? Applauding a coaches system that will never win a championship in the NBA? Applauding a coaches system that admittedly focuses entirely on one side of the ball? It seems to me it would be easier to win a championship using a concept that builds a well rounded team. You know a team that can run as well as play half court offense. A team that values defense and rebounds. Seems to me that if your strong in all these areas you dont have to rely solely on offense to win games. You can lean on your defense and rebounding when necessary.

This thread is whats called a fluff piece. It has no value what so ever. Unless your basketball IQ is lower than ARs. Which obviously it is...
 
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TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
The point of the thread? Applauding a coaches system that will never win a championship in the NBA? Applauding a coaches system that admittedly focuses entirely on one side of the ball? It seems to me it would be easier to win a championship using a concept that builds a well rounded team. You know a team that can run as well as play half court offense. A team that values defense and rebounds. Seems to me that if your strong in all these areas you dont have to rely solely on offense to win games. You can lean on your defense and rebounding when necessary.

This thread is whats called a fluff piece. It has no value what so ever. Unless your basketball IQ is lower than ARs. Which obviously it is...

Please show us where SSOL means you can't play defense. D'ant coaches defense but the system gets a bad rap because by it's very nature it inflates the score for both teams. Unintelligent people look at 108-120 point scores and wrongly conclude that the system cares not about defense. More possessions will lead to a bigger score but that does not mean D'ant's system precludes defense. The Suns were an underrated defensive team and the Knicks would be too if they had better defenders. Our best potential defender, Azubuikie has yet to play a game for us!

Defense has more to do with the players then anything else. Sure, Walsh assembled some players that can execute SSOL and they are not the greatest group of defenders or rebounders. Sure, Walsh could have got some long lumbering players who can't run or shoot but can play defense and we might be a better defensive team. Guess what, that is not our personnel and not our identity. Changing coaches or system but keeping the same players won't turn us into a defensive team. Would you be happier with a defensive coach like Larry Brown who got crap performance out of Felton and was one and done in the playoffs? I for one understand that D'ant has us OVERACHIEVING, has multiple players playing their best ball ever and can win a chip with his system provided we can add some more talent.

So you and others can pretend that a coaching change will magically make an undersized group of lackluster defenders into a defensive, rebounding Juggernaut but I won't buy it.
 

iSaYughh

Starter
Strong thread. I would add the consistent production D'ant gets out of his PG's with this system to the list. Is it coincidence that he took Nash, a slightly above average PG and turned him into a MVP Hall of Famer and now he has Felton putting up career All-star numbers his first year in the system?

People like to bitch about the system when they don't understand it. This system is what is allowing an undersized team of young players to compete nightly with the leagues best. This system is allowing Amare to put up MVP numbers and allowing Chandler to put up career best. Without this system we would not be as dangerous and our players would be putting up lackluster production like Felton did one year ago for defensive hall of famer, Larry Brown.

We are overachieving and there is already buzz about D'ant winning another COY award.

Exactamundo! Overachieving -- one word, that's so clearly true, yet the same anti-Knick, err anti-D'antoni people, who placed their expectations on the season and the metrics for D'ant just perpetually move the goal post and get amnesia as expectations and achievements keep getting met. Or being exceeded.
 

Toons

is the Bo$$
The point of the thread? Applauding a coaches system that will never win a championship in the NBA? Applauding a coaches system that admittedly focuses entirely on one side of the ball? It seems to me it would be easier to win a championship using a concept that builds a well rounded team. You know a team that can run as well as play half court offense. A team that values defense and rebounds. Seems to me that if your strong in all these areas you dont have to rely solely on offense to win games. You can lean on your defense and rebounding when necessary.

This thread is whats called a fluff piece. It has no value what so ever. Unless your basketball IQ is lower than ARs. Which obviously it is...

honestly, i think all of our basketball iq's are lower than AR.....a professional basketball player. How can you say we will never win a championship with MDA? So by your logic, if MDA was coaching the heat, the heat would never win a ring? is that it? so if greg popovic or phil jackson was coaching the clippers or the wizards they would be in line for a ring before our team? What are you trying to say?
The knicks are probably the most improved defensive team in the nba. Not saying they are the best, but we are definitley no longer the worst. So its quite stupid to say that we dont focus on defense.
Next, you cant be a rebounding team without solid rebounders and a 6'10'' guy as your centre. You are going to get outbounded 9 times out of 10....so then you work with what you have, which is an uptempo team that forces more possessions per game than any other team in the league.
THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK


i will post a piece of the 'Mind of Dantoni' article...



Want to understand the Knicks? Throw away the box score and turn on your laptop.


More

Knicks' Pick-n-Roll Is MIA Knicks Suffer Growing Pains in Defeat Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni began to rely on quantitative statistics when his team's up-tempo style made basic statistics such as points scored, points allowed, total rebounds and total steals misleading.

Instead, the Knicks rely on statistics like "ball movement,'' which calculates how many assists per field goal, "total shooting percentage,'' which calculates basic field goal percentage but also puts value in being fouled, and "effective field goal percentage''?which is a weighted percentage that incorporates three-pointers.

Effective field goal percentage is perhaps the Knicks' most telling statistic, due to their heavy reliance on three-pointers, Mr. D'Antoni said. For instance, if the team is making 40% of its three-pointers, it is equivalent to 60% of regular field goals.

This Knicks team is shooting a subpar 43.5% in regular field-goal percentage, but that figures improves to 48.3% when three-pointers are factored in.

Mr. D'Antoni relies on such statistics to give him a more accurate read on how his players are performing in the high-scoring games his style produces.

"A lot of people throw out stats without thinking about it and you get a bad rap," Mr. D'Antoni said. "The teams in Phoenix were always pretty good defensively, but we would score 120 and give up 110, and they'd say 'Oh, you beat them with your offense,' But even 110 is pretty good defense because we had so many possessions.'
While the Knicks have given up an alarming 105 points per game, enough to rank in the bottom five of the league, their points per one hundred possessions, the number the Knicks look at, ranks 11th in the league.

The problem this season has actually been their offense. They rank 25th in points scored per 100 possessions at 103.2.

http://www.knicksonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9219

theres the rest if you want to understand YOUR team.

it will then open your eyes to the thread topic at hand, as to WHY WE NEED MELO more than ever.

melo is the best rebounding forward available this offseason....get him in a knick jersey now!
 

iSaYughh

Starter
This is a heady, clear post that is full of truth.

Melo will only make seven seconds or less better and more unshakable.

The fact we score like we do w it now is a testament to Mike D's coaching and the players execution, Fields particularly.

He is so disciplined and savvy, makes open shots, finishes at the rim. I'd hate to see him go but if his leaving results in us getting Melo so be it. Bye bye Landry...

Melo is great at moving w out the ball too. He's one of the most clever offensive minded players in the league.

His domination though w STAT, would take SSOL to a higher level of smoothness, confounding and frustrating even elite teams soon after he arrives and gets himself acclimated.

It's no surprise the proverbial cock block thruout the league is so strong.

Melo on the Knicks, in SSOL w STAT, is a game changer.

I only hope Donnie, the shrewd gangsta, can pull this transaction off.

So true. We're not gutting shit, either. We actually have too MANY players now. When we first started talking about Melo, one of the first things I said was:

Consolidation.

We want our bench to be specialists, 1trick ponies even; but guys who have a clear purpose and skill set and know what they need to do. Turiaf, eg. Same types of guys we can milk value from, versus overspending for lumbering starting ego/starting paid guys who have inflated (for us) market values, bc of the more unique nature of our team.

We want our starting 5 to be as offensively capable as possible. Situational defense matters most in SSOL, too:

Eg, Boston Cripples game. When RuPaul took the game winner, what we really needed defensively was a Melo; a super athletic, heady player to blanket his ass when it matters most and match up talent vs talent.

This doesn't even include how Melo himself would be that very shot icing buzzer beating finisher for us. Which, as we see more n more, Amare is starting to shoulder.

We're most clearly losing games on OFFENSE, if anything. Mainly bc we need a 1b/#2 scorer, specifically to compliment Amare and let him maintain his dominance most consistently, and let Felton have a more focused role.
 

iSaYughh

Starter
Please show us where SSOL means you can't play defense. D'ant coaches defense but the system gets a bad rap because by it's very nature it inflates the score for both teams. Unintelligent people look at 108-120 point scores and wrongly conclude that the system cares not about defense. More possessions will lead to a bigger score but that does not mean D'ant's system precludes defense. The Suns were an underrated defensive team and the Knicks would be too if they had better defenders. Our best potential defender, Azubuikie has yet to play a game for us!

Defense has more to do with the players then anything else. Sure, Walsh assembled some players that can execute SSOL and they are not the greatest group of defenders or rebounders. Sure, Walsh could have got some long lumbering players who can't run or shoot but can play defense and we might be a better defensive team. Guess what, that is not our personnel and not our identity. Changing coaches or system but keeping the same players won't turn us into a defensive team. Would you be happier with a defensive coach like Larry Brown who got crap performance out of Felton and was one and done in the playoffs? I for one understand that D'ant has us OVERACHIEVING, has multiple players playing their best ball ever and can win a chip with his system provided we can add some more talent.

So you and others can pretend that a coaching change will magically make an undersized group of lackluster defenders into a defensive, rebounding Juggernaut but I won't buy it.

Co-sign. You'd think 90% of KO voted for McCain w this type of resistance to change and innovative thinking and evolutionary solutions...

Also, re: PHO. How history is changing things...D'ant was practically re-defining the entire NBA landscape and what was considered possible and best. Not to mention the single greatest coaching to a player transformation and benefit of all time: Nash.

PHO was a juggernaut and maybe the NBA's most feared team, even during a prime Spurs dynasty.

PHO never luck sacked Lebron or Duncan or Shaq. Their crucial players were almost all catapulted to their elite or good status by....D'antoni.

Yet again, his coaching effectiveness and theory of play took them to amazing heights and took the NBA by storm.

That they didn't happen to seal off a title doesn't reflect his coaching, his style of play, or even the players...so much as how good the Spurs happened to be and how they matched up, and the little things of fortune that make or break champions and dynasties (refs, a bad suspension, an injury).
 
honestly, i think all of our basketball iq's are lower than AR.....a professional basketball player. How can you say we will never win a championship with MDA? So by your logic, if MDA was coaching the heat, the heat would never win a ring? is that it? so if greg popovic or phil jackson was coaching the clippers or the wizards they would be in line for a ring before our team? What are you trying to say?
The knicks are probably the most improved defensive team in the nba. Not saying they are the best, but we are definitley no longer the worst. So its quite stupid to say that we dont focus on defense.
Next, you cant be a rebounding team without solid rebounders and a 6'10'' guy as your centre. You are going to get outbounded 9 times out of 10....so then you work with what you have, which is an uptempo team that forces more possessions per game than any other team in the league.
THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK


i will post a piece of the 'Mind of Dantoni' article...



Want to understand the Knicks? Throw away the box score and turn on your laptop.


More

Knicks' Pick-n-Roll Is MIA Knicks Suffer Growing Pains in Defeat Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni began to rely on quantitative statistics when his team's up-tempo style made basic statistics such as points scored, points allowed, total rebounds and total steals misleading.

Instead, the Knicks rely on statistics like "ball movement,'' which calculates how many assists per field goal, "total shooting percentage,'' which calculates basic field goal percentage but also puts value in being fouled, and "effective field goal percentage''—which is a weighted percentage that incorporates three-pointers.

Effective field goal percentage is perhaps the Knicks' most telling statistic, due to their heavy reliance on three-pointers, Mr. D'Antoni said. For instance, if the team is making 40% of its three-pointers, it is equivalent to 60% of regular field goals.

This Knicks team is shooting a subpar 43.5% in regular field-goal percentage, but that figures improves to 48.3% when three-pointers are factored in.

Mr. D'Antoni relies on such statistics to give him a more accurate read on how his players are performing in the high-scoring games his style produces.

"A lot of people throw out stats without thinking about it and you get a bad rap," Mr. D'Antoni said. "The teams in Phoenix were always pretty good defensively, but we would score 120 and give up 110, and they'd say 'Oh, you beat them with your offense,' But even 110 is pretty good defense because we had so many possessions.'
While the Knicks have given up an alarming 105 points per game, enough to rank in the bottom five of the league, their points per one hundred possessions, the number the Knicks look at, ranks 11th in the league.

The problem this season has actually been their offense. They rank 25th in points scored per 100 possessions at 103.2.

http://www.knicksonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9219

theres the rest if you want to understand YOUR team.

it will then open your eyes to the thread topic at hand, as to WHY WE NEED MELO more than ever.

melo is the best rebounding forward available this offseason....get him in a knick jersey now!

Knicks defensive rating is ranked 23rd in the league. Up from being 27th last year. Defensive rating values a defenses success per 100 possessions. They're not as good as you want the masses to believe they are.

Why the fantasy? If MDA were coaching the Heat? Why is that a consideration when it'll never happen? Well lets not say never, but it is unlikely.

Oh I agree we need Melo, but where we differ is the coach. Offensively we'll be more of a juggernaut with Melo. Defensively it'll be the same. We wont win a championship playing small ball...

Your article says the Knicks are 11th in the league in defensive rating. When was it written? Early december? My sources Basketball Reference say they're 23rd...
 
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Strong thread. I would add the consistent production D'ant gets out of his PG's with this system to the list. Is it coincidence that he took Nash, a slightly above average PG and turned him into a MVP Hall of Famer and now he has Felton putting up career All-star numbers his first year in the system?

People like to bitch about the system when they don't understand it. This system is what is allowing an undersized team of young players to compete nightly with the leagues best. This system is allowing Amare to put up MVP numbers and allowing Chandler to put up career best. Without this system we would not be as dangerous and our players would be putting up lackluster production like Felton did one year ago for defensive hall of famer, Larry Brown.

We are overachieving and there is already buzz about D'ant winning another COY award.

Regular season success doesnt always translate to the post season. If he wins COY more power to him. Win a championship. Then I'll be impressed.
 

Toons

is the Bo$$
Knicks defensive rating is ranked 23rd in the league. Up from being 27th last year. Defensive rating values a defenses success per 100 possessions. They're not as good as you want the masses to believe they are.

Why the fantasy? If MDA were coaching the Heat? Why is that a consideration when it'll never happen? Well lets not say never, but it is unlikely.

Oh I agree we need Melo, but where we differ is the coach. Offensively we'll be more of a juggernaut with Melo. Defensively it'll be the same. We wont win a championship playing small ball...

Your article says the Knicks are 11th in the league in defensive rating. When was it written? Early december? My sources Basketball Reference say they're 23rd...

LOL.....I SMASHED ALL OF YOUR POINTS AND ALL YOU CAN SAY IS MY ARTICLE IS OLD?

lol, i said, we improved....afterwards, i said we are not the best.....but we are also not the worst. soooo....ur still proving my point.

ur wrong on all counts except for that one small thing
 
LOL.....I SMASHED ALL OF YOUR POINTS AND ALL YOU CAN SAY IS MY ARTICLE IS OLD?

lol, i said, we improved....afterwards, i said we are not the best.....but we are also not the worst. soooo....ur still proving my point.

ur wrong on all counts except for that one small thing

Smashed? By posting something thats not true? The stats that you are so proud of in that article might as well be from 1998. They are no longer applicable. Keep smashing away. Face Palm...
 

CoolClyde

Moderator
iSaYowza does it again

once again, an excellent thread on behalf of Antoni and his SSOL. I agree with many points re this revolutionary unconventional system, however, it seems that Walsh needs to bring in players that can perform and conform within the system, rather than coaching the players he has. and if they don't conform, they sit and stew and rust and won't be ready to contribute if and when the time comes. is the short-rotation a by-product of the SSOL? is playing the ego card by benching capable players when they don't abide by his iron fist and holier-than-thou mind part of the SSOL?

If the Knicks don't get Melo, OR if STAT or Feltip go down because of overplayed minutes leading to injuries or burnout, this team is F*CKED! Revolutionary, evolutionary, mustachionary, call it what it is, championships are won by defense first. The best defensive teams make stops that lead to offensive firepower. Miami's big 3 understand this, does this make Eric Polestruck the best coach in the league? Doc Rivers and Phil Jackson understand. Jeff van Gundy understood.

I guess it's up to Walsh to get the players who understand how to play in the SSOL AND play defense, that will take Knicks to the next competitive level. I applaud Antoni for what he's done with the team Walsh has put together, but I still don't like him as a coach, or as a person. my bad?

SSO
loser_toni.jpg
 

jimkcchief88

All Star
As Charles Barkley said following the Knicks loss to the Suns: "Its hard to win when you give up 129 points...."

I mean you look at the teams that have dominated the league over the last 20 years and they are all strong defensive teams. The Bulls had the "dobermans" in the backcourt of Jordan/Pippen. You had the "Bad Boy" Pistons. Tim Duncan's Spurs teams play defense. The current Laker/Boston teams play defense. The old adage still applies: DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS. Throw out as much BS you want about how the rules and games has changed, you still have to get stops to win. Doesn't mean you can't run. MIZZOU plays up tempo style, but still leads the NCAA in steals/turnover diff. year in and year out. Quick shots give the other team extra possessions/shots and you can never control the pace of the game. Now you see Felton is getting worn out because our backcourt is thin. Look at this week-ends NFL playoffs: all defensive teams. Good pitching still wins in baseball, and defense still wins in basketball and football.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
As Charles Barkley said following the Knicks loss to the Suns: "Its hard to win when you give up 129 points...."

I mean you look at the teams that have dominated the league over the last 20 years and they are all strong defensive teams. The Bulls had the "dobermans" in the backcourt of Jordan/Pippen. You had the "Bad Boy" Pistons. Tim Duncan's Spurs teams play defense. The current Laker/Boston teams play defense. The old adage still applies: DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS. Throw out as much BS you want about how the rules and games has changed, you still have to get stops to win. Doesn't mean you can't run. MIZZOU plays up tempo style, but still leads the NCAA in steals/turnover diff. year in and year out. Quick shots give the other team extra possessions/shots and you can never control the pace of the game. Now you see Felton is getting worn out because our backcourt is thin. Look at this week-ends NFL playoffs: all defensive teams. Good pitching still wins in baseball, and defense still wins in basketball and football.

Has anyone argued that defense isn't important? Nope. Your post is about as revolutionary as stating that teams need to put the ball in the basket in order to score points...

The purpose of this thread and the points many of us are making is that SSOL does not preclude defense. Further that defense has more to do with the players then an OFFENSIVE system.

P.S. Still think the Knicks won't make the playoffs?
 
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