Acy/Outlaw in, Tyler/Ellington out

WNY_Knickfan

Benchwarmer
Wayne Ellington, we hardly knew ya! Thoughts on the trade? I get a lot of mixed opinions on it, Ellington, well, he can shoot but unless Jr/Shump was moved, he was never likely to get any burn, so makes ton of sense, but I hate giving up on Tyler, thought he looked good in vegas, know we have depth there now with sam d and jason in, but cheap and if someone went down and we turned to Tyler it wouldn't frighten me. Acy, not that i've seen a great deal, but reminds me a bit of the JYD, or Reggie Evans, not ultra talented but goes nuts, so I like that but doubt he plays much, Outlaw, well there is some talent there but thought he'd kinda been a bum for a few years now? Idk, not stoked or irate, just wanted to hear opinions
 

tiger0330

Legend
It was a minor trade for both teams with the Kings reportedly set to waive both players to get under the luxury tax. Acy is nothing special, smallish if you play him at the 4 and not a skilled SF, yeah he might be a high energy guy but he has to be to make up for what he lacks. Used to think Outlaw was a stud when he was in Portland but like you say he's been a bum the last few years but he has more potential to be Melo's backup at SF than Acy imo.

I think the Knicks did the deal to balance the roster getting 2 guys to possibly back up Melo rather than depending on Cleanthony alone to be Melo's backup. There were rumors that the Knicks were willing to give up Prigoni to get rid of Ellington which made no sense and I'm glad it didn't happen.
 

WNY_Knickfan

Benchwarmer
Oh wow, yeah I would not have been happy to lose Prigs, think he will be quite useful, him and Calderon as generals that can keep defenders honest, then Larkin as a pace changer at certain points
 
This trade was a factor of zero on a scale of 0 to 0

Yeah. This is a move you make to maybe open you up to make another move, which maybe, after two more moves, actually affects your rotation in some meaningful way.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
This trade was a factor of zero on a scale of 0 to 0

This trade prove Phil rushed into the Tyson/Felton trade without a clue, Phil was suppose to demand a Mavs future draft pick along with Dalembert/Calderon. Taking Ellington/Larkins contract that total $4M per were something I expect from a interim GM Grunwald.

To take on Ellington $2.7M per contract ....
The Kings demanded a Knicks future draft pick, plus a young big body Tyler to mix with Cousins in the paint.

Knicks gave-up .. Tyson/Tyler/Felton/and 2016 2nd round pick for ..
Dalembert/Outlaw/Acy/Calderon/Larkin

Im going to let the players above (2014-15 season) performance weigh out the trade.
Trading down? or trading up?
 

tiger0330

Legend
This trade prove Phil rushed into the Tyson/Felton trade without a clue, Phil was suppose to demand a Mavs future draft pick along with Dalembert/Calderon. Taking Ellington/Larkins contract that total $4M per were something I expect from a interim GM Grunwald.

To take on Ellington $2.7M per contract ....
The Kings demanded a Knicks future draft pick, plus a young big body Tyler to mix with Cousins in the paint.


Knicks gave-up .. Tyson/Tyler/Felton/and 2016 2nd round pick for ..
Dalembert/Outlaw/Acy/Calderon/Larkin

Im going to let the players above (2014-15 season) performance weigh out the trade.
Trading down? or trading up?
This 2nd round pick was already one we gave to Portland in the Felton trade. The Knicks just took off the 31-36 position protection so if the Knicks don't finish as a bottom 5 team next season they don't lose anything.

The Kings supposedly are going to release Tyler and use the stretch provision on Ellington to waive him to get under the luxury tax. So the Kings are not pairing Tyler with Cousins or keeping Ellington for his 3 pt shooting, this is purely a salary cap move for the Kings.

I still like the trade with Dallas, Chandler didn't want to play here and Calderon for Felton you do 10 out of 10 times along with getting into this years draft was solid work by Phil.
 
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Kiyaman

Legend
This 2nd round pick was already one we gave to Portland in the Felton trade. The Knicks just took off the 31-36 position protection so if the Knicks don't finish as a bottom 5 team next season they don't lose anything.

The Kings supposedly are going to release Tyler and use the stretch provision on Ellington to waive him to get under the luxury tax. So the Kings are not pairing Tyler with Cousins or keeping Ellington for his 3 pt shooting, this is purely a salary cap move for the Kings.

I still like the trade with Dallas, Chandler didn't want to play here and Calderon for Felton you do 10 out of 10 times along with getting into this years draft was solid work by Phil.


Yeah, I do recall the trade for Felton and Kurt Thomas, i wish we had added Kurt Thomas on our coaching-staff to tighten the frontcourt big men defense.

What Phil forgot was Dallas coach Rick Carlyle had "Tyson/Dirk/Marion" the dominate big-man trio to beat in 2010-11 to win it all.
Phil giving Cuban the twin-tower 7 footer that won Cuban a Chip, should've cost Cuban a first round draft pick, plus taking Felton contract off our hands.

I recall rating Nate Robinson with a few of the East starter PG, Calderon/Nelson/and Felton in 2009, their skills were different but equal a Tier-2 PG.
Calderon PG performance picked-up tremendously under coach Carlyle tactics with having Shawn Marion leadership calling offense/defense plays. If Shawn Marion resign with Dallas (which he will), we will see a different Felton and Nelson PG performance on the court for Dallas.

I dont see the Kings cutting Tyler until after the preseason games.
We didnt use Tyler as a PF playing in a line-up with a center.
The same way we didnt use Copeland as a SF in a line-up with a PF and center on the court.
 

CoolClyde

Moderator
whew, Kiyaman sticking it to PJ before the season starts, what a discontented pessimist. still harping on losing twigs for legs Chandler and fat as f*ck Felton... i won't go into that trade, just very happy we'll have Calderon running the point and Cleanthony Early on this team now.

Ellington was fodder. a fill-in to make the numbers work on the first trade, he was never going to play on the Knicks. Jeremy Tyler proved his worth last season and in summer league, Phil and the Fish had a good look at him in practice as well. someone who could not control his temper, fouled easily and was last in line behind Dalembert, Aldrich, JaSmith, STAT, Bargs, etc - what the Knicks got in return for JT and Ellie were a veteran in Outlaw who can shoot the 3 in the triangle, and a VERY high energy guy in Quincy "The Beard" Acy, who can play offense and defense, can hit the 3, and has good moves. AND the Knicks now have 2 more players to back up Melo if Cleanthony can't cut it in his first NBA season.

If Jeremy Tyler was a fan favorite, Quincy Acy is going to be 10X the fan fave, believe you me.

oh, and be grateful the Knicks did not give up Pablo Prigs in this deal.
Pablo's worth >>> Tyler's worth

this is a win-win trade for the Knicks. as pointed out, the 2nd round draft pick was something the Knicks had already given up in a previous trade, they just had the protection taken off. As PJ has proven, he can come up with 2nd round draft picks on a dime, he is a magician off the court, a procurer of rings, and a genius of bball. to constantly put him down, mainly for signing one of the best shooters in the league, is premature ejaculatory nonsense. give Phil a chance, give a proven winning formula a chance, give peace a chance.
 
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tiger0330

Legend
The brass do like Acy and he did hit 4/8 3s in Summer League but I doubt he's a Knick after this season.

If Kiya hit the lottery he'd probably complain about paying the taxes. He turned on PJ quick, went from his hero to a bum in 4 months and the Knicks haven't even played a game.
 

RunningJumper

Super Moderator
The brass do like Acy and he did hit 4/8 3s in Summer League but I doubt he's a Knick after this season.

If Kiya hit the lottery he'd probably complain about paying the taxes. He turned on PJ quick, went from his hero to a bum in 4 months and the Knicks haven't even played a game.
I had a feeling Kiya was gonna turn on him as soon as he start making up things that he was gonna do lol.

You're the man, Kiya, but come on.
 

nixon7

Benchwarmer
Ellington had the most talent of the players in the trade, but we hardly needed another shooter.

I think we are really gonna love this kid Acy, and more to the point he is the type of scrapper that every team needs.

The best indication is the reaction out in Sacremento:

http://aroyalpain.com/2014/08/06/freaking-just-right-amount-quincy-acy-trade/

Adding a scrapper at SF is also very clever because it is going to push Cleanthony Early (and anyone else looking for minutes at the position) to match the defense, rebounding, and intensity that Acy brings. Even if Acy is mostly stuck on the bench, he helps the team.

I have a really good feeling here.
 
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tiger0330

Legend
Ellington had the most talent of the players in the trade, but we hardly needed another shooter.

I think we are really gonna love this kid Acy, and more to the point he is the type of scrapper that every team needs.

The best indication is the reaction out in Sacremento:

http://aroyalpain.com/2014/08/06/freaking-just-right-amount-quincy-acy-trade/

Adding a scrapper at SF is also very clever because it is going to push Cleanthony Early (and anyone else looking for minutes at the position) to match the defense, rebounding, and intensity that Acy brings. Even if Acy is mostly stuck on the bench, he helps the team.

I have a really good feeling here.
I hope you're right. Every team needs scrappers and good reasonably priced assets. The article alluded to Acy's improvement and that will be welcome, I remember a 15mpg energy guy that compensated for lack of skill with scrappy play last year but that would be great if he became a 6th man off the bench.
 

Broadway

All Star
Pablo's worth >>> Tyler's worth

Which goes to show how over the top some fans were last year, killing Woody for not playing Tyler....considering Pablo has a non guaranteed deal next year and will be 37yrs old.

Nothing will come of this trade. I'm beginning to think Phil was doing favors for these players at agents requests, while trying to get some value out of a deal.

All players in this deal are like the bead droplets inside of a drunk 20oz empty bottle of Pepsi

No need to make a mole hill out of a smaller dust ball of a trade
 

CoolClyde

Moderator
^I have to disagree, every move PJ's made has been to bolster the team, supply cogs in the wheel, back up Melo where the case may be, add a solid 3-point shooter/veteran to the squad and a total energy guy who plays D and can score. it's the little things that make teams great, and PJ is proving his worth with every little deal... Ellington? Tyler? who cares? Outlaw? The Beard? I say OK PJ. do what you can with what you've got; I support these moves, rather than the ho-hum apathetic responses I've seen.
 

Broadway

All Star
^I have to disagree, every move PJ's made has been to bolster the team, supply cogs in the wheel, back up Melo where the case may be, add a solid 3-point shooter/veteran to the squad and a total energy guy who plays D and can score. it's the little things that make teams great, and PJ is proving his worth with every little deal... Ellington? Tyler? who cares? Outlaw? The Beard? I say OK PJ. do what you can with what you've got; I support these moves, rather than the ho-hum apathetic responses I've seen.

Maybe with Acy but Outlaw is garbage and has been for some time.


The trade was.....


Tyler and 2nd(had top 37 protection) for ACY


Ellington for Outlaw


Why bring in Outlaw in possibility of devaluing Clearly? If Clearly is good then Outlaw is utter dead waste. So now it goes back to the above. That pick could have produced another Clearly type of prospect if we have a down year and if ACY sticks he eats up the supposed wiggle room Anthony gave back in salary for 2015. This trade was much to do about nothing.

Phil could have made the trade for ACY a while ago by taking the protection off the pick and absorbing his salary with the trade exception produced in the Dallas deal. ACY is an energy guy on a bad team, not really giving much at all. I like his motor but will not oversell this as some slam dunk move.

News leaked were trying to move bodies and Sacramento found a way to take a smidge extra when it wasn't really necessary.
 

WNY_Knickfan

Benchwarmer
Idk that they got anything extra, Sacramento already owned the pick, yes we took top of 2nd round protection off, but we won't be a last 5 in NBA team lol. I agree Outlaw hasn't been great, but also hafta remember how we evaluate, Outlaw doesn't suck, it's just he had the one big year, got signed to a nice contract he never lived up to. He's not garbage if he's cheap. Acy doesn't eat up cap, making like 915k, similar to Tyler
 

CoolClyde

Moderator
Maybe with Acy but Outlaw is garbage and has been for some time.

The trade was.....

Tyler and 2nd(had top 37 protection) for ACY

Ellington for Outlaw

Why bring in Outlaw in possibility of devaluing Clearly? If Clearly is good then Outlaw is utter dead waste. So now it goes back to the above. That pick could have produced another Clearly type of prospect if we have a down year and if ACY sticks he eats up the supposed wiggle room Anthony gave back in salary for 2015. This trade was much to do about nothing.

Phil could have made the trade for ACY a while ago by taking the protection off the pick and absorbing his salary with the trade exception produced in the Dallas deal. ACY is an energy guy on a bad team, not really giving much at all. I like his motor but will not oversell this as some slam dunk move.

News leaked were trying to move bodies and Sacramento found a way to take a smidge extra when it wasn't really necessary.

i still don't agree with you. Outlaw played on a stupid sh*tty SAC team who have no clue as to how to utilize their players, Knicks needed backup for Melo no matter how you cut it; if Early does well, it's all good, if he doesn't, Melo's got help... it's all about balance. having an extra guy who can hit 3's is never a bad idea in the triangle, esp a veteran; depending on how he's used by PJ and the Fish, you can't call him garbage.

i'm tired of the could have, should have bullsh*t re Acy. PJ made the move when the opportunity arose, accept it, hope for the best, and try to see how the glass is full of competent players, instead of half full of what could have been. NYC often raises a player's psyche to achieve more than he has in the past. neither new player is really eating into salary cap cum 2015, why ru so pessimistic? ru drinking from the same koolaid as kiyaman?
 

Broadway

All Star
i still don't agree with you. Outlaw played on a stupid sh*tty SAC team who have no clue as to how to utilize their players, Knicks needed backup for Melo no matter how you cut it; if Early does well, it's all good, if he doesn't, Melo's got help... it's all about balance. having an extra guy who can hit 3's is never a bad idea in the triangle, esp a veteran; depending on how he's used by PJ and the Fish, you can't call him garbage.

i'm tired of the could have, should have bullsh*t re Acy. PJ made the move when the opportunity arose, accept it, hope for the best, and try to see how the glass is full of competent players, instead of half full of what could have been. NYC often raises a player's psyche to achieve more than he has in the past. neither new player is really eating into salary cap cum 2015, why ru so pessimistic? ru drinking from the same koolaid as kiyaman?


I don't see the trade as bad or good. It's middle of the road.

I'm also not going to applaud every single move Phil makes as you seemed prepared in advance to do


He did okay with the Mavs trade although we rebuffed several offers for Tyson before hiring Phil.

I'm looking for something really definitive, like Phil pulling off a trade similar to Masai with Bargnani on us.


Get rid of one of any Amar'e/Smith/Barg's and bring back something of value and let's get the anointment proceedings ready.
 
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