ESPN Ranks Melo 15th BP In The League

Broadway

All Star
You're right I forgot what a defensive wizard Griffin was


We all know Melo isn't.....

Blake is a better man/team defender, an excellent rebounder and passer for a player who plays a front court position, more athletic and better in transition, better in the paint, excellent finisher around the basket, doesn't dominate the basketball, sets better screens, better off ball, better efficiency, better in the pick and roll etc etc

The only thing that makes Melo better than most players(those who favor Melo) has to do with scoring, his ability to put the ball in the basket which he isn't even that efficient doing.

To laugh at Blake being better or really when looking at the rankings objectively(equal to Melo) is what's laughable.
 

knicksince 93

Rotation player
We all know Melo isn't.....

Blake is a better man/team defender, an excellent rebounder and passer for a player who plays a front court position, more athletic and better in transition, better in the paint, excellent finisher around the basket, doesn't dominate the basketball, sets better screens, better off ball, better efficiency, better in the pick and roll etc etc

The only thing that makes Melo better than most players(those who favor Melo) has to do with scoring, his ability to put the ball in the basket which he isn't even that efficient doing.

To laugh at Blake being better or really when looking at the rankings objectively(equal to Melo) is what's laughable.

Blake Griffin is not better then melo. His stats decline every year and he's super soft. If it was an outright trade we would suffer horribly and the clips would def win the chip

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Broadway

All Star
Blake Griffin is not better then melo. His stats decline every year and he's super soft. If it was an outright trade we would suffer horribly and the clips would def win the chip

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No we wouldn't because Blake would be playing the Amar'e Stoudemire role and he's a great compliment to Chandler because he doesn't have to be in his sweet spots and demand 20+ shots and 30+ touches like Carmelo, in order to be effective.

The Clips winning it all with Melo is like saying....."If I had $1mil dollars I'd be the richest person in the world"....No you'd just be 1 of millions with $1mil dollars, that's it. As of right now the Clips still have a chance to win it all and they don't have Melo, they have Blake. Also you can put any Top 25 player on the Clippers team(SANS CP3) and practically say what you just said in reference to Melo.

A poster from another msg bed illustrated Melo this way.....

Melo is trying to figure out how to get over a very tall wall. He understands he needs a ladder to get over to the other side. So he goes to a shed stocked full of ladders. Instead of finding the 1 ladder with enough length, he takes all the ladders out the shed and stacks them on top of each other against the wall and tries to climb the stack to get over.

That's what we have here folks.
 
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knicksince 93

Rotation player
No we wouldn't because Blake would be playing the Amar'e Stoudemire role and he's a great compliment to Chandler because he doesn't have to be in his sweet spots and demand 20+ shots and 30+ touches like Carmelo, in order to be effective.

The Clips winning it all with Melo is like saying....."If I had $1mil dollars I'd be the richest person in the world"....No you'd just be 1 of millions with $1mil dollars, that's it. As of right now the Clips still have a chance to win it all and they don't have Melo, they have Blake. Also you can put any Top 25 player on the Clippers team(SANS CP3) and practically say what you just said in reference to Melo.

A poster from another msg bed illustrated Melo this way.....

Melo is trying to figure out how to get over a very tall wall. He understands he needs a ladder to get over to the other side. So he goes to a shed stocked full of ladders. Instead of finding the 1 ladder with enough length, he takes all the ladders out the shed and stacks them on top of each other against the wall and tries to climb the stack to get over.

That's what we have here folks.

That millions analogy made no sense and I can tell by your response that you know if melo and Blake swapped teams they would be better and we'd be largely worse

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Broadway

All Star
That millions analogy made no sense and I can tell by your response that you know if melo and Blake swapped teams they would be better and we'd be largely worse

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No the only edge Melo has being on a team like the Clippers vs Blake are in late game situations... the ability to hit that big shot. Some games are tight in the playoffs but the majority of them aren't. Also you play games to win and win by as much as you can not for a 1 possession salvation.

The $1mil example makes perfect sense. Just because you're swapping out a Top scorer for a more well rounded team player doesn't automatically place the team as a lock to win it all. The Top scorer will present other problems for said team in contention. If Blake was on our team we'd be another perpetual first round to 2nd rd max bounced out the playoffs team. The difference here.... I never took major issue with Blake being ahead of Melo on ESPN's rankings, you guys are.

Right now I'd take Blake based on the age factor/salary alone but it's more than likely Tomato or Tomotto at this point.

Back to the money example....just because you went from making 6 figures/yr to 7 figures/yr, doesn't make you the richest person in the world. This is what kills me about the Melo nuthuggers and pillow biters. Look Melo is a better scorer than Paul George but Paul George is the better all around player who neutralized Melo during the playoffs hence his team advanced and not Melo's. I don't want to hear about the torn rotator cuff and torn labrum excuses because he won the scoring title in the last month of the season and increased his FGA from regular season to playoffs by almost +4/gm with those injuries. He was already shooting at a ghastly alarming rate of 22/FGA during the regular season.

Stop being so punch drunk and intoxicated simply because he can score the basketball.

Typical chucker like performance from Melo tonight, in a loss to the Bucks. A game we tried to win that of course Melo Lobbyist slash Apostles will say meant nothing.
 

knicksince 93

Rotation player
No the only edge Melo has being on a team like the Clippers vs Blake are in late game situations... the ability to hit that big shot. Some games are tight in the playoffs but the majority of them aren't. Also you play games to win and win by as much as you can not for a 1 possession salvation.

The $1mil example makes perfect sense. Just because you're swapping out a Top scorer for a more well rounded team player doesn't automatically place the team as a lock to win it all. The Top scorer will present other problems for said team in contention. If Blake was on our team we'd be another perpetual first round to 2nd rd max bounced out the playoffs team. The difference here.... I never took major issue with Blake being ahead of Melo on ESPN's rankings, you guys are.

Right now I'd take Blake based on the age factor/salary alone but it's more than likely Tomato or Tomotto at this point.

Back to the money example....just because you went from making 6 figures/yr to 7 figures/yr, doesn't make you the richest person in the world. This is what kills me about the Melo nuthuggers and pillow biters. Look Melo is a better scorer than Paul George but Paul George is the better all around player who neutralized Melo during the playoffs hence his team advanced and not Melo's. I don't want to hear about the torn rotator cuff and torn labrum excuses because he won the scoring title in the last month of the season and increased his FGA from regular season to playoffs by almost +4/gm with those injuries. He was already shooting at a ghastly alarming rate of 22/FGA during the regular season.

Stop being so punch drunk and intoxicated simply because he can score the basketball.

Typical chucker like performance from Melo tonight, in a loss to the Bucks. A game we tried to win that of course Melo Lobbyist slash Apostles will say meant nothing.

It's not tomato tomatto. He's younger but you haven't said anything about his stats declining each year in the league. The league figured him out and he has no second or 3rd so now they shut out his go to move and he's basically obsolete. What if that trend continues so he only averages like 17 and 8. He's an overrated defender. You were right about the last second shot thing but here's the thing to that. Their all professional ball players, all of them every team has the world's greatest players on them so most games are gonna come down to the wire and u need someone to get buckets or hit fts he can't do either. The fact that deandre jordan is so vital proves his innate ability to guard his man, he gets beat and deandre jordan being the terrific help defender that he is bails blake out. He's one of the softest players in the league

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Broadway

All Star
It's not tomato tomatto. He's younger but you haven't said anything about his stats declining each year in the league. The league figured him out and he has no second or 3rd so now they shut out his go to move and he's basically obsolete. What if that trend continues so he only averages like 17 and 8. He's an overrated defender. You were right about the last second shot thing but here's the thing to that. Their all professional ball players, all of them every team has the world's greatest players on them so most games are gonna come down to the wire and u need someone to get buckets or hit fts he can't do either. The fact that deandre jordan is so vital proves his innate ability to guard his man, he gets beat and deandre jordan being the terrific help defender that he is bails blake out. He's one of the softest players in the league

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Blake's numbers have gone down because of the additions to the team since his 1st full season. Go look at their rosters and you'll see exactly why his numbers went down.

I mean why did Melo go from scoring....

1st yr 21ppg
2nd yr 20.8ppg
3rd yr 26.5 ppg
4th yr 28.9ppg
5th yr 25.6ppg
6th yr 22.8ppg


Noticed he was declining in his 5th and 6th seasons? Why is that? Was he not a Top 10-20 player then based on those declining numbers?

Look I'll agree Blake needs to improve his offense overall but let's stop acting as if he's not a force in the paint. Lauding Jordan's defensive prowess is somewhat of a stretch. It's one of the reasons VDN got fired because he wouldn't play Jordan high rotation minutes and sat him in critical moments of a game, then I'll say how were the Clipper getting interior scoring?

I listed all the things Blake is better than Melo at specifically, a few posts back. You've provided nothing specifically that justifies Melo being better than him. Once again Blake is near an elite level rebounder career wise. Did you bother to look at Blake's FG% since he's been in the league? No you didn't!

This goes to show you're trying to structure this debate based on PPG. Most knuckleheads base another player being better by looking at PPG first. I don't! Insert Paul George/Melo example again

Blake's FG% has climbed, which suggest he understands the game better and knows where he can be effective on the court, hence improved efficiency.
 

knicksince 93

Rotation player
Blake's numbers have gone down because of the additions to the team since his 1st full season. Go look at their rosters and you'll see exactly why his numbers went down.

I mean why did Melo go from scoring....

1st yr 21ppg
2nd yr 20.8ppg
3rd yr 26.5 ppg
4th yr 28.9ppg
5th yr 25.6ppg
6th yr 22.8ppg


Noticed he was declining in his 5th and 6th seasons? Why is that? Was he not a Top 10-20 player then based on those declining numbers?

Look I'll agree Blake needs to improve his offense overall but let's stop acting as if he's not a force in the paint. Lauding Jordan's defensive prowess is somewhat of a stretch. It's one of the reasons VDN got fired because he wouldn't play Jordan high rotation minutes and sat him in critical moments of a game, then I'll say how were the Clipper getting interior scoring?

I listed all the things Blake is better than Melo at specifically, a few posts back. You've provided nothing specifically that justifies Melo being better than him. Once again Blake is near an elite level rebounder career wise. Did you bother to look at Blake's FG% since he's been in the league? No you didn't!

This goes to show you're trying to structure this debate based on PPG. Most knuckleheads base another player being better by looking at PPG first. I don't! Insert Paul George/Melo example again

Blake's FG% has climbed, which suggest he understands the game better and knows where he can be effective on the court, hence improved efficiency.

Dude can barely create his own shot. His fg percentage should climb if all you do is dunk and get transition baskets. And did u suggest that paul George is better then melo too!? Oh brother.... I can't do this anymore. You and a few other posters should just start your own melo hate forum and leave here.

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Broadway

All Star
It was good to see Melo going for a triple dub last night. 22, 9, 7


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When you shoot as bad as he did last night he was inclined to do other things to make his stat line look good. Melo knows how to keep em close to the vest.

It makes you wonder why he doesn't play like this more often....Oh Wait reminder to self..."he doesn't care to play any different producing sustainable all-around results."
 

Rob Low

Rotation player
^^^^This dude shouldn't even be entertained. Just ignore him until he goes away. There's no way anyone believes Griffin is better than Melo I refuse to believe that.
 

Broadway

All Star
Just because Melo is a Knick doesn't mean you have to defend him by default. I mean it's not like he's elevated his play from when he was in Denver, since being here....Player comparisons are what they are and often times it can come down to preferences. I want a player who does more than one thing well on the court and Blake does more things for the benefit of a team than Melo and the number says that he does.

But to switch gears as so many think Melo is the greatest thing since sliced bread here's where I ultimately judge him....Against competition that matters

From Basketball Reference Dot Com

Playoffs As A Knick:
Melo shoots +40%: Knicks are 5-1
Melo shoots -40%: Knicks are 1-5

That's a mediocre 6-6 record and in half the games he plays like trash offensively(his supposed strength)

Playoffs As A Nugget:
Melo shoots +40%: his teams are 15-17
Melo shoots -40%: his teams are 7-24

That's still a mediocre 22-41 record and in half the games he plays like trash offensively(his supposed strength)

In 66 playoff games Melo has failed to shoot over 40% in 34 of them. Does Melo have somewhat of a clutch gene...yeah in comparison to the league he's one of the best at it, although those who are clutch still fail far more often that they succeed. Also the last time I checked players/teams don't win Championships clutching their way through most of the playoffs. I'd wager to say most tight games won in the clutch during the playoffs is probably somewhere between 5-10% if that, of all games played IN THE HISTORY OF THE NBA.


Nevertheless great players.... those who are considerd all-time greats.... the greater majority of them ELEVATE their play in the post-season. Melo has yet to do this in his career over any stretch of sustainable games. You can't pay a guy asking for $26-28mil/yr, who's never even come close to doing so. Stop looking at objective criticism of Melo as hate and accept it for what it is....HE JUST NOT THAT GOOD
 

knicksince 93

Rotation player
Just because Melo is a Knick doesn't mean you have to defend him by default. I mean it's not like he's elevated his play from when he was in Denver, since being here....Player comparisons are what they are and often times it can come down to preferences. I want a player who does more than one thing well on the court and Blake does more things for the benefit of a team than Melo and the number says that he does.

But to switch gears as so many think Melo is the greatest thing since sliced bread here's where I ultimately judge him....Against competition that matters

From Basketball Reference Dot Com

Playoffs As A Knick:
Melo shoots +40%: Knicks are 5-1
Melo shoots -40%: Knicks are 1-5

That's a mediocre 6-6 record and in half the games he plays like trash offensively(his supposed strength)

Playoffs As A Nugget:
Melo shoots +40%: his teams are 15-17
Melo shoots -40%: his teams are 7-24

That's still a mediocre 22-41 record and in half the games he plays like trash offensively(his supposed strength)

In 66 playoff games Melo has failed to shoot over 40% in 34 of them. Does Melo have somewhat of a clutch gene...yeah in comparison to the league he's one of the best at it, although those who are clutch still fail far more often that they succeed. Also the last time I checked players/teams don't win Championships clutching their way through most of the playoffs. I'd wager to say most tight games won in the clutch during the playoffs is probably somewhere between 5-10% if that, of all games played IN THE HISTORY OF THE NBA.


Nevertheless great players.... those who are considerd all-time greats.... the greater majority of them ELEVATE their play in the post-season. Melo has yet to do this in his career over any stretch of sustainable games. You can't pay a guy asking for $26-28mil/yr, who's never even come close to doing so. Stop looking at objective criticism of Melo as hate and accept it for what it is....HE JUST NOT THAT GOOD
i dont think melo is the greatest thing since sliced bread but i do think he is the greatest knick since pat and thats a loooong time ago. so i give him his respect... posters are saying let him walk but being that it took us this long to get anyone of this caliber i ask let him walk and bring in who? build through the draft with...with what picks? or keep him with is the best course to go. keeping him gives us more options then losing him unless he is traded and thats not happening so dont mention it. so you keep him, bank on shump developing and us landing a player next year or the year after through free agency to build with a declining melo in 2 years.idk who is on deck to be a free agent, maybe the get steph curry, he was supposed to come anyway. yall get tunnel vision and think melo is the last person to be a knick like our gm isnt thinking about the future just like we are. and i have news for those gms also have the same ideas as we as far as making the team better. its a reason everybody contract comes of the books in 2 years. we can sign whoever to add to a declining melo. when he is 35 he wont be relied upon like he is now.
 

knicksince 93

Rotation player
Just because Melo is a Knick doesn't mean you have to defend him by default. I mean it's not like he's elevated his play from when he was in Denver, since being here....Player comparisons are what they are and often times it can come down to preferences. I want a player who does more than one thing well on the court and Blake does more things for the benefit of a team than Melo and the number says that he does.

But to switch gears as so many think Melo is the greatest thing since sliced bread here's where I ultimately judge him....Against competition that matters

From Basketball Reference Dot Com

Playoffs As A Knick:
Melo shoots +40%: Knicks are 5-1
Melo shoots -40%: Knicks are 1-5

That's a mediocre 6-6 record and in half the games he plays like trash offensively(his supposed strength)

Playoffs As A Nugget:
Melo shoots +40%: his teams are 15-17
Melo shoots -40%: his teams are 7-24

That's still a mediocre 22-41 record and in half the games he plays like trash offensively(his supposed strength)

In 66 playoff games Melo has failed to shoot over 40% in 34 of them. Does Melo have somewhat of a clutch gene...yeah in comparison to the league he's one of the best at it, although those who are clutch still fail far more often that they succeed. Also the last time I checked players/teams don't win Championships clutching their way through most of the playoffs. I'd wager to say most tight games won in the clutch during the playoffs is probably somewhere between 5-10% if that, of all games played IN THE HISTORY OF THE NBA.


Nevertheless great players.... those who are considerd all-time greats.... the greater majority of them ELEVATE their play in the post-season. Melo has yet to do this in his career over any stretch of sustainable games. You can't pay a guy asking for $26-28mil/yr, who's never even come close to doing so. Stop looking at objective criticism of Melo as hate and accept it for what it is....HE JUST NOT THAT GOOD
good points but that clutch comment was way off. clutch isnt just the last second at the buzzer shot. i would go as far to say its the opposite of what you said and not 10 but the rest, the 90 percent of games are decided through clutch performances and shots in regards to the playoffs. shumps 3s that kept us alive in game 6 all clutch, ,melos 4th quarter all clutch. its the playoffs games are tighter more on the line no blowouts, redefine your definition of clutch as it pertains to pressure and the reg season vs post season. i hate when people bring up his post season failures in denver into a melo debate. when they were the lower seeded team they lost. when he was a higher seed they. battling against the mavs,lakers,spurs, those suns teams, and rockets it was super hard to get a higher seed.
 

Broadway

All Star
good points but that clutch comment was way off. clutch isnt just the last second at the buzzer shot. i would go as far to say its the opposite of what you said and not 10 but the rest, the 90 percent of games are decided through clutch performances and shots in regards to the playoffs. shumps 3s that kept us alive in game 6 all clutch, ,melos 4th quarter all clutch. its the playoffs games are tighter more on the line no blowouts, redefine your definition of clutch as it pertains to pressure and the reg season vs post season. i hate when people bring up his post season failures in denver into a melo debate. when they were the lower seeded team they lost. when he was a higher seed they. battling against the mavs,lakers,spurs, those suns teams, and rockets it was super hard to get a higher seed.


You're being overly technical on the clutch point. Yes I understand clutch can have varying situations such as inside 5min 4min 3min 2min etc etc. I'm speaking in general cases of being clutch 1 possession games, hence I qualified more fine tunely.

As far as playoff failure...I could tolerate Melo's All-Time losing record amongst current players and I believe he's at the top in history, but that wasn't the main point of my last post. It was to point out whether he won or lost his offensive production was more futile than the overall record. I could see if he was efficient in the greater majority of those games and still lost but he wasn't. Which goes to show those who feel he's been on bad teams to the degree he's suffered from overall playoff record can't then give him credit for making the playoffs 11 straight yrs because he's been playing with similar players throughout his career. They deserve credit too. Isn't that the reason fans are upset at Smith and Chandler? For not elevating their play or regressing in post-season last year? Well Melo has done the same.... the greater majority of his playoff career.

Oh and btw the yr he got out of the second round for the first time in his career Billups elevated his play while Melo essentially stayed the same. Check the 2008-2009 stats between the two and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Billups
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/billuch01.html

Carmelo
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html

.....hence Billups finishing 6th in MVP voting and Melo didn't even place, not even cracking Top 12. So this isn't some unfound hate on the dude, get real.
 
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knicksince 93

Rotation player
You're being overly technical on the clutch point. Yes I understand clutch can have varying situation such inside 5min 4min 3min 2min etc etc. I'm speaking in general cases of being clutch 1 possession games, hence I qualified more fine tunely.

As far as playoff failure...I could tolerate Melo's All-Time losing record amongst current players and I believe he's at the top in history, but that wasn't the main point of my last post. It was to point out whether he won or lost his offensive production was more futile than the overall record. I could see if he was efficient in the greater majority of those games and still lost but he wasn't. Which goes to show those who feel he's been on bad teams to the degree he's suffered from overall playoff record can't then give him credit for making the playoffs 11 straight yrs because he's been playing with similar players throughout his career. They deserve credit too. Isn't that the reason fans are upset at Smith and Chandler? For not elevating their play or regressing in post-season last year? Well Melo has done the same.... the greater majority of his playoff career.

Oh and btw the yr he got out of the second round for the first time in his career Billups elevated his play while Melo essentially stayed the same. Check the 2008-2009 stats between the two and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Billups
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/billuch01.html

Carmelo
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html

.....hence Billups finishing 6th in MVP voting and Melo didn't even place, not even cracking Top 12. So this isn't some unfound hate on the dude get real.

Billups and his mvp season was for what he did in Detroit and that is obvious by Detroit playing worse after he left. I don't even know this debate about him being ranked 15th this season has to do with him and billups and everything else that we're discussing

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Broadway

All Star
Billups and his mvp season was for what he did in Detroit and that is obvious by Detroit playing worse after he left. I don't even know this debate about him being ranked 15th this season has to do with him and billups and everything else that we're discussing

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No that's not why Billups got high MVP consideration. The point of bringing Billups up is to prove to you throughout Melo's career he hasn't been thought highly of by other critiques/analyst/media cover guys, hence him not finishing high in MVP voting in many seasons and not making ALL-NBA First Teams and whatnot.

Therefore when you see an ESPN list of Player Rankings, don't be shocked when he's not Top 10. Contrary to what many of us Knick fans feel and players like Blake could rank ahead of him.

Once again he finished lower than 12 in the season he advanced the furthest in his career....Now let me ask you do you think...


1LeBron James
2Kobe Bryant
3Dwyane Wade
4Dwight Howard
5Chris Paul
6Chauncey Billups
7Paul Pierce
8Tony Parker
9Brandon Roy
10Tim Duncan
11Dirk Nowitzki
12Yao Ming

All these guys were more deserving of finishing ahead of Melo. If you answer Yes doesn't matter if you answer no once again it doesn't matter because they did finish higher and guess what ESPN doesn't control MVP results. This season Melo finished 3rd and maybe he's earned such high consideration but not all look at Melo the way we do, or should I say the way you do....


This is no different than John Wall receiving a Max Extension from the Wizards? We all know he's not worth that kind of coin. We can reason why the Wizards felt compelled to offer all the money he was entitled to but it doesn't make the decision a wise one. Melo is not worth 5yrs $130mil and he's not a Top 10 player....so who cares who finishes ahead of him on media ranking outlets?
 
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