Are the Knicks better WITHOUT Gallo?

BleedOrange&Blue

Benchwarmer
I actually heard rumblings about this while leaving the Garden (granted folks were still on a high from beating the Spurs) but people were saying that they liked the starting 5 they saw out there.

Why wouldn't Gallo be better suited in a scoring 6th man role? If he's as dangerous an offensive player as some of you believe him to be (while looking past his limitations because the Knicks marketing department tell you that he is the next big thing) then why not use that firepower off of the bench to go against the second unit of opposing teams?

If our starters are giving it to the opposing starting 5, and then Gallo & Co. are giving it to the second unit, that's a balanced attack over 48 mins. What's the opposition to this? Hurt feelings cause Daniloooooooooooooooooooooo Gaaaaaalllllllllliiinnaaaaaaarrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii needs to be a starter? Why?

I say do what's best for the team, and let's put hurt feelings aside. The coaching staff still has a few more games to make these evaluations but it's more than a fair question. He could be to us what Ja. Crawford and Jet Terry are to their teams. You already have to deal with the starters, and then when they catch a breather, here comes the second unit to drop more buckets.

Quality post
 

MBlackVJesusP7

Benchwarmer
I actually heard rumblings about this while leaving the Garden (granted folks were still on a high from beating the Spurs) but people were saying that they liked the starting 5 they saw out there.

Why wouldn't Gallo be better suited in a scoring 6th man role? If he's as dangerous an offensive player as some of you believe him to be (while looking past his limitations because the Knicks marketing department tell you that he is the next big thing) then why not use that firepower off of the bench to go against the second unit of opposing teams?

If our starters are giving it to the opposing starting 5, and then Gallo & Co. are giving it to the second unit, that's a balanced attack over 48 mins. What's the opposition to this? Hurt feelings cause Daniloooooooooooooooooooooo Gaaaaaalllllllllliiinnaaaaaaarrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii needs to be a starter? Why?

I say do what's best for the team, and let's put hurt feelings aside. The coaching staff still has a few more games to make these evaluations but it's more than a fair question. He could be to us what Ja. Crawford and Jet Terry are to their teams. You already have to deal with the starters, and then when they catch a breather, here comes the second unit to drop more buckets.


Patience. This Knicks team has 2-3 weeks to prove this starting lineup is the way to go. That Spurs game was just ONE win. Honestly I'm a huge Gallo fan, but if bringing him off the bench is going to help our team win more, I'm all for it. But I don't want to penalize him for not playing. We did win 19 games with him in the lineup.
 
I loved seeing everyone play their natural positions and thought we were better off that way. One game is way too small of a sample size, but if this works during the road trip I'd like to see Gallo play a 6th man role. My concern is that Gallo stops being productive coming off the bench.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
We beat the Spurs without Melo, we must be better without Melo.

Dallas is winning without Dirk, they must be better without him.

Knick fans overreact over everything. Sometimes they are the best fans but sometimes they are the worst.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
And for those of you that watched the game last night, Turiaf only played his typical 20 minutes. We still played small ball for the majority of the night.

This has nothing to do with starting a traditional lineup. Williams and Walker, not Turiaf, got Gallo's minutes. Chandler still played a lot at PF and even some at Center, not at SF. I'll take Gallo over Williams and Walker any day.

Chandler, and the other players, stepped it up with one of our key pieces down. This is what good teams with a good coach do. End of discussion.

And this was one freaking game. Sheesh. If we beat the top teams with Chandler playing starter minutes at SF and go back to our inconsistent ways when Gallo takes over at SF, then we can debate this. Until then, drop your desire to root against D'Antoni and Gallo.
 

Red

TYPE-A
So Red,

Will you tell these posters here that have not taken a stance to stfu too?

You started your thread stating are we better WITHOUT Gallo.

But because almost all the posters bring up a different perspective and said bring him off the bench you are forced to change YOUR stance on the matter.

You want to create a thread saying stating maybe there are options for using Gallo differently to include as trade bait, etc then that would be great and informative and add perspective.

You didn't do that, you went right in with the dramatic "WITHOUT GALLO."

So how about you stick to YOUR guns and take a stance.

With

or

Without Gallo?

1. You need to distiguish how I feel about Gallo (which has been documented ad nauseum) from how I feel about how we as a team play with him on the floor

Obviously we need depth, so why would I think we should have LESS players. Contextually, "without" Gallo means not having him -vs- having him on the floor... not, not on the team.

Everyone realized that but you. Because your personal love has you jaded and unable to see the team above the player.

2. I clarified not b/c I've changed my opinion, but to get to the point which is are we better with him off the floor, not off the team, off the floor.

Every team has a drop off when the bench is inserted, so its not a knock. But in my estimation, although we sacrifice his 15ppg, we're better served by playing a big rather than him in the starting line up.

We probably won't have to play from behind as much
We probably will have better ball movement
We get to evaluate his and our other players worth
We get to see what happens when we infuse size and defense
The personal godson, hyped pick pressure is off, and I think that's a blessing. It forces MDA to coach better imo and use more of our assets.

So yeah, I feel we are better without him on the floor. Not that he has no role, but we may be better.

As stated just now on the radio...
This has relevence b/c new factors are coming into play, and our current situation (Melo, trades, rebuilding, etc)

We'll discuss it, then take a look at the results 2-3 weeks from now.

But I suspect, we don't need a 6'10, streaky shooter, who can't guard his position, because coach plays him out of position, while we have another player who is better at his natural position as much as we thought or been made to think.

It would serve the team better to have him come off the bench or used as a trade to acquire what we really need, imo... which is what I said about D Lee and you see the results. Yeah I knew I was right... thought so.
 
Yes we do play way better without him in the lineup, and it will be even more evident in the following games. We can find anybody in this league to contribute streaky points and lack luster defense. Now that he is out of the line up, we can keep our flow/tempo/rhythm of the game up on both ends of the court. I'am so glad he is not playing and hurting our team. His little contributions can easily be replaced but our bench. This will be a very telling time for all Gallo supporters. The truth always comes out....

:gony:
 

nyk_nyk

All Star
I've felt Gallo was a bench player waaay before this game. I wouldn't say we're better without him BUT I definitely don't think he should be in the starting lineup. Reasons being he's too inconsistent, usually only plays good for a half and he's for the most part one dimensional. His 15ppg while playing 30+ min is not going to dramatically alter anything by coming off the bench. Hell, Will averaged more than that when he was coming off the bench.
 
I think if it were any other coachs' decision, Gallo would be a 6th man. We all know the family ties along with Dantoni's love for the 3 ball weighs heavily in this decision. However, basketball purists would prefer a more well-rounded starting lineup.
 
Turiaf
Amare
Will
Fields
Feltip
 
With this lineup you still have good perimeter shooting with added defense in the middle. Remove Turiaf for Gallo and all your doing is substituting interior toughness for more shooting. I'm sure Walsh knows that you have to incorporate a real center to your squad to be effective in the playoffs. The playoffs is all about consistency and the way we play is exciting and even explosive at times, but its not consistent. Relying on 3s is dangerous in the playoffs because its tough to maintain a high 3pt shooting percentage (evidenced by how shooting a % of 37% or higher is considered good).
 

SlimChin

Rookie
We beat the Spurs without Melo, we must be better without Melo.

Dallas is winning without Dirk, they must be better without him.

Knick fans overreact over everything. Sometimes they are the best fans but sometimes they are the worst.


+1 we're not going to be shooting 54%(or whatever it was) every night guys.
 

Red

TYPE-A
We beat the Spurs without Melo, we must be better without Melo.

Dallas is winning without Dirk, they must be better without him.

Knick fans overreact over everything. Sometimes they are the best fans but sometimes they are the worst.

Wake up McFly, I mean LJ....

We've been discussing this for years, since he got here.
The current circumstance I.e we have a legit 1 & 4, adds to the situation which may or may not be coming to frucian.

Posters/ writers make assertions, state opinions, then we look at the data... theory, then application. That's it, not reaction. Gallo has always been limited, we haven't always had a chance to see how we do with better players minus his inconsistent contributions.

Evaluate and let me know using your logic, not your personal feelings.
 

BleedOrange&Blue

Benchwarmer
We beat the Spurs without Melo, we must be better without Melo.

Dallas is winning without Dirk, they must be better without him.

Knick fans overreact over everything. Sometimes they are the best fans but sometimes they are the worst.

Winning is not the metric that must be used to determine whether we are better with or without a player so your logic is a little loose and simplistic. The question is are we better without Gallo? (as in do we play better?) While it is certainly to early to say one way or the other, We did not miss Gallo against the Spurs as we scored 128 points against a reasonable defensive team and our defense and rebounding was better.

Many on ere including myself have been saying that Gallo is expendable for months now as e does not provide us with what we need which is defense and rebounding. Between Amar'e, Felton and Chandler we can score all day and Gallo's value is severely diminished. Gallo is basically Matt Bonner of the Knicks right now, His role is easily filled by Shawne Williams or Bill Walker. So looking forward it might be better to trade Gallo or make him part of the our shallow second unit.
 

Red

TYPE-A
Btw, i'd like to add, I enjoy wins...

But I wasn't happy giving up 90+ points by the third qtr win or not. Its indicative and a formula for long term failure.

And I do realize we can't shoot 67% over a half against the bst teams, I add that to my evaluation also. Keep it funky my n!ggas.
 

Red

TYPE-A
Winning is not the metric that must be used to determine whether we are better with or without a player so your logic is a little loose and simplistic. The question is are we better without Gallo? (as in do we play better?) While it is certainly to early to say one way or the other, We did not miss Gallo against the Spurs as we scored 128 points against a reasonable defensive team and our defense and rebounding was better.

Many on ere including myself have been saying that Gallo is expendable for months now as e does not provide us with what we need which is defense and rebounding. Between Amar'e, Felton and Chandler we can score all day and Gallo's value is severely diminished. Gallo is basically Matt Bonner of the Knicks right now, His role is easily filled by Shawne Williams or Bill Walker. So looking forward it might be better to trade Gallo or make him part of the our shallow second unit.

Exactly, and my bad if I offended you in any other posts.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
Wake up McFly, I mean LJ....

We've been discussing this for years, since he got here.
The current circumstance I.e we have a legit 1 & 4, adds to the situation which may or may not be coming to frucian.

Posters/ writers make assertions, state opinions, then we look at the data... theory, then application. That's it, not reaction. Gallo has always been limited, we haven't always had a chance to see how we do with better players minus his inconsistent contributions.

Evaluate and let me know using your logic, not your personal feelings.


Winning is not the metric that must be used to determine whether we are better with or without a player so your logic is a little loose and simplistic. The question is are we better without Gallo? (as in do we play better?) While it is certainly to early to say one way or the other, We did not miss Gallo against the Spurs as we scored 128 points against a reasonable defensive team and our defense and rebounding was better.

Many on ere including myself have been saying that Gallo is expendable for months now as e does not provide us with what we need which is defense and rebounding. Between Amar'e, Felton and Chandler we can score all day and Gallo's value is severely diminished. Gallo is basically Matt Bonner of the Knicks right now, His role is easily filled by Shawne Williams or Bill Walker. So looking forward it might be better to trade Gallo or make him part of the our shallow second unit.

I'll repost this since you two missed the point:

And for those of you that watched the game last night, Turiaf only played his typical 20 minutes. We still played small ball for the majority of the night.

This has nothing to do with starting a traditional lineup. Williams and Walker, not Turiaf, got Gallo's minutes. Chandler still played a lot at PF and even some at Center, not at SF. I'll take Gallo over Williams and Walker any day.

Chandler, and the other players, stepped it up with one of our key pieces down. This is what good teams with a good coach do. End of discussion.

And this was one freaking game. Sheesh. If we beat the top teams with Chandler playing starter minutes at SF and go back to our inconsistent ways when Gallo takes over at SF, then we can debate this. Until then, drop your desire to root against D'Antoni and Gallo.
 

legend33

Rookie
Hey red monkey ass - why don't YOU shut the fkk up? hmm...

that guy didnt even say shit to you and you explode like a little bitch.

pffhhh, w/e... :teeth:
 

legend33

Rookie
btw, YES......gallo sucks man. for as hard as he tries, he's a streaky player. goes big or goes home, and unfortunately that's half the time.

PLUS he's injury prone...wilson chandler is actually better than gallo at just about everything, INCLUDING 3-pts... lols
 

KingCharles34

All Star
Interesting Read....I read through just about all this thread.

gallo spreads the floor period.....so he is needed, and his shot is respected around the league, no one leaves him wide open anymore. I just dont think he should be playing 30+ mins. 20-25 mins of gallo is all i need for this season. Until he earns more mins, he deserves travis outlaw mins.

This post probably sums it up the best, I could see Gallo being a real nice fit off the bench. I think hes still getting some extra star treatment from his fellow Italian buddy coach. There was a very interesting chart in the gamethread about how our offense is better with Gallinari but our defense is better without him.


<TABLE style="HEIGHT: 130px" border=1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=322><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=102></TD><TD vAlign=top width=103>W/ GALLINARI</TD><TD vAlign=top width=131>W/O GALLINARI</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=102>Pts/48 Mins</TD><TD vAlign=top width=103>108.9</TD><TD vAlign=top width=131>99.4 (937 in 452 min)</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=102>Opp Pts/48 Mins</TD><TD vAlign=top width=103>106.9</TD><TD vAlign=top width=131>101.3 (955 in 452 min)</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=102>Pt diff/48 Mins</TD><TD vAlign=top width=103>+2.0</TD><TD vAlign=top width=131>-1.9 (-18 in 452 min)</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=102>FG pct</TD><TD vAlign=top width=103>48.0</TD><TD vAlign=top width=131>43.1 (350-812)</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=102>3-pt FG pct</TD><TD vAlign=top width=103>38.6</TD><TD vAlign=top width=131>34.1 (85-249)</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=102>Opp FG pct</TD><TD vAlign=top width=103>47.7</TD><TD vAlign=top width=131>44.2 (353-799)</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=102>Opp 3-pt FG pct</TD><TD vAlign=top width=103>38.9</TD><TD vAlign=top width=131>32.2 (56-174)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


So thats minus 9.5pts from our offense without him but our defense gives up 5.6 less points with him not on the court. The gain is not bigger then the loss, so clearly Gallo has some value on this team. Thats just for the posters that are anti-Gallo and want him off this team. But what Toons said is perfect....20 to 25 minutes off the bench.
 
Everyone knows if we substitute Gallo for Mello we are a much improved team. If the opportunity is there you have to jump on it. I doubt that Stat Felt and Wilson will be playing hot in every game, not with this many minutes. We already have Dougie and Turi playing thru pain. So we must add more fire power. The fact that Gallo is out for 2 to 3 weeks with ONLY a Mild knee spain is another reason why this tuff team doesn't need this frail flopping D'antoni son. We will have a better chance without him on the team. You can look at his numbers and see that for yourself...he is expendable. What part is hard to understand?
 

BleedOrange&Blue

Benchwarmer
I'll repost this since you two missed the point:

And for those of you that watched the game last night, Turiaf only played his typical 20 minutes. We still played small ball for the majority of the night.

This has nothing to do with starting a traditional lineup. Williams and Walker, not Turiaf, got Gallo's minutes. Chandler still played a lot at PF and even some at Center, not at SF. I'll take Gallo over Williams and Walker any day.

Chandler, and the other players, stepped it up with one of our key pieces down. This is what good teams with a good coach do. End of discussion.

And this was one freaking game. Sheesh. If we beat the top teams with Chandler playing starter minutes at SF and go back to our inconsistent ways when Gallo takes over at SF, then we can debate this. Until then, drop your desire to root against D'Antoni and Gallo.

Seriously tho, what is your point? I am actually pro D'Antoni and anti-Gallo so your assumptions fail :). Wat i am trying to say ere is tat Gallo is not needed, if we can trade for a big man, Shawne Williams and Bill Walker can fill the role of one dimensional gunner off the bench.

As for your assertion that this is just one game, again your logic is flawed. Gallo has been inconsistent and mediocre all season. Even when he has good games, hes not going for 25-30 points on 50% shooting. He is not a lockdown defender, and he is a crappy rebounder for his 6-10 frame. This evaluation is not the reaction to 1 game but a whole season of disappointment and mediocrity.

Even the sensible Gallo Fans will tell you hes not playing to their expectations and that Chandler is head and shoulders above him right now.
 

BleedOrange&Blue

Benchwarmer
Interesting Read....I read through just about all this thread.



This post probably sums it up the best, I could see Gallo being a real nice fit off the bench. I think hes still getting some extra star treatment from his fellow Italian buddy coach. There was a very interesting chart in the gamethread about how our offense is better with Gallinari but our defense is better without him.


<TABLE style="HEIGHT: 130px" border=1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=322><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=102></TD><TD vAlign=top width=103>W/ GALLINARI</TD><TD vAlign=top width=131>W/O GALLINARI</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=102>Pts/48 Mins</TD><TD vAlign=top width=103>108.9</TD><TD vAlign=top width=131>99.4 (937 in 452 min)</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=102>Opp Pts/48 Mins</TD><TD vAlign=top width=103>106.9</TD><TD vAlign=top width=131>101.3 (955 in 452 min)</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=102>Pt diff/48 Mins</TD><TD vAlign=top width=103>+2.0</TD><TD vAlign=top width=131>-1.9 (-18 in 452 min)</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=102>FG pct</TD><TD vAlign=top width=103>48.0</TD><TD vAlign=top width=131>43.1 (350-812)</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=102>3-pt FG pct</TD><TD vAlign=top width=103>38.6</TD><TD vAlign=top width=131>34.1 (85-249)</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=102>Opp FG pct</TD><TD vAlign=top width=103>47.7</TD><TD vAlign=top width=131>44.2 (353-799)</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=102>Opp 3-pt FG pct</TD><TD vAlign=top width=103>38.9</TD><TD vAlign=top width=131>32.2 (56-174)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


So thats minus 9.5pts from our offense without him but our defense gives up 5.6 less points with him not on the court. The gain is not bigger then the loss, so clearly Gallo has some value on this team. Thats just for the posters that are anti-Gallo and want him off this team. But what Toons said is perfect....20 to 25 minutes off the bench.

I think you make some good points here. Right now Wilson is a superior player and can play SF and PF effectively. When Gallo is on the floor Wilson is pushed into the PF position which makes us undersized and very susceptible to being out-rebounded. With Gallo coming off the bench Chandler plays his more natural SF spot and we get to add Size and rebounding with Turiaf or a potential trade or signing of a big man like M. Gasol or Tyson Chandler. If we were to trade Gallo it wouldn't hurt as he is replaced by Shawne Williams and Billy Walker
 
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