Allan Houston comeback is official - signed to contract

OGKnickfan · Aug 8, 2008

For The Benefit Of These Young Minds

DA"TRUTH," look, son, as a person that was out of diapers, when Sprewell, Houston and Ewing all played, I can tell you that Sprewell was never leader of the Knicks and was often a liability. He would take bad shots, miss most of those and lacked the scoring punch that both Ewing and Houston were capable of delivering. His scoring was inconsistent and not executed in bunches, he had weak 3-point shooting, a weak outside game and was turnover prone.

Allan Houston, before, during, and after Sprewell, always outplayed him, outshot him and was an underrated defender. Houston would always open the game by crushing opponents with two or three consecutive jumpers. And, unlike Crawford, who has tried to do the same, he would usually knock down jumpers to close quarters and halves. He was great at cutting and coming off of screens, comparable to Rip Hamilton. Ewing was always the leader, the most clutch of our shooters. When he was older, his presence was still that of a leader, he was the type of player, who when he sat down, you felt something was missing: the great help defense, the rebounding, the blocks, the consistent 18-foot jumper.

A testament to how great Ewing was is that, even though people, usually those who didn't even watch the Knicks regularly, believed he was a detriment to the Knicks, as soon as he was traded, the Knicks fell a million miles from where they had been for years.

Sprewell was disliked, because of his inconsistent shooting, lack of clutch, and bad decision making. When the chips were down, you could not look to the man. I've always thought John Starks should have remained on the team, playing with Houston and Ewing: he was really just as good as Sprewell, though much more explosive and willful. Sprewell would make you cheer, every once in a while, but you hated him, for his shitty play, 8 times out of 10. Starks had so much heart that, even if he didn't play that well, you saw that he wanted to and that he would leave all he had on the floor

-Case Closed-

-OG going back to the SHU-

GetRealistic · Aug 8, 2008

Lee Nailon. Damn i forgot about him. Remember the year we were like 0-5because Spree was injured and didn't get his injury looked at till like a month before the season costing us the first month of the season.

I remember we picked up Nailon right before the season and he wasn't ever really a good player but for our first win of the season he went off on the Kings and we won our first game. Don't ask me why i remember that but i do. But on a serious note if Spreewell got that injury handled earlier he wouldn't have missed the first month and we would have made the playoffs. We wouldn't have been a factor in the playoffs but we would have made the playoffs.

We we're like 1-8 to start the season without him and finished the season 37-45. I'm sure this wasn't the main reason but it was probably a part of the reason he got traded soon after.

GetRealistic · Aug 8, 2008

Also looking up these stats, made me see how well Frank Williams played those three games before we made that Marbury trade.

Remember when Charlie Ward told Chaney he should start the young Williams and Williams and then Knicks absolutely dismantled teams (albiet only three games but still) I'm not going to check the schedule but one was a huge blowout agians the Heat.

Off topic but still. What do you think would have happened if the Knicks never made that Marbury trade? Obviously Frank Williams was a one week player but we would have had the expiring contracts of Eisley, McDyess, Mutumbo, and i think Clarence Weatherspoon coming off the books. This isn't a hate comment just curious what people think would have happened if we never made the Marbury trade.

Also who were the potential free agent targets that summer if we had the cap space?

MSGKnickz33 · Aug 8, 2008

GetRealistic said:
Also looking up these stats, made me see how well Frank Williams played those three games before we made that Marbury trade.

Remember when Charlie Ward told Chaney he should start the young Williams and Williams and then Knicks absolutely dismantled teams (albiet only three games but still) I'm not going to check the schedule but one was a huge blowout agians the Heat.

Off topic but still. What do you think would have happened if the Knicks never made that Marbury trade? Obviously Frank Williams was a one week player but we would have had the expiring contracts of Eisley, McDyess, Mutumbo, and i think Clarence Weatherspoon coming off the books. This isn't a hate comment just curious what people think would have happened if we never made the Marbury trade.

Also who were the potential free agent targets that summer if we had the cap space?

Ill be the first to say the marbury trade was a bad one. All the expiring contracts we gave up...i agree 100% with you. I defend marbury now because we hes on our team and it would be stupid to get rid of him at this point but it was a bad move by isiah. Even before isiah thomas was hired as gm scott layden was puttin off rebuilding. From the beginning we needed to rebuild...but we kept trading expiring contracts for longer contracts. Because of Isiah the Suns were able to sign steve nash who was the perfect point guard for mike d'antoni's offense.

I was suprised to see Frank Williams dissapear the way he did...i thought he had potential. I remember those games where he played real good. Is he even in the d-league now?

abcd · Aug 8, 2008

GetRealistic said:
Also looking up these stats, made me see how well Frank Williams played those three games before we made that Marbury trade.

Remember when Charlie Ward told Chaney he should start the young Williams and Williams and then Knicks absolutely dismantled teams (albiet only three games but still) I'm not going to check the schedule but one was a huge blowout agians the Heat.

Off topic but still. What do you think would have happened if the Knicks never made that Marbury trade? Obviously Frank Williams was a one week player but we would have had the expiring contracts of Eisley, McDyess, Mutumbo, and i think Clarence Weatherspoon coming off the books. This isn't a hate comment just curious what people think would have happened if we never made the Marbury trade.

Also who were the potential free agent targets that summer if we had the cap space?

If the Knicks never made the Marbury trade, the Knicks would've never made the playoffs in 04. Rather than the Knicks having a 4 season playoff drought(like they do now) it would've been a 7 season playoff drought.

The Knicks could have potentially gotten Luol Deng, had they not traded for Marbury. Luol Deng isn't as good as Marbury, so it wasn't a huge loss.

There was some good free agents out there, but there's always good free agents out there. The Knicks were over the cap, before they signed Marbury, so it's not like the Knicks would've got to sign them.

The Knicks would've probably been even worse than they turned out, had Marbury not been traded.

Jamal Crawford and Allan Houston would've been the team's scoring duo(horrible combination).

Once Houston retired, Jamal Crawford and Tim Thomas would've been the team's lead scorers(an even worse combination than the one listed above).

The Marbury trade turned out to be a trade that the Knicks didn't need, but nothing special would've happened if they didn't trade for him. Allan Houston, Tim Thomas, and Vin Baker's contracts were too huge for the Knicks to have been under the cap anyways.

I agree with MSG. The trade wasn't good, because too many draft picks were given up and Penny Hardaway's monster contract got dumped on the Knicks. But it's not like the Knicks were going to do miracles, had they not traded for him either. Isiah is dum, so he would've figured out another way to ruin the team.

abcd · Aug 8, 2008

MSGKnickz33 said:
Ill be the first to say the marbury trade was a bad one. All the expiring contracts we gave up...i agree 100% with you. I defend marbury now because we hes on our team and it would be stupid to get rid of him at this point but it was a bad move by isiah. Even before isiah thomas was hired as gm scott layden was puttin off rebuilding. From the beginning we needed to rebuild...but we kept trading expiring contracts for longer contracts. Because of Isiah the Suns were able to sign steve nash who was the perfect point guard for mike d'antoni's offense.

I was suprised to see Frank Williams dissapear the way he did...i thought he had potential. I remember those games where he played real good. Is he even in the d-league now?

Frank Williams was good. I thought Jermaine Jackson was alright, too. He was a good defender. I heard Jackson averaged 20 points in the CBA. I wonder what happened to Jackie Butler, too. He was a better center than Curry. I wish the Knicks would've kept him and dumped Curry instead.

GetRealistic · Aug 8, 2008

abcd said:
If the Knicks never made the Marbury trade, the Knicks would've never made the playoffs in 04. Rather than the Knicks having a 4 season playoff drought(like they do now) it would've been a 7 season playoff drought.

The Knicks could have potentially gotten Luol Deng, had they not traded for Marbury. Luol Deng isn't as good as Marbury, so it wasn't a huge loss.

There was some good free agents out there, but there's always good free agents out there. The Knicks were over the cap, before they signed Marbury, so it's not like the Knicks would've got to sign them.

The Knicks would've probably been even worse than they turned out, had Marbury not been traded.

Jamal Crawford and Allan Houston would've been the team's scoring duo(horrible combination).

Once Houston retired, Jamal Crawford and Tim Thomas would've been the team's lead scorers(an even worse combination than the one listed above).

Wow thats an awful awful response. If they never made the Marbury trade they probably wouldn't have made the playoffs that season (a whole four game trip). But they would have cleared so much cap space but letting McDyess and Eisley expire. Also they would have never made the Tim Thomas/Nazi Mohammad trade because as soon as Houston got hurt they would have decided to pack in the season. So they would have been pretty close to under the cap.

They would have had many more options in the offseason not to mention a much higher draft pick. Maybe they would have signed Crawford but also with all the extra cap room they would have had many more options of players to sign.

And ABCD the Knicks didn't sign Marbury they traded for his albatros of a contract, also this time i wasn't knocking Marbury i was simply asking the question "what if". Becuase in all honesty i think it was a huge risk and one that ultimately turned out badly but i wasn't totally upset when we got Marbury, i thought playing at home would turn him around as a team player.

But to me i don't see how we could have possibly been any worse without making the Marbury trade. We made the playoffs once with Marbury i have a feeling with all that cap space and first round picks traded in the Marbury trade we would have made the playoffs once.

I can't blame Marbury for signing the huge deal or getting traded here, its on Isiah. Like i said i was just playing the "what if" game. But the Marbury trade did start the cycle of failed moves by Isiah.

One more thing. You wouldn't rather have Luol Dang than Stephon Marbury?????

abcd · Aug 8, 2008

GetRealistic said:
Wow thats an awful awful response. If they never made the Marbury trade they probably wouldn't have made the playoffs that season (a whole four game trip). But they would have cleared so much cap space but letting McDyess and Eisley expire. Also they would have never made the Tim Thomas/Nazi Mohammad trade because as soon as Houston got hurt they would have decided to pack in the season. So they would have been pretty close to under the cap.

They would have had many more options in the offseason not to mention a much higher draft pick. Maybe they would have signed Crawford but also with all the extra cap room they would have had many more options of players to sign.

And ABCD the Knicks didn't sign Marbury they traded for his albatros of a contract, also this time i wasn't knocking Marbury i was simply asking the question "what if". Becuase in all honesty i think it was a huge risk and one that ultimately turned out badly but i wasn't totally upset when we got Marbury, i thought playing at home would turn him around as a team player.

But to me i don't see how we could have possibly been any worse without making the Marbury trade. We made the playoffs once with Marbury i have a feeling with all that cap space and first round picks traded in the Marbury trade we would have made the playoffs once.

I can't blame Marbury for signing the huge deal or getting traded here, its on Isiah. Like i said i was just playing the "what if" game. But the Marbury trade did start the cycle of failed moves by Isiah.

One more thing. You wouldn't rather have Luol Dang than Stephon Marbury?????

I said the trade wouldn't have made much of a difference and that the trade wasn't that good because of all the contracts that were given up and the acquiring of Penny Hardaway's contract.

Isiah Thomas was a dumb GM. If you honestly believe that the Marbury trade is even one of the main reasons why this team sucks then look more closely at all the moves that Isiah made.

He signed Crawford to a 7 year-contract.
He signed Curry to a 6 year-contract.
He traded Kurt Thomas for Quentin Richardson.
He traded Nazr Mohammad for Malik Rose.
He signed Jerome James for 30 million dollars.
He signed Jared Jeffries for 30 million dollars.
He traded 4 draft picks for Curry.
He traded Penny Hardaway's expiring contract for Steve Francis.
He waived Jalen Rose's valuable expiring contract.
He traded for Maurice Taylor's 9 million a year contract.

The Knicks had Houston under a 100 million dollar contract, and Larry Johnson's contract ran through 2006. The Knicks didn't have enough capspace to sign a superstar, if that's what you think.

Luol Deng is not better than Marbury. Look at the stats, all star appearances, USA team appearances, and playoff appearances if you want.

GetRealistic · Aug 8, 2008

Good God.. Reading your posts make me miss NyKnicks126. Your awful. You still don't get the principal of my original post. I said "WHAT IF" the Marbury trade was never made.

Did i ever say this was the worst trade Isiah ever made? Even though it probably is, i never said it was. Don't you get the principal that if the first trade of this cycle of failure wasn't made then the next 10 steps may not have been made.

You wouldn't rather have Luol Deng then Stephon Marbury? Wow, I'm not talking about Minnesota Timberwolves Marbury, NJ Nets Marbury, or Suns Marbury i'm talking about New York Knicks Marbury. Nobody cares about his career stats. He had great years early in his career, awesome that really makes a difference for us now.

Lets see

Deng is;
Younger
Less Expensive
Better defender
Flat out just better at every aspect

Just cause you love Stephon Marbury doesn't mean you have to stick up for him in every arguement. I know MSG and Metro love Marbury but i don't even suspect they'll have your back on this.

And as far as All star games, playoff games, and olympic teams.

Marbury hasn't made an all star game as a Knick
Deng has played in the second round of the playoffs
Marbury was the PG of a bronze medal team and i'm not sure but i think Deng is British Colombian so he can't play on the U.S. team and i have no idea if he plays for his home countries team.

abcd · Aug 8, 2008

GetRealistic said:
Good God.. Reading your posts make me miss NyKnicks126. Your awful. You still don't get the principal of my original post. I said "WHAT IF" the Marbury trade was never made.

Did i ever say this was the worst trade Isiah ever made? Even though it probably is, i never said it was. Don't you get the principal that if the first trade of this cycle of failure wasn't made then the next 10 steps may not have been made.

You wouldn't rather have Luol Deng then Stephon Marbury? Wow, I'm not talking about Minnesota Timberwolves Marbury, NJ Nets Marbury, or Suns Marbury i'm talking about New York Knicks Marbury. Nobody cares about his career stats. He had great years early in his career, awesome that really makes a difference for us now.

Lets see

Deng is;
Younger
Less Expensive
Better defender
Flat out just better at every aspect

Just cause you love Stephon Marbury doesn't mean you have to stick up for him in every arguement. I know MSG and Metro love Marbury but i don't even suspect they'll have your back on this.

And as far as All star games, playoff games, and olympic teams.

Marbury hasn't made an all star game as a Knick
Deng has played in the second round of the playoffs
Marbury was the PG of a bronze medal team and i'm not sure but i think Deng is British Colombian so he can't play on the U.S. team and i have no idea if he plays for his home countries team.

Honestly, just shut the f*ck the up. I wrote a post that you didn't read, cause you have ADD, and you responded with pure nonsense. I never said that that the Marbury trade was good. You're the retard that keeps insisting that I said that. I actually said that the team would be about the same as they are now, only the team would've had an even longer playoff drought.
When you learn how to read more than a few sentences, then talk.

The more you skip people's sentences on their posts, the more you look like you're illiterate.

Luol Deng has been in the NBA for 4 years. We don't know what he's going to do in the future, so stop assuming that he's better than Marbury, when the stats, playoff appearances and All Star appearances prove otherwise.

You're just a hater, and since I always murder you in arguments, you tried to take advantage. Too bad you used things that I didn't even say, cause you can barely read. It's not going to work with me. I can read, so I know what I wrote.

You're just a Marbury hater, and that's why you even brought up this stupid discussion.

What if the Knicks never traded for your boyfriend, Curry?
The KNicks would have Lamarcus Aldridge, Joakim Noah, 2 second round picks, and Tim Thomas' contract would've expired.

Red · Aug 8, 2008

If we had a player of Stephons talent (even if its limited) but at a bargain price no one would be b*tchin'. His performance doesn't warrant the type of contract he has- that to me is the problem not his skills.
I know [knowing] the past is important to not make the same mistakes but why do many Knick fans live in the past. It's over and done, no more Ewing, Houston, Van Gundy...its a wrap. We made many many mistakes that cost us millions of dollars and more importantly sabotaged our future for years to come..that sums it up. From garbage players to unqualified coaches to bad management etc. I bet we can pinpoint were it all started going down hill (maybe after Ewing left) or maybe we lost a good GM or whatever but lets talk about putting together a competitive team. F*ck all the losers we lost...they couldn't of been that good.....because we LOST. F*ck'em
AND if DAnillo don't show me some WOW f*ck him too. The sixth pick better not be another scrub!!!!

Trin_Starr · Aug 11, 2008

H2O ballin' in NYC

http://www.bouncemag.com/2008/07/25...ricklan-the-franchise-mike-james-memphis-gri/

In game two Ron Artest went off yet again, dropping 44 points to go with ten rebounds, six assists and three blocks, to knock off Dyckman 131-115. Dyckman suited up former Knick shooting guard and Olympic gold medalist Allan Houston. Houston was introduced to Pro City by a heckler who yelled, “Allan I’m a big fan, but if you don’t represent I’ma get on you.”

Houston did his best to keep Dyckman in the contest, but Artest would have none of it. The Sacramento King hit seven threes and threw done a sick tomahawk flush to dispatch of Dyckman. Houston showed glimpses of his old self when he scored five quick points on Artest with a three-pointer in his grill and a blow by for a lay up. Showtime added 22 points for QB and Jarrid Frye added 16 points and nine rebounds. Houston led Dyckman with 25 points and former Kennedy HS star JC Mathis added 22 for the losers.

WAIVE MARDY - SIGN H20 to vet's min
Just f#ckin' do it Donnie!

clumsy · Aug 12, 2008

i don't want Allan. He was never a quick player, and he's still coming off shot knees, whether he took a 2 year break or not. At his age also, he deserves to be on a team that has a shot. If he's on the Rockets i think they are getting their chips this year barring injuries.

Here is a comparision.

Brett Favre to the Jets....shit with Brett it makes the Jests only a fringe playoff team. However their situation is different...because they signed all these veterans that are at their peak already they have to try to win now. WE on the other hand are straight garbage with a mess of veterans entering their prime (tho many of these players seem like they will have no prime...Eddy Curry comes to mind) or diminishing severely....signing a veteran of Allan Houstons caliber makes no sense what so ever. We should try to get younger, expirings, etc...anything to rebuild.

metrocard · Aug 12, 2008

Part of rebuilding is teaching and learning.
Houston is the perfect vet to teach our youngins the NBA game and lifestyle.

You don't put a team full of young dudes and expect them to grow by themselves.

Bulls tried that and failed miserably.

Talent doesn't equal success.

Houston would be a superior addition than Anthony Robertson.

Houston does the same thing as Robertson, but is 6"6 and is by far a better shooter.

Robertson has handles but they aren't even that good to play PG.

Houston will PROVE the doubters wrong.
Its ashame that people turn their back on H20 when he gave us his everything.

Best of luck to Allan and his fam.

Dirk · Aug 12, 2008

bring bak allen and spearwells, and center ewin for fat edy cury, any body to take plavce of curry, i'll take Barney purpel dinosar and put him instead of fat cury, at least barney have energie and mite have some beter moves down low in block

pat · Aug 13, 2008

Dirk said:
bring bak allen and spearwells, and center ewin for fat edy cury, any body to take plavce of curry, i'll take Barney purpel dinosar and put him instead of fat cury, at least barney have energie and mite have some beter moves down low in block

Why do you write like Borat? Apart from a few spellings your pidgin-language doesn't resemble German, especially not structurally. As far as content is concerned: as much as I like Ewing, I doubt that he has got something left in the tank

.

Paul1355 · Aug 13, 2008

I wouldn't mind getting Houston back for one year, that's if you can take the risk of him being hurt again. His knee has been good for 3 years but he hasn't played basketball in the Nba in that time so anything can happen. Some guys always get hurt and Houston became injury prone eventually, so if he gets hurt this year it wouldnt surprise anyone.

brooklyn_baller · Aug 24, 2008

I like Allan Houston. I never wanted him to leave the Knicks. I hope he comes back to the Knicks. We need a vet and experience player to teach all the young players on the team.

Eddy Currys House Special · Aug 24, 2008

Didn't Houston already try to comeback last year?

OGKnickfan said:
DA"TRUTH," look, son, as a person that was out of diapers, when Sprewell, Houston and Ewing all played, I can tell you that Sprewell was never leader of the Knicks and was often a liability. He would take bad shots, miss most of those and lacked the scoring punch that both Ewing and Houston were capable of delivering. His scoring was inconsistent and not executed in bunches, he had weak 3-point shooting, a weak outside game and was turnover prone.

Allan Houston, before, during, and after Sprewell, always outplayed him, outshot him and was an underrated defender. Houston would always open the game by crushing opponents with two or three consecutive jumpers. And, unlike Crawford, who has tried to do the same, he would usually knock down jumpers to close quarters and halves. He was great at cutting and coming off of screens, comparable to Rip Hamilton. Ewing was always the leader, the most clutch of our shooters. When he was older, his presence was still that of a leader, he was the type of player, who when he sat down, you felt something was missing: the great help defense, the rebounding, the blocks, the consistent 18-foot jumper.

A testament to how great Ewing was is that, even though people, usually those who didn't even watch the Knicks regularly, believed he was a detriment to the Knicks, as soon as he was traded, the Knicks fell a million miles from where they had been for years.

Sprewell was disliked, because of his inconsistent shooting, lack of clutch, and bad decision making. When the chips were down, you could not look to the man. I've always thought John Starks should have remained on the team, playing with Houston and Ewing: he was really just as good as Sprewell, though much more explosive and willful. Sprewell would make you cheer, every once in a while, but you hated him, for his shitty play, 8 times out of 10. Starks had so much heart that, even if he didn't play that well, you saw that he wanted to and that he would leave all he had on the floor

-Case Closed-

-OG going back to the SHU-

On a Knick website where bizarro posts are the rule rather than exception this one right here may take the take the cake. Sprewell disliked? By who exactly? Spre by far was the most popular Knick with the fans during his stay here. A liability? He was by far the best all around player on the team always playing the most minutes. Spre was definitely streaky with his shot but he was a far more explosive a scorer than Houston or Ewing. He was also a very smart player with the Knicks, not turnover prone at all and along with L.J. the undisputed locker room leader of the late 90s Knick teams. Just ask Van Gundy about Sprewell.

Houston was very inconsistent during those years many times having big first halves only to disappear in the second. His signature curl play was great but that's where the comparisons to Rip Hamilton's movement stops. His defense was awful, ball handling weak and was just an all around soft player. That said he was an incredible shooter but that's where his game stopped.

This idea that Houston is going to come into that locker room this season and be a leader is absurd. He was always a quiet guy and if anything may lead by example but anything more than that is just not his personality. Houston needs to go to a contending team that needs a 3 point shooter because that's all he can do.

abcd · Aug 24, 2008

[B said:
Eddy Currys House Special[/B];64456]Didn't Houston already try to comeback last year?
On a Knick website where bizarro posts are the rule rather than exception this one right here may take the take the cake. Sprewell disliked? By who exactly? Spre by far was the most popular Knick with the fans during his stay here. A liability? He was by far the best all around player on the team always playing the most minutes. Spre was definitely streaky with his shot but he was a far more explosive a scorer than Houston or Ewing. He was also a very smart player with the Knicks, not turnover prone at all and along with L.J. the undisputed locker room leader of the late 90s Knick teams. Just ask Van Gundy about Sprewell.quote]

You're insane. Allan Houston and Patrick Ewing are better than Latrell Sprewell. Houston always shot better fg% than Sprewell, and Ewing is a 50 greatest player.

Allan Houston comeback is official - signed to contract

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