The plan never changed

well it did in regards to LeBron and we had to go and get Melo as plan b, not something I'm too upset about to be honest since Melo is my boy!

Amar'e was always wanted to run the floor with LeBron with pace, power and offense being the key and that's why MDA was chosen as the coach rightly or wrongly.

So cast your minds back, who was the other piece of the puzzle? That's right it was CP3 and it still is. Don't talk to me about how it won't happen, can't happen etc it was always meant to happen and it still will. Chauncey is a short term answer to a long term problem and CP3 is the future. Why? Well Chauncey is on just under 14m right? Well Paul's contract expires in 2013 with a player option in 2012. At this moment he is earining 15m and he's miserable because he knows he can't compete. You really think that if we use the cap space we have, make a few clever moves and have a team ready for CP3 to step into the void left by Chauncey that he won't be jumping at the chance?

The plan never changed, New York will move heaven and earth to get CP3 but CP3 won't have them jumping through hoops like Melo did and that could be the key as to why CP3 ends up here.

Yeah, I'd love Paul but with another MAX contracts means...

No chance of landing a FA Center such as Gasol, DeAndre, Nene, Chandler or Dalembert this offseason (or ever). With CP3? We'll ALWAYS have the largest 5 hole around. Unless we strike gold during the draft which I doubt.

With another MAX, we won't be able to afford either of Fields & Douglas who will both be looking to get paid down the line.

With another MAX contract? We'll also be in cap hell, and like the Heat... The worst bench in all of basketball, with no ability to improve. What happens when one of CP3, Amare or CP3 fouls out or even misses 6-10 games (see Billups) The Knicks then have no chance in hell to compete.

A 3rd Max contract means we have 3 elite stars & NOTHING else. No supporting cast. No Center. No bench. Worst 2nd unit around. Won't be able to pay Fields or TD23 either.

I love CP3 but he's not worth it. Unless he wants to play for no more than 7M per. 6-7M per & we can talk. Just ask Miami why they couldn't keep Beasley...

KnicksFanFromQueens1985 said:

Yeah, I'd love Paul but with another MAX contracts means...

No chance of landing a FA Center such as Gasol, DeAndre, Nene, Chandler or Dalembert this offseason (or ever). With CP3? We'll ALWAYS have the largest 5 hole around. Unless we strike gold during the draft which I doubt.

With another MAX, we won't be able to afford either of Fields & Douglas who will both be looking to get paid down the line.

With another MAX contract? We'll also be in cap hell, and like the Heat... The worst bench in all of basketball, with no ability to improve. What happens when one of CP3, Amare or CP3 fouls out or even misses 6-10 games (see Billups) The Knicks then have no chance in hell to compete.

A 3rd Max contract means we have 3 elite stars & NOTHING else. No supporting cast. No Center. No bench. Worst 2nd unit around. Won't be able to pay Fields or TD23 either.

I love CP3 but he's not worth it. Unless he wants to play for no more than 7M per. 6-7M per & we can talk. Just ask Miami why they couldn't keep Beasley...

Click to expand...

Yeah as much as I would LOVE for us to get CP3, you make a very valid point.

Adding another max contract could prevent us from rounding out our team and filling other holes. If we do get CP3 I am sure some vets will come play for us for the minimum for a chance to win a ring, but in the end it is going to make it very tough for us to fill our hole at the 5 and add more size and depth to the roster.

Chris Paul in this offense will be something otherworldly. W the spacing, principles and personnel we'll have we can afford to get Paul and run w an average center. If you ask me would I rather have Paul or Marc Gasol/ D. Jordan, i'll take Paul all day.

I agree the plan has always been to bring Paul into the fold. Put him w Amare and Melo and whatever center you want (Yes even JJ, or Turiaf, or a some serviceable draft pick) and other crafty acquisitions and we absolutely can compete for a championship.

ronoranina said:

Chris Paul in this offense will be something otherworldly. W the spacing, principles and personnel we'll have we can afford to get Paul and run w an average center. If you ask me would I rather have Paul or Marc Gasol/ D. Jordan, i'll take Paul all day.

I agree the plan has always been to bring Paul into the fold. Put him w Amare and Melo and whatever center you want (Yes even JJ, or Turiaf, or a some serviceable draft pick) and other crafty acquisitions and we absolutely can compete for a championship.

Click to expand...

Word! Exactly my thoughts!

Let's try to get Chris and draft a solid center this summer.

Magic & Kareem.
MJ & Pippen.
Hakeem & Drexler.
Robinson & Duncan.
Shaq & Kobe.
Duncan & Parker.
Wade & Shaq.
Kobe & Gasol.

You don't win rings with 3 superstars & cap hell. BOS wasn't close to cap hell.

You win NBA chips with 1 superstar & 1 Side-Kick Star; along with a supporting cast of solid role players & a deep bench.

Some teams even win with 3 stars (DET) without 1 superstar on the team. They needed deep depth.

You don't win Championships with 3 superstars, EXTREME CAP HELL & holes on your roster the size of swiss-cheeze. It just isn't happening.

Don't use the Celtics as an example either. Because they also have or had Perkins @ C, Big Baby off the bench, Rondo @ point now etc etc... That can't happen here in NY. We're LESS than one MAX away from being in extreme cap hell. Worse than the Heat because ALL 3 took less money to make it happen. Now their PG's are weak, horrid C & the worst bench I've EVER seen. No way they win a ring.

Melo & Amare is more than enough. Time to build AROUND these stars.

say no to cp3. i dont understand for the life of me why some of you idiots want cp3. (those that look at the big picture)

Exactly. I understand why they dream of CP and a 3rd superstar, and thats because of one reason & one reason only; The Boston Celtics.

What they fail to understand is with three MAX contract's? lol, we'll NEVER have a TEAM like Boston.

They may have 3 superstars, but there is no way they even come close to 3 MAX contract's. No way, not when they weren't put together through free agency.

Rondo, Perkins, Shaq, J.O'Neal, Nate etc etc.... No WAY that happens here in NY. A 3rd MAX would destroy us & leave us in cap hell.

C- JJ (Scrub).

SG- Scrub. (Cant afford Fields)

Bench- Worse than MIA's ever was. (Cant afford TD23).

If either CP3, Melo or Amare get hurt for 6 games? (Billups) we go 0-6. If they foul out during the 3rd or early 4th? We lose every time. If any of our BIG 3 go out for longer than a month? We become the Nets.

All Ewing needed was another top 10-15 star & we beat MJ-Pippen & the Bulls or Hakeem & the Rockets. We were close to greatness with ONE superstar... Now some want 3 & NO team?!? No.

Toons said:

say no to cp3. i dont understand for the life of me why some of you idiots want cp3. (those that look at the big picture)

Click to expand...

Because it is you who is the King Idiot.

Melo, Amare, CP3, anyways...comparing them to Pierce Garknee and Allen? smh.....

If we get CP3 it depends on what we trade, if anything, and at what price.

Of course, only the King Idiot can not see the larger picture, let alone the big picture...and simply grunts, "ooo, ahh ahh ah, CP3 bad, 3 superstars bad, bad CP3 bad"

And please...can we stop bastardizing the phrase CAP HELL. It's getting out of control.

Know what CAP HELL is? It's Eddie Curry, Jerome James, and Jared Jeffries...on bloated, big contracts. That's cap hell.

The Heat? That isn't cap hell. That's cap value being stretched and maximized to the greatest extent.

CP3, Melo, Amare -- those deals don't have shit to do with "cap hell*. Unless you think it would be hell to have a team locked into the future of those three....

KnicksFanFromQueens1985 said:

Magic & Kareem.
MJ & Pippen.
Hakeem & Drexler.
Robinson & Duncan.
Shaq & Kobe.
Duncan & Parker.
Wade & Shaq.
Kobe & Gasol.

You don't win rings with 3 superstars & cap hell. BOS wasn't close to cap hell.

You win NBA chips with 1 superstar & 1 Side-Kick Star; along with a supporting cast of solid role players & a deep bench.

Some teams even win with 3 stars (DET) without 1 superstar on the team. They needed deep depth.

You don't win Championships with 3 superstars, EXTREME CAP HELL & holes on your roster the size of swiss-cheeze. It just isn't happening.

Don't use the Celtics as an example either. Because they also have or had Perkins @ C, Big Baby off the bench, Rondo @ point now etc etc... That can't happen here in NY. We're LESS than one MAX away from being in extreme cap hell. Worse than the Heat because ALL 3 took less money to make it happen. Now their PG's are weak, horrid C & the worst bench I've EVER seen. No way they win a ring.

Melo & Amare is more than enough. Time to build AROUND these stars.

Click to expand...

You're acting as extreme as the anti-MDA fringe...

Can't win a title with 3 superstars? lol...

You act like there is an NBA edict on how a team MUST be built to win. That's dinosaur thinking..ancient and static and not adaptable.

I guess if/when The Heat take down a chip...everything suddenly changes? Like if MDA had gotten past the Spurs 1x, suddenly he *can* indeed win with his coaching?

Lebron
Howard
Amare

No way that kind of team could ever win a chip...violated the 3 superstar law of the nba universe....

iSaYughh said:

You're acting as extreme as the anti-MDA fringe...

Can't win a title with 3 superstars? lol...

You act like there is an NBA edict on how a team MUST be built to win. That's dinosaur thinking..ancient and static and not adaptable.

I guess if/when The Heat take down a chip...everything suddenly changes? Like if MDA had gotten past the Spurs 1x, suddenly he *can* indeed win with his coaching?

Lebron
Howard
Amare

No way that kind of team could ever win a chip...violated the 3 superstar law of the nba universe....

Click to expand...

You're assuming that all three could stay healthy over the course of an entire season even while playing heavy minutes every game. Come playoff game they would each have to play 40+ minutes to make up for the garbage teammates that they would inevitably be surrounded with. They're three great players and would be awe-inspiring to watch on the same team, but what happens when they need to sit and take a breather?

Sons of Thunder said:

You're assuming that all three could stay healthy over the course of an entire season even while playing heavy minutes every game. Come playoff game they would each have to play 40+ minutes to make up for the garbage teammates that they would inevitably be surrounded with. They're three great players and would be awe-inspiring to watch on the same team, but what happens when they need to sit and take a breather?

Click to expand...

Your acting like MDA uses a big rotation,he only uses a 8-9man rotation
cp3
Amare
melo
fields
williams
douglas
jeffries
turiaf
walker


Theres Dantoni's rotation.

KnicksFanFromQueens1985 said:

Magic & Kareem.
MJ & Pippen.
Hakeem & Drexler.
Robinson & Duncan.
Shaq & Kobe.
Duncan & Parker.
Wade & Shaq.
Kobe & Gasol.

You don't win rings with 3 superstars & cap hell. BOS wasn't close to cap hell.

You win NBA chips with 1 superstar & 1 Side-Kick Star; along with a supporting cast of solid role players & a deep bench.

Some teams even win with 3 stars (DET) without 1 superstar on the team. They needed deep depth.

You don't win Championships with 3 superstars, EXTREME CAP HELL & holes on your roster the size of swiss-cheeze. It just isn't happening.

Don't use the Celtics as an example either. Because they also have or had Perkins @ C, Big Baby off the bench, Rondo @ point now etc etc... That can't happen here in NY. We're LESS than one MAX away from being in extreme cap hell. Worse than the Heat because ALL 3 took less money to make it happen. Now their PG's are weak, horrid C & the worst bench I've EVER seen. No way they win a ring.

Melo & Amare is more than enough. Time to build AROUND these stars.

Click to expand...

No offense, but are you some kind of moron?? You don't win championships w three stars?? What about the chip the Celtics already won?? The Celts IMO are the best team in the league. They have solid role players and 4 stars.

What about the Spurs?? They have 3 stars too. Parker, Gino, and TD. stop

Remember players will take less to play for a contender. Plus there are plenty of guys out there that Donnie can trade for/ sign that will help us @ a low salary.

Serviceable role players are not hat hard to get, especially when you have an uber-strong nucleus.

In the NBA you go for the jugular and get all the stars you can, especially if said star is a HOF PG that you want to play in your PG friendly offense smh.

Trust me, we can win w Amare, Paul and Melo an average center and a bunch of solid role guys. You gotta trust me on this..

And Toons.. I can't wait til we get Paul so I can endlessly roast you for your utter blindness of what he would do for this team. You fail miserably in your assessment of this acquisition dude. PEF -- Pure Epic Fail. :invisible:

ronoranina said:

No offense, but are you some kind of moron?? You don't win championships w three stars?? What about the chip the Celtics already won?? The Celts IMO are the best team in the league. They have solid role players and 4 stars.

What about the Spurs?? They have 3 stars too. Parker, Gino, and TD. stop

Remember players will take less to play for a contender. Plus there are plenty of guys out there that Donnie can trade for/ sign that will help us @ a low salary.

Serviceable role players are not hat hard to get, especially when you have an uber-strong nucleus.

In the NBA you go for the jugular and get all the stars you can, especially if said star is a HOF PG that you want to play in your PG friendly offense smh.

Trust me, we can win w Amare, Paul and Melo an average center and a bunch of solid role guys. You gotta trust me on this..

And Toons.. I can't wait til we get Paul so I can endlessly roast you for your utter blindness of what he would do for this team. You fail miserably in your assessment of this acquisition dude. PEF -- Pure Epic Fail. :invisible:

Click to expand...

They could but I don't think we could because the money doesn't add up. The Spurs drafted their stars. We're getting ours in trades and in FA so we can't work out favorable cheaper deals for the sake of the team. Also the Celtics had a drafted rookie talent that they lucked up on and we don't have a group of young starters/roleplayers with high talent ceilings (anymore...). If we get Paul we're gonna be Miami heat 2.0 but with 2 stars whose knees are questionable. No way does that automatically equal a championship.

Wargames said:

They could but I don't think we could because the money doesn't add up. The Spurs drafted their stars. We're getting ours in trades and in FA so we can't work out favorable cheaper deals for the sake of the team. Also the Celtics had a drafted rookie talent that they lucked up on and we don't have a group of young starters/roleplayers with high talent ceilings (anymore...). If we get Paul we're gonna be Miami heat 2.0 but with 2 stars whose knees are questionable. No way does that automatically equal a championship.

Click to expand...

The toast in Miami was the precursor to the moves we've seen and the ones to come. I believe Amare, Melo and Paul knew where Lebron and Bosh would go before the now infamous "decision".

I think they vowed to form there own big three on our team.

I firmly believe we're getting Paul. Somehow, someway he'll be a Knick.

We'll have to agree to disagree on what will make us a title contender..

ronoranina said:

The toast in Miami was the precursor to the moves we've seen and the ones to come. I believe Amare, Melo and Paul knew where Lebron and Bosh would go before the now infamous "decision".

I think they vowed to form there own big three on our team.

I firmly believe we're getting Paul. Somehow, someway he'll be a Knick.

We'll have to agree to disagree on what will make us a title contender..

Click to expand...

Dude your acting like cp3 is the same from last year,plus how do you know that he will stay healthy the whole season?

I want a real team. A dynasty.

I don't want 3 superstars, no talent surrounding our supporting cast, cap hell, & a bench as horrible as Miami.

You cant compare Amare, Melo & CP3 to KG, Allen & Pierce. Boston never had 3 MAX contract's. They were put together through trades, not "MAX free agent signings". Thats the reason why they had guys like Perkins, Big Baby Davis, Shaq, O'Neal, Nate & now Kristic & Green... Because they've nevver been in cap hell. I find it funny when people try to say we'll become the "next Boston" when NY would be in serious cap hell with no ability to improve.

During the Ewing era, we were always one top 10 superstar that could match Pippen & take out the Bulls. Amare & Melo combine for the most star power this franchise has seen since the early 70's. We don't need to add another superstar & put this franchise in cap hell with no financial ability to improve. We have a top 5 star in Melo + a top 10 beast in Amare; it's time to build around these guys & form a championship team.

CP3 has been injury prone. With the addition of CP3, that means we can no longer afford A) a FA C upgrade @ the C position such as DeAndre this summer, B) No longer have the ability to extend two home-grown talents in Fields & "TD23" & C) No way to keep strong talent/potential off the bench such as TD23, Turiaf, Walker & Shawne. Our bench becomes full of aging players & career nothings (see MIA) such as JJ, Carter, Shelden, Mason, Brown, Rautins etc + the Arroyo's of the world. Future pathetic-joke of a "bench".

Forget Paul & his MAX. I take DeAndre (C), Fields (SG), TD23 (PG), a deep bench & salary cap to improve our TEAM over CP3 all day & twice during the playoffs. He's no MJ23.

Wake me up when MIA has a winning record against +.500 teams; Overrated.

It was also sad to see someone use the Spurs as an example for this situation. lol SA never had anything CLOSE to 3 MAX contracts.

Our defense & rebounding ability would become even WORSE than what it already is after losing Fields, TD23 & Turiaf. No thnx.

Tone it down

Toney Douglas is not a point guard and playing him there would signal the destruction of any sort of offensive flow. I think Wednesday's Sixers game more than demonstrated this. I agree the Knicks need a proper PG, but I think they are better off having an above average Center and an average PG (on Felton's level) rather than the other way around.

TD23 is only a RAW 2nd year player. This is pretty much his rook season; never got much playing time or experience last year. He's learning on the fly but it's only a matter of time before he learns how to control, run & lead an offense. He's almost everything MDA loves about a PG. Can shoot the 3 & he's an explosive scorer. Toney can pass too; he just needs time to develope into a floor general @ the Point.

Right now he's getting developed under two great PG's in MDA as a coach & Billups as championship leading veteran PG. The sky is the limit for TD23. Reminds me of a younger Russell Westbrook type of up coming talent. Toney can shoot the 3, nice jumper, can drive the rock & finish either strong or athletic @ the rim & most importantly? One hell of a defensive PG who can limit opposing PG's from putting up strong production. Kid won all types of ACC defensive awards. Best FSU Guard defender since Charlie Ward. Much better offensive talent though.

MDA, Melo & Amare will become a blessing for TD23's future