Can We Win w/ D'Antoni

jimkcchief88

All Star
Dear Mr. Pot Calling the Kettle Black,

Dude, I called you 1 name, Jimqueef because it's hysterical, accurate as you remind me of a bodily discharge blowing hot air and because you try and talk down to people just because you are an old, bitter and out of his prime aging man. You can try to take the high road but it was you who started beefing and name calling in other threads. And it was you who entered this thread and decided to comment about me to other posters. Further this is now your 3rd or 4th post in this thread and you have yet to actually contribute a single thing to the topic. You can't and won't debate me because you know in your core that your aging heart and mind can't match me.

Yes, I posted a Youtube video which shows D'ant coaching defense at a high level, calling for switches, discussing doubling Red and preaching it in almost every huddle. It is more than relevant to this thread and just because I snatched it off of Youtube does not diminish it's merits as you try and assert. In fact pictures and videos speak a thousand words and it was the perfect antigen to the diseased lies that fester on this forum. Good day sir!

I have (master)debated you before and your opinions are wack. Kiya calls you Trillwoman because you are more of a ***** than a *****. Any idiot can put a video on youtube. Wasn't the "pants on the floor" video on youtube. Nuff said. There is a reason there are more coaches over 40 than under. With age comes WISDOM. So put your money where your mouth is. This roster as currently composed WILL win less then 35 games. You seem to feel with all the "upgrades" and great coaching they can achieve more. So if Knicks (barring a big trade) win over 35 games, I will stop calling Trillwomen, and start calling you Real Trill. BUT, if the Knicks win under 35 games, you must stop calling me jimqueff(???? dat's just nasty who think of that crap, oh wait inmature children like you), and start calling me SIR CHIEF. Deal??? Put up or shut up!!!!!
 

jimkcchief88

All Star
First of all why do heck do you keep going on and on and on and on about Celebrity Coach Dantoni????? He's certainly popular among players which is a great thing as they finally would want to come here. The only other "celebrity coaches" I can think of are Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, and maybe Popovich and Doc Rivers. You only become a well known coach by winning. So why keep pointing that as a negative?

Personally I think coaches get way too much credit as well as too much blame. The NBA is a players league. If you don't have good players or suffer through injuries, you lose. Its that simple. Why do you think Popovich always deflects praise by saying hes got Tim Duncan. Btw the Suns won with Gentry against the Spurs because they had better players this year. The Spurs had a gimpy tony parker/ginobili and still gave them some trouble.

If you want proof, look for the Coach of the Year curse.

2005?06: Avery Johnson, Dallas Mavericks, 60?22 (Fired April 30, 2008)
2006?07: Sam Mitchell, Toronto Raptors, 47?35 (Fired December 3, 2008)
2007?08: Byron Scott, New Orleans Hornets, 56?26 (Fired November 12, 2009)
2008?09: Mike Brown, Cleveland Cavaliers, 66?16 (Fired May 24, 2010)
2009?10: Scott Brooks, Oklahoma City Thunder, 50?32 (???)

The media always votes for winners and doesn't take into account whether the coach is actually the reason for the wins or not.

Some coaches have brilliant systems and awesome plans for defense. However, its all up to the players to actually have passion and learn those systems.

Lets make this simple;

1. A great coach like Phil Jackson and Popovich can push a talented team over the top to win a tough series and/or championship.

2. A mediocre coach such as Sam Mitchell and Mike Brown can't adjust to a 7 game series and end up losing their players' respect. They still win a lot of games due to their team having a ton of talent and win COY!

3. ANY COACH WITH BAD PLAYERS LOSES. Media and fans all go with the crowd and bash the coach because they are the easiest ones to blame. It can't be the GM's fault for picking dumb trades or players being more interested in stats then winning right?

Dantoni has an great record in the playoffs with the Suns. Their only losses came against championship teams that had to fight tooth and nail to beat them. Is he the greatest coach in the world? Absolutely not. He certainly has some weaknesses. However, you can't expect to win without good players and this year will be a great testing point. Expect this to be a make or break year where Dantoni can finally prove himself yet again for all those naysayers who constantly ride the seesaw of what the media portrays

Trillwoman is that you????
 

jimkcchief88

All Star
Haha theres something called hypocrisy. You should look it up :boohoo:

Seriously though, perpetrating insults with yet more insults doesn't really help anything. It just proves that you can't respond to a debate without getting too emotionally invested.

Lets at least pretend to argue with facts and a teenie bit of research eh? :beer:

Check ipo adresses mods, Trillwoman has cloned himself.....
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
I have (master)debated you before and your opinions are wack. Kiya calls you Trillwoman because you are more of a ***** than a *****. Any idiot can put a video on youtube. Wasn't the "pants on the floor" video on youtube. Nuff said. There is a reason there are more coaches over 40 than under. With age comes WISDOM. So put your money where your mouth is. This roster as currently composed WILL win less then 35 games. You seem to feel with all the "upgrades" and great coaching they can achieve more. So if Knicks (barring a big trade) win over 35 games, I will stop calling Trillwomen, and start calling you Real Trill. BUT, if the Knicks win under 35 games, you must stop calling me jimqueff(???? dat's just nasty who think of that crap, oh wait inmature children like you), and start calling me SIR CHIEF. Deal??? Put up or shut up!!!!!


Swing and a miss....

1. I called Kiyaman, Kiyawoman first because it was witty and a play on words that happened to accurately personify his bitching and moaning. He copied my joke missing the point all together but you my over the hill loser take the cake! You not only copied my joke but each time you use my tactics you just confirm my father-ship of your psyche. You are mad and every one can see that. Thanks for the props and the imitation of my style! I am touched that such an ooooooooooold man who must have been sonned numerous times over his looooooooooong sad existence would honor me in such an honest way, putting his admiration on display for everyone to see. :cool:

2. You once again didn't contribute a single thing about the topic and are incapable of refuting a single one of my points. I'm not sure what is more flattering...the biting of my style or the inability to even begin an attempt at debating me on the merits. Now you want to call me a child while offering a juvenile bet and referencing some lame American Idol clip. Do you not see what a hypocritical d-bag you come across as? Yeah dude, your years and years and yeeeeeeears of experience has made your wisdom awe inspiring....:teeth:

3. Your Fox news tactics of attacking an opponents strengths don't go unnoticed.(I bet you are a self loathing Republican...AMIRITE?) The fact is the video I posted was not some silly Youtube clip but actual irrefutable evidence proving my case. You can pretend it's something it's not but anyone with half a brain will see right through your transparent farce. That is why you can't debate me on the merits and have to play some silly game of hypocrisy where you project your actions on others. You are a d-bag to the nth degree, Jimqueef the Style Thief...
 
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smokes

Huge Member
I haven't read all 6 pages of this and I don't know if anyone mentioned this already, but there is one clear reason why D'antoni and his system is not effective on the defensive end of the floor.

The whole emphasis of the offense is getting all 5 players up the court as quickly as possible and out "running/gunning" the other team. Every rebound is a potential fast break, every steal/block is a potential fast break.

When you have players rushing up the court as quickly as they can this naturally takes its toll on their energy levels. When you play for a quick score and don't run a half court set the players are constantly on the move. Then when the players get back on the defensive end, they need to rest before the next offensive possession.

This is further compounded by the fact D'antoni runs a short rotation of players giving the players he does play even less time to rest.

Physically you can only have so much energy over a 48 minute game. This system encourages short sharp bursts of physical exersion which are physiologically more stamina draining.

Whether D'antoni preaches defense in every time out is not really a big deal, considering the way he runs his offense has players tired out and needing to rest on each defensive play.

For us to have a truly solid defensive capability, we need to have a more balanced emphasis on offense/defense.
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
Check ipo adresses mods, Trillwoman has cloned himself.....

Dude you're just being a troll :alert: right now. I could see gettn heated in the midst of a passionate argument, but you haven't said a thing on topic. This is a bit unbecoming...
 

iJoe

Rotation player
How about you stay on board for over a year and have more than 3 posts before you have an opinion on how us vets do our thing.

Heh, thats the best you can do? You're just proving my point. Grow a pair and try debating a topic without PMSing.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
I haven't read all 6 pages of this and I don't know if anyone mentioned this already, but there is one clear reason why D'antoni and his system is not effective on the defensive end of the floor.

The whole emphasis of the offense is getting all 5 players up the court as quickly as possible and out "running/gunning" the other team. Every rebound is a potential fast break, every steal/block is a potential fast break.

When you have players rushing up the court as quickly as they can this naturally takes its toll on their energy levels. When you play for a quick score and don't run a half court set the players are constantly on the move. Then when the players get back on the defensive end, they need to rest before the next offensive possession.

This is further compounded by the fact D'antoni runs a short rotation of players giving the players he does play even less time to rest.

Physically you can only have so much energy over a 48 minute game. This system encourages short sharp bursts of physical exersion which are physiologically more stamina draining.

Whether D'antoni preaches defense in every time out is not really a big deal, considering the way he runs his offense has players tired out and needing to rest on each defensive play.

For us to have a truly solid defensive capability, we need to have a more balanced emphasis on offense/defense.


:agreed:
This was a top subject during the midseason of Dantoni's first Knick season when he ran a 6-Man rotation. The players were tired/aghausted by the 4th quarter.
Donnie Walsh had to notice this too, so he added Douglas/Hughes for the Backcourt and added Hill/Darko for the Frontcourt for Dantoni's second season. Plus Walsh made Eddy Curry workout and lose 20 pounds in the offseason to get into playing shape for the 2009-10 season.
Adding these players did not make the Knicks a playoff team, but it did add more depth and a 8+ man rotation of a complete lineup to the previous 32 win season 6-man rotation for a 38 to 40 win 2009-10 season.

Coach Dantoni DNP all of the above additional players plus DNP our energy 6th man off the bench, Nate couldve use some fresh leg players in his lineup off the bench.
 

jimkcchief88

All Star
Swing and a miss....

1. I called Kiyaman, Kiyawoman first because it was witty and a play on words that happened to accurately personify his bitching and moaning. He copied my joke missing the point all together but you my over the hill loser take the cake! You not only copied my joke but each time you use my tactics you just confirm my father-ship of your psyche. You are mad and every one can see that. Thanks for the props and the imitation of my style! I am touched that such an ooooooooooold man who must have been sonned numerous times over his looooooooooong sad existence would honor me in such an honest way, putting his admiration on display for everyone to see. :cool:

2. You once again didn't contribute a single thing about the topic and are incapable of refuting a single one of my points. I'm not sure what is more flattering...the biting of my style or the inability to even begin an attempt at debating me on the merits. Now you want to call me a child while offering a juvenile bet and referencing some lame American Idol clip. Do you not see what a hypocritical d-bag you come across as? Yeah dude, your years and years and yeeeeeeears of experience has made your wisdom awe inspiring....:teeth:

3. Your Fox news tactics of attacking an opponents strengths don't go unnoticed.(I bet you are a self loathing Republican...AMIRITE?) The fact is the video I posted was not some silly Youtube clip but actual irrefutable evidence proving my case. You can pretend it's something it's not but anyone with half a brain will see right through your transparent farce. That is why you can't debate me on the merits and have to play some silly game of hypocrisy where you project your actions on others. You are a d-bag to the nth degree, Jimqueef the Style Thief...

And you never answered my bet Trillwoman.... 35 games more or less.... put up or shut up .... If you have so much faith in this team, your coach, your youtube videos, our new "all-star", then bet me. You are great at slinging stupid names like the shrimp on the playground hiding on the other side of the slide, but this is where the rubber meets the road. PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR BIG MOUTH IS......PUT YOUR REP(OR LACK THEREOF) ON THIS TEAM AS CURRENTLY COMPRISED AND COACHED
 

jimkcchief88

All Star
I haven't read all 6 pages of this and I don't know if anyone mentioned this already, but there is one clear reason why D'antoni and his system is not effective on the defensive end of the floor.

The whole emphasis of the offense is getting all 5 players up the court as quickly as possible and out "running/gunning" the other team. Every rebound is a potential fast break, every steal/block is a potential fast break.

When you have players rushing up the court as quickly as they can this naturally takes its toll on their energy levels. When you play for a quick score and don't run a half court set the players are constantly on the move. Then when the players get back on the defensive end, they need to rest before the next offensive possession.

This is further compounded by the fact D'antoni runs a short rotation of players giving the players he does play even less time to rest.

Physically you can only have so much energy over a 48 minute game. This system encourages short sharp bursts of physical exersion which are physiologically more stamina draining.

Whether D'antoni preaches defense in every time out is not really a big deal, considering the way he runs his offense has players tired out and needing to rest on each defensive play.

For us to have a truly solid defensive capability, we need to have a more balanced emphasis on offense/defense.

Thank you smokes for once a voice of reason. It is truly a paradox to think that a coach that wants you to get a shot off in 7 sec or less leaving most of the shot clock coaches defense. You have to be an idiot for TRILL to believe that. There is such a thing as ball control and clock mananagement, which the Knicks have none. The Knicks were 23rd out of 30 teams in three major defensive catagories: rebounds, blocks, steals. Sometimes stats don't lie. Forget about some youtube videos. Stats will tell the truth about this team and how D'ant coaches it.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
I haven't read all 6 pages of this and I don't know if anyone mentioned this already, but there is one clear reason why D'antoni and his system is not effective on the defensive end of the floor.

The whole emphasis of the offense is getting all 5 players up the court as quickly as possible and out "running/gunning" the other team. Every rebound is a potential fast break, every steal/block is a potential fast break.

When you have players rushing up the court as quickly as they can this naturally takes its toll on their energy levels. When you play for a quick score and don't run a half court set the players are constantly on the move. Then when the players get back on the defensive end, they need to rest before the next offensive possession.

This is further compounded by the fact D'antoni runs a short rotation of players giving the players he does play even less time to rest.

Physically you can only have so much energy over a 48 minute game. This system encourages short sharp bursts of physical exersion which are physiologically more stamina draining.

Whether D'antoni preaches defense in every time out is not really a big deal, considering the way he runs his offense has players tired out and needing to rest on each defensive play.

For us to have a truly solid defensive capability, we need to have a more balanced emphasis on offense/defense.

Smokes, I appreciate this post since you are at least trying to present a rationale that is on topic but you forget two things.

1. This is a matter of conditioning and it goes both ways. Simply put, if the Knicks run this system nightly they will be in better condition then their opponents and run them ragged. You forget that there will be two teams on the court and the Knicks will be the ones controlling the pace and having the conditioning to outlast their opponent. That gives us a distinct advantage on BOTH ends of the court.

2.Citing a perceived downside to a system is very different then claiming D'ant doesn't coach or care about defense like some on this forum believe.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
And you never answered my bet Trillwoman.... 35 games more or less.... put up or shut up .... If you have so much faith in this team, your coach, your youtube videos, our new "all-star", then bet me. You are great at slinging stupid names like the shrimp on the playground hiding on the other side of the slide, but this is where the rubber meets the road. PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR BIG MOUTH IS......PUT YOUR REP(OR LACK THEREOF) ON THIS TEAM AS CURRENTLY COMPRISED AND COACHED

Jimqueef the Style Thief, you are a loser and everyone can see that. Keep fixating on some stupid bet all while betting AGAINST a team you claim to be a fan of. You are a sad old man acting like a prepubescent schoolboy who runs around and tries to show off his first 3 inch erection. :thumbsup:

You can't help but show your disdain for the Knicks and your inability to talk about the subject in a competent way so you resort to nonsense all while continuing to look like a d-bag hypocrite. Do us all a favor and go masturbate to Eddy Curry's pics for the 1000th time and leave this forum to the real Knick fans. Thanks!
 
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TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Thank you smokes for once a voice of reason. It is truly a paradox to think that a coach that wants you to get a shot off in 7 sec or less leaving most of the shot clock coaches defense. You have to be an idiot for TRILL to believe that. There is such a thing as ball control and clock mananagement, which the Knicks have none. The Knicks were 23rd out of 30 teams in three major defensive catagories: rebounds, blocks, steals. Sometimes stats don't lie. Forget about some youtube videos. Stats will tell the truth about this team and how D'ant coaches it.


Well lookey here...it took someone else to make a point for you to attempt sounding knowledgeable. How about you try to think for yourself Old Yeller? Too bad I made a strong counterpoint in my post towards Smokes that your feeble brain was too stupid to anticipate.

We had terrible stats on defense because we had terrible defenders and kept losing chemistry with each trade. I bet you think Larry Brown could have come in and made us a good defensive team...oh wait! Larry Brown, a future hall of fame coach and defensive specialist led us to a 23-59 record and we gave up 102.00 pts a game. (27th in league and same as 2010) But...but how could this be!? I'll tell you nimrod...because our roster sucked just like it did since D'ant took over as coach. Effing moron!
 
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TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Lenny Wilkens, Larry Brown and Isiah Thomas all had losing records with the Knicks yet had marginally better rosters than D'ant. D'ant while not perfect presided over a two year rebuilding and cap shedding plan yet gets hated on by clueless so called fans. SMFH!
 

KBlack25

Starter
Well lookey here...it took someone else to make a point for you to attempt sounding knowledgeable. How about you try to think for yourself Old Yeller? Too bad I made a strong counterpoint in my post towards Smokes that your feeble brain was too stupid to anticipate.

We had terrible stats on defense because we had terrible defenders and kept losing chemistry with each trade. I bet you think Larry Brown could have come in and made us a good defensive team...oh wait! Larry Brown, a future hall of fame coach and defensive specialist led us to a 23-59 record and we gave up 102.00 pts a game. (27th in league and same as 2010) But...but how could this be!? I'll tell you nimrod...because our roster sucked just like it did since D'ant took over as coach. Effing moron!

Listen Trill

We have celebrity coach Damnphony there mucking everything up. Nevermind the fact that the goal of last season was to audition players to trade them, and that fact was open and obvious to everyone in the blue and orange last year.

DAMPHONY DIDN'T PLAY DARKO!!!!! HOW CAN THIS POSSIBLY BE?!?!?! He was overall #2 draft pick and if you listen to my conspiracy theory, it was all done out of spite because Damphony wanted his Godson Gallinari, who is at best an end-of-the-bench player in this league, to be the best European on the team. Proof? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN PROOF!

We must sign PF/C Earl Barron otherwise our team is totally doomed. Look, just because nobody wants him (which is why he is a free agent) I know that secretly this is all a ploy to give us the next Hakeem Olajuwon.

Why do you think we had such bad defense? Because James Dolan and Stephon Marbury convinced all of our players to just stand around so that they could fire Larry Brown!!! It has nothing to do with the talent at all!

The fact that these past 2 seasons were auditions for the trade deadline to clear cap space and gain flexibility means absolutely nothing to me! We had JAMAL CRAWFORD FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! We should have been a 50-win team!!!!! Walsh and Damnphony is lying to you peoples. They don't care about winning, that's why they took on one of the most difficult tasks in the NBA, turning around the New York Knicks. All they care about is getting their celebrity and popularity up. Why do you think they keep purposely losing? To get a better contract elsewhere because Damphony is a celebrity coach (a term which I still have not defined)!!!!!! Forget the fact that when Walsh got here he said his main goal was to attain cap flexibility to rebuild via free agency (a goal which he attained), this was all a ploy to create super human robotic NBA players for his OWN franchise he is bringing to midwest basketball-starved St. Louis...can't you read between the lines!

I have more conspiracy theories if you would like to hear them.

(end Kiyaman rant)


------------

This is what you idiots sound like.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Listen Trill

We have celebrity coach Damnphony there mucking everything up. Nevermind the fact that the goal of last season was to audition players to trade them, and that fact was open and obvious to everyone in the blue and orange last year.

DAMPHONY DIDN'T PLAY DARKO!!!!! HOW CAN THIS POSSIBLY BE?!?!?! He was overall #2 draft pick and if you listen to my conspiracy theory, it was all done out of spite because Damphony wanted his Godson Gallinari, who is at best an end-of-the-bench player in this league, to be the best European on the team. Proof? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN PROOF!

We must sign PF/C Earl Barron otherwise our team is totally doomed. Look, just because nobody wants him (which is why he is a free agent) I know that secretly this is all a ploy to give us the next Hakeem Olajuwon.

Why do you think we had such bad defense? Because James Dolan and Stephon Marbury convinced all of our players to just stand around so that they could fire Larry Brown!!! It has nothing to do with the talent at all!

I have more conspiracy theories if you would like to hear them.

(end Kiyaman rant)


------------

This is what you idiots sound like.

LOL...true, sad and funny at the same time.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
Listen Trill

We have celebrity coach Damnphony there mucking everything up. Nevermind the fact that the goal of last season was to audition players to trade them, and that fact was open and obvious to everyone in the blue and orange last year.
:boohoo:
DAMPHONY DIDN'T PLAY DARKO!!!!! HOW CAN THIS POSSIBLY BE?!?!?! He was overall #2 draft pick and if you listen to my conspiracy theory, it was all done out of spite because Damphony wanted his Godson Gallinari, who is at best an end-of-the-bench player in this league, to be the best European on the team. Proof? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN PROOF!
:boohoo:
We must sign PF/C Earl Barron otherwise our team is totally doomed. Look, just because nobody wants him (which is why he is a free agent) I know that secretly this is all a ploy to give us the next Hakeem Olajuwon.
:boohoo:
Why do you think we had such bad defense? Because James Dolan and Stephon Marbury convinced all of our players to just stand around so that they could fire Larry Brown!!! It has nothing to do with the talent at all!
:boohoo:
The fact that these past 2 seasons were auditions for the trade deadline to clear cap space and gain flexibility means absolutely nothing to me! We had JAMAL CRAWFORD FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! We should have been a 50-win team!!!!! Walsh and Damnphony is lying to you peoples. They don't care about winning, that's why they took on one of the most difficult tasks in the NBA, turning around the New York Knicks. All they care about is getting their celebrity and popularity up. Why do you think they keep purposely losing? To get a better contract elsewhere because Damphony is a celebrity coach (a term which I still have not defined)!!!!!! Forget the fact that when Walsh got here he said his main goal was to attain cap flexibility to rebuild via free agency (a goal which he attained), this was all a ploy to create super human robotic NBA players for his OWN franchise he is bringing to midwest basketball-starved St. Louis...can't you read between the lines!
:boohoo:
I have more conspiracy theories if you would like to hear them

This is what you idiots sound like.
:boohoo:

K-Black....u and I been going at it for 2 years without any sillyshuuuut.
now u lost your mind from me being pessimistically right for 2 seasons
to the point of this silly@ss post above wid my name on it. com'on dont
change-up on a real MF...er like me
u could just stick with the clearing-cap reason for every subject,
it suit u best. let Kiya be Kiya and
leave the subject of players/coaches/ and trades to every one else.
Shaq already proved Damtoni is clueless of coaching a center.
Crawful was the best trade Walsh made as the Knick president.
Or do u think our cap space of Felton/Randolph/Amare has become Steve
Nash to bring Damntoni backup to "celebrity status".
Steve Nash ran the SSOL system last season in Phoenix, and will run it this
upcoming season too. will celebrity coach Damnphony finally run his famous
SSOL system in his 3rd season with the Knicks?
Whats the name of Larry Brown system again???
:teeth::beer::teeth:
 
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