Will the Knicks Take a Chance on Artest? (Newsday Column)

Scribbles · May 10, 2009

Well we had the 3 page convo about his pros and cons. I came across this artcle from a few days ago on Ron Artest.

Artest has that black-sneaker Knick mentality of the past

When the Kings were looking to deal Ron Artest last summer, of course they came calling to the Knicks, who, during Isiah Thomas' tenure, were rumored to want him. But Donnie Walsh, who had Artest in Indiana and dealt him away out of necessity following the Malice at the Palace, declined. We envision Walsh, who was knee-deep in Stephon Marbury, quoting Jack Nicholson's character in As Good As It Gets:

"Sell crazy someplace else. We're all stocked up here."

Perhaps it was just never meant to be. But as you watch Artest battle like he has in the playoffs, stand up for himself and his teammates, speak with such entertaining candor, you can just tell he grew up on the old black-sneaker Knicks of the 1990s.

And wherever he learned to play this game is the meanest place on the planet.

Just listen to this story he told after the game last night:

<object width="425" height="344">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z3_xmYLBnnA&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object></p> A year after passing on Artest last summer, Marbury is gone and the need for the type of gritty defense that only belongs in those black sneakers (remember when they used to symbolize the playoffs?) is so vividly evident that perhaps Walsh would reconsider Artest, who will be an unrestricted free agent this summer.

First, the reality: Artest, who has brought his snarl to the Rockets series with the Lakers (tied 1-1), will be looking for a lot more than the $5.8M mid-level exception, which is the best the Knicks can do for a free agent. Artest made $7.4M this season and, at 29, is still very much in his prime. His ability to play rugged defense, willingness to use his body and a fairly-consistent ability to score should motivate the Houston Rockets to re-sign him (they own his Bird Rights) to a better number than the MLE.
[Bloghost note: He may have been ejected in Game 2 for his confrontation with Kobe Bryant, but by making an issue of it he may have forced the NBA to scrutinize Bryant's elbow and suspend him for Game 3.]
There is the option of a sign-and-trade, but the 2010 Plan wouldn't allow that kind of a move. Of course things could change with that 2010 Plan quickly if LeBron and D-Wade both sign extensions this summer. Things would change dramatically.

We don't need to explain the history here with Artest. By now, all Knick fans know too well about Ed Tapscott and the 1999 draft and Fredric Weis. Artest still bears the scars of that night and the pride of Queensbridge still longs to one day be in orange-and-blue.

As he's shown with the Rockets, he's a great supporting-cast piece in the right situation. I believe Walsh was correct to avoid bringing him in this past season, considering the demolition that needed to take place. Artest is better off in a successful environment. He would be far too unsettled to endure a rebuild like this. To start the season with Artest and Marbury under the same roof would have been too combustible (ol' Starberman would have giddily typed his fingers off with all the sensational quoteage).
It turns out the move to Houston was best for Artest, who is back in the playoffs, where he can be the most effective as a stopper and an energy booster.

But the Knicks could sure use him, especially if they wind up not getting LeBron and still have to face him four times a season.

Just bloggin.

What do you guys think?

I'd be glad to have Artest here and I know Ron Artest would absolutely die to be a Knick. If it's anywhere you can change your perception or image it's NYC baby.

Ask Latrell.

Ron Artest > Amare

donchris · May 10, 2009

There's no question that Artest is talented and tough as nails. Who would have thought that he would put Houston on his back with an injured TMac and now Ming. But the thing to keep in mind is that Houston has a solid team with solid team chemistry. Put these players on different teams and you wouldn't necessarily get the same result.

It would be interesting to see Artest in NY but who do you part with to get him? Harrington? Chandler? We are loaded with small forwards. Knicks top priority should be a leader and a floor general. To me getting a guy like Artest is faze two or three. Shot blocking and floor leadership are more important in my view.

metrocard · May 11, 2009

donchris said:
There's no question that Artest is talented and tough as nails. Who would have thought that he would put Houston on his back with an injured TMac and now Ming.

Me.

Ron Artest always been a top ten player in my eyes, and the 2nd best SF in the NBA behind Lebron.

Kiyaman · May 11, 2009

As much as I LUV Ron Artest and been wanting his performance in a Knick uniform since 1999.
I wish Artest the best in getting a 5 to 6 year contract at $13M to $16M per this offseason to a team that will give him a decent future after he hang up his sneakers.

The last thing I want for Ron Artest is to hook backup with a back-stabbing snake in the grass Donnie Walsh....whom started and advocated all the bad publicity on Ron Artest in the NBA (Today), just to resign him at a cheap price when it was plain to see that Ron Artest was the best overall player on the Indiana Pacers.

The first bad incident Ron Artest had in the NBA was kicking over a monitor going into the lockerroom after a sorry loss to the Knicks in MSG inwhich Artest was a one man show beating the Knicks throughout the first 3 quarters to lose the game in crunchtime with Kurt Thomas out playing J.O'Neal and Reggie Miller not playing any defense on Spree or Houston.
Ron Artest took that loss very emotionally, and his teammates Miller & J.O'Neal, coach Isiah, and Donnie Walsh said nothing good in behalf of the emotional kicking of the monitors in MSG....they let the N.Y. media and Stu Jackson hog-tie a rope around Artest and dragged him through the mud for four months as an uncontrol player in the league.
But the first week in July of FA signings Donnie Walsh resigned Artest to a 6 year contract for less than half of his worth.

Then to top that off....Ron Artest went personally to Donnie Walsh during the preseason and asked for a few weeks off during the regular season to be able to promote his production of "Hip Hop" (inwhich we all know certain people in this country Hate "Hip Hop and Rap" with the most strongest passion they have) so it could be released around the All-Star Game which Artest knew he would make again. All-Star players asking management for time off during the regular season for this or that is not something new in the NBA.
And what do Donnie Walsh go and do? Walsh goes and leak Artest request to him to the press in a way that makes Artest look bad.
Now if the request was for a multi-million dollar endorsement like a Nike commecial where Walsh could've made him some side money it would've been a different story.

You reap what you sow....after Walsh leaked that story to the press making Ron Artest look bad....a couple games later became the Detroit Piston Brawl where Ron Artest showed how easy it was to beat the Championship Detroit Pistons. The Indiana Pacers was destined to be in the Finals, without Artest it still took the Pistons 7 games to beat coach Rick Carlisle Pacer to get to the Finals that season.

Donnie Walsh = :barf:

metrocard · May 11, 2009

Kiyaman said:
As much as I LUV Ron Artest and been wanting his performance in a Knick uniform since 1999.
I wish Artest the best in getting a 5 to 6 year contract at $13M to $16M per this offseason to a team that will give him a decent future after he hang up his sneakers.

The last thing I want for Ron Artest is to hook backup with a back-stabbing snake in the grass Donnie Walsh....whom started and advocated all the bad publicity on Ron Artest in the NBA (Today), just to resign him at a cheap price when it was plain to see that Ron Artest was the best overall player on the Indiana Pacers.

The first bad incident Ron Artest had in the NBA was kicking over a monitor going into the lockerroom after a sorry loss to the Knicks in MSG inwhich Artest was a one man show beating the Knicks throughout the first 3 quarters to lose the game in crunchtime with Kurt Thomas out playing J.O'Neal and Reggie Miller not playing any defense on Spree or Houston.
Ron Artest took that loss very emotionally, and his teammates Miller & J.O'Neal, coach Isiah, and Donnie Walsh said nothing good in behalf of the emotional kicking of the monitors in MSG....they let the N.Y. media and Stu Jackson hog-tie a rope around Artest and dragged him through the mud for four months as an uncontrol player in the league.
But the first week in July of FA signings Donnie Walsh resigned Artest to a 6 year contract for less than half of his worth.

Then to top that off....Ron Artest went personally to Donnie Walsh during the preseason and asked for a few weeks off during the regular season to be able to promote his production of "Hip Hop" (inwhich we all know certain people in this country Hate "Hip Hop and Rap" with the most strongest passion they have) so it could be released around the All-Star Game which Artest knew he would make again. All-Star players asking management for time off during the regular season for this or that is not something new in the NBA.
And what do Donnie Walsh go and do? Walsh goes and leak Artest request to him to the press in a way that makes Artest look bad.
Now if the request was for a multi-million dollar endorsement like a Nike commecial where Walsh could've made him some side money it would've been a different story.

You reap what you sow....after Walsh leaked that story to the press making Ron Artest look bad....a couple games later became the Detroit Piston Brawl where Ron Artest showed how easy it was to beat the Championship Detroit Pistons. The Indiana Pacers was destined to be in the Finals, without Artest it still took the Pistons 7 games to beat coach Rick Carlisle Pacer to get to the Finals that season.

Donnie Walsh = :barf:

Very...very...good post.

Kiyaman, you always been consistent...mad information and insight, keep it up.

GetRealistic · May 11, 2009

It all depends on the money. If Artest garners 13-16 million like Kiya says (no chance in hell anybody gets that money in todays economy) then no. But if hes willing to take a discount to play in NY sure. If he really wants to play in NY then maybe he'd be willing to sign the mid level exception and figure he'll earn the extra money in NY endorsements. But if he feels this is his last major pay day and wants to get all hes worth i can't blame the guy for that. In reality he should sign a solid deal with Houston and stick with that team.

And Kiya... Why in the hell would Donnie Walsh or any GM let one of there best players take a few weeks off during the season to release a rap record. No GM would sign off for that, Thats what the offseason is for.

I also agree with another poster (i think DonChris) that Artest is a great player but he's more of the 3rd piece to a great team and since the Knicks don't have piece 1 or 2 it may be worthelss to invest money into the 3rd piece when you don't have the first two pieces in places.

Kiyaman · May 11, 2009

GetRealistic said:
It all depends on the money. If Artest garners 13-16 million like Kiya says (no chance in hell anybody gets that money in todays economy) then no. But if hes willing to take a discount to play in NY sure. If he really wants to play in NY then maybe he'd be willing to sign the mid level exception and figure he'll earn the extra money in NY endorsements. But if he feels this is his last major pay day and wants to get all hes worth i can't blame the guy for that. In reality he should sign a solid deal with Houston and stick with that team.

And Kiya... Why in the hell would Donnie Walsh or any GM let one of there best players take a few weeks off during the season to release a rap record. No GM would sign off for that, Thats what the offseason is for.

I also agree with another poster (i think DonChris) that Artest is a great player but he's more of the 3rd piece to a great team and since the Knicks don't have piece 1 or 2 it may be worthelss to invest money into the 3rd piece when you don't have the first two pieces in places.

The Salary inwhich we seen the next team give Q.Richardson, Larry Hughes, and Lewis, is the same type of Salary Ron Artest performance should've received years ago.

Alot of Star players took off during the regular season to promote alot of things....their team managers does not make it public....Shaq used to take off long periods of time during every season, especially when he went through that 5 year period thinking he could become a rap-star and movie-star.

I'm not sure I understand what u mean about a 3rd piece on a team....Ron Artest is a "Leader" or a "Leaders Partner" on a team inwhich his talents always help out or improve the performance of his teammate PG, SG, PF, and Center on both sides of the court....something we watched Scottie Pippin do in his 6-Championship Rings for the Bulls.

The Cleveland Cavs would be considered a 3-Championship team if they could've traded Wally & Pavolic for Ron Artest last offseason.
Remember how Yao was Bitc-complaining about the Artest trade....not knowing that was the best trade Houston made since the Drexler trade in the 90's.

clumsy · May 11, 2009

I would like to get Ron. I also have a trade proposal. It would seem that Yao Ming is outwearing his welcome in Houston due to being prone. I would trade him to NY in a sec for Eddy Curry and Jared Jeffries.

3 Broken foots in a row....has gotta reduce his trade value. I say it's not a bad risk on the knicks end if you lower his minutes.

New New York · May 11, 2009

Kiyaman said:
As much as I LUV Ron Artest and been wanting his performance in a Knick uniform since 1999.
I wish Artest the best in getting a 5 to 6 year contract at $13M to $16M per this offseason to a team that will give him a decent future after he hang up his sneakers.

The last thing I want for Ron Artest is to hook backup with a back-stabbing snake in the grass Donnie Walsh....whom started and advocated all the bad publicity on Ron Artest in the NBA (Today), just to resign him at a cheap price when it was plain to see that Ron Artest was the best overall player on the Indiana Pacers.

The first bad incident Ron Artest had in the NBA was kicking over a monitor going into the lockerroom after a sorry loss to the Knicks in MSG inwhich Artest was a one man show beating the Knicks throughout the first 3 quarters to lose the game in crunchtime with Kurt Thomas out playing J.O'Neal and Reggie Miller not playing any defense on Spree or Houston.
Ron Artest took that loss very emotionally, and his teammates Miller & J.O'Neal, coach Isiah, and Donnie Walsh said nothing good in behalf of the emotional kicking of the monitors in MSG....they let the N.Y. media and Stu Jackson hog-tie a rope around Artest and dragged him through the mud for four months as an uncontrol player in the league.
But the first week in July of FA signings Donnie Walsh resigned Artest to a 6 year contract for less than half of his worth.

Then to top that off....Ron Artest went personally to Donnie Walsh during the preseason and asked for a few weeks off during the regular season to be able to promote his production of "Hip Hop" (inwhich we all know certain people in this country Hate "Hip Hop and Rap" with the most strongest passion they have) so it could be released around the All-Star Game which Artest knew he would make again. All-Star players asking management for time off during the regular season for this or that is not something new in the NBA.
And what do Donnie Walsh go and do? Walsh goes and leak Artest request to him to the press in a way that makes Artest look bad.
Now if the request was for a multi-million dollar endorsement like a Nike commecial where Walsh could've made him some side money it would've been a different story.

You reap what you sow....after Walsh leaked that story to the press making Ron Artest look bad....a couple games later became the Detroit Piston Brawl where Ron Artest showed how easy it was to beat the Championship Detroit Pistons. The Indiana Pacers was destined to be in the Finals, without Artest it still took the Pistons 7 games to beat coach Rick Carlisle Pacer to get to the Finals that season.

Donnie Walsh = :barf:

I think all and all Donnie and Ron still have a good relationship. Remember when Houston came to town Donnie talked about he and Ron having lunch together. Where did all this info about Walsh doing all this to Ron come from? Not saying you're wrong, but I have never heard any of this before

My proposal is we do a sign and trade w/ Houston for D. Lee and Ron Ron if we can land a shot blocking Center (ie. Camby or Chandler). I think David is a perfect complilment to Yao and Ron can play PF in Dantoni's system.They should be earning about the same after David signs his extension. I would much rather give 8 or 9 million to Ron than David Lee.

Scribbles · May 11, 2009

Crazy if you think about it...

We picked up Isiah (I totally forgot about his Pacers past)

then we oust him for...the guy above him?

The fruit doesn't fall far from the tree.

Why must the Knicks constantly pick up the league's trash. No wonder Reggie Miller is laughing at us.

For what Walsh's sacrificing this year and next year (current players, possible future signees, trades, draft picks)....

If Donnie doesn't land LeBron or Dwayne Wade in 2010 ----> Goodbye.

dave2138 · May 11, 2009

Kiyaman said:
As much as I LUV Ron Artest and been wanting his performance in a Knick uniform since 1999.
I wish Artest the best in getting a 5 to 6 year contract at $13M to $16M per this offseason to a team that will give him a decent future after he hang up his sneakers.

The last thing I want for Ron Artest is to hook backup with a back-stabbing snake in the grass Donnie Walsh....whom started and advocated all the bad publicity on Ron Artest in the NBA (Today), just to resign him at a cheap price when it was plain to see that Ron Artest was the best overall player on the Indiana Pacers.

The first bad incident Ron Artest had in the NBA was kicking over a monitor going into the lockerroom after a sorry loss to the Knicks in MSG inwhich Artest was a one man show beating the Knicks throughout the first 3 quarters to lose the game in crunchtime with Kurt Thomas out playing J.O'Neal and Reggie Miller not playing any defense on Spree or Houston.
Ron Artest took that loss very emotionally, and his teammates Miller & J.O'Neal, coach Isiah, and Donnie Walsh said nothing good in behalf of the emotional kicking of the monitors in MSG....they let the N.Y. media and Stu Jackson hog-tie a rope around Artest and dragged him through the mud for four months as an uncontrol player in the league.
But the first week in July of FA signings Donnie Walsh resigned Artest to a 6 year contract for less than half of his worth.

Then to top that off....Ron Artest went personally to Donnie Walsh during the preseason and asked for a few weeks off during the regular season to be able to promote his production of "Hip Hop" (inwhich we all know certain people in this country Hate "Hip Hop and Rap" with the most strongest passion they have) so it could be released around the All-Star Game which Artest knew he would make again. All-Star players asking management for time off during the regular season for this or that is not something new in the NBA.
And what do Donnie Walsh go and do? Walsh goes and leak Artest request to him to the press in a way that makes Artest look bad.
Now if the request was for a multi-million dollar endorsement like a Nike commecial where Walsh could've made him some side money it would've been a different story.

You reap what you sow....after Walsh leaked that story to the press making Ron Artest look bad....a couple games later became the Detroit Piston Brawl where Ron Artest showed how easy it was to beat the Championship Detroit Pistons. The Indiana Pacers was destined to be in the Finals, without Artest it still took the Pistons 7 games to beat coach Rick Carlisle Pacer to get to the Finals that season.

Donnie Walsh = :barf:

I don't think you should blaming Walsh for Artest's problem with the media and public. I think you just showed in your post how easy it is for anybody to manipulate such an emotionally unstable player like Artest. Imagine how much easier it would be if he played in a city like NY. He could not survive here. Like I said before, there is as good a chance of Artest signing with Detroit than there is him signing in NY.

Scribbles · May 11, 2009

^
What are you talking about?

He's from NYC. He's ALWAYS here in the offseason.

And plus he already played here at St. Johns.

-2 with that thesis.

dave2138 · May 11, 2009

Scribbles said:
^
What are you talking about?

He's from NYC. He's ALWAYS here in the offseason.

And plus he already played here at St. Johns.

-2 with that thesis.

So what he's from NYC... if you looked over his career or read kiya's post, you can see he isn't the most popular or media friendly guy out there. Everyone is going to try and make him look bad. I don't care if he grew up here; that doesn't make him immune to the media.

There's not doubt in my mind he will get taken advantage of and manipulated here more so than if he played elsewhere.

If the knicks as a team had a better rep, I may feel differently about this. But they don't have a good rep right now. They can't afford to take a risk on a player like him. Its not a smart move.

Kiyaman · May 11, 2009

dave2138 said:
So what he's from NYC... if you looked over his career or read kiya's post, you can see he isn't the most popular or media friendly guy out there. Everyone is going to try and make him look bad. I don't care if he grew up here; that doesn't make him immune to the media.

There's not doubt in my mind he will get taken advantage of and manipulated here more so than if he played elsewhere.

If the knicks as a team had a better rep, I may feel differently about this. But they don't have a good rep right now. They can't afford to take a risk on a player like him. Its not a smart move.

Dave....slow down u going to fast and your going to catch a speeding ticket.
Those same words was said about "Sprewell" whom took us to the FINALS...

Scribbles · May 11, 2009

dave2138 said:
So what he's from NYC... if you looked over his career or read kiya's post, you can see he isn't the most popular or media friendly guy out there. Everyone is going to try and make him look bad. I don't care if he grew up here; that doesn't make him immune to the media.

There's not doubt in my mind he will get taken advantage of and manipulated here more so than if he played elsewhere.

If the knicks as a team had a better rep, I may feel differently about this. But they don't have a good rep right now. They can't afford to take a risk on a player like him. Its not a smart move.

If Ron Artest is/was doing something he isn't supposed to do - it would have been in the NY Media and Papers already.

Like I said, Ron Artest is in NY a lot, a lot. But do you know or hear about that? No! Because he doesn't do anything wrong.

You're an idiot if you think NY is trouble for him. He's already here as far as I know....you're claim is 100% invalid.

Not to mention, we also rolled the dice on our current PG right now. Chris Duhon had off the court/partying issues before he came here. Not so much this year....

There is a system in place that works. Don't let Isiah and Stephon's tomfoolery distort the image.

We actually NEED Ron Artest' image on this team. The Knicks are a soft ass squad in everyone's eyes.

RIP Charles Oakley era.

Kiyaman · May 11, 2009

New New York said:
I think all and all Donnie and Ron still have a good relationship. Remember when Houston came to town Donnie talked about he and Ron having lunch together. Where did all this info about Walsh doing all this to Ron come from? Not saying you're wrong, but I have never heard any of this before

My proposal is we do a sign and trade w/ Houston for D. Lee and Ron Ron if we can land a shot blocking Center (ie. Camby or Chandler). I think David is a perfect complilment to Yao and Ron can play PF in Dantoni's system.They should be earning about the same after David signs his extension. I would much rather give 8 or 9 million to Ron than David Lee.

Slow down on your thinking u might hurt yourself....did Ron Artest show any signs of problems at St. Johns? NO!
Did Ron show any signs of problems on the Chicago Bulls? NO!
Did Ron show any signs of problems on the Sacremento Kings? NO!
Did Ron show any signs of problems on the Houston Rockets? NO!

So where did so many Fans like u and Dave get all this bad Rep about Ron Artest whom never had any offcourt problems....but u and others are quick to exagerrate and say he is a mental case for what? kicking a monitor and running in the stands inwhich he never threw a punch or hit anyone?
or are u mad b/c he asked (not demand) to be traded when the Pacers were playing above .550 B-Ball.

Do you recall the reason why Ron Artest went to the MEDIA publically and asked to be traded out of Indiana rather than go to coach Carlisle, G.M. Bird, or President Walsh?

And u have the audacity to write $8M to $9M for Ron Artest performance....u are way off even in a recession economy.
Artest was worth more than Reggie Miller, Stephon Jackson, and Jermain O'Neal while he was on the Indiana Pacers collecting $6M per while those 3-players were receiving $10M and better.
U seen the 360 collapse on Indiana Pacers as soon as Ron Artest left.
So your trade proposal is dead....Lee is a complimentary player while Artest leadership improves his teammates performance....do the math...

dave2138 · May 11, 2009

Big difference between NY Knicks 97-99 and Knicks 2009. The knicks won so Sprewell gave us no trouble. If the Knicks lose with Artest forget it..he'll literally stab reporters when they ask questions like "do you think you're history of being a mentally unstable player is having a negative effect on the team play?"

Scribble - I only read the part where you called me an idiot. Just end this..Artest will never be a Knick. So many other choices through FA anyway next off season..I don't get the obsession with him. I'm looking forward to the 09/10 off season and the bunch of rumors we will hear on how the Knicks will build their team. The only thing I am 100% sure of is that Artest -> NY will not happen.

1 more thing - You can't compare any past player's attitude/rep/personality to Ron Artest. He is in a league of his own. There are no accurate comparisons for him, so no point in bringing up past players and their experiences in NY.

Knicker23 · May 11, 2009

there are a lot of possibilities we have this off season and next, getting Artest aint one of them.

dave2138 · May 12, 2009

What you can't see in scribble's Ron Artest pictures is that in #1 He throws the baby out the window because he tried to take his food. #2 He steals some food away from the poor African kids, hence the reasoning why they are all reaching out at him. What a hero you guys have!...haha

Crazy⑧s · May 12, 2009

Actually, Ron Artest's Chicago team mates had been quoted saying "Get him out of here, I don't even wanna practice against this guy" Apparently, he used to throw the ball above the heads of other players in the locker room as a pre-game ritual whilst they sat down.

He's a nut bar there's no doubt, but he's hard as nails and a good ball player.

If we got both him and Odom this off-season, we'd have 2 home town bad bloods that are good friends...

Bring back the Bad Boys!!!!

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