WTF is going on?? LOCKOUT BS!!!

insanity4289

Benchwarmer
45 posts huh

you do realize you are saying the same exact thing as me and I am the illogical one ?

who are you any way ?

keep your contracts but they are not guaranteed

didnt I specifically detail the exact same statement you moronic fool

dont ever jump on here with out even a rep point and state my post is illogical, and then complete your response with a consolidated version of my whole post; it makes you look assinine.



Congratulations you have over 1,000 posts on a forum that has less than 300 active members.
What was I thinking questioning you?

I guess someone's intelligence is directly correlated to how many posts they have on a knicks forum that gets a grand total of 2.2 unique views a day.

Hey Guess what?

NO ONE GIVES A SHIT You pretentious forum dwelling F***

You said
There needs to be a level of play, as well as a level of production with regards to minutes and games based on injuries and surgeries etc; that relates to the amount that each player makes

I.E
joe johnsons contract by 2016 if he is producing half of what he is now, and only plays 55 games, there should be a clause that his contract will be reduced.
So if a player gets injured he doesn't get paid?
If a player has to have surgery, their salary gets cut?

I'm talking about player bonuses granted for playing up to a certain caliber performance or making the playoffs.

You're talking about not even guaranteeing a players contract for a season.

We aren't talking about the same thing.

And just so you know asinine is spelled with 1 s.
 
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http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2011/10...t-2011-power-rankings-dwyane-wade-david-stern

nice to hear they're actually talking and negotiating, finger pointing and apologizing, and wearing flannel!
A source told NBA.com's David Aldridge that at one point, NBA commissioner David Stern was emphatically directing a comment -- and pointing his finger -- at Wade, the Miami Heat's All-Star guard. Wade objected and interrupted Stern, reportedly saying: "Don't point your finger at me. I'm a grown man. I have children."
Lmao Stern got owned. :lol: :whack:
 

insanity4289

Benchwarmer
Lmao Stern got owned. :lol: :whack:


I know Stern sucks but **** Lebron, Wade, and Chris Paul.

Dwyane Wade, LeBron James and Chris Paul reportedly said before Friday's negotiations that they?re willing to lose the season rather than make further concessions to the owners.

They are greedy assholes.

Everyone else is talking about how they are willing to come down in their revenue percentage.
 

CoolClyde

Moderator
I know Stern sucks but **** Lebron, Wade, and Chris Paul.

Quote:
Dwyane Wade, LeBron James and Chris Paul reportedly said before Friday's negotiations that they?re willing to lose the season rather than make further concessions to the owners.

They are greedy assholes.

Everyone else is talking about how they are willing to come down in their revenue percentage.
:agreed: that's f*cking insanity! nothing personal, insanity4289...
 
Please tell me how this is remotely logical.
Why would a player ever agree to this?



Insanity, come on man

when you call a suggestion illogical, with out reading exactly what i meant, I am going to call you out on that; I stated that when a player becomes dead meat at the end of a bench, there should be a clause in every player's contract (amnesty) which they are proposing that allows the team to rid themselves of the burden of the contract.

so how is it illogical that the same amnesty clause I suggested a week ago, is illogical when it is the same CBA proposal they are discussing now ?


this is why I called you a fool.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
This is it.....

This is the week Oct 3rd to Oct 7th, we fans will find out if more forest wood
is thrown into the fire, or NBA Stern were prepared and equipped with extra
fire extinquisher on July 1st to put out any out of control heated fire to save
the 2011-12 season.
That's the job of a neutral commissioner (refferee) the onwners vs players
meeting.

While some argue Kobe would better serve the union by joining his rivals in New York, I think that he's right where he needs to be. Trust me, LeBron and Wade and the guys are doing their job. Kobe's angle is a little different. He's showing the owners -- specifically his team's owner, Jerry Buss -- that if the league doesn't want to profit off of his name and his game, he'll help someone else do it. Kobe has always had the image of a guy always playing, always in a gym. (It's an image he's helped manufacture, though there's obvious truth in it.) What better way to flex his power than to threaten to play during the lockout by being in negotiations to play during the lockout as the stoppage reaches a critical moment? I don't think Kobe could be as threatening in New York as he is in Bologna.

You call it???
 

Kiyaman

Legend
NEW YORK – Within the past year, an NBA owner was marveling over the staying power of David Stern. Stern’s support had narrowed, his bully act worn thin, and the owner insisted how his peers would talk so tough about the commissioner when he walked out of the room. And then Stern would come through the door, and it almost always faded away.
“All of a sudden, all these rich, powerful guys are just staring at their shoes,” the owner said.
After all the suggestions – here and elsewhere – that Stern had lost clout with a brash new generation of owners, several management sources still insist: He’s ruled the owners’ day in these labor talks, and he’s still positioning all the pawns in this lockout. The NBA has moved to the cusp of canceling regular-season games, to a nuclear basketball winter, and has still refused to seriously engage the players in talks on a new collective bargaining agreement.

This is why some player agents are threatening to decertify the union as soon as this week, throw out executive director Billy Hunter and his lawyers, and file an anti-trust lawsuit in federal court. They’ve wanted to take on Stern forever, and they’re determined to replace Hunter and his lawyers with hard-core labor lawyers and throw some uncertainty into the owners’ fight. This could be a wild scene in Manhattan, where defiance out of Stern, out of his owners, promises to inspire all hell to break loose.
Once again, does Stern want to be the commissioner for everyone on Tuesday, and ultimately spare his sport a bloodbath of courtrooms, lawsuits and maybe a lost 2011-12 season? He needs to gather his owners, propose a deal the players can accept, and understand that this is no time to run up the score on the union. The owners have already won big. Stern’s spent most of his professional life as an unapologetic bully, but this time, enough’s enough.
Stern is chasing his own big salary, his own big bonuses, and he knows there’s a deal the players will take that will give his owners a fair chance for profits and competitive balance. He invited this insurrection out of the agents, and now it’s coming. He needs to end it, and spare the NBA a needless bloodbath.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
?We?re not just walking off the cliff with [Hunter],? one prominent agent told Yahoo! Sports on Monday. ?We?re ready to take the next step and decertify. We?re not going to let the league set up (Tuesday?s) meeting as a way to trap us into a bad deal.?
Said another powerful agent: ?Stern doesn?t want to deal with us; he wants Billy and his lawyers in there. Maybe if Stern?s faced with revealing financial records, legal costs and paying possibly billions in damages, maybe he?ll have more incentive to make a deal than sitting across the room from Hunter, eat turkey sandwiches and taking a percentage point at a time away from the players.?
Stern doesn?t want the nuclear option of decertification, but he?s forced the players to pursue it. This has been a rigged process for years, and most agents regret only that they didn?t oust Hunter on July 1, when the owners locked them out. Back then, Hunter could?ve stayed as the front man in talks the way the NFLPA?s DeMaurice Smith did in the NFL?s decertification, but not now. Hunter?s done, and the agents can?t wait to unload him. For those who say that this isn?t personal, well, they?re kidding themselves.
The fans don?t care about those politics, nor should they. Without the framework of a deal, these next 24 hours could bring an Armageddon that will set back years of NBA momentum. The players have offered givebacks, and Stern and his owners sneered at them. The agents have wanted Stern on a level playing field for years, and they?re determined to sue that smirk off his face. They don?t care about the PR war, they care about winning. Billions of dollars are a stake, and, truth be told, the agents can spare the players the inevitable bad-guy role that the public invariably thrusts upon them in these labor disputes.
The agents are willing to become the targets, and they?re used to it. Miami?s Dwyane Wade(notes) never deserved the public scorn for his honesty with Yahoo! Sports when he simply stated the obvious: In an uncapped system, there would be owners justifiably willing to pay upwards of $50 million a season for the NBA?s transformational stars. This was no demand, but an honest assessment of the value the elite stars bring to basketball.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
As the labor fight plays out, Stern is slowly seeing the onus leave him, and transfer to his players. This makes his life easier now, but so much harder later when his league?s most important commodity ? his star players ? take a public-perception beating. The players? job is to fight for themselves and for the little guys in the union, and when they do, they get torched.
After the Wade story was posted, a GM reached out to tell me: ?There?s absolutely no doubt that the top NBA stars are the most underpaid in sports. The max salaries created the Heat. The owners have only themselves to blame if they don?t like what happened with the Heat. There?s no way [Heat owner] Micky Arison could afford the $140 million to pay those three in a free market situation ? and that?s $140 million annually.?


The Los Angeles Lakers? Kobe Bryant(notes) will be in New York for the meeting Tuesday, a source said.
Boston?s Paul Pierce(notes) will return, too. They?re the thirtysomething stars who?ve made their money and reached the point where they don?t much care if they take care a public-relations beating for fighting the owners. They have the right to resent owners such as Phoenix?s Robert Sarver, who?ve brought no value to the league, who?ve done nothing to make franchises better.
Sarver has received a lot of blame for his hard-line leanings in these talks, but one ownership voice dismisses his gravity. ?I don?t think he has any importance in the room, because he?s always shooting his mouth off,? one high-ranking NBA official with access to the talks said. ?I?m not sure anyone?s paying attention to him. Stern is still running things there.?
 

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
This whole farce is getting more and more insane.

Pre-season completely cancelled.

First 2 weeks of the season jeopardised already.
 

finestrg

Rotation player
This whole thing sucks so friggin' bad man...Silver lining though, if you listen to the entire David Stern press conference after today's meeting -- whether you wanna believe Stern and Silver, it sounded like there actually was a modicum of progress made today. Maybe even more than a modicum.

If I have this correct:

(1) Originally, the owners were first offering something like 53/47 or 54/46% on the BRI sharing (in favor of the owners) WITH additional givebacks (see below). Players walked away, as they should've. After all, they were getting 56 or 57% of the BRI under the prior agreement, no? Did these owners and Stern really expect them to take a 10 or 11% hit on the BRI as well as cave in to givebacks - hard cap, no guaranteed contracts, etc.?? Come on..That rediculous pie-in-the-sky stance did nothing but waste time by the owners imo. It showed they weren't serious about coming to a quick resolution.

(2) Then today, a 50/50 split was discussed but again, with those additional givebacks. Players rejected that one too but at the end, as per Stern, a 50/50 split with no givebacks was informally discussed last minute, where Hunter/Fisher supposedly took it back to the players -- unfortunately that was said to be rejected as well. Stern kinda stressed that it was not a formal offer and also indicated to the press that he has no idea if it will still be on the table in the future...

2 things here for me -- (1) The fact that Stern/Silver mentioned it took place and that (2) Fisher & Hunter thought enough of it to take it back to the players is what I found encouraging.

Also of note, Stern indicated early on that the owners have come down off several of their earlier demands as well (I presume these are some of the "givebacks" being discussed in addition to the BRI ----> (1) a move off the hard cap by the owners; (2) guaranteed contracts would be authorized (something the owners were looking to take away); (3) no roll-backs of existing salaries (I believe the owners wanted big salary players to make concessions on contracts that were already signed under the old agreement--to me that would've been rediculous--the players union can't possibly agree to that); and (4) an opt-out would exist for the players after 7 years of a proposed 10-yr deal.

I mean, I dunno man.. I'm no fan of Stern or the owners and at first it sounded real bleak today but if you really listen to what Stern was saying, it sounds like there's definite progress being made here. As we're approaching crunch time, the pendulum clearly looks to be swinging toward the players if you ask me...As of now, no plans are in place for future meetings but you gotta figure that'll change in the next 24 hrs..Call me an optimist but despite no agreement thusfar, it sounds like the owners are seriously coming back down to Earth on many of the key issues. Hopefully that bodes well.. I mean considering where this whole thing was, a 50/50 BRI split with little or no givebacks isn't terrible...Still, I bet the players are holding out for a little more. Something tells me that if the players can get this to 51-52% BRI with little or no givebacks, we'll finally have basketball (I believe Fisher is saying the players are standing firm at 53%). Both sides might consider that a victory...Both sides may not be that far apart anymore..Decide for yourselves -- here's the Stern/Silver press conference:

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/cba_news/2011/10/04/stern_silver_presser.nba/
 
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insanity4289

Benchwarmer
Please tell me how this is remotely logical.
Why would a player ever agree to this?



Insanity, come on man

when you call a suggestion illogical, with out reading exactly what i meant, I am going to call you out on that; I stated that when a player becomes dead meat at the end of a bench, there should be a clause in every player's contract (amnesty) which they are proposing that allows the team to rid themselves of the burden of the contract.

so how is it illogical that the same amnesty clause I suggested a week ago, is illogical when it is the same CBA proposal they are discussing now ?


this is why I called you a fool.


C'mon man reread what you wrote and tell me your two posts are the same.

You know there are some people who post on this forum that are... well... lets just say not the brightest.

And just for the record I know I don't post much but look at my join date.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
This whole thing sucks so friggin' bad man...Silver lining though, if you listen to the entire David Stern press conference after today's meeting -- whether you wanna believe Stern and Silver, it sounded like there actually was a modicum of progress made today. Maybe even more than a modicum.

If I have this correct:

(1) Originally, the owners were first offering something like 53/47 or 54/46% on the BRI sharing (in favor of the owners) WITH additional givebacks (see below). Players walked away, as they should've. After all, they were getting 56 or 57% of the BRI under the prior agreement, no? Did these owners and Stern really expect them to take a 10 or 11% hit on the BRI as well as cave in to givebacks - hard cap, no guaranteed contracts, etc.?? Come on..That rediculous pie-in-the-sky stance did nothing but waste time by the owners imo. It showed they weren't serious about coming to a quick resolution.

(2) Then today, a 50/50 split was discussed but again, with those additional givebacks. Players rejected that one too but at the end, as per Stern, a 50/50 split with no givebacks was informally discussed last minute, where Hunter/Fisher supposedly took it back to the players -- unfortunately that was said to be rejected as well. Stern kinda stressed that it was not a formal offer and also indicated to the press that he has no idea if it will still be on the table in the future...

2 things here for me -- (1) The fact that Stern/Silver mentioned it took place and that (2) Fisher & Hunter thought enough of it to take it back to the players is what I found encouraging.

Also of note, Stern indicated early on that the owners have come down off several of their earlier demands as well (I presume these are some of the "givebacks" being discussed in addition to the BRI ----> (1) a move off the hard cap by the owners; (2) guaranteed contracts would be authorized (something the owners were looking to take away); (3) no roll-backs of existing salaries (I believe the owners wanted big salary players to make concessions on contracts that were already signed under the old agreement--to me that would've been rediculous--the players union can't possibly agree to that); and (4) an opt-out would exist for the players after 7 years of a proposed 10-yr deal.

I mean, I dunno man.. I'm no fan of Stern or the owners and at first it sounded real bleak today but if you really listen to what Stern was saying, it sounds like there's definite progress being made here. As we're approaching crunch time, the pendulum clearly looks to be swinging toward the players if you ask me...As of now, no plans are in place for future meetings but you gotta figure that'll change in the next 24 hrs..Call me an optimist but despite no agreement thusfar, it sounds like the owners are seriously coming back down to Earth on many of the key issues. Hopefully that bodes well.. I mean considering where this whole thing was, a 50/50 BRI split with little or no givebacks isn't terrible...Still, I bet the players are holding out for a little more. Something tells me that if the players can get this to 51-52% BRI with little or no givebacks, we'll finally have basketball (I believe Fisher is saying the players are standing firm at 53%). Both sides might consider that a victory...Both sides may not be that far apart anymore..Decide for yourselves -- here's the Stern/Silver press conference:

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/cba_news/2011/10/04/stern_silver_presser.nba/

Great Post......
But we must remember things happen for a reason.

David Stern knew from the previous long lockout (1998-99) that the
"players & their agents" were not going to "accept" a hard-cap of
non-gauranteed contracts along with a huge decrease in players
percentage of the revenue. Especially after the huge increase in rating
in last season regular and postseason games. The top-5 NBA "Agents"
would be condeming their future prospects in college now to such a CBA
agreement. Stern knew the players union would not accept this unless
forced into a half or full season lockout.

Stern would rather have this 2011-12 season lockedout with all kinds of
chaos of negative rumors spreading in November, rather than compromise
the previous "soft-cap" with the players taking a 4% decrease in the
revenue the next 6 to 7 seasons to get the 2011-12 season started on time.

There have to be a reason for "David Stern" madness.....
there is not 22 small-market teams in the NBA, the Seattle Super Sonics
turned into the packed-house full arena OKC Thunders, the N.J. Nets has
turned into the Brooklyn Nets where the previous owner (real estate Ratner)
whom Stern is always mentioning loss money in the Nets throughout these
CBA meetings, when in "real-talk" owner Ratner profit 3 times the amount of
money he spent on the Nets and the Brooklyn real estate property he sold
as a package deal to the Nets new (Russian) owner.
What do Stern have to say about Billionair real estate broker Ratner
buying a NBA team (that went to the Finals twice) to turn it into a
big profitable real estate deal......"the Nets organization lost money"...
 

Kiyaman

Legend
never thought I'd post a Fox News Opinion, but this guy makes sense:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/10/16/hey-nba-players-get-back-to-work-and-play/


This article is the reason why I can never post a Fox Opinion.....it was written with a capitalistic charisma to focus only on the players while making the "wealthy-billionairs" and Stern look like hostages.
This article forgot to put in the "demands" for a hardcap and 7% raise for the owners in this NBA hostage negotiation.

Its like I wrote in several threads during this offseason-lockout.....Amare being the first 2010 star FA signed to a $100M max contract should have followed through with his (PR) promotion of a team-workout in July/August for reason of the "cancel Summer League Games" to prepare the Knicks rookies, 2nd season, and 3rd season players for the opening of training-camp through the close-door long lock-out.
This was Amare first priority as the star-leader for the Knicks organization, plus for puplic-relation for the player union Rep. to prove star-players ability to prepare a team for the preseason games without the organization help.
Once Amare's team-workout got into session it wouldve drawed "media" attention (Big Apple Media) to start a chain reaction from other teams star-players.....with top agents behind the scene ready to organize charity games in different cities vs Amare's Knicks team....."if" the lock-out was not ended by Training-Camp.
This way the above silly "ARTICLE" could never be written to spread negativities on "one" of the two parties in a negotiation for an agreement to end the lockout.

Am I aiming a lot of blame towards Amare? HELL YEAH!
1) Amare was the top super-star PF in the 2010 FA market who was the
first FA to commit to signing with another team ($100M contract).
2) Amare committed himself publically in early July to financing a team-
workout on account of the cancelation of the summer league tournament
that has improve the performance of NBA rookies and 2nd season players
tremendously since being added in the NBA program.
3) Amare being persistent at making new dates for the "team-workout" is
a committment of a "Man's Word" that includes others in depending on his
word. It's a man thing...
:smokin: :gony: :smokin:
Oh Yeah....the team-workout was not a training-camp in July
 
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