My Observations of Game 2

blahwoop

Benchwarmer
I have 3 things I'd like to point out about last night's game.

Woodson vs. D'antoni - Where was the perimeter defense (yea shump is gone) that was supposed to be instilled by Woodson as the new coach? They played the same way they used to play when D'antoni was coach. It makes me question if D'antoni was the problem or not.

Amare - I thought it was ridiculous that they did not try to go to Amare more offensively. Clearly the ISO the Knicks were playing wasn't working at all. The Heat didn't even need to double team. They dared Carmelo to shoot and he did it well but Melo himself can't win the game. They should've changed the game plan up. We all know that the Heat's weakness is their 4-5 position. Why didn't they dump the ball into amare, let him work there. once he get's going and dominate the inside. they will have to start double teaming him, which will open things up for the rest of his teammates including Melo. Amare's defense stats was never there so that's a given but he's offensive skills is there and they need to take advantage of that. Why must Melo be the focal point? Why not switch things up like Miami did? Lebron did his thing in Game 1 and in Game 2 you could tell he was deferring to his teammates more a.k.a Wade. That helped keep them unpredictable.

Is Melo built for the playoffs? It looks like he needs to dominate the ball to get going. It's probably ok for the regular season but I don't think it works in the playoffs. He's a great scorer and finisher but in the playoffs you have to play the same team multiple times and teams can shut him down. Great one on one player but his team game is suspect.

Let's be honest here. Game two was a terrible game too. No penetration. Just hold the ball until the shot clock is about to expire either find carmelo or shoot it yourself.

I don't think the Heat are playing that great, I think that the Knicks are just playing bad basketball.
 

CA7

Scoring Champ
The Heat are a great team period but we allow them to be even better

2 things we're missing

Off the ball movement- Landry Fields is the only who moves without the ball, Melo doesn't unless there's a lane, Novak doesn't, STAT doesn't, Chandler doesn't, JR doesn't. We allow to play that great help D when we stand and watch, if you notice the Heat you see they spread out and move around opening up lanes everything we do is close and tight so there's no room for guys to operate

Help Defense- We dont play any help D except Chandler, we defend our man half ass only, then we help late which helps them get open shots, we never see the ball and our man, its on or the other, we dont keep the Heat in front of us which is why they get back door plays, we dont understand their personnel like they know ours, we defend everyone the same
 

blahwoop

Benchwarmer
The Heat are a great team period but we allow them to be even better

2 things we're missing

Off the ball movement- Landry Fields is the only who moves without the ball, Melo doesn't unless there's a lane, Novak doesn't, STAT doesn't, Chandler doesn't, JR doesn't. We allow to play that great help D when we stand and watch, if you notice the Heat you see they spread out and move around opening up lanes everything we do is close and tight so there's no room for guys to operate

Help Defense- We dont play any help D except Chandler, we defend our man half ass only, then we help late which helps them get open shots, we never see the ball and our man, its on or the other, we dont keep the Heat in front of us which is why they get back door plays, we dont understand their personnel like they know ours, we defend everyone the same

there is more thing that we HAVE to do. HARD FOULS. I HATE THESE HALF ASS FOULS THE KNICKS GIVE AND LET THESE FOOLS GET A SHIT LOAD OF AND 1's. IF YOU FOUL ****ING FOUL HIM HARD. IF YOU ARE LETTING THEM HIT AND 1's YOU ARE NOT FOULING HARD ENOUGH.
 

blahwoop

Benchwarmer
The Heat are a great team period but we allow them to be even better

2 things we're missing

Off the ball movement- Landry Fields is the only who moves without the ball, Melo doesn't unless there's a lane, Novak doesn't, STAT doesn't, Chandler doesn't, JR doesn't. We allow to play that great help D when we stand and watch, if you notice the Heat you see they spread out and move around opening up lanes everything we do is close and tight so there's no room for guys to operate

Help Defense- We dont play any help D except Chandler, we defend our man half ass only, then we help late which helps them get open shots, we never see the ball and our man, its on or the other, we dont keep the Heat in front of us which is why they get back door plays, we dont understand their personnel like they know ours, we defend everyone the same


That is exactly why I think Melo's game has a part in this. Off ball movement. Do the other players expect to get the ball if they run around? or are all the plays designed to get Melo the ball and let him do his magic? Not saying if there is a right or wrong here.

I play a little bit of ball sometimes. Always in the beginning of the game I will run around to try to get open. one of two things happen, either my teammates pass me the ball when I try to get open and I'll keep on running or when a ball hogger don't pass me the ball when I'm running around. I stop. I'll stand around and just watch them do their thing, get rebounds, if i get lucky the guy is forced to pass the ball and i'm the closest guy they can pass the ball to then I get the ball.
 

CA7

Scoring Champ
there is more thing that we HAVE to do. HARD FOULS. I HATE THESE HALF ASS FOULS THE KNICKS GIVE AND LET THESE FOOLS GET A SHIT LOAD OF AND 1's. IF YOU FOUL ****ING FOUL HIM HARD. IF YOU ARE LETTING THEM HIT AND 1's YOU ARE NOT FOULING HARD ENOUGH.

I'm talking about basketball type adjustments as far as hard fouls we cant really just do that, we dont have the depth to just foul them when they go up, everyone will be in foul trouble

If we play better D, they wont get easy lay ups, if we get better shots on offense they wont get fast breaks to get easy buckets

its simple
 

CA7

Scoring Champ
That is exactly why I think Melo's game has a part in this. Off ball movement. Do the other players expect to get the ball if they run around? or are all the plays designed to get Melo the ball and let him do his magic? Not saying if there is a right or wrong here.

I play a little bit of ball sometimes. Always in the beginning of the game I will run around to try to get open. one of two things happen, either my teammates pass me the ball when I try to get open and I'll keep on running or when a ball hogger don't pass me the ball when I'm running around. I stop. I'll stand around and just watch them do their thing, get rebounds, if i get lucky the guy is forced to pass the ball and i'm the closest guy they can pass the ball to then I get the ball.

yes they do, when Melo faces up if you cut, flash or fade he'll pass it, thats why he waits, he examines the floor but every stands still so he goes usually into 4 people because they know their man is watching

Fields does it all the time, he'll cut behind the D and get a dunk, if STAT ever flashed to the high post he'd get the ball and be able to attack and off balance D, if JR or Novak faded behind their man Melo would hit them for a 3 pointer but we dont operate like that

Its not Melo's fault, its Woodson not noticing where things are going wrong and making the proper adjustments
 

zshopa

Benchwarmer
yes they do, when Melo faces up if you cut, flash or fade he'll pass it, thats why he waits, he examines the floor but every stands still so he goes usually into 4 people because they know their man is watching

Fields does it all the time, he'll cut behind the D and get a dunk, if STAT ever flashed to the high post he'd get the ball and be able to attack and off balance D, if JR or Novak faded behind their man Melo would hit them for a 3 pointer but we dont operate like that

Its not Melo's fault, its Woodson not noticing where things are going wrong and making the proper adjustments

You are absolutely right, but aside from off ball movement we have poor spacing. When your point guard is running the show you are obviously able to spread the floor on offense a lot better. For the Knicks, Melo runs most of the show from a mid post or face up position within the heart of the defense. It's much harder to get open shots without any off ball screens and off ball movement and penetration which forces melo to go up against 3 defenders. you really cant point fingers at Melo. We need an orchestrator to help Melo spread the floor. Woodson cant really run Melo out on the perimeter because that's not Melo's Game, and Baron Davis was never a Pass first point guard, but more of a scorer.
 

CA7

Scoring Champ
You are absolutely right, but aside from off ball movement we have poor spacing. When your point guard is running the show you are obviously able to spread the floor on offense a lot better. For the Knicks, Melo runs most of the show from a mid post or face up position within the heart of the defense. It's much harder to get open shots without any off ball screens and off ball movement and penetration which forces melo to go up against 3 defenders. you really cant point fingers at Melo. We need an orchestrator to help Melo spread the floor. Woodson cant really run Melo out on the perimeter because that's not Melo's Game, and Baron Davis was never a Pass first point guard, but more of a scorer.

we need a Chauncey Billups type, one who can set up the O but operate off of Melo effectively
 

KnickolasMGL

Benchwarmer
Melo needs to operate more like a point forward when Amar'e is in the game,
otherwise you can't challenge the Heat's perimeter defense
 

blahwoop

Benchwarmer
Melo needs to operate more like a point forward when Amar'e is in the game,
otherwise you can't challenge the Heat's perimeter defense


woodson should've utilized amare better, offensively, in game 2. that's probably why he was raging after the game. i agree with him. Heat are "weak" in the inside. should've fed him the ball and see if he can dominate. probably would've opened up things for melo and others. we have no penetrating guards either except for that 1 or 2 times that baron went in and scored. he should've kept at it. i blame woodson for this shit.
 

VeryGundy

Benchwarmer
There is no simple explanation for the loss last night. Our offense just never clicked. Lots of iso's and very little player movement on offense. On defense, we got killed inside. There was no interior defense. Come to think of it, our perimeter defense was bad as well.

I don't know if you can put the blame on any one player. While Miami was the better team, Knicks put up very little resistance.
 

Den318

Benchwarmer
There is no simple explanation for the loss last night. Our offense just never clicked. Lots of iso's and very little player movement on offense. On defense, we got killed inside. There was no interior defense. Come to think of it, our perimeter defense was bad as well.

I don't know if you can put the blame on any one player. While Miami was the better team, Knicks put up very little resistance.


I held Woodson accountable for the lost. His game plan sucks. Iso Melo is not going to do it. We need changes!!!!!! Play Jr and Novak more mins and earlier.
 

VeryGundy

Benchwarmer
I held Woodson accountable for the lost. His game plan sucks. Iso Melo is not going to do it. We need changes!!!!!! Play Jr and Novak more mins and earlier.

I don't expect Woodson back next season. He is just filling in for MDA. I really have no idea who should be coaching this mess of a team next year. JVG? Phil Jackson?

Clearly great coaches like Popovich don't grow on trees. It's amazing how San Antonio stays competitive year in and year out while New York continues to search for the right chemistry. We need a Popovich for this dysfunctional team.
 

blahwoop

Benchwarmer
I don't expect Woodson back next season. He is just filling in for MDA. I really have no idea who should be coaching this mess of a team next year. JVG? Phil Jackson?

Clearly great coaches like Popovich don't grow on trees. It's amazing how San Antonio stays competitive year in and year out while New York continues to search for the right chemistry. We need a Popovich for this dysfunctional team.

we need a new team owner.
 

tkrieger

Benchwarmer
I have 3 things I'd like to point out about last night's game.

Woodson vs. D'antoni - Where was the perimeter defense (yea shump is gone) that was supposed to be instilled by Woodson as the new coach? They played the same way they used to play when D'antoni was coach. It makes me question if D'antoni was the problem or not.
The perimeter defense was good when Lin was on the floor as well..... Had both been healthy, during the 48 minutes, I think at least one of the players should have been on the floor.

Amare - I thought it was ridiculous that they did not try to go to Amare more offensively. Clearly the ISO the Knicks were playing wasn't working at all.
The Heat defend it too well, and Melo is too much of a one-trick pony in that regard. If the opposing "D" isn't so great, he's fine. But the Heat, he must move away from the ball.

Amare looked like his back problems came back....... The only time Amare looked like Amare of old was the first game back from the bulging disc injury.

The problem with the two on the floor together is they're both fours........ (Two fours on the floor only work if they're both good rebounders.) Melo doesn't dish off enough to be a three (he passes well, but he doesn't pass often enough). Amare has his zone for the 12 foot jumper...... And good at finishing the pick-and-roll....... Amare's problem is he needs a good PG to be effective. That only happened when Lin was out there. Unlike Melo, Amare is more of a finisher than a playmaker, but nobody on the Knicks (aside from Lin) can set the table for him.

The Heat didn't even need to double team. They dared Carmelo to shoot and he did it well but Melo himself can't win the game.
The other four players on the floor were spectators. In Melo's defense, the other players were HORRIBLE moving away from the ball. That takes the option away in passing from the post. No back screens, no screens for Melo, no players cutting to the rim. In the NBA, it's a recipe for stagnation.

The Heat, on the other side, the players away from the ball move very well, and off of back screens. This is how players get open looks and open lanes.

They should've changed the game plan up. We all know that the Heat's weakness is their 4-5 position. Why didn't they dump the ball into amare, let him work there.
Due to Amare's lack of quickness (because he's not 100 percent), LeBron would freelance and swat everything Amare would try. LeBron may be the best "off-the-ball" defender in the game right now.

once he get's going and dominate the inside. they will have to start double teaming him, which will open things up for the rest of his teammates including Melo. Amare's defense stats was never there so that's a given but he's offensive skills is there and they need to take advantage of that.
Amare is too passive away from the ball...... He's not really a post-up player. He needs to receive the ball in space, but his lack of movement away from the ball stifles this option.

Why must Melo be the focal point? Why not switch things up like Miami did? Lebron did his thing in Game 1 and in Game 2 you could tell he was deferring to his teammates more a.k.a Wade. That helped keep them unpredictable.
JR Smith had his share of shots...... But not reliable enough.........

With the injuries, Melo has seemingly become the only option.........:boohoo:

Is Melo built for the playoffs? It looks like he needs to dominate the ball to get going. It's probably ok for the regular season but I don't think it works in the playoffs.
You are correct that the variety of play would make Melo's ISO more effective....... The role players need to move better away from the ball, and set more screens for them to get open...... Melo is capable of passing to the open man, if they were to get open.

He's a great scorer and finisher but in the playoffs you have to play the same team multiple times and teams can shut him down. Great one on one player but his team game is suspect.
Mainly because the other players don't move away from the ball........ As if they *expect* Melo to be the individual star.

Let's be honest here. Game two was a terrible game too. No penetration.
Jeremy Lin........ Nobody else on the Knicks is capable................

Just hold the ball until the shot clock is about to expire either find carmelo or shoot it yourself.
That's what happens when players don't move away from the ball, no screens are set, and everybody seems to be well-covered by a defender.

I don't think the Heat are playing that great, I think that the Knicks are just playing bad basketball.
The Knicks played bad basketball in Cleveland....... And now they're paying for it. Had they played good basketball in Cleveland, their first round opponent would have been Indy instead of Miami.

After the season's over, what did the Knicks in was not the Heat, but sleepwalking in Cleveland which resulted in them playing the Heat.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
I have 3 things I'd like to point out about last night's game.

Woodson vs. D'antoni - Where was the perimeter defense (yea shump is gone) that was supposed to be instilled by Woodson as the new coach? They played the same way they used to play when D'antoni was coach. It makes me question if D'antoni was the problem or not.

Amare - I thought it was ridiculous that they did not try to go to Amare more offensively. Clearly the ISO the Knicks were playing wasn't working at all. The Heat didn't even need to double team. They dared Carmelo to shoot and he did it well but Melo himself can't win the game. They should've changed the game plan up. We all know that the Heat's weakness is their 4-5 position. Why didn't they dump the ball into amare, let him work there. once he get's going and dominate the inside. they will have to start double teaming him, which will open things up for the rest of his teammates including Melo. Amare's defense stats was never there so that's a given but he's offensive skills is there and they need to take advantage of that. Why must Melo be the focal point? Why not switch things up like Miami did? Lebron did his thing in Game 1 and in Game 2 you could tell he was deferring to his teammates more a.k.a Wade. That helped keep them unpredictable.

Is Melo built for the playoffs? It looks like he needs to dominate the ball to get going. It's probably ok for the regular season but I don't think it works in the playoffs. He's a great scorer and finisher but in the playoffs you have to play the same team multiple times and teams can shut him down. Great one on one player but his team game is suspect.

Let's be honest here. Game two was a terrible game too. No penetration. Just hold the ball until the shot clock is about to expire either find carmelo or shoot it yourself.

I don't think the Heat are playing that great, I think that the Knicks are just playing bad basketball.

Last nite game reminded me of Melo's career playoff game as a Denver Nuggets
being in lineups with....Camby, Nene, and Miller, then Camby, K.Mart, JR, and AI....
players Camby, K-Mart, and AI been to the FINALS before playing with Melo.
 

MeloforMayor

BALL DON'T LIE
Part of the problem is that Woodson has not had the chance to come up with any type of competent two-man play between STAT & Melo. STAT & Lin got injured when Woodson took over.
 

orangeblobman

Rotation player
Part of the problem is that Woodson has not had the chance to come up with any type of competent two-man play between STAT & Melo. STAT & Lin got injured when Woodson took over.

I think any two-man play between Melo and Amar'e is impossible because Melo just isn't a team guy.

Melo wants his and that's all that matters. If team wins and he gets his, cool; if team loses and he gets his, that's cool too.

Melo isn't about sacrificing himself for the good of the team. That's the problem.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
The Heat are a great team period but we allow them to be even better

2 things we're missing

Off the ball movement- Landry Fields is the only who moves without the ball, Melo doesn't unless there's a lane, Novak doesn't, STAT doesn't, Chandler doesn't, JR doesn't. We allow to play that great help D when we stand and watch, if you notice the Heat you see they spread out and move around opening up lanes everything we do is close and tight so there's no room for guys to operate

Help Defense- We dont play any help D except Chandler, we defend our man half ass only, then we help late which helps them get open shots, we never see the ball and our man, its on or the other, we dont keep the Heat in front of us which is why they get back door plays, we dont understand their personnel like they know ours, we defend everyone the same


The Miami Heat are the 1st top contender for the FINALS with 3 star leadership players guiding their path.

Headcoach Mike Woodson playoff coaching has been humiliated by the 2 games vs the Miami Heat. Woodson playoff coaching strategy stands at a "F" average....33 point loss, 10 point loss.
All of Woodson's lineups have no scheme or set plan to out wit the Heat on offense or defense, inside or outside.
Woodson is trying to beat the Miami Heat with 3 & 4 scorers in all his lineups and has FAILED....its time for Woodson to use 3-defensive players in all his lineups, starting with a defensive lineup of Tyson/Jefferies/Fields, using Jorts & TD as their defensive backups. We have to force Bron/Wade/Miller to do all the scoring while shutting-down all the other Heat players.

Our peremeter-defense annnd our inside-defense stink without having any leadership.
Our offense stinks worst than our defense, we have let the Miami Heat outscore us in all 8 quarters of the series....we lack team leadership from all our high scoring players on the offensive end of the court....there's no plan, play, or creativity on a broken play, only ISO.
 
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