Artest to NY?

ShairanXIII

Rotation player
It depends on which Artest we get. Do we get the guy that wants to win, or the guy in Sacremento who's shot selection was equal to that of Crawford. Trying to force things. I love Artest. Right now however, I feel he has more on his mind than basketball. If he could come to New York without all the drama, I'd say fine. However, I don't think that will be possible. Consider this, we'd be his 4th team in 8 yrs. Where does that leave Balkman and his development? Artest avg. 37 MPG. For all the Anti-Crawford sentiment, Crawford is a higher clutch performer according to 82games.com. He thrives in situations when the game is on the line. He's over 51% in those situations.

artest was unhappy because the situation in Sacto changed... he BEGGED for adleman and bonzi wells to come back... it didn't happen... he tried to make it work early... but the early losses made him crack... if everything stays cool in ny... i'd bring him in... but i'd be leery taking the risk of something setting him off...

Agreed, this where Isiah can make a huge mistake. We should try to obtain Artest or KG before anyone, if that fails, then pull the trigger on the Lewis deal.

a lot of teams WILL make moves this offseason though...

DAL, POR, LAL, MIA, NJ, CHA, SEA, IND, SAC
Possible Active teams
NY, MIN (they keep denying the Garnet rumors)

if IT waits too long... he might lose out on Lewis if someone else offers a more attractive package...

Frye had a good rookie season and not as good as a second season, but I do believe he could be used effectively a high low tandem with Curry, a pick and roll tandem with with our guards and as Jeff Van Gundy always would say, We can teach playing defense (see LJ b4 knicks and while with the knicks)... Its something that can be done.

But with all that being said, I'd trade him in a second for Kevin Garnett :)

Exactly... Frye will develop into a beast somewhere... i'd rather it be NY...
 

Kiyaman

Legend
I agree, I would gladly give up Frye who obviously has no future in New York with Eddy Curry being here. We need defensive big men around Curry, and Frye doesn't fit that role.

The Frye & Curry thing did not work out because of POOR-POOR Coaching on Isiah Thomas part. You dont take a Rookie who was shinning in his rookie season in the paint getting rebounds, points, and blockshots, out of the paint for a sub-star Curry who is one dimensional in the paint. You build on Frye talent in the paint area on bothsides of the court. If Frye get traded that is what the next Coach will build around Frye for future improvement each season.

"IF" the Knicks want a decent WINNING 2007-8 Season than Ron Artest is the main player to go after at the start of the offseason. If giving up the "ONLY" SG on the Knicks (Crawford) to get Ron Artest than so be it. It's just that the Knicks have to search hard in the FA market this offseason for a decent 24 MPG SG.
Ron Artest weakness is at the SG-position (it was proven on the Kings because the Kings should have resigned SG-Wells.). Ron Artest strong Values for this Knick team will be at the Point-Foward and the SF/PF-position alongside the quick hustling of C/PF/SF-David Lee and PF/SF-Balkman.
Ron Artest is the teammate that will insist that Channing Frye play within the paint on bothsides of the court alongside of him which Coach Isiah would do not to have a N.Y. Media outburst from Ron Artest.

The Sacremento Kings are in dire need of a SG to go along with PG-"Henry" Bibby in the backcourt. So Crawford would be a player that they can not refuse. Although, I feel that Q.Richardson would be the best trade for Ron Artest so the Knicks playingtime at the SF-position be left to just Ron Artest, Balkman, and Lee. But Q.Rich has become a 40 game season player with his so-call back injury. Plus Q.Rich can not play the SG-position with any of the Knicks PG.

The Knicks POOR perfomance this season was all on Isiah Thomas "SAVE-FACE" coaching style for contract players Marbury, Francis, Q.Rich, Jefferies, and Curry, getting big minutes of playingtime (without a system that coincide with each of their talents)...
 

metrocard

Legend
The best possible thing that can happend is IF the Knicks obtain both Ray Allen and Ron Artest. I rather pursue Allen over Lewis, where Allen can be an excellent primary scorer. I would definately give up Curry for Allen and a draft pick, Allen is a superior all around scorer. with a 1-2-3-4 of Marbury Allen Artest and Lee, it doesnt matter who you got at C.

Knicks send
Crawford
Robinson
Curry

Sonics send
Allen
Petro

Seattle
Ridnour
Crawford
Durant
Collison
Curry


^ Isiahsexuals, don't get tight cause I just traded away your two untouchable God's in Crawford and Curry. But Crawford and Curry are C+ players. Allen is an A player, Robinson is barely a C, and Petro is a young center with potential as well who's a C player. Its a fair deal for both teams.

Knicks send
Channing Frye
Q-Rich

Kings send
Garcia
Artest

Kings
Bibby
Martin
Richardson
Frye
Miller



Knicks
Marbury/Collins
Allen/Garcia
Artest/Balkman
Lee/Jeffries
Petro/James

I'm not saying its possible, but its like I would like to see be offered by Isiah. We're not even a .500 team, so theres no problem trading 3-5 guys from this team this off season. Isiah Thomas has an ego and won't give up Curry or Crawford till he's dead. So yes, you can deal these deals unrealstic. Regardless, they're great deals.


Kiyaman, I agree with you where Isiah has been over playing Curry to make the Curry deal look favorable to him. Thats all Isiah seems to care about this point. Even in interviews, he feels its the greatest thing to ever happend to this Franchise that Chicago got the 9 pick. He dodged every other issue we're facing as a team, and just focused on a Curry deal that got us no playoffs.

Sacramento already got Martin at SG.
 
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I love Ron's game and he's a player I think that will make us a better team, but I don't think we should be so quick to give up Channing, I think that he's the type of player that will work hard every off season until he's a All Star.
 

FameMos

Benchwarmer
I love Ron's game and he's a player I think that will make us a better team, but I don't think we should be so quick to give up Channing, I think that he's the type of player that will work hard every off season until he's a All Star.
I COMPLETELY AGREE. When they said 'he's 2 frale' he came in the following season BUILT (That's why his shot was off @ the beginning of the season) I GUARANTEE that next season Frye's gonna put up better #'s than he did his rookie season. Frye is the type of player who's gonna work on his weaknesses, improve his strengths and give 110% ere time he's on the floor (unlike 1 Bigman we have in are starting lineup.) Like u said, he's gonna work hard every season till he's a All Star, and he will be an All Star more than Mr. Curry.
 

metrocard

Legend
I COMPLETELY AGREE. When they said 'he's 2 frale' he came in the following season BUILT (That's why his shot was off @ the beginning of the season) I GUARANTEE that next season Frye's gonna put up better #'s than he did his rookie season. Frye is the type of player who's gonna work on his weaknesses, improve his strengths and give 110% ere time he's on the floor (unlike 1 Bigman we have in are starting lineup.) Like u said, he's gonna work hard every season till he's a All Star, and he will be an All Star more than Mr. Curry.

I hope so.
 

lilman_bklyn

Rotation player
The best possible thing that can happend is IF the Knicks obtain both Ray Allen and Ron Artest. I rather pursue Allen over Lewis, where Allen can be an excellent primary scorer. I would definately give up Curry for Allen and a draft pick, Allen is a superior all around scorer. with a 1-2-3-4 of Marbury Allen Artest and Lee, it doesnt matter who you got at C.

WOW, CURRY is a C+ player? C+? I love Allen, and I have stated in threads previously that the Knicks should go after him, but trading the reason they should go after him is to utilize him with Curry for that inside out game. THe sonics NBA on a whole will view the Knicks as a laughing stock once again if they traded Curry and Crawford for Allen and Petro. Curry right now is one of the top post players in the NBA, in a year or two, he will be the most dominant. On the defensive end, He can be coached that I truly believe He will get better on the defensive end, and after everything is said done, Howard Yao and Oden will NOT be better than Curry
 

The 1 and Only

Rotation player
I agree completely...except Yao and Curry will be the premiere Centers of this league and I can't say that Curry will be better than Yao but he will be up there with him if not above him. Time will tell because again...he's a young post player that hasn't tapped into half of his potential yet...
 

FameMos

Benchwarmer
Curry will not be better than Yao. Yao (b4 he had that knee injury) looked like he was the best C in the NBA.
 

lilman_bklyn

Rotation player
The Yao statement is true, but at the same time Curry is getting better as well. I would say that Yao is the only player i mentioned that would have better numbers than Curry and even if then, not by much...
 

metrocard

Legend
Howard Yao and Oden will NOT be better than Curry

Sorry, I was gonna reply to your post, but when I read that...I really have nothing else to say to you.


I'll just explain my post a little better.

Curry is a C+ player. Curry is always disinterested on the defensive end, is a timid defensive rebounder, and turns the ball over too often. He has potential to be a B player because he has 10+ years in the NBA.

Dwight and Curry have the same problems offensively. Dwight is very one dementional, all he can do at this point is over power his man and dunk. He has potential offensively, but Dwight is a superior rebounder, defender, much more atheletic and explosive. He's also stronger and younger than Curry. Choosing Curry over Dwight Howard is comical. Ask how many Magic fans they would trade Dwight for Curry, and see how many laughs you would get in your face.

Tim Duncan = A+
Yao Ming = A
Amare Stoudimire = B+(close to an A, I'll consider it since he made the all NBA first team)
Dwight = B+
Boozer = B+
Al J = B
Curry = C+

Averaging 19.5 doesn't make you the best or one of the best centers in the NBA automatically. Curry averaged 19.5 as the primary option on offense.

Al Jefferson has proven he's as good, if not better than Curry. Jefferson averaged 16 ppg and 11 rebs and 1.5 blks on 2 turnovers a game. I MUCH rather have that from Curry than 19.5 ppg 6 rebs, not one block and almost 4 turnovers a game. Its frustrating and sad at the same time to know that it has to take almost 4 turnovers a game for Curry to score only 19 points per game. What will it take for 24 ppg? 6 or 7? How many touches does Curry need to reach that level? The saddest part is CURRY doesn't get alot of assist out of those touches. Prove me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Curry is last in the NBA in assist per 40 minutes. He has to be, or have one of the worst assist to turnover ratios in the NBA. Accually...I'm wrong, Curry is 411 in the NBA in assist to turnover ratio. .23 is as bad as it gets. Curry isn't the only good post scorer in the NBA, lets stop being foolish here. Guys like Al Jefferson, Howard, Carlos Boozer, Yao Ming, Tim Duncan, Amare Stoudmire are some of the premier big men in the NBA that have superior value compared to Curry.

Isiah has fooled many, many today believe Curry is capable of being a franchise player, Isiah has even convinced people that Curry is untradable. Its okay, thats Isiah's job. You will feel like fools in 2-3 years and look back at what you HAD believe, similar to the people who supported the Francis deal...the Crawford deal...not trading Frye for Artest...supporting Isiah's extention. These are the same people who turn out to look foolish on their blind assumptions.

Curry right now isn't an all star player. My frustration with Curry is his failure to PROGRESS on other aspects of his game. We know Curry strengths when he came here, if he's going to lead this franchise, we need him to be more WELL ROUNDED, because his weaknesses unfortunately weight out his strengths.
 
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Starks

Starter
Sorry, I was gonna reply to your post, but when I read that...I really have nothing else to say to you.


I'll just explain my post a little better.

Curry is a C+ player. Curry is always disinterested on the defensive end, is a timid defensive rebounder, and turns the ball over too often. He has potential to be a B player because he has 10+ years in the NBA.

Dwight and Curry have the same problems offensively. Dwight is very one dementional, all he can do at this point is over power his man and dunk. He has potential offensively, but Dwight is a superior rebounder, defender, much more atheletic and explosiveness. He's also stronger and younger than Curry. Choosing Curry over Dwight Howard is comical. Ask how many Magic fans they would trade Dwight for Curry, and see how many laughs you would get in your face.

Tim Duncan = A+
Yao Ming = A
Amare Stoudimire = B+(close to an A, I'll consider it since he made the all NBA first team)
Dwight = B+
Boozer = B+
Al J = B
Curry = C+

Averaging 19.5 doesn't make you the best or one of the best centers in the NBA automatically. Curry averaged 19.5 as the primary option on offense.

Al Jefferson has proven he's as good, if not better than Curry. Jefferson averaged 16 ppg and 11 rebs and 1.5 blks on 2 turnovers a game. I MUCH rather have that from Curry than 19.5 ppg 6 rebs, not one block and almost 4 turnovers a game. Its frustrating and sad at the same time to know that it has to take almost 4 turnovers a game for Curry to score only 19 points per game. What will it take for 24 ppg? 6 or 7? How many touches does Curry need to reach that level? The saddest part is CURRY doesn't get alot of assist out of those touches. Prove me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Curry is last in the NBA in assist per 40 minutes. He has to be, or have one of the worst assist to turnover ratios in the NBA. Accually...I'm wrong, Curry is 411 in the NBA in assist to turnover ratio. .23 is as bad as it gets. Curry isn't the only good post scorer in the NBA, lets stop being foolish here. Guys like Al Jefferson, Howard, Carlos Boozer, Yao Ming, Tim Duncan, Amare Stoudmire are some of the premier big men in the NBA that have superior value compared to Curry.

Isiah has fooled many, many today believe Curry is capable of being a franchise player, Isiah has even convinced people that Curry is untradable. Its okay, thats Isiah's job. You will feel like fools in 2-3 years and look back at what you HAD believe, similar to the people who supported the Francis deal...the Crawford deal...not trading Frye for Artest...supporting Isiah's extention. These are the same people who turn out to look foolish on their blind assumptions.

Curry right now isn't an all star player. My frustration with Curry is his failure to PROGRESS on other aspects of his game. We know Curry strengths when he came here, if he's going to lead this franchise, we need him to be more WELL ROUNDED, because his weaknesses unfortunately weight out his strengths.


Good post man. I thought Curry should be atleast a B or B- minus, but you proved ur point. So i agree. Still, one of the most talked about goals for the Knicks offseason is to have Eddy develop a jump shot.

Curry with a jump shot would make us 3x more deadly on the floor. If they can teach him to shoot, then we can start talkin all-star games
 

metrocard

Legend
Good post man. I thought Curry should be atleast a B or B- minus, but you proved ur point. So i agree. Still, one of the most talked about goals for the Knicks offseason is to have Eddy develop a jump shot.

Curry with a jump shot would make us 3x more deadly on the floor. If they can teach him to shoot, then we can start talkin all-star games

Yeh, Curry with a jumpshot will make our offense much quicker and effective. You know how long it takes to get Curry in position, and with our PG's, it takes longer to pass it to Curry. We always get that back to the back with 5-7 seconds left on the shot clock with Curry. He doesn't pass out, so its either going to be a FG, a miss shot, a turnover or an offensive rebound. Curry would decrease his turnovers and increase his PPG with a jumpshot.

Curry doesn't shoot jumpers, but he isn't a bad shooter, with repitition, I believe he can be a consistant jumpshooter.
 

MSGKnickz33

The Gold Mac
Its gonna be a sight next year when a 6'11" 285 pound monster is takin jumpshots but if he can make them, why not take them? I think if Chaning Frye is still there next year, they have to find a way to get him more involved offensively. Artest is the best defensive small forward I have ever seen in my life. The knicks, however, need a shot blocker more than a guy who can slow down some of the best sf's and sg's in the league. Q-Rich has done this when healthy. I remember pierce havin a terrible game cuz of q-rich and also King James was slowed down by Q-rich. Another guy whos supposed to and i think can slow down these players is jared jeffries. As much as I love Ron artests game and I love queens, i dont think the knicks need him. I'm not tryin to suggest that q-rich and jeffries are just as good as artest, no way dont get it twisted. I think what the knicks got at that position is good enough. The biggest problem with this knick team is at the powerforward and center positions. They aint got much defense and almost no shotblocking. Isiah would never trade curry. I think David Lee is a keeper becasue although hes not a great defender hes a good defender and a great rebounder. I think Frye is the guy thats gotta go even though I think he'll be a very good player maybe even next year. I'd give him until the trade deadline. He's gotta start blockin more shots which he certainitly has the potential to do. I'd say somewhere between 1.5 and 2 blocks a game he needs to average. Otherwise, I would get rid of him and find a shot blocker.
 

FameMos

Benchwarmer
Frye was supposed 2 be a shot blocker when we drafted him. So far it looks like he's just a bigman who can shoot. But how do u expect him 2 be an impact player if he's not getting the consistent Playing Time? I think if he got PT and was able 2 get into the flow of the game we would see him do his thing.
 

The 1 and Only

Rotation player
Frye was supposed 2 be a shot blocker when we drafted him. So far it looks like he's just a bigman who can shoot. But how do u expect him 2 be an impact player if he's not getting the consistent Playing Time? I think if he got PT and was able 2 get into the flow of the game we would see him do his thing.

Exactly! I always thought Frye was a decent shot blocker...no he's not the most experienced on the defensive end but if we give him time he might rise to the occasion...
 

metrocard

Legend
Frye was supposed 2 be a shot blocker when we drafted him. So far it looks like he's just a bigman who can shoot. But how do u expect him 2 be an impact player if he's not getting the consistent Playing Time? I think if he got PT and was able 2 get into the flow of the game we would see him do his thing.

I think Frye would be a solid shot blocker, but he doesn't like physical play or cover the paint on defense. Frye has the long body...if he develops a mean streak, I wouldn't be suprised to see Frye averaged 1.5 blk per game...same with Curry. But these guys play cupcake defense consistantly.
 

lilman_bklyn

Rotation player
Sorry, I was gonna reply to your post, but when I read that...I really have nothing else to say to you.


I'll just explain my post a little better.

Curry is a C+ player. Curry is always disinterested on the defensive end, is a timid defensive rebounder, and turns the ball over too often. He has potential to be a B player because he has 10+ years in the NBA.

Dwight and Curry have the same problems offensively. Dwight is very one dementional, all he can do at this point is over power his man and dunk. He has potential offensively, but Dwight is a superior rebounder, defender, much more atheletic and explosive. He's also stronger and younger than Curry. Choosing Curry over Dwight Howard is comical. Ask how many Magic fans they would trade Dwight for Curry, and see how many laughs you would get in your face.

Tim Duncan = A+
Yao Ming = A
Amare Stoudimire = B+(close to an A, I'll consider it since he made the all NBA first team)
Dwight = B+
Boozer = B+
Al J = B
Curry = C+

Averaging 19.5 doesn't make you the best or one of the best centers in the NBA automatically. Curry averaged 19.5 as the primary option on offense.

Al Jefferson has proven he's as good, if not better than Curry. Jefferson averaged 16 ppg and 11 rebs and 1.5 blks on 2 turnovers a game. I MUCH rather have that from Curry than 19.5 ppg 6 rebs, not one block and almost 4 turnovers a game. Its frustrating and sad at the same time to know that it has to take almost 4 turnovers a game for Curry to score only 19 points per game. What will it take for 24 ppg? 6 or 7? How many touches does Curry need to reach that level? The saddest part is CURRY doesn't get alot of assist out of those touches. Prove me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Curry is last in the NBA in assist per 40 minutes. He has to be, or have one of the worst assist to turnover ratios in the NBA. Accually...I'm wrong, Curry is 411 in the NBA in assist to turnover ratio. .23 is as bad as it gets. Curry isn't the only good post scorer in the NBA, lets stop being foolish here. Guys like Al Jefferson, Howard, Carlos Boozer, Yao Ming, Tim Duncan, Amare Stoudmire are some of the premier big men in the NBA that have superior value compared to Curry.

Isiah has fooled many, many today believe Curry is capable of being a franchise player, Isiah has even convinced people that Curry is untradable. Its okay, thats Isiah's job. You will feel like fools in 2-3 years and look back at what you HAD believe, similar to the people who supported the Francis deal...the Crawford deal...not trading Frye for Artest...supporting Isiah's extention. These are the same people who turn out to look foolish on their blind assumptions.

Curry right now isn't an all star player. My frustration with Curry is his failure to PROGRESS on other aspects of his game. We know Curry strengths when he came here, if he's going to lead this franchise, we need him to be more WELL ROUNDED, because his weaknesses unfortunately weight out his strengths.

I want to preface this by stating understanding the words that are written/spoken is crucial to any debate... I stated previously that those other Centers will NOT be judged better than Curry. That's not to say Curry will be better than them or vice versa. But whatever, Ya wanna dance... lets Dance

Firstly, Duncan and Boozer are PF's and I will try not to address them. Secondly, besides maybe Q balkman and Mardy, the entire knicks team appeared disinterested on the defensive end. I really don't believe that the coaches made it a focus, and the entire team took that to heart.As I said, the defense can be taught. Curry has proved that he is willing to make himself better. Also, the "good defender" title can be deceptive in itself. With the exception of Yao, almost all other elite big men who had to guard to EC came up short or were either a wash.

In regards to the turnovers, this is the only season that Curry has averaged over 3 TO's per game, I will argue that the constant double teaming, which he was not used to previously in his career, added to this amount. In addition to that, if you check, ALL big men(PF and Centers) who handled the ball on a regular basis were prone to over 2 or 3 TO's a game. It's not something that strictly is plaguing Curry and no one else, so lets not fool people into thinking that is the case. This off season he will work on handling the double and triple teams, and the Knicks coaching staff should work on plays to make teams pay for double and triple teaming Curry. If after next season there is no improvement I will be the first to say yes there is a problem there, but come on, dont act as if the guy is getting the ball and dribbling it off his foot (no pun intended Vince) with no one guarding him. Please provide all the information


In regards to Dwight Howard, I want to point to my previous statement where I said, when going head to head, the story stats speak for themselves. Look, when you don't have any other person on your team who can grab a rebound then you had better average over 10.The fact is with the exception of Chicago Denver and the Hornets, all of the other rebound leaders do not have anyone else on their teams who rebound (hence their teams are not any of the beter rebounding teams in the league. The knicks are the 5th leading rebound team in the nba, Curry not rebounding 10+ a game is not what's hurting the knicks. With that being said, please note that I do not believe that 7 rebounds is acceptable for curry, but he is in the top 30 in rebounds and with just 1.5 more rebounds a game, he is in the top 15. So lets not act as if Curry becoming a top rebounder is so totally out of the question.

The fact is Curry has never learned the nuances of the game, that is HIS fault, and that is the fault of his COACHES in the past. He had raw talent and utilized it and never worked on it. I have said this a few times and I will say it again... Defense can be taught. Once a defensive mind set is instilled in the team, the team will adapt, you can tell the main focus the coaches had last year with Curry was improving his offensive game and he has improved it to the tune of the most points in the paint last year.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
Eddy Curry improvement maybe questionable in the seasons to come although, Curry did start to show outstanding improvement this past season when Coach Isiah Thomas put David Lee into the starting lineup.

We Knick-fans seen Curry gather 9 straight Double-Doubles with David Lee & Crawford alongside of him in the Knicks Starting lineup (then came Jared Jefferies off of the injured list and imediatly put into the Knicks rotation for 30 MPG his first outing as a Knick.).
The Knicks started looking good and ready to lead their division with the Starting lineup of Curry, Lee, Q.Rich, Crawford, and Marbury, with Balkman, Nate, and Cato comming off the bench (there was NO-Need or NO-Room for Jared Jefferies in the rotation at that time.).
Whether that Knick starting lineup was an accident or the coach got tired of his weak Bigmen-frontline & confuse-Backcourt (injury to both Frye & Francis) it was the beginning of chemistry in the Knicks starting lineup which been missing since the arrival of Marbury & Isiah Thomas.
However, the short role of playingtime inwhich was given to Cato as Curry backup when David Lee was a starter could have been given to Channing Frye for a younger & quicker sub-bigman downlow to replace Curry.

What was President/Head-Coach Isiah Thomas thinking or drinking when he added Jared Jefferies to this Knick Starting Rotation for 30 MPG of playingtime when his special project player (Curry) was finally comming into his game by having (9) consecutive "Double-Double" games, untill Jared Jefferies was added to the lineup???
 
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