Sign and Trade Possibilities

CA7 said:

you fail to realize that size is a big factor in winning basketball.

losing Shumpert a 6'5 Guard who can defend 3 positions, putting Lin a small guard at the 2 with Nash another defensive liability wont make us a better team.

Also I'm sick of hearing team ball, WTF is that. Team ball is designed for teams who dont have the true #1 option to run an offense through. Our goal should be to add 2 way role players which was our biggest problem

we put out Jeffries which helped our D but took away from our O, Novak helped our O but hurt our D.

Lin/Shumpert/Anthony/Stoudemire/Chandler/Smith is a solid 6 guys to start with. If Landry can work on his jumpert, Jeffries becomes a more consistent finisher around the rim and becomes our Haslem and we add a 2 way PG like Hinrich or LeBron's dad then we'll be fine with that true 9 man rotation and Novak as a spot minute guy when we need to use him

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BALL MOVEMENT

It usually occurs when you have a point guard that can penetrate the defense and draw defenders to him so that other guys are open.

The Point Guard creates ball movement, unless you have a pointforward like Lebron.

Lin can do that but Nash is one of the best in the league.

And it is proven already that Nash helped Amare become a multiple all star.

We had "size" in Chandler but we didnt have a PG that could orchestrate the offense.

People say Amare and Melo don't fit...we can say that is true beyond a shadow of a doubt when they have a legit PG for a full season and if the same thing occurs with a stagnant offense.

Nash is plan A, Lin is plan B....we can even have both if we can promise Lin a big contract extension when Nash retires....it will be hard to keep both if Nash commits but I am sure Lin would want to.


....my point is you can have allstars at SF, PF, and C which we basically do but it means nothing if you don't have a legit PG to orchestrate the offense.

I believe Lin can, but Nash is better and having them both on the floor at once will create ball movement at the highest level.

Paul1355 said:

BALL MOVEMENT

It usually occurs when you have a point guard that can penetrate the defense and draw defenders to him so that other guys are open.

The Point Guard creates ball movement, unless you have a pointforward like Lebron.

Lin can do that but Nash is one of the best in the league.

And it is proven already that Nash helped Amare become a multiple all star.

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How about player movement, how about some sets where you dont just have free lancing motion style basketball with nothin but pick n rolls and 3's

I'd rather have an offense where we had real plays set up to utilize our best threat on offense and the other guys played off of it as such.

team ball isn't just ball movement, its working together not only on O but also D, its if our best player is isolating his man let me flash dive or fade to create some room for him so he can score or if he's doubled I moved already so my man has to recover. Not pass the ball around the arch, drive, kick, 3 rebound get back bull **** D'Antoni does

CA7 said:

How about player movement, how about some sets where you dont just have free lancing motion style basketball with nothin but pick n rolls and 3's

I'd rather have an offense where we had real plays set up to utilize our best threat on offense and the other guys played off of it as such.

team ball isn't just ball movement, its working together not only on O but also D, its if our best player is isolating his man let me flash dive or fade to create some room for him so he can score or if he's doubled I moved already so my man has to recover. Not pass the ball around the arch, drive, kick, 3 rebound get back bull **** D'Antoni does

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Defense was not a big problem once Mike D left...we were one of the best defensive teams and Shumpert is a big part of that.

However the main problem with our team is stagnation on offense that can be solved instantly with Steve Nash, he is the perfect addition to this team.

WOrking togther has to start with the ball handler

Paul1355 said:

Defense was not a big problem once Mike D left...we were one of the best defensive teams and Shumpert is a big part of that.

However the main problem with our team is stagnation on offense that can be solved instantly with Steve Nash, he is the perfect addition to this team.

WOrking togther has to start with the ball handler

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Haven't you realized though that Melo is comfortable being a spot up guy which is what Nash will turn him into. Nash needs the ball and needs to either make the pass or take the shot. We already have that with Lin. Nash is a great player but he just doesn't fit with what I think our team identity should be. Half court execution and stout defense. Not uptempo offense and mediocre defense

CA7 said:

Haven't you realized though that Melo is comfortable being a spot up guy which is what Nash will turn him into. Nash needs the ball and needs to either make the pass or take the shot. We already have that with Lin. Nash is a great player but he just doesn't fit with what I think our team identity should be. Half court execution and stout defense. Not uptempo offense and mediocre defense

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Lin also brings uptempo offense with better defense than Nash.
Nash can be effective in an uptempo offense and in a half court(the pick and roll with Amare made the Suns deadly in the halfcourt)

A great point guard is not suited for one style, he can adjust and be just as effective. Rajon Rondo is fantastic on the break but knows how to break down a defense in the half court because he knows where to kick it out to Garnett on the pick and pop, Pierce on the wing and Allen off the screen.

Its like saying the Clippers don't need Billups because they already have Paul. Both players can create bal movement just like Nash will with the Knicks.

More passers will only help a team and help other players.

I don't see how you can be worried in anyway with Nash joining the KNicks, he makes everyone around him better no matter who it is.

How the hell did the Suns almost make the playoffs in a tough western conference? The had no one except Nash making everyone better, that is how good this guy still is.

He would only be a plus and his defense is suspect but fortunatly we have Tyson Chandler helping out behind him...take the very good with the bad.

Nash's defense won't ruin games....but his offense and court vision could win a title.

Paul1355 said:

Lin also brings uptempo offense with better defense than Nash.
Nash can be effective in an uptempo offense and in a half court(the pick and roll with Amare made the Suns deadly in the halfcourt)

A great point guard is not suited for one style, he can adjust and be just as effective. Rajon Rondo is fantastic on the break but knows how to break down a defense in the half court because he knows where to kick it out to Garnett on the pick and pop, Pierce on the wing and Allen off the screen.

Its like saying the Clippers don't need Billups because they already have Paul. Both players can create bal movement just like Nash will with the Knicks.

More passers will only help a team and help other players.

I don't see how you can be worried in anyway with Nash joining the KNicks, he makes everyone around him better no matter who it is.

How the hell did the Suns almost make the playoffs in a tough western conference? The had no one except Nash making everyone better, that is how good this guy still is.

He would only be a plus and his defense is suspect but fortunatly we have Tyson Chandler helping out behind him...take the very good with the bad.

Nash's defense won't ruin games....but his offense and court vision could win a title.

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Paul and Billups in a back court together dont hurt their team defense as both are great defenders.

The Suns made the playoffs based off the fact that their "system" won games in the regular season as playoff style basketball is more physical and a slower pace.

The Suns had the correct players also to make that system work. spot up shooters, guys who couldn't create much for themselves but had open looks because STAT was rollin and defenses collapsed.

You wanna see Melo sit in the corner again and jack up 3's, how about Tyson where does he fit with the Nash style offense. Remember Shaq lookin dumb running with Phoenix.

Nash is a great player just not for us.

CA7 said:

Paul and Billups in a back court together dont hurt their team defense as both are great defenders.

The Suns made the playoffs based off the fact that their "system" won games in the regular season as playoff style basketball is more physical and a slower pace.

The Suns had the correct players also to make that system work. spot up shooters, guys who couldn't create much for themselves but had open looks because STAT was rollin and defenses collapsed.

You wanna see Melo sit in the corner again and jack up 3's, how about Tyson where does he fit with the Nash style offense. Remember Shaq lookin dumb running with Phoenix.

Nash is a great player just not for us.

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Don't agree at all.

Nash makes everyone around him better...if Melo can not fit with Nash than he can't fit with anyone. Melo fit well with Billups...Tyson fit well with Paul.

All it takes it a PG that can hit guys with open shots.

These guys are all stars, all they need is a PG to feed them. I don't know why you are so negative to the idea as if it would not work.

Not having someone like Nash puts us as more of a risk of this never working because you are asking a lot out of Jeremy Lin.

Paul1355 said:

Don't agree at all.

Nash makes everyone around him better...if Melo can not fit with Nash than he can't fit with anyone. Melo fit well with Billups...Tyson fit well with Paul.

All it takes it a PG that can hit guys with open shots.

These guys are all stars, all they need is a PG to feed them. I don't know why you are so negative to the idea as if it would not work.

Not having someone like Nash puts us as more of a risk of this never working because you are asking a lot out of Jeremy Lin.

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Look I like Nash but adding him, puts Lin on the bench then in 2 or 3 years when Nash is gone, Melo is still here Lin is back as a starter hurting his morale, what is both Lin and Nash sign 3 year deals and Nash retires and Lin opts to sing elsewhere because we benched him for Nash now we have no PG. Adding a vet who is comfortable playing behind our PG is a better idea then adding one to replace him for now. Its like in football when the Broncos added Manning, you think they were gonna keep Tebow, NO

If we add Nash it could hurt us in the long run. Also adding him on 10mil per and Lin getting a back loaded deal will put us at like 80mil+ between 5 guys plus Shumpert's extension and JR's likely extension

If we get Nash I'll be happy we added a great talent its just the negatives are very very risky

Paul1355 said:

Nash is the only player that can make us play team basketball with these peices that don't fit....Imagine the combo of Nash and Amare again, the combo that brought the Suns to the Western Conference finals....now add Lin, JR Smith, CHandler and Melo to that team...that is a hell of a lot better than our current team.

Nash as the floor general for a few years is the best way to get a title as soon as possible.

I love Lin, but Nash is better I am sorry.

And Lin can be effective as a 2 guard as well. Lin has strength, his ball handling is not as good as Nash AND he can play like a slashing SG who is a good passer.

Lin also has a nice shot so he would get open looks from Nash.

WHen Nash sits on the bench, Lin takes over at the point with JR playing the 2...the possibilities are endless and there is always fluid ball movement because we always have a legit PG playing.

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:agreed:

The above is how I'd hope things could play out if we were to get Nash.

I think as a floor general he'd help the flow but allowing the ball not to get sucked in the balk hole that his Melo for so many possessions. This would be a good thing as he would know so well how to work ALL of hour options, not JUST the number 1 option. Ball movement suffers when Melo has free reign to operate. Having Nash on the team to direct traffic would cure this.

ronoranina said:

Ball movement suffers when Melo has free reign to operate. Having Nash on the team to direct traffic would cure this.

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Melo will be Melo. Having Nash on the team will not trigger some metamorphosis in Melo's style of play. He needs the ball in hand to be effective just like Kobe.

At this point of their respective careers, I'd place more trust on Melo than Nash.

I don't do too good to be true.

ronoranina said:

:agreed:

The above is how I'd hope things could play out if we were to get Nash.

I think as a floor general he'd keep the ball out of the black hole that is Melo's hands so much. This would be a good thing. Ball movement suffers when Melo has free reign to operate. Having Nash on the team to direct traffic would cure this.

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I agree, but only theoretically.

There are, of course, some negatives (potential or otherwise) to take on board.

●Lin and Melo shared a 60%+ ball use average last season without even playing together for extended periods of time. The 2 of them played their best ball in the absence of the other: Linsanity and Melo's April to remember. Both were best when used as the focal, and that was only ultimately successful for each individual when the other was injured.

Adding Nash to that total will see their games affected, and we know full well how Melo deals with not being the focal ~ he gets coaches fired.

QUESTIONS:

● Is a 38 year old Nash so good that he can make this work?

● How much does Nash really have left?

● Is Melo prepared to step back and let Nash take control? Rhetorical.

● Is Lin ready to take a step back? Why should he re-sign with the Knicks if they're looking to supplant him right when he's ready to ascend?

● And where does Amar'e fit in to the fray with everyone's touches dipping? That became an issue with the addition of Melo alone.

● Will the Knicks remain a top 10 defensive team with Nash on board?

● Where does Shump fit back in to the line up? He'll need to rest anyway, I suppose.

● How does this effect Woodson's M.O going in to the season?

● How would Lin feel about having his best buddy traded for someone that will play Lin's position?

Pop that in your pipe! :lol:

If there's anyone who can stem the flow of egos, it's the best passer in the world, Steve Nash.

But even he will have his work cut out for him looking to appease Melo, Lin and Stoudemire.

I don't do too good to be true. Especially when Melo's involved.

Sorry.

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Having said that, I still seriously doubt if this "dream come true" scenario with the Fields, Douglas, Gadzuric, Jordan and a $3M exception proposal for Steve Nash (one of the most lopsided S&Ts in history) will make it past tomorrow, as other teams will counter it with far more appealing offers for Phoenix/more appealing offers for Nash alone.

Lin and Nash do no co-exist. If they try to keep both other players will have to be moved arguably for pennies.

Wargames said:

Lin and Nash do no co-exist. If they try to keep both other players will have to be moved arguably for pennies.

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Why would they not co-exist? Two guys with court vision and good passers can't co-exist? I thought the selfish players that don't like passing ala Melo and Iverson or Melo and Amare are the ones that can't co-exist

If you think they can't because of who will ball handle, well i don't think anyone will argue with that, the answer is obviously Nash 1st and then Lin 2nd but Lin can be more of a scorer with Nash on the team.

So explain how they can't co exist. Please.

Paul1355 said:

Why would they not co-exist? Two guys with court vision and good passers can't co-exist? I thought the selfish players that don't like passing ala Melo and Iverson or Melo and Amare are the ones that can't co-exist

If you think they can't because of who will ball handle, well i don't think anyone will argue with that, the answer is obviously Nash 1st and then Lin 2nd but Lin can be more of a scorer with Nash on the team.

So explain how they can't co exist. Please.

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I think Nash being a mentor for Lin would have been nice but if we sign Nash I doubt Lin would want to return

CA7 said:

I think Nash being a mentor for Lin would have been nice but if we sign Nash I doubt Lin would want to return

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I have had premonitions of Lin in a Raptors jersey...kind of weird.

As much as I love Nash. I love Lin more.

Give me Kidd because he is willing to come off the bench and can start as well if needed. He will take less money as well

Use a sign and trade on a legit shooting guard like OJ Mayo. or something.

CA7 said:

Look I like Nash but adding him, puts Lin on the bench then in 2 or 3 years when Nash is gone, Melo is still here Lin is back as a starter hurting his morale, what is both Lin and Nash sign 3 year deals and Nash retires and Lin opts to sing elsewhere because we benched him for Nash now we have no PG. Adding a vet who is comfortable playing behind our PG is a better idea then adding one to replace him for now. Its like in football when the Broncos added Manning, you think they were gonna keep Tebow, NO

If we add Nash it could hurt us in the long run. Also adding him on 10mil per and Lin getting a back loaded deal will put us at like 80mil+ between 5 guys plus Shumpert's extension and JR's likely extension

If we get Nash I'll be happy we added a great talent its just the negatives are very very risky

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Wow, a great post from a person who follows Melo so much. What you said is really true. Plus 1 Rep to you

Basically, it's like what CA7 said.

If you think you can win a championship with Nash within 2/3 years, take him.
If you want to grow Lin into a top 5 PG and go the safer long term plan route, don't sign Nash.

It's not about Lin or Nash, it's more about short-term vs long-term.

Paul1355 said:

I have had premonitions of Lin in a Raptors jersey...kind of weird.

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Me too even though we'd likely match imagine having all that money tied up into a starter and a back up, for me its one or the other. I choose Lin

CA7 said:

Me too even though we'd likely match imagine having all that money tied up into a starter and a back up, for me its one or the other. I choose Lin

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Exactly. We have to think about something we need more, like a legit shooting guard.

Shumpert is awesome but he could use another year or two coming off the bench before he is the answer to be a starter. Hes just not quite ready yet imo. And Fields is a backup 3, his jumper is dead.

How about Rudy Fernandez if we lose JR Smith