No joke: D'Antoni has Knicks thinking D

moneyg

Starter
Nice to distort one of my many points. If you are going to quote and distort me you might as well distort my entire post...

Those players played out of position because of our ROSTER guy. I have been making this point for months! MDA tried going traditional with:

C-Mozgov
PF-Amare
SF- Gallo (oversized SF)
SG- Fields (oversized SG who is really a SF)
PG- Felton

6th man- Chandler

^^That is traditional and MDA's FIRST OPTION. He only went to a "small ball" lineup when it was clear Mozgov was not ready and only after we started the season horribly.

Further, we are now going with a traditional lineup:

C-Turiaf when healthy who happens to be our best big or Sheldon/JJ our only two other bigs
PF-Amare
SF-Melo
SG-Fields
PG-Billups

He then rotates in multiple players and PLAYS THE BEST PLAYERS POSSIBLE on our ROSTER.

P.S. Shawne Williams played brilliantly against Dwight Howard with the help of a great team defensive scheme.

P.P.S. If MDA had a legit center that was NBA ready he would play him. This all comes down to our roster and the hard choices MDA must make.

The only thing hilarious is you ever changing points that morph around the dead ends I expose.

turiaf was not injured and he played JJ at center.. dont you agree that sheldan would be a better fit at the 5 than JJ?

O'antoni admitted that he likes to get amare time at the 5...why??..now he has to make some changes.. which his is doing... good for him...

i just think about all the player over the years that were crossed off the list becuase they did not fit his system.. which leads me to believe thats why most BIGs dont develop well under him. and why we dont have additional bigs like most teams in the NBA.. most nba teams have at least 3 PF/Center...

last question.. who is our backup at the 4 spot to amare???
 

nuckles2k2

Superstar
I already addressed both in multiple threads and multiple times in this thread. To say he did not give Mozgov minutes is to ignore reality. To say he did not prefer to have Mozgov as the starting center is to ignore reality. Meh...

Didn't he bench Moz after he showed some growing pains early in the season, only to be forced to play him when we were missing like 2-3 players in our 8 man rotation? I remember that game at the Garden against the Pistons I believe, and we were all chanting Mozgov's name by the end of the game. Then suddenly he starts to get more playing time. Just like the game against Utah when it was out of hand in the 4th, we start chanting for Roger Mason, who steps in hits some shots, and is suddenly in the rotation.

Technically you're right, he did give Moz minutes and he did prefer to start him at some point during the season, but too often MDA gives players minutes after they're either forced into a game because of other players being out, or impressing during garbage time. That doesn't really seem like a coach recognizing what he has and utilizing it.

Trill kind of reminds me of a lawyer. Where someone takes a situation that has two sides two it, and words his statement in a way that kind of diminishes the other side or acts like it's not there.

Yes, to say he did not give Moz minutes and to say he didn't prefer to have him as a starting center is to ignore reality, but to also say that MDA did not bench Moz indefinitely and only give him some minutes when 2-3 of our 8 man rotation was not available, is to also ignore reality.

It's kind of hard to predict (or down right impossible) if Moz would have played in that game or in the stretch of games he had after, if our regular rotation was intact. The evidence of his multiple DNPs before that game lends itself to the notion that he would have sat his big russian ass on the bench for a few more games. But then you can also make the argument that MDA saw "something" in practice and shoot arounds that made him start Moz....it was just a coincidence that Turiaf, Williams, and I think Walker, all weren't playing. One assumption has Mozgov's DNPs and the fact that a quarter of our rotation was out, so we needed bodies to take those minutes, and the other assumption has....
 
Last edited:

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Didn't he bench Moz after he showed some growing pains early in the season, only to be forced to play him when we were missing like 2-3 players in our 8 man rotation? I remember that game at the Garden against the Pistons I believe, and we were all chanting Mozgov's name by the end of the game. Then suddenly he starts to get more playing time. Just like the game against Utah when it was out of hand in the 4th, we start chanting for Roger Mason, who steps in hits some shots, and is suddenly in the rotation.

Technically you're right, he did give Moz minutes and he did prefer to start him at some point during the season, but too often MDA gives players minutes after they're either forced into a game because of other players being out, or impressing during garbage time. That doesn't really seem like a coach recognizing what he has and utilizing it.

Trill kind of reminds me of a lawyer. Where someone takes a situation that has two sides two it, and words his statement in a way that kind of diminishes the other side or acts like it's not there.

Yes, to say he did not give Moz minutes and to say he didn't prefer to have him as a starting center is to ignore reality, but to also say that MDA did not bench Moz indefinitely and only give him some minutes when 2-3 of our 8 man rotation was not available, is to also ignore reality.

It's kind of hard to predict (or down right impossible) if Moz would have played in that game or in the stretch of games he had after, if our regular rotation was intact. The evidence of his multiple DNPs before that game lends itself to the notion that he would have sat his big russian ass on the bench for a few more games. But then you can also make the argument that MDA saw "something" in practice and shoot arounds that made him start Moz....it was just a coincidence that Turiaf, Williams, and I think Walker, all weren't playing. One assumption has Mozgov's DNPs and the fact that a quarter of our rotation was out, so we needed bodies to take those minutes, and the other assumption has....


Read all my posts. I clearly stated that MDA started the season with Moz as his first option and benched him at of necessity for Chandler. (that adjustment lead to many wins) That point was made in response to the inaccurate assertion that MDA's first choice is to run a small team. Further, while Mozgov got his second chance because of injury having Mozgov starting was always MDA's preferred choice. Sure it took a breakout game to get his spot BACK but MDA stayed with him even when injuries were no longer a factor. Those facts directly counter assertions that MDA prefers a small lineup verse a traditional lineup. MDA pefers any lineup that is going to win games.

BTW, comparing me to a lawyer in the context of a back and forth debate is a compliment so thank you.
 
It's kind of hard to predict (or down right impossible) if Moz would have played in that game or in the stretch of games he had after, if our regular rotation was intact. The evidence of his multiple DNPs before that game lends itself to the notion that he would have sat his big russian ass on the bench for a few more games. But then you can also make the argument that MDA saw "something" in practice and shoot arounds that made him start Moz....it was just a coincidence that Turiaf, Williams, and I think Walker, all weren't playing. One assumption has Mozgov's DNPs and the fact that a quarter of our rotation was out, so we needed bodies to take those minutes, and the other assumption has....

I understand what you're saying but you are missing one key point. When MOA was asked by the media immediately before that Detroit game if Moz was back in the rotation, MOA said "I'm not going to upset my applecart." Clearly stating Moz was going back to the bench.

Only Moz BEASTED and forced his way into the lineup. MOA had no clue what he had with Moz or AR. Or he had a clue and just didnt care. Remember he wants to win HIS WAY...
 
Read all my posts. I clearly stated that MDA started the season with Moz as his first option and benched him at of necessity for Chandler. (that adjustment lead to many wins) That point was made in response to the inaccurate assertion that MDA's first choice is to run a small team. Further, while Mozgov got his second chance because of injury having Mozgov starting was always MDA's preferred choice. Sure it took a breakout game to get his spot BACK but MDA stayed with him even when injuries were no longer a factor. Those facts directly counter assertions that MDA prefers a small lineup verse a traditional lineup. MDA pefers any lineup that is going to win games.

MOA was forced to stay with him. It wasnt a shrewd coaching move like you're trying to portray it. I dont understand why you guys that protect MOA dont look at the facts. Look at the facts and anyone with any sort of intelligence can sort through this.

See my post to Nuckles...
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
MOA was forced to stay with him. It wasnt a shrewd coaching move like you're trying to portray it. I dont understand why you guys that protect MOA dont look at the facts. Look at the facts and anyone with any sort of intelligence can sort through this.

See my post to Nuckles...

He was not forced to stay with anything once the injury was not a factor. I have already said that injury forced MDA to give Moz a second chance so save your tired nonsense. We get it...MDA is the devil and anyone who doesn't agree with you is in the MDA Mickey Mouse club...
 
He was not forced to stay with anything once the injury was not a factor. I have already said that injury forced MDA to give Moz a second chance so save your tired nonsense. We get it...MDA is the devil and anyone who doesn't agree with you is in the MDA Mickey Mouse club...

Trust me he was forced. Forced by MOZ's play. Let me ask you this. After that Detroit game how would MOA look to the fans, media, GM and owner if he benched Moz? Not good I'm assuming your answer will be.

He had no choice but to play the kid...
 
One or two good games from Moz doesn't erase that he was struggled to put up anything more than 2 pts & 3 boards per game. Thats what he averaged in NY. Pathetic. Turiaf over Mozgov all day.

Fields. Became the best NY rookie since Mark Jackson under MDA. MDA seen his overall talents & started since game #2.

Chandler. Blew up under MDA's offensive system. Fans fell in love with Wilson.

Felton. Had a career year under MDA.

Gallo. Became a star in NY because of MDA. MDA scouted this kid out of the Italian leagues himself.

Mozgov. Sucked, but MDA still gave him a chance to perform as a raw rookie project out of Russia. DEN liked his potential.

Amare. Has been developed under MDA since being drafted straight out of HS. We love Amare. We signed him to 100M with MDA as coach because of his offense. Not defense.

The ONLY reason why Melo is a Knick this year is because Gallo, Chandler & Felton ALL blew up under MDA.

Keep talking about "AR" while REFUSING to talk about SUCCESS of other players under MDA. Trash
 

NY17

Benchwarmer
One or two good games from Moz doesn't erase that he was struggled to put up anything more than 2 pts & 3 boards per game. Thats what he averaged in NY. Pathetic. Turiaf over Mozgov all day.

Mozgov's rookie year: 4 points 3 boards (correct Knicks averages, unlike the ones you made up) Turiaf's rookie year: 2 points 2 boards Turiaf's 6th year: 4 points 3 boards So Turiaf is averaging the same numbers in his 6th year as Mozgov was his rookie year. If you want to use stats to argue I can play too.
 
I'd rather have Billups & Melo for the playoffs this yeah; over AR any day of the week & twice during the playoffs.

We wouldn't have Melo right now, unless Gallo, Chandler & Felton all BLEW UP under MDA & his excellent offensive system. Remember that.

We landed Amare for 100M because of his amazing offensive production under MDA during his PHX days. MDA developed Amare since a kid out of HS. Remeber that.

Wake me up when AR wins a Finals MVP award (Billups) or becomes a top 3-5 NBA superstar (Melo). Better yet? Wake me up when AR becomes consistant. Before last night? lol, look @ his 4 previous games. Put up JJ & Mozgov numbers & even got benched for struggles.

AR looked like shit during the entire preseason. That was his chance. The preseason & he blew it as a Knick. It's no secret that he became a better offensive player BECAUSE of getting developed under MDA from the bench & from practices. You better believe AR was taking notes from MDA, watching film with the team & trying to erase a BAD preseason.
 

NY17

Benchwarmer
I'd rather have Billups & Melo for the playoffs this yeah; over AR any day of the week & twice during the playoffs.

We wouldn't have Melo right now, unless Gallo, Chandler & Felton all BLEW UP under MDA & his excellent offensive system. Remember that.

We landed Amare for 100M because of his amazing offensive production under MDA during his PHX days. MDA developed Amare since a kid out of HS. Remeber that.

Wake me up when AR wins a Finals MVP award (Billups) or becomes a top 3-5 NBA superstar (Melo). Better yet? Wake me up when AR becomes consistant. Before last night? lol, look @ his 4 previous games. Put up JJ & Mozgov numbers & even got benched for struggles.

AR looked like shit during the entire preseason. That was his chance. The preseason & he blew it as a Knick. It's no secret that he became a better offensive player BECAUSE of getting developed under MDA from the bench & from practices. You better believe AR was taking notes from MDA, watching film with the team & trying to erase a BAD preseason.

You said the same exact thing 1 post ago...in the same thread.
 
Kinicksfan is truly delusional. AR developed into a double double under MOA, and MOA didnt use him? :teeth: WOW. As far as AR's last four games you do realize Love was back and getting minutes. So the fluctuation in stats & PT could be expected.

Why bring up Chandler? Gallo? Felton? Any of those guys when we know MOA's game plan revolves around these types of players. Basically he lets shooters shoot more than any other coach in the league. Its not impressive.

When he's able to realize basketball players come in different sizes, capabilities and skill levels and is able to utilize these different things HOLLA AT ME...:smokin:
 

moneyg

Starter
One or two good games from Moz doesn't erase that he was struggled to put up anything more than 2 pts & 3 boards per game. Thats what he averaged in NY. Pathetic. Turiaf over Mozgov all day.

Fields. Became the best NY rookie since Mark Jackson under MDA. MDA seen his overall talents & started since game #2.

Chandler. Blew up under MDA's offensive system. Fans fell in love with Wilson.

Felton. Had a career year under MDA.

Gallo. Became a star in NY because of MDA. MDA scouted this kid out of the Italian leagues himself.

Mozgov. Sucked, but MDA still gave him a chance to perform as a raw rookie project out of Russia. DEN liked his potential.

Amare. Has been developed under MDA since being drafted straight out of HS. We love Amare. We signed him to 100M with MDA as coach because of his offense. Not defense.

The ONLY reason why Melo is a Knick this year is because Gallo, Chandler & Felton ALL blew up under MDA.

Keep talking about "AR" while REFUSING to talk about SUCCESS of other players under MDA. Trash

Got it. I thought this thread was about defense. Tell me one player that blew up defensively under oantoni
 
Money this kid doesnt answer questions. I wouldnt be surprised if this is MOA's computer set to respond automatically when his name is typed. He spews the samething over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again...
 
Well, for one. I can only speak of what I've seen in the past.

1) Toney Douglas. I've watching TD23 since his days playing for my FSU team. Loved TD23. Toney was a great defensive Guard in college but he's improved his defensive game by leaps & bounds since the 2 years he's been under MDA. His offense also exploded.

2) Carmelo Anthony. He's doing something under MDA, that not even George Karl could force him to do; which is play consistent team defense. We all know Melo plays great defense during the playoffs, but he's never played regular season defense with heart like this. Some said Melo would never play defense under "O'Antoni''; those fans have been proven wrong.

3) Landy Fields. MDA has started Fields since game #2 as an unknown rookie. MDA seen his overall talents, potential & ability, and gave the rookie a chance to shine. Fields is one of our best perimeter defenders & he's only a rookie under MDA.

MDA is stressing team defense & it's showing. Great defense against Philly. Loved it.
 

Red

TYPE-A
Well, for one. I can only speak of what I've seen in the past.

1) Toney Douglas. I've watching TD23 since his days playing for my FSU team. Loved TD23. Toney was a great defensive Guard in college but he's improved his defensive game by leaps & bounds since the 2 years he's been under MDA. His offense also exploded.

2) Carmelo Anthony. He's doing something under MDA, that not even George Karl could force him to do; which is play consistent team defense. We all know Melo plays great defense during the playoffs, but he's never played regular season defense with heart like this. Some said Melo would never play defense under "O'Antoni''; those fans have been proven wrong.

3) Landy Fields. MDA has started Fields since game #2 as an unknown rookie. MDA seen his overall talents, potential & ability, and gave the rookie a chance to shine. Fields is one of our best perimeter defenders & he's only a rookie under MDA.

MDA is stressing team defense & it's showing. Great defense against Philly. Loved it.

Almost blowing a 19pt lead is hardly "great".

And let's not be naive, the team decided to play better defense due to the demands of everyone from the front office to media and fans, and most importantly the demands from our leaders Stat, Melo, and CB.

We can credit MDA for altering his approach and emphasizing better defense, but the motivation from him can be contributed to his feet being put to the fire, his job on the line, his moves being scrutinized, and his diminished importance to the team once super stars arrived.

But yeah, still some improvement is needed if we don't want to see blown surely won games going forward. We are gelling on O, must learn to close out the middle and get better position for boards.
 
His job was never on the line. He's the coach, that has coached NY to the playoffs for the 1st time in 7 years.

"job was on the line." No it wasn't. Stop believing your own little lies & show proof. Send us a link where NY's F-O, Walsh or Dolan made it known that "his job was on the line". You can't.

Since when was Amare a "defensive leader"? Never. Lets not credit Carmelo for the teams "defensive effort" either, because MDA's been talking & stressing the importance of team defense & effort all year. It's kind of hard to show production when you lack the pieces to do so. Melo was a huge piece

He's stated that offense isn't a problem; & that this team is focusing on NOTHING BUT DEFENSE from here on out. Behind closed doors? In practice? This team is practicing team defense because MDA's stressing it.

He's learned from his PHX mistakes. He understands defense was the reason why they never beat the Spurs. He's putting effort into coaching D & improving as an overall coach. He want's to win as bad as anyone.
 

TakMan

Rotation player
His job was never on the line. He's the coach, that has coached NY to the playoffs for the 1st time in 7 years.

"job was on the line." No it wasn't. Stop believing your own little lies & show proof. Send us a link where NY's F-O, Walsh or Dolan made it known that "his job was on the line". You can't.

Since when was Amare a "defensive leader"? Never. Lets not credit Carmelo for the teams "defensive effort" either, because MDA's been talking & stressing the importance of team defense & effort all year. It's kind of hard to show production when you lack the pieces to do so. Melo was a huge piece

He's stated that offense isn't a problem; & that this team is focusing on NOTHING BUT DEFENSE from here on out. Behind closed doors? In practice? This team is practicing team defense because MDA's stressing it.

He's learned from his PHX mistakes. He understands defense was the reason why they never beat the Spurs. He's putting effort into coaching D & improving as an overall coach. He want's to win as bad as anyone.

Right before you go on the offensive again, I think the previous post to yours is expressing an opinion. Neither you or anyone else can really know if D'Antoni's job was or even is on the line. What is said in public by management may be completely different to what is said behind closed doors. Regardless, let's work with your supposition that D'Antoni has recognised the need for a stronger defence as a result of his time at Phoenix. Why then does the team only show a defensive consistency following this recent 6 game losing streak?

You can argue about this being a new team all you like, however the fact remains that they demonstrated they could defend as early on as the Miami game. The pre-trade team (who played for over half a season together) also demonstrated sporadic moments of defensive quality, yet refused to apply that effort consistently (if anything they almost always refused to defend) I think a combination of things has contributed to a better defensive showing of late.

1. The acquisition of defence-first players (Jeffries, Carter, Shelden Williams)

2. Anthony's desire to prove to the Knicks fans and basketball commentators that the team has benefited from this trade. Remember this team was recently losing to the Cavs, the Pacers, and other losing teams- primarily due to their lack of defence- while the Nuggets were (and still are) consistently winning games. It's no surprise therefore that Anthony adapted his defensive approach which lifted the entire team.

3. Murmurs from the stands. I get up at 2-3 a.m where I am to watch Knicks games and I've recently had to turn the volume down all the way during the home games due to the fan's cries for defence reaching my gal's ears. She gets up early enough as it is to go to work therefore some respect is required; in the same way that D'Antoni was forced into addressing the growing cries for defence by the crowd, the various commentators, management no doubt, and the team's inability to beat shockingly bad teams.

4. Yes I partly feel that D'Antoni always held a (small) soft spot for defence. There is no other reason for him re-acquiring Jeffries, and instantly giving him minutes. He's also started playing defensive lineup at certain points of games which include Carter at PG, Douglas SG, Anthony/Walker SF, Jeffries PF, and Shelden/Turiaf at C. So yes he has started to put his money where his mouth is regarding defence.

In conclusion. To state that the team's improved defensive image is all about the coach, is probably as inaccurate as someone stating it has nothing to do with him.
 
I have more "proof" that his job was never on the line when compared to posters saying it was. They have no proof to backup their so called claims.

Dolan gave MDA a 4 year contract. If his job were ever on the line, he would have been fired a long time ago. Way before this year went under way. Dolan gave him 4 years, because everyone knew we had no chance of winning during our first two years under MDA & no one is expecting a championship this year. Next year is a different stroy. Thats his contract year. Dolan is not about to fire the coach & or GM that's turned this franchise around in LESS that 3 years. He was never about to "fire" the head coach that was leading (and now led) his franchise to the playoffs for the 1st time in 7 years. If MDA's job were ever "on the line this year" he would have been fired during our losing streak of 6 consecutive & 9 out of 10 overall. MDA, Walsh, Dolan & realistic fans all know we're still in rebuilding mode. This is not the final roster & it's not the finished product.
 

Red

TYPE-A
His job was never on the line. He's the coach, that has coached NY to the playoffs for the 1st time in 7 years.

"job was on the line." No it wasn't. Stop believing your own little lies & show proof. Send us a link where NY's F-O, Walsh or Dolan made it known that "his job was on the line". You can't.

Since when was Amare a "defensive leader"? Never. Lets not credit Carmelo for the teams "defensive effort" either, because MDA's been talking & stressing the importance of team defense & effort all year. It's kind of hard to show production when you lack the pieces to do so. Melo was a huge piece

He's stated that offense isn't a problem; & that this team is focusing on NOTHING BUT DEFENSE from here on out. Behind closed doors? In practice? This team is practicing team defense because MDA's stressing it.

He's learned from his PHX mistakes. He understands defense was the reason why they never beat the Spurs. He's putting effort into coaching D & improving as an overall coach. He want's to win as bad as anyone.

Oh' this is what you were referring to in the other thread.

Nah, you misunderstood, I was just saying let not make it a habit to have to hit 2 key 3's to solidify a win after a 19pt lead (as a team).

Coach definitly has shown a change in approach, I gotta give props for that, and its better late than never.

Why exactly is just my theory. Yeah we're playing better D though, good win, andan example of what having a finisher can do. Basically increases the margin for error.
 
Top