Carmelo and Amar'e Can Work

Cuckoo said:

I know how youre trying to make this team work with the current roster. But don't you think it's pathetic to pay 2 max contracts @40 mils/year and need a specialized PG to make them play together?

You can throw names but some are unrealistic:

Stephen Curry- under contract w/ Warriors and Knicks have nothing to offer in trade.

Eric Maynor- under contract OKC, why would they trade when they are perfectly fit to make chip runs? And who can we offer to make OKC a better team than they are now? (a trade is generally benefitial to both teams)

Deron Williams- We dont have 18 millions in cap space to sign him.

Nash- Can't sign him without giving up on Lin. He is worth at least 5-7 millions and Mavs or Nets (if Deron opt-out) will offer him at least that. Totally delusional if fans think Nash will take vets min.

If Dolan wants to keep Lin, he is gonna have to fight for him. If Deron opt outs his contract, I see his arch and cross-town rival Prokhorov offer him 4-year 36 millions just to make Dolan pay a hefty punitive luxury tax 3 years from now.

Lets face it. Knicks' window is 3 years! If they arent a chip contender now, they will not be a contender for the next 6-7 years. There are owners who want to win championships, and there are owners who only care about money. We all know who they are....

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-am-can-the-knicks-get-steve-nash-3

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Cuckoo said:

If you think Lin doesn?t have the ability to lead a team, maybe you need to look closely at who is in the lineup. His leadership was impeccable during Linsanity--everyone played better, even turned a scrub into the most dangerous offensive weapon in the league.

As long as the topic involves Melo, like many people here, I will sidestep out of your way?because most of your opinions defy logic.

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Cuckoo said:

If you think Lin doesn?t have the ability to lead a team, maybe you need to look closely at who is in the lineup. His leadership was impeccable during Linsanity--everyone played better, even turned a scrub into the most dangerous offensive weapon in the league.

As long as the topic involves Melo, like many people here, I will sidestep out of your way?because most of your opinions defy logic.

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CA7 said:

what player are you talking about

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Cuckoo said:

I meant to say in the team instead of in the league.

So you would rather have Maynor, a career second team, 15 min, 4.5 ppg, 3.1 apg, to lead the starters in Knicks and gell Stat and Melo?? Okeydokey......I am sold. No further debate necessary.

Why dont you look up at Febuary PPG for the following players:
- T Chandler
- J Jeffries
- S Novak
- Fields

They all had the best month PPG in Feb. Like I said, you defy logic and end of my reply in this thread.

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Red said:

When I hear about moving either Melo or STAT because they don't work together I think of...

1. The same excuses many used for why MDA's bunch wasn't working should be extended to this group. The haven't had ample time to get completely familiar with each other.

2. We need a PG as bad as we needed a big. This PG cannot be one of the "potential" variety, meaning he should be of the veteran variety. This is a team on offense without a facilitator. With a facilitator taking control of the O, our stars (who may have to sacrifice their games) will have direction and discipline. But acquiring this guard is next to impossible unless we find one willing to take less money- thats a long shot. They need a PG.

3. It seems like the media likes to add pressure to divide and conquer. We saw it with MIA. The media portrays high expectations devoid of taking into consideration the relative circumstances, as if new teammates should be thrown right in, take the court and dominate. This rarely happens. It takes time. Time to develop chemistry and that chemistry is furthered when a viable PG (ala Biilups or Kidd or Nash or Rondo-like) molds the offensive identity. Getting players to their spots, getting them the ball where they like it, and feeding the hot hands as a matter of priority. This as well as the ability to exploit options or make decisions so that STAT & Melo don't have to as much is paramount. This establishes the priorities, order of contingencies, and provides an order of operations to build on throughout. That way when the playoffs arrive, there are established steps to fall back on during difficult stretches.

4. What about the games where they both put up decent numbers? As few and far between as this may be, given the injury and timing circumstances along with the missing facilitator, STAT and Melo have put up good numbers as recently as game 4 of the Playoffs. And that was within a different system than the one the began with. Sure similar but not totally using the same approach as the former coach.

5. The real question is can they coexist on defense? STAT has poor fundamentals, Melo is streaky. Both want to avoid unnecessary fouls because they believe they are stars, which places priority on staying on the court, thus limiting their defensive intensity. I feel that with a facilitator and a bench, the need for the scoring to go through them all the time is reduced.
But the team and those two need to be reconditioned to believe that IF they are going to be leaders they must do it at both ends, and that we can score with or without them due to a good enough PG who can run the show. A defensive oriented PG (or SG) also reduces their likelihood of drawing too many fouls.

In conclusion, I think working together is relative. Give them a respectable PG, change their perceptions of their roles to emphasize defense as a priority, ignore outside pressure, and give it time and they could work. As limited as their body of work together is, we can point to times when they both produced.

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Cuckoo said:

(a trade is generally benefitial to both teams

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CA7 said:

I'm sick of hearing that these 2 Elite players cant work, it can work and here's why

Last Year together they averaged

Anthony- 26.3ppg and 6rpg(25 and 10 in the playoffs)
Stoudemire- 23.5ppg and 8rpg(injured most of series)

We had 2 stars who dominated offensively with Billups as a consistent 3rd option but we lacked interior defense, perimeter defense, consistent 3 point shooter, consistent 6th man and consistent coaching

Anthony/Stoudemire/Billups

Jeffries/Turiaf/Fields/Walker/Williams/Douglas

That team was horribly constructed with no true identity and ability to contend because we lacked depth

Chauncey Billups was the perfect point guard because he could get both Stoudemire and Anthony involved as well create for others, instead of just throwing the ball into Melo for an ISO, he directed the players where to go on the floor to create the right spacing for Melo to operate. When it was time to run the pick n roll with STAT, he directed Melo to the correct spot so when STAT rolled if Melo's guy helped he could get an open 3 which is why Melo shot 42% from 3, he was benefiting from STAT tearing teams up in the middle as well as STAT's FG% going up because Melo being there made teams double STAT less and Melo more

The Knicks problems last year lied within the role players, no Shumpert, no Chandler, no Novak, no Smith, no Harrellson

if the team was constructed this way

Billups/Lin/Douglas
Shumpert/Smith
Anthony/Novak/Fields
Stoudemire/Jeffries
Chandler/Harrellson/Jordan

more complete team, a true leader on offense in Billups and on defense in Chandler, 2 legit go to scorers in STAT and Melo with Billups setting up for both, a great perimeter defender in Shumpert, Jeffries a very versatile defender, Harrellson is a solid rebounder and can hit the jump shot, Fields thrives on the 2nd unit led by Lin/STAT/Novak, Novak is good for 2 3's a game and JR Smith is instant offense off the bench

This year from the start we lacked a PG who can make it work for both, Billups did but the Knicks lost because we lacked role players around our main guys. If we decline Billups option he still gets 4mil, we sign Chandler for the same deal, we re-sign Billups who has bird rights, still draft Shumpert and Harrellson, bring over Jordan, pick up Lin and Novak, fire D'Antoni anyway and add Woodson from the start then we are a more complete team with leaders on and off the court.

At the end of the day we need a point guard like Billups who changed Melo's whole game and made him a better team player, he's also a great leader who took over the locker room from jump street

Who can fill that void I'm not sure I'd love to make a play for one of these guys(in particular order)

Stephen Curry
Eric Maynor
Deron Williams
Steve Nash

all guys I feel can provide that true PG, versatile feel for our team. The one I really like is Eric Maynor, he's rotting behind Westbrook, well he's been hurt but nonetheless Westbrook got benched 1 game for Maynor who is more of a true PG his Ast/To ratio is 3-1 which is phenomenal and he has great size, strength and quickness and he demands the ball and controls pace

so there you have it, it took me a while to analyze why they both had great numbers together last year and what was the problem this year and thats it a true leader at Point Guard

so stop with the trade STAT, trade Melo, STAT and Melo are over paid and over hyped because every NBA player is over paid and over hyped if you wanna get technical.

if you wanna figure out a solution to this team find a point guard who can do what Chauncey Billups does and the Knicks will be in great shape to contend going forward

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• The player must re-sign with his prior team -- a team cannot include another team's free agent in a sign-and-trade.
• The player must finish the preceding season with that team (deals are no longer allowed that sign-and-trade players who are out of the league, such as the sign-and-trade that sent Keith Van Horn from Dallas to New Jersey as part of the Jason Kidd trade in 2008).
• The player cannot be a restricted free agent who has signed an offer sheet with another team (see question number 43).

Cuckoo said:

88. Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?

There is a rule that allows teams to re-sign their own free agents for trading purposes, called the sign-and-trade rule. Under this rule the player is re-signed and immediately traded to another team. This is done by adding a clause to the contract stipulating that the contract is null and void if the trade to the specific team is not completed within 48 hours. To qualify for a sign-and-trade, all of the following must be true:

• The player must re-sign with his prior team -- a team cannot include another team's free agent in a sign-and-trade.
• The player must finish the preceding season with that team (deals are no longer allowed that sign-and-trade players who are out of the league, such as the sign-and-trade that sent Keith Van Horn from Dallas to New Jersey as part of the Jason Kidd trade in 2008).
• The player cannot be a restricted free agent who has signed an offer sheet with another team (see question number 43).

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm

Nothing wrong with wishing, though its not Xmas. Even you can get Curry, he will be a FA next year!

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Of course, they can work together. They did that during one win against Miami. The question is whether they always will. :boohoo:

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CA7 said:

I wish you read what I wrote before you replied, I just like in depth answers rather than this open-ended responses which ruin conversation

but yeah they can and will we just need that missing piece

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