Offensive Genius?

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
I didn't say that. And you didn't answer my question.

In our wins against Chicago and Washington, what were the keys to victory? If you watched the games, you'll know.

Seriously. I get the whole time and gelling hoopla. I do. But what about the stand out lack of clarity in strategies we've seen in every game, except for the +40% 3P% games? There are parrots that can tell you 3 is more than 2.



NY - no Nash. No Nash in NY. Phoenix Nash. Nash plays in Phoenix. That was a stacked team of veterans, a young stud and an MVP. Peter Griffin would be successful with that crew. You're misguiding yourself with your own references. Phoenix comparisons mean literally nothing in NY in 2010. Nothing. The fact that NY are enquiring about Nash's availability is enough to ensure me that Mike is lost without him. That, and the last 2 seasons, as complete a bumbling debacle as I've ever seen, are no longer an excuse for sub par leadership.

Courtesy of CoolClyde.

"Biggest weakness: Stubborness can often alienate, confuse complimentary players" Is the man stuck in a mode? You referred to the ingredients in a cake, yes? MD is a selective eater. Like a panda or koala. One way, one ingredient and nothing more. Adjusting,, apparently is not an option.



What's not to grasp? Mike's mantra has, thus far, been based around shooting threes, cutting and the P&R. Comparatively, no post up plays for STAT, no isolations for Wilson to do what he does best, not a single P&R play for the Gov who sets great picks and rolls exceptionally well, no baseline screens for a 10-12 foot catch and shoot jumper/ the absence of a mid range game in any way, shape or form.. That, and less than a dozen picks have been set for Chandler. If I could be bothered, I'd go on. In fact, I think I will.

"D'Antoni is not perfect -- he stubbornly relies on a short rotation despite playing at a breathneck pace - but he's a brilliant offensive mind that understands the key to a good offense in this league is eschewing the mid-range jump shot."

Shunning the mid range game doesn't bring success!!!! That poop's so rotten it's steaming! Let's look at some of the decade's championship teams and their mid range contributors.

Detroit - Hamilton, Billups
LA - Kobe, Gasol
SA - Parker, Duncan
Boston - Pierce, Garnett

Any familiarity amongst that list of names?

Chandler, Felton, Douglas, Gallo and, with time, Randolph are all highly capable mid range converters. Chandler especially has a crisp baseline 15-20 footer. Gallo can drop them from anywhere. What form of deluded mind shuns an entire facet of offense and is considered an offensive genius?

You can't possibly agree with that sentiment? I can't see how anyone could.

In fact, I dedicated an entire thread to our success depending on spreading the floor with shots inside the 20 foot semi circle. Here it is. Please, check it out it'll save me the effort of typing more.http://www.knicksonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9146&highlight=feet

As I mentioned previously, I question whether or not you've watched any games? Because if you have, you would have seen Chandler's capabilities in full array during the pre-season and in our opening 3 games as a spot shooting/slashing threat. What happened to that? I'll ****ing tell you what happened.....It's more of Mike's unyielding, fractious 'my way' mindset.



No, not suddenly, not recently, but it did happen all of a sudden. On the day Shaquille O'Neal referred to himself as the Big Cactus. Shaq threw a spanner in Mike's fanny and now we have a team that isn't based on a one track MO as well.



Again. Have you been watching the games!? Have you seen the team crumble? Have you watched the 'SSOL' (which spells LOSS backwards) hand momentum to the other team? Our excellent first quarters (bar Philly)? Our players look they've had plenty of time on the court together. They're just not being coached to epitomise their strengths individually or as a unit/units.

There has been no encouragement from Mike, from what I've seen, in crucial stages of the 3rd and 4th quarters, to use the clock, draw fouls or set drawn out plays based around interior to perimeter passing to lull the defence in to mistakes as leads dwindle..... The green light is killing us. Again, where is the mid range threat? 3, 3, 3, 3, 3. Can't not mention missed layups though.

"D'Antoni preaches a low foul rate, sometimes at the expense of preventing points."

What sort of philosophical crud is that?




Thank you for making my own last point resoundingly clear in your own post! We have what we need to win on the roster. That's the most overt point I could possibly make. Getting your team to the best possible result requires an in depth perception of the players we have VS the motto Dantoni's created. Well, he didn't even create it! 'My way or the highway' is older than Donnie Walsh.

So yet again, I'll make my point, my perception, the premise of my disdain, whatever you want to call it, clear once again:

MD's ways are set in adamant and none shall suffice without doing so on the onus of his tenure in Phoenix.

He's fixated on past success, as the coach of a team locked in a tumultuous present. So with the past and present covered, the future is looking bleak with MD pressing the wrong buttons on a time worn modus operandi that depends on such focal components.

ie: Steve Nash

hate to be redundant but 3 point shooting is what will get us to be a consistent offensive team. that's how the system is played..

as i explained in my op, it is possible to shoot it consistently on a night to night basis.. phoenix proves that. they run the same system but there guys hit shots. nash has alot to do w that as he is a mistro at the ssol system.

felton could improve in a couple of areas:

1. consistently push the ball up the court and pass it aggressively up the court in transition.

2. break down the defense much more. get in there and cause havoc.

3. when getting in the paint be more patient. maintain your dribble at times, maybe take a little fade-away at others, shoot the runner, just be a threat and keep the defense guessing.

the team as a whole would benefit if felton took more control of the offense and was more like nash. we know he can't be nash, but he can be more nash-like more often.. this would help the offense greatly. it would also help the perimeter shooters. if the perimeter shooters start to click, then amare has more breathing room and so will the pick and roll.

this is how i think our offense can get better in a few different, important facets. as i stated above there are some things felton can do to be the pg this offense needs. he needs to be nash-like..


next, yes coach is in stuck mode. he has his offense and he's gonna go w it for better or worse. my belief is that we've seen it run great before and history tends to and can repeat itself. i think it can work here too. mike d can coach up pg's. he knows the position, as he was one (a great one in his own right) and has coached the position for a long time well. he did have alot to do w nash's development. that is undeniable. felton may not end up being what nash is, but i believe coach d can get him somewhere in the neighborhood. this would look like him being able to run the offense capably enough to where our shooters could breathe on the perimeter, there would be that crisp timing to the offense and the pick and roll would be effective. not too much to ask of mike d.. this is what he does. this is a new team w new players, a new point guard. simply put, it will take time.

also, mike d doesn't have a whole lot of options right now. these guys don't know how to run his offense competently enough yet. you crawl before yo can walk my dude. we start two rookies and we have a new point guard. out of the only three players that really know the system that start, only two of them have played together and that was only for a season and a handful of games. what do you expect dude.. if your as smart as you want everyone on here to think you are you should know this group of players needs time to develop an array of threatening plays that will work consistently. let felt get a feel for amare in the pick and roll. let some of the other little plays start to develop. let the guys get to know where each other will be in the myriad of instances throughout a game. let them develop chemistry. you can't rush it.. neither can i. it will take time, maybe a whole season.

again we run the ssol. this is the way we play. get over it. you're right about the mid range game being a great, viable weapon in the league tho .. can't deny that. but there happen to be different philosophies out there and mike d's is just one of them. again, it has worked in the past. it can work now.

mike d hasn't lost any of his coaching abilites.. your're overreacting to an under- gunned, inexperienced team that lacks chemistry at the moment. to me it's a waste of energy and time if you know what it takes to get good, ie time, ups and downs, etc. and, yes i've seen the third and forth quarter collaspes. they are symptomatic of a young inexperienced team learning to win. pretty simple.

And no, we don't have what we need to be the kind of team we all want. we have just enough to be a scrappy .500, or just under .500 team. it will take time and growing pains to grow into that tho, which we've seen over the last 9 games.
 

Paul1355

All Star
You have zero experience coaching basketball, so I'll take D'Antoni's moves over your non credible ass. Even if it fails, you're not qualified to speak on basketball decisions. So stop pretending like you are. Fool.

how can you back up Mike D? Hasn't he proved to you he can't coach due to his ignorance in thinking this team is the Suns?
 

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
The wheel on this bus goes round and round and round and round.

Jesus!!! Again with repetitive marathon. This is the last time I reply to a novel.

hate to be redundant but 3 point shooting is what will get us to be a consistent offensive team. that's how the system is played..

That's where 'the system' is failing. Epically.

as i explained in my op, it is possible to shoot it consistently on a night to night basis.. phoenix proves that. they run the same system but there guys hit shots. nash has alot to do w that as he is a mistro at the ssol system.

Hence the need for dramatic alterations. We are not the Suns. This is something you seem reluctant to take in.

felton could improve in a couple of areas:

1. consistently push the ball up the court and pass it aggressively up the court in transition.

2. break down the defense much more. get in there and cause havoc.

3. when getting in the paint be more patient. maintain your dribble at times, maybe take a little fade-away at others, shoot the runner, just be a threat and keep the defense guessing.

1. Agreed

2. Agreed

3. Agreed

the team as a whole would benefit if felton took more control of the offense and was more like nash. we know he can't be nash, but he can be more nash-like more often..

If that's your self deliberation, you're affirming that MD, his system, his reputation, have a Nash dependence. Transforming Felton in to Nash is not unlike turning lead in to gold. Stop it.

this would help the offense greatly. it would also help the perimeter shooters. if the perimeter shooters start to click, then amare has more breathing room and so will the pick and roll.

This comes down to priority: Prove the system works taking things day by day, click by click or pursuing the postseason. Pursuing it by finding cohesion within the components, not the system itself. Why is it so difficult to adjust?

Call me outlandish, but I'd prefer a postseason appearance. This team's quest for a top 8 seed began opening night.

this is how i think our offense can get better in a few different, important facets. as i stated above there are some things felton can do to be the pg this offense needs. he needs to be nash-like..

He needs to be Nash like because everything 'D'Antoni' is based around the MVP abilities of Nashty. Can I possibly be more Lamen in my terminology? Am I wasting my time repeating as you repeat?


next, yes coach is in stuck mode. he has his offense and he's gonna go w it for better or worse.

So far, it's been for worse. The fact that there've been ZERO calibrations to a non-cohesive team makes me nauseas. Defend it if you want, but it's festering. If it 'aint broke, don't fix it. If it is broken, ****ing do something about it and give the dead horse a rest

my belief is that we've seen it run great before and history tends to and can repeat itself
.

That's purely speculative in any situation. A counter speculation is that if MD were to coach another team after the Knicks, that his ardent love for the 3 ball would be the demise of said team's record as well! Hence history repeating itself.

i think it can work here too. mike d can coach up pg's. he knows the position, as he was one (a great one in his own right) and has coached the position for a long time well. he did have alot to do w nash's development. that is undeniable. felton may not end up being what nash is, but i believe coach d can get him somewhere in the neighborhood. this would look like him being able to run the offense capably enough to where our shooters could breathe on the perimeter, there would be that crisp timing to the offense and the pick and roll would be effective. not too much to ask of mike d.. this is what he does.

Again with the need for Nash! I think I'll refer to it from here on as: The Nashessity of solving the SSOL conundrum. I like that!

this is a new team w new players, a new point guard. simply put, it will take time.

As with Mike, you too seem completely comfortable with ignoring alternate ideas. 'It has to be done this way, or not at all'. Ludicrous! Does Felton need to be Nash? Or does Felton need to be utilised as best as possible? You can only cook with what's in your cupboard.

F.I.N

Felton isn't Nash.

N.I.P

New York isn't Phoenix. And it doesn't have to be.

also, mike d doesn't have a whole lot of options right now. these guys don't know how to run his offense competently enough yet. you crawl before yo can walk my dude. we start two rookies and we have a new point guard. out of the only three players that really know the system that start, only two of them have played together and that was only for a season and a handful of games.

Crawl before you walk? What about the famous idiom - 'to be thrown in the deep end'? It's up to Mike to make the best of what isn't even a bad situation. But, as always, we come in to critical moments of a tight game in the 4th, fresh out of a designed play, and are presented with shit the likes of @ Denver. Passing the ball to the corner 3 spot? Please enlighten me if that's not a shit idea.


if your as smart as you want everyone on here to think you are

'C' is for c#nt! Unnecessary.


you should know this group of players needs time to develop an array of threatening plays that will work consistently. let felt get a feel for amare in the pick and roll. let some of the other little plays start to develop. let the guys get to know where each other will be in the myriad of instances throughout a game. let them develop chemistry. you can't rush it.. neither can i. it will take time, maybe a whole season.

I agree with you. But a whole season? These guys are pros. Myriad of instances? Doesn't the team with the ball dictate each instance? Are 10-15 fundamental set plays too few? Perhaps they are? Because 30 plays a night, someone's bricking another f'ing 3. We have taken a collective 177 more threes than our opponents combined this year. 177!!! Chandler has taken 56 and made 17, Gallo has taken 59 and hit 18, TD has taken 55 and made 15, Felton has taken 47 and made 18. Does that have a single thing to do with chemistry? No! It ****ing well doesn't! It's blatant misguidance.

Twice the Knicks have made 40% or more of their 3s in a single match, resulting in 2 wins. Math so difficult for me. Me take nap now.

Toronto was a gimme win. Don't even go there.

again we run the ssol. this is the way we play. get over it.

This is the way we've lost our games. Admit it.

mike d hasn't lost any of his coaching abilites.. your're overreacting to an under- gunned, inexperienced team that lacks chemistry at the moment. to me it's a waste of energy and time if you know what it takes to get good, ie time, ups and downs, etc. and, yes i've seen the third and forth quarter collaspes. they are symptomatic of a young inexperienced team learning to win. pretty simple.

Pretty simple!? Really? Is floundering as simple as maintaining a lead fundamentally? The premise of using the clock with ball movement when in the lead.

Have you ever played organised basketball? Do I have to repeat myself constantly, as you do? Are you made of vinyl?

And no, we don't have what we need to be the kind of team we all want. we have just enough to be a scrappy .500, or just under .500 team. it will take time and growing pains to grow into that tho, which we've seen over the last 9 games.

We absolutely have enough to be a scrappy .500 team. That's all the majority of posters here ever wanted out of this year. With every SSOL 3 point disaster, that likelihood falls further away. And nobody's doing a thing to rectify the debacle.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. The verdict will be out in one month. Until then, this system is heinous - I don't know why you defend it as it festers in front of you - please, as I mentioned before, don't reply at such length. If you do, try not to say the precise same things in separate forms.

:alert:Booooooorrrriiiiiinnnnnngggg.:alert:
 

moneyg

Starter
You have zero experience coaching basketball, so I'll take D'Antoni's moves over your non credible ass. Even if it fails, you're not qualified to speak on basketball decisions. So stop pretending like you are. Fool.


oh and u do.. the fact of the matter is you dont know if i ever coahed on any level.. ur just assuming..... which makes u the first three letters of the word..

wipe gallo's and O'antonis manhood off ya face my dude...

CLOWNS
 

Red

TYPE-A
Some guys need a girl to disrespect them 20 times before they realize what's going on...

and some see it in 1 conversation.

It's just a learning curve. Some are ahead of it... and some lag behind.

I have faith that at the end of the day we will agree this isn't right.

Good Post Crazy8. Damn, you went in.
 

metrocard

Legend
You know, I bet you've never even played basketball. Have you? You're too small and too arrogant to be shown up. No doubt you lack the coordination to play a little man's role, so you played baseball or something the likes of that.

Am I right?

You've never had any credibility. You're just not clever enough. Small man, small brain, smaller chance.

Arrogant? Nah. Thats what a hater would say. Confident? Yes.

Little man? You can't even preform 30 proper push ups. You anatomy is weak and your physiology is inferior.

You play zero sports...you look like you blast Justin Bieber cd's and shake your frail weak blonde booty. Probably the least athletic guy in this forum. Prove me wrong, slut.

btw, you're talking to someone who's training for a professional boxer career with a credible high school wrestling career and played D2 baseball in college. Soccer is my hobby on the side. You're clown :lol:

Keep hating.
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
me: felton could improve in a couple of areas:

1. consistently push the ball up the court and pass it aggressively up the court in transition.

2. break down the defense much more. get in there and cause havoc.

3. when getting in the paint be more patient. maintain your dribble at times, maybe take a little fade-away at others, shoot the runner, just be a threat and keep the defense guessing.

crazy8's:

1. Agreed

2. Agreed

3. Agreed

First of all how can you sit there and agree w all of the above areas felt needs to improve, but then also say he doesn't need to be nash-like?? all of those above areas are areas that nash excels in.. by agreeing your in-effect confirming that felt needs to be more nash-like.

me: the team as a whole would benefit if felton took more control of the offense and was more like nash. we know he can't be nash, but he can be more nash-like more often..

crazy8's: If that's your self deliberation, you're affirming that MD, his system, his reputation, have a Nash dependence. Transforming Felton in to Nash is not unlike turning lead in to gold. Stop it.

no, md's system id not nash dependent, but it is PG dependent. if felt took more control over the offense and did more things like nash does, or any really good pg does, we would be better off as a team. perty simple sir..
 

ronoranina

Fundamentally Sound
me: again we run the ssol. this is the way we play. get over it.

craz8's: This is the way we've lost our games. Admit it.

obviously we have different perceptions of the team... no sense in continuing to go round & round.

but i will say one last thing...

you think we lose because of the system itself and our coach who promulgates it. this is a flawed assessment when you honestly look at all of the factors playing into the losses, which i and others on this forum have highlighted ad nauseum.

where we differ is that i think it is not the system but the players who run the system who don't have the experience in it and the skills currently to run it properly.

again, they can get better at running it, but it will take time.
:thumbsup:
 

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
Arrogant? Nah. Thats what a hater would say. Confident? Yes.

Little man? You can't even preform 30 proper push ups. You anatomy is weak and your physiology is inferior.

You play zero sports...you look like you blast Justin Bieber cd's and shake your frail weak blonde booty. Probably the least athletic guy in this forum. Prove me wrong, slut.

btw, you're talking to someone who's training for a professional boxer career with a credible high school wrestling career and played D2 baseball in college. Soccer is my hobby on the side. You're clown :lol:

Keep hating.

and played D2 baseball in college
.

Everything about you is D2. And nobody cares about what little men achieve. You're another, what, 5.7" loudmouth? Whatever little men do, bigger men do better. You're obsessed with your inferiority, so, you box - against little men - you wrestle - against little men - you play D2 baseball - where size means nothing and you swagger about it. That's why you never played hoops, because you're a faggy dweeb.:lol:

You're a tiny fish in an enormous pond, and you stay away from the big fish because you can't compete with them.

The only success you'd have in sports outside of your weight class would be in dwarf throwing.

Poodles can't be pit-bulls in the real world, but for some reason, it's always the little dogs that bark the most.

Yawn.
 

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
]me: felton could improve in a couple of areas:

1. consistently push the ball up the court and pass it aggressively up the court in transition.

2. break down the defense much more. get in there and cause havoc.

3. when getting in the paint be more patient. maintain your dribble at times, maybe take a little fade-away at others, shoot the runner, just be a threat and keep the defense guessing.

crazy8's:

1. Agreed

2. Agreed

3. Agreed

First of all how can you sit there and agree w all of the above areas felt needs to improve, but then also say he doesn't need to be nash-like?? all of those above areas are areas that nash excels in.. by agreeing your in-effect confirming that felt needs to be more nash-like.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that THIS team can run P&Rs with Fields, Chandler and Gallo as well. Again、alternate options/obvious truth. If the team doesn't match the system, then change the system.

No more monotonous TOs on plays we don't NEED to be successful. I mean, you saw Felton tonight right? He played HIS game, not Nash's, and was successful for us.

no, md's system id not nash dependent, but it is PG dependent. if felt took more control over the offense and did more things like nash does, or any really good pg does, we would be better off as a team. perty simple sir.. [/QUOTE]

No 'I' in team? A PG shouldn't be the be all and end all of an offense. Floor General is the term, but there are other facilitators on our team - Fields and Gallo are playing well off picks. And that, in Gallo's case tonight, was the defining factor in our win.

Tonight, we threw half as many 3s - reliant part of the system - we set picks for our wings - not so much a part of the system if compared with the P&R hoopla - we set plays for STAT within 10 feet of the basket 3 times - about time - and, most importantly IMO, we drove the lane and made 10-15 foot jumpers.

If anything, we played a different game tonight. The handoff pick pass was our go to tonight. Penetrating, running shots were big for us as well.

Would you agree that we played a different game tonight? Played outside of 'the system'

'Cause that's what I saw.
:shrug:
 
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