Kristaps Porzingis? latest winter slumber should terrify Knicks

Paul1355

All Star
Nice analysis of KAT. So far the better player, he's been criticized for his D this year but overall has been a more impactful player imo. Would have been nice if the Porzingod we saw the first 10 or so games played in last 35 but he came back to earth. He hasn't his upside and we're going to see a leap in his play, still think he can become a better 3 pt shooter and he can develop a post game.

If KP can bulk up and start playing center his value will sky rocket


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If KP can bulk up and start playing center his value will sky rocket


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would take KAT too, but in hindsight one must be reminded of the simple fact that KP wasnt given the greenlight his first two seasons like KAT did.

one of the hardest things to get comfortable with in the NBA is being "the man"

KAT instantly was given open sesame by coaches and teammates alike to chuck at will make mistakes at will and learn through trial and error.

Porzingas unfortunately had to overcome several coaching changes, GM nonsense, MELO drama, D Rose Drama and all of this while getting used to being in the united states and NYC which results an immense pressure every night you step on the floor.

Minnesota fans are not NY fans so the microscope fails in comparison.

I liken it to the Eli manning/ Phillip Rivers debate

I would argue Phillip Rivers is the better quarterback, but its hard to deny what Eli has done based solely on the fact that he did it in NY.

while Superstars over the years have been scared away of the knicks and the spotlight, Porzingas put this ish on his back and carried it while also proving he can take over games on both ends of the floor.

in summation, I think we are seeing a season of catch up for porzingas, catch up on being the focal point, catch up on having a healthy locker room and catch up on being groomed to be the go to player on a basketball team expected to win by its fans, every single night they go out on the court.

all of those facets are things that KAT hasnt had to deal with at all since he came into the league.
 
DFDH and Paul if you had a do over in that draft would you draft KAT or KP?

I'm a fan of Porzingis as evidenced by my sig and avatar but anyone can be criticized, it's up to him to prove his critics wrong. All Star game is coming up, lets see if the fans, players and recognize him and vote him on the team. The Knicks make a playoffs lets see if he comes up big like the Brow did in his one playoff appearance.

Where have you guys been btw, you both make infrequent appearances, I'm guessing you're involved with another website like Coolclyde is on Facebook.


Nah not with cool clyde on facebook.

Not even on facebook.

I just lost touch with the habitual nature that came with posting regularly here.

I honestly stopped watching games after a while, married, work, etc.

Found myself frustrated adding up the wasted hours off of my lifespan that would accumulate throughout a tragic knick season.

DVR has helped as well, I can fast forward through blow outs to see if we can make a come back in order to not waste time.

Still a die hard true knicks fan, just do not have the time to watch us lose like I used to.
 
Interesting information about KP from this story about the All-Star voting:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/...u-need-to-know-from-the-weird-voting-results/:

[h=3]Fans love Embiid ... players, not so much[/h]Sixers center Joel Embiid was selected as a starter, but it was largely due to the fan vote. The players actually voted Kristaps Porzingis ahead of Embiid to be a starter. It could be because Embiid has played in 31 games while Porzingis has played in 39, but you'd have to think that Embiid's constant Twitter trolling of various NBA players might have led to his lack of popularity. Either way, Embiid will be a starter and Porzingis will likely be selected as a reserve.
 

tiger0330

Legend
Interesting 538 article on KP shot selection. Seems KP quality of shot rating has fallen to 4 this season from 71 last season, article states he's become the Knicks new Melo taking contested mid-range jumpers like Melo. They also mention he has the most success when he shoots the ball within 2 seconds of a catch and in transition. Kind of counter to my theory about him that he should be taking shots closer to the basket and saving those 3 pt attempts for when the Knicks need them to come back from behind. Maybe a 7'3" 40% 3pt shooter that protects the rim is what he should be.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...is-doing-his-best-carmelo-anthony-impression/

Kristaps Porzingis has dramatically increased his volume of low-quality shots.

Jim McIsaac / Getty Images

When the Knicks finally traded Carmelo Anthony last offseason, both he and the organization itself viewed it as an opportunity to get out from under a cloud. With the Oklahoma City deal, Melo joined a contending team that already had two All-Stars and left the club that fumbled his prime — one that then gladly handed the keys to the franchise to 22-year-old Kristaps Porzingis.

For awhile, that experiment was going swimmingly. Porzingis averaged 30 points per contest through his first 11 outings of the season, a highly impressive, if clearly unsustainable, rate. Yet that hot start to the campaign probably camouflaged something that's come into clearer focus as both the big man and his team have cooled down: For all the trouble New York went through to move on from Anthony and his ball-dominant tendencies, Porzingis launches many of the same heavily contested shots that prompted so much head-scratching and frustration among Knicks fans.

https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/badshots.mp4

Going into the Knicks' nationally televised game in Utah Friday, Porzingis has taken far more heavily contested jumpshots than any other NBA player this season. The majority of those attempts come from the antiquated midrange part of the floor, where New York continues to take more shots than any other team despite the firing of team president Phil Jackson, who insisted on using an unpopular triangle offense. Porzingis takes more than seven shots a game from midrange, the NBA's second-highest mark; more than Anthony, who considers that area his sweet spot. Perhaps most eye-opening of all: according to Second Spectrum data, Porzingis is tied for the league's fourth-lowest1 quantified Shot Quality (qSQ), which measures the likelihood of a shot going in if taken by an average player. To put that into context, last season, Porzingis ranked 71st-lowest in the NBA by this measure, while Anthony had the NBA's fourth-lowest shot quality profile during 2016-17.

In other words: Kristaps Porzingis's shot selection has essentially morphed into Carmelo Anthony's.

Porzingis has vaulted up the bad-shot leaderboard

Lowest-ranked players in quantified Shot Quality (qSQ) in 2017-18 and how those players ranked a year ago

2017-18

2016-17

Player

Shot Quality

Rank (lowest)

Shot Quality

Rank (lowest)

DeMar DeRozan

43.8%

1

42.2%

1

Jamal Crawford

43.9

2

43.5

2

Jarrett Jack*

44.8

3

-

-

Kristaps Porzingis

45.6

4

48.8

71

Devin Booker

45.6

5

46.0

12

* No rank for 2016-17 due to injury

qSQ measures the likelihood of a shot going in if taken by an average player; minimum 300 shots.

Source: Second Spectrum

"The stars in this league take tougher shots because defenses are focused on them. He's 22, he's going through that for the first time, and teams are gearing up on him, and not letting him spin or get a clear opportunity to pass the ball," Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek told me before a recent game.

Without Anthony to worry about, defenses have aggressively seized on Porzingis. A little more than halfway through the season, he's already been double-teamed in the post 79 times (about twice a game), the fourth-highest total in the NBA and more than he faced during his first two seasons combined, according to Second Spectrum. This effectively is a way of daring him to make a quick, accurate pass to the right man — which is not his strength.

https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/passes.mp4

Porzingis turns the ball over nearly twice as often as he records an assist, and averages fewer assists per game than any of the other players who rank among the NBA's top 10 in post-ups. If opponents don't double him, they will often crowd him on the catch, force him to put the ball on the floor, and bring a help defender so he's forced to see two bodies.

https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/kpreel.mp4

The latter strategy, in particular, has worked well since Porzingis still lacks the physicality he needs to push some defenders — even small guards, who give up 6 or 7 inches — off their square.

In theory, you could argue that Porzingis is better equipped to take the sorts of shots Anthony did because of how much taller he is, giving him clearer looks at the basket. But despite being the NBA's tallest player,2 Porzingis's midrange jumpers have been blocked more often than anyone else in the league. (Anthony is tied for third.) The budding star has an unusually low average release point of just over 9 feet on his midrange attempts, the third-lowest among the league's 46 volume shooters,3 according to an analysis run by senior data analyst Matt Scott of STATS SportVU at FiveThirtyEight's request.

Porzingis is the first to acknowledge that he began rushing his offense too much after the blistering pace he set to begin the season. "I think now I'm starting to realize it doesn't need to be that way," he told ESPN's Ian Begley. "I can just let the game flow and see what happens. I can make the right play and not force and try to get those numbers."

No one would be foolish enough to write off Porzingis at this juncture, for his Melo-like shot selection or any other reason. This is his first year as the primary option — he wasn't even the second banana last season, when both Anthony and Derrick Rose averaged more shot attempts per game — and aside from Tim Hardaway, Jr.,4 he has no other teammate that qualifies as a true playmaker. He plays within the offense more than Anthony did. (Almost two-thirds of Porzingis's 2-point baskets are assisted, while just under a third of Anthony's 2-pointers in New York were.) And Porzingis provides enormous value as a rim protector, even when he's not doing well on offense.

Similar to Anthony, Porzingis can be lethal when teammates get him the ball in scenarios that allow him to make quick decisions off the catch. Hornacek's best weapon to do that — playing Porzingis at center as part of a five-out lineup — deserves more spin, and would help things flow a bit more. Outside of that, the Knicks have been good at setting up these looks in transition, when Porzingis is trailing a play and can simply square up to shoot from the top of the key. Porzingis posts a whopping 56.7 percent effective field-goal rate when he shoots within two seconds of getting the ball, a rate that puts him in the same stratosphere as Kevin Durant or Anthony Davis as far as efficiency is concerned. But he becomes the equivalent of one of the two or three worst shooters in basketball, around 40 percent, when he attempts a shot after holding it for any more than two seconds. (More evidence of this: his 0.73 points per possession in one-on-one situations rank last among the 33 NBA players who isolate at least twice a game.5)

New York's made an effort to run plays for Porzingis — they run about 19 off-ball screens for him per 100 possessions, according to Second Spectrum, up from 10 last year — though it doesn't always result in a touch, because of all the defensive attention he's facing. "Even if I'm not open, it means someone else is open," Porzingis said. "When we're in movement, those are good plays for us."

This maturation process — figuring out how to create separation when defenses load up on a single player — was the one Anthony spent the most time helping Porzingis with early in his career.

The pair often played one-on-one at practice, and every couple minutes, Porzingis would stop the game to ask Anthony for advice with certain moves. "[Working with him] has been fun," Anthony told me back in 2015. "For me, it's knowing that one day I'll be gone, and somebody else will be here. And he's the future."

For New York's future to be brighter than its cloudy past, they'll need Porzingis to navigate this stretch and learn how to find better shots than the ones Anthony feasted on as a Knick.
 
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Paul1355

All Star
I would take KAT too, but in hindsight one must be reminded of the simple fact that KP wasnt given the greenlight his first two seasons like KAT did.

one of the hardest things to get comfortable with in the NBA is being "the man"

KAT instantly was given open sesame by coaches and teammates alike to chuck at will make mistakes at will and learn through trial and error.

Porzingas unfortunately had to overcome several coaching changes, GM nonsense, MELO drama, D Rose Drama and all of this while getting used to being in the united states and NYC which results an immense pressure every night you step on the floor.

Minnesota fans are not NY fans so the microscope fails in comparison.

I liken it to the Eli manning/ Phillip Rivers debate

I would argue Phillip Rivers is the better quarterback, but its hard to deny what Eli has done based solely on the fact that he did it in NY.

while Superstars over the years have been scared away of the knicks and the spotlight, Porzingas put this ish on his back and carried it while also proving he can take over games on both ends of the floor.

in summation, I think we are seeing a season of catch up for porzingas, catch up on being the focal point, catch up on having a healthy locker room and catch up on being groomed to be the go to player on a basketball team expected to win by its fans, every single night they go out on the court.

all of those facets are things that KAT hasnt had to deal with at all since he came into the league.

Another perspective is that KP had time to grow by not having all the double teams and not having the microscope on him when they lost because Melo got all the blame.

Now KP?s inefficiencies are really being seen and he has more pressure than before obviously with being in NY and Melo leaving. This leads to what we see which is him throwing up more bad shots and rushing his shots which even he admitted multiple times. He gets double teamed and doesnt pass..he will either try to move out of a double team and shoot or have the ball snatched from him in embarrassing fashion.

One scout I read said Kp is easy to play defense against because he is a bad passer and rarely passes at all. So when you double team him you have a good chance of forcing a bad shot or turnover. When Kp learns to consistently pass out of double teams then he will help create a fluid offense of chemistry because one guy will always be open.

As long as he plays like Carmelo he will only be as good as Melo and be an iso dominate player that doesn?t really help the team like they could.


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Broadway

All Star
Interesting information about KP from this story about the All-Star voting:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/...u-need-to-know-from-the-weird-voting-results/:

Fans love Embiid ... players, not so much

Sixers center Joel Embiid was selected as a starter, but it was largely due to the fan vote. The players actually voted Kristaps Porzingis ahead of Embiid to be a starter. It could be because Embiid has played in 31 games while Porzingis has played in 39, but you'd have to think that Embiid's constant Twitter trolling of various NBA players might have led to his lack of popularity. Either way, Embiid will be a starter and Porzingis will likely be selected as a reserve.


The players probably don't like Embiid because he talks too much while doing them dirty
 
The players probably don't like Embiid because he talks too much while doing them dirty

Yeah, but they seem to like KP. All we need is one sucker to sign with us in free agency to come play with KP and if it is the right guy, we could be in a much better position a couple years from now. I always felt no one really wanted to play with Melo.
 

Broadway

All Star
Yeah, but they seem to like KP. All we need is one sucker to sign with us in free agency to come play with KP and if it is the right guy, we could be in a much better position a couple years from now. I always felt no one really wanted to play with Melo.

I do think players like #kporzee but they also liked Melo, he was immensely popular across the league player wise(still is). We are potenitally 2yrs away from adding a significant piece but that would mean we do absolutely nothing over those 2yrs

We have no cap space next 2yrs. Early projections have the cap jumping to $104mil next yr, we're $95mil committed if Kanter/Baker/O'Quinn opt in. This doesn't include salary for drafts picks and empty roster spot cap holds...No Beasley, No McDermott, and No Burke. We'd almost have to repeat this the following yr because #kporzee is coming with a $27-31mil cap hit (maybe higher if he makes the All-Star/All NBA Team) on new extension deal unless we rid ourselves of any combination Kanter/THJR/Lee and hopefully stretch and/or trade(improbable) Noah

Which brings us back to...all roads lead to the draft, then maybe we need to get another youngan who'll make himself popular across the league to attract a sucker
 

Paul1355

All Star
Nice analysis of KAT. So far the better player, he's been criticized for his D this year but overall has been a more impactful player imo. Would have been nice if the Porzingod we saw the first 10 or so games played in last 35 but he came back to earth. We haven't seen his upside and we're going to see a leap in his play someday, still think he can become a better 3 pt shooter and he can develop a post game.

Kp needs consistent point guard play, this same issue plagued Melo in NY...made them
Force up bad shots in bad positions because PGs couldn?t break down a defense and get them in good position.


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mafra

Legend
Great point. I?m sure if KP had Teague, Butler, Wiggins and coach Thibbs.... well, KP would be racking up wins too.
 
What I am trying to say, is you can analyze KP down to how his over grown left pinky toenail causes him to miss turn around jumpers when on the left side of the floor.

It doesnt attribute to what is happening to this team as a whole.

now if we are tanking, fine then we are tanking; but I do not think we are purposely trying to lose games.

I believe Jeff hornacek is a horrible horrible coach.

HE HAS TO STOP BENCHING THE ENTIRE STARTING LINE UP AT ONE TIME.


I am sick and tired of this crap.



Its like the B squad in middle school basketball subbing for the whole second quarter.

Guys cant get into a flow.

you got 3 point guards playing random minutes with random lineups

one minute you want beasley on the floor with KP the next you got kanter and hernangomez on the floor together with mcdermott and lance thomas.

then you throw frank back in the game and bench him for burke after one missed jumper.

Frank
Lee
Hardaway
Porzingas
Kanter

Bench

Jack
Beasley
Oquinn
Mcdermott


That is it

9 man rotation

stop with the random spot minutes for Luke Sky walker ( aka Ron Butler )

Bury Lance Thomas permanently on the bench.

and use hernangomez as a filler for dudes in foul trouble.

stagger hardaway and porzingas so that one of them is on the floor as much as much as you can.

and START frank already.

its ridiculous.

I dont mind Jack, and I dont even love frank.

but if you are going to continue to bottom out game after game you cant herk and jerk frank every quarter.

players do not know when they are gonna play who they are gonna play with and it causes inconsistency.
 

mafra

Legend
He?s on the threshold of greatness, but you got to go against the Warriors, man,? Frazier said on the Warriors pregame show on 95.7 The Game in the Bay Area. ?We?ve played against some elite teams this year, and he hasn?t been ready to play.

?You can?t be injured against those type of teams. Like [Tuesday night] the team needs him,? Frazier said before the Knicks? 123-112 loss. ?You?re an All-Star, you?ve just been voted to the All-Star team, man, come on, go out and show the Warriors why.?
 
He?s on the threshold of greatness, but you got to go against the Warriors, man,? Frazier said on the Warriors pregame show on 95.7 The Game in the Bay Area. ?We?ve played against some elite teams this year, and he hasn?t been ready to play.

?You can?t be injured against those type of teams. Like [Tuesday night] the team needs him,? Frazier said before the Knicks? 123-112 loss. ?You?re an All-Star, you?ve just been voted to the All-Star team, man, come on, go out and show the Warriors why.?


Clyde is probably the most cerebral basketball mind to never coach a game in his life.

I always wondered why he never coached; maybe he is so relaxed it didnt matter.

his intellect in terms of how to play the game the right way and when to pick your spots is unbelievable.

Not sure if any of you watched full games of him playing; no one was better at pacing, positioning, perfect timing and recognizing when to make the right decisions on the court.

all time under rated top pg of all time.

hes up there with the best of them and no one ever says a word about it.
 

mafra

Legend
I have 2 McFarland figures hanging in my shed: John Elway and Walt Frazier.

I was born in 1974, so unfortunately I never got to watch (arguably) the greatest team ever assembled. I can?t even imagine how fun it must?ve been....

I think GSW probably the closest thing, in terms of a team who passes and has great guards. But, GSW don?t have a Willis Reed. I can only imagine what Willis would?ve done to Dray Green, or to watch Walt and Monroe match Klay and Curry, then to see Dave D and Ivy Leaguer Bradley running amock as Kerr calls for a TO.

I mean, does it get any better than that?
 

mafra

Legend
The all-time club of NBA players who stand 7-3 or taller runs 25 deep.

But what does it really mean to stand at that height in a league trending small?

Let's begin with the basics. As the unquestioned top dog in New York, Porzingis is averaging a shade under 19 shot attempts per game for the Knicks, which would be the most ever by a player his size. In fact, prior to Porzingis, the only players 7-3 or taller to average 15 field goal attempts per game were Ralph Sampson and Yao Ming, skilled giants who would have no doubt developed killer outside strokes if they came into the league today.

Of course, standing tall has its advantages in shooting over defenders when stretching a defense. It's what gives Porzingis an edge over his supersized predecessors who didn't venture too far outside the forest. Sampson hit 17 percent of his 58 career 3s. Just 6 percent of Yao's total attempts came outside of 16 feet, according to Basketball-Reference.com.

No other player taller than 7-3 has ever averaged two or more 3-point attempts per game, something Porzingis has done in each of his three seasons. He's taking nearly three more 3s per game than the 1.9 by Arvydas Sabonis in 1996-97, the previous most by a player his size. Porzingis already has canned more 3s than every other player 7-3 or taller combined, surpassing that total in his 156th career game.

It's this combination of sheer size and high volume that creates the unique advantage shared by no other player in the league.
 
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