The Fire Fizdale Watch Thread

tiger0330

Legend
It?s inevitable if the Knicks don?t turn this around and start winning games. Fizdale and now Morris are attributing the Knicks awful start to all the new guys and the need to build chemistry and MM is defending Fizdale by saying Fizdale is putting them in the best position to win. All Morris and Fizdale say maybe true but we have to start seeing wins as the season progresses or Fizdale maybe gone before the season ends, I don?t see Mills and Perry spending 70M on players and winding up with the worst record in the NBA and not blaming Fizdale.

Tommy Beers take on Fizdale so far in the season.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2019/10/27/the-knicks-2019-20-season-is-off-to-a-horrendous-start-and-head-coach-david-fizdale-has-to-shoulder-some-of-the-blame/#25176a033b6


Back in July of 2018, shortly after he was hired to coach the Knicks and before he held his first official practice, David Fizdale avowed that all playing time in New York would be earned. Nothing was guaranteed. "I'm going to let them clash over it," the coach said in Las Vegas when asked about minutes allotted to individual players. "I don't want to guarantee anybody anything because it totally contradicts the culture. Everything is about, 'You keep what you kill.'"


"Roll that ball out and whoever takes the spot, takes the spot," he said.

Fizdale again echoed very similar sentiments at the start of the training camp this year. The Knicks brought in a bunch of veterans this offseason to compete for playing time, and Fiz promised only those players that earned minutes would see the floor.

Well, through a rough 1-3 preseason and three consecutive losses to open the regular season, some fans feel those soundbites ring a bit hollow.

Specifically, the curious case of Dennis Smith Jr. has drawn the ire of New Yorkers. Smith came into camp purportedly in great shape, ready to finally put it all together, making the most of his undeniable potential and dynamic athleticism. However, DSJ tweaked his back in practice on October 5th. This was concerning, considering Smith was sidelined for ten of the Knicks final 14 games in 2018-19 due to lingering lower back soreness.


Smith ended up missing New York's first two preseason contests, but started each of the final two. Still, he looked a step slow and struggled with his shot, converting just 17.6% of his FG attempts in those two starts. Smith came off the bench in the season-opener in San Antonio. He was the first sub into the game, checking in for Allonzo Trier six minutes into the first quarter.

Smith made his first shot of the season, a driving layup. It's been all downhill from there. DSJ has taken ten shots since that first bucket, and missed every single one of them. Unsurprisingly, he's been a sieve defensively as well.


New York is allowing a whopping 119 points per 100 possessions in the 26 minutes Smith has been on the court this season. And, somehow, the analytics are even worse on the other end of the floor. The Knicks are scoring just 74.1 points per 100 possessions with DSJ on the court. That's a mind-bogglingly rotten Net Rating of -44.8, for those keeping score at home.

It was clear that Smith needed to be benched Friday night in Brooklyn. He missed four shots in four minutes. Things hit what NY hopes is rock bottom Saturday night in the Knicks home opener. Smith missed all three of his FG attempts while tallying as many turnovers (two) as assist and rebounds combined. His body language looked worse than the form on his broken jumper. Yet, for some reason, Fizdale went back to the well in the second half.

The MSG faithful were fed up, booing Smith after missed jumpers and loudly chanting "We Want Frank," in the third quarter. After mercifully being subbed out, Smith untucked his jersey and wallowed on the end of the bench. Hearing the home crowd boo every time he uncorks a jumper is not exactly a confidence boost for a prideful athlete. And Fizdale has to shoulder that responsibility. It's incumbent upon a coach to have a feel for his troops, realizing that inexplicably leaving a struggling player in a game can do more harm than good.

That's one of the most frustrating aspects of Fizdale's handling of this debacle. He is not doing Smith any favors by throwing him out there. After Friday's terrible performance, the Knicks should have sat Smith down for at least a couple of games. They easily could have stated publicly that Smith's back was bothering him a bit and needed to give it a few days calm down. This strategy has been utilized countless times by teams/players in every professional sport for decades. Considering DSJ was not moving with his typical alacrity, appearing a step slow and somewhat stiff, it would have been an extremely plausible explanation. This would have allowed Smith to regroup mentally and physically, in the privacy of practice, not in front of 19,000 agitated New Yorkers desperate for a win.

Let DSJ get his mind right behind closed doors, and earn his way back on to the floor over time.

The Knicks end up being embarrassed on their home court in the second half Saturday night. They were outscored 72-44. Kemba Walker did the majority of the damage, pouring 21 of his 32 points in the second half alone, shooting 8-of-9 from the floor and 5-of-6 from 3-point territory. Guards Marcus Smart and Carsen Edwards chipped 22 in the game as well.

All the while, the Knicks best perimeter defender, Frank Ntilikina, inexplicably remained cemented to the bench. If you are getting zero contributions offensively from the backup PG spot anyway, might as well someone that is a notable upgrade on the other end of the floor.


Since arriving in New York, Fizdale has preached implementing a defense-first mentality but has often stubbornly stuck with offensive-minded players. Fizdale complains when the ball sticks, but allows ISO-reliant players to control the offense.

For instance, Marcus Morris is shooting 41% on the season, but has played 25 more minutes than Kevin Knox. And Fizdale has talked often about feeding a hot hand, but the Knicks have done a poor job putting Knox in positions to succeed. Over NY's first two games, Knox was shooting 10-of-17 from the floor and a scorching 7-of-8 from downtown. (Among NBA players who had attempted at least five 3-pointers, Knox was the only player in the league shooting better than 75% from behind the arc.) Yet, in the first half vs. Boston on Saturday, Knox got up just three shots, making two. Morris was 2-for-7.

The lack of a competent, reliable offensive system has been alarming. Far too often, New York's offense grinds to a halt in ISO ball. The lack of innovative sets to create open looks is undeniably concerning.

The Knicks are one of just three teams in the NBA dishing out fewer than 17.5 assists per 100 possessions this season. Those three squads (New York, Sacramento and OKC) are a combined 0-8 on the season. 64.6% of the Knicks made two-point FG's this season have been unassisted, which is the second-highest such mark in the league. This is a recurring problem. Last season, New York's percentage of unassisted made field goals (47.5%) was the highest in the NBA.

Ball security and sloppy play have also been significant obstacles to success. New York has committed 66 turnovers this season, more than any other team in the NBA. They have turned the ball over 51 times in the last two games alone. Per Basketball-Reference, it's the first time in over 13 years that the Knicks have committed 25+ TO's in back-to-back regular-season contests.

And, of course, defense remains an issue. The Knicks rank 22nd in the NBA in DefRtg and continue to be bedeviled by problems that plagued in 2018-19. They are allowing opponents far too many looks at wide-open 3-pointers, from the corners and straight away. New York is also allowing teams to shoot over 70% at the rim, which ranks 28th in the league. (This number should drop precipitously once Mitchell Robinson learns how to stay out of foul trouble.)

The aforementioned turnovers have also haunted New York. Knicks opponents are scoing 27.7 points per game off TO's, by far the most in the NBA.

The reality is the Knicks could have stolen either of their first two contests, which were tough road games against quality playoff teams. And they were competitive in the first half vs. Boston. So, it's not as if fans should abandon hope. A turnaround is possible. However, as I noted earlier in the week, it was vitally important, for several reasons, for New York to avoid stumbling out of the gates.

Well, they now find themselves in a 0-3 hole. It's incumbent upon not only the players, but also the coaching staff, to dig this team out.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
The 2018-19-20 Knicks coaching-staff SUCKS .. the Knicks development Program for the young-core players SUCKS too.
The Knicks head-coach Fizdale has a 18-71 LOSER record in NY !!!

The Knicks are in desperate NEED of a experience NBA head-coach having a offense-defense plan for the coaching-staff and our veterans and young-core players. It's been highly noted the past few years that NBA players and NBA head-coaches don't want to have anything to do with the Knicks organization. Why? It starts with the owner Dolan, and his front-office decision-making in the Knicks organization.
 

mafra

Legend
Brandon Hayward said don?t chant ?Fire Fizdale? .... instead we should shout ?Fire Management.?

The front office gave away our best player for nothing, they couldn?t sign a single free agent of note, they brought in 4 PF and neglected the PG position....

How is any coach going to win with this?

In MIA they preach 2 things: Effort and Conditioning.

If you don?t show up in excellent shape, and they measure body fat, then Pat Riley sends you home and you are in the dog house.

Perry isn?t demanding anything from these players.
 

mafra

Legend
?They?re asking Fizdale to bake a cake, but they forgot to give him the eggs,? said another scout last week in reference to the Knicks? roster.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
Brandon Hayward said don’t chant “Fire Fizdale” .... instead we should shout “Fire Management.”

The front office gave away our best player for nothing, they couldn’t sign a single free agent of note, they brought in 4 PF and neglected the PG position....

How is any coach going to win with this?

In MIA they preach 2 things: Effort and Conditioning.

If you don’t show up in excellent shape, and they measure body fat, then Pat Riley sends you home and you are in the dog house.

Perry isn’t demanding anything from these players.


Sorry, I been chanting FIRE Fizdale bout the same time last season, when Fiz started changing the starter-lineup so many times as if the Knicks are playing "Musical-Chairs" the first 10 games of the regular season.
Now .. if the Mills/Perry management didn't invite coach Fizdale to their $70M selection of FA signing in the off-season, then that's on Fizdale for never learning anything from Pat Riley in Miami. And Riley's reason for quitting the Knicks head-coaching job.
We know now .. the coach and management are not on the same-page .. maybe we need to hire unemployed Thib for the GM & Head-coaching job.
 

Kiyaman

Legend
“They’re asking Fizdale to bake a cake, but they forgot to give him the eggs,” said another scout last week in reference to the Knicks’ roster.

That's the same way i feel bout watching Fizdale's coaching .. No eggs (no-system), and No milk (offense/defense)
 

Kiyaman

Legend
We have a 1-6 record .. we have 8 new players added to the 2019-20 Knick roster .. we have a roster full of short 1 and 2 yr contract ....
How many players should we have in our game rotation receiving above 10 minute of playing-time?
 
I read online that Mills and Perry won?t fire Fizdale any time soon because it makes them look even stupider for picking him over other more qualified candidates.
 

tiger0330

Legend
I read online that Mills and Perry won’t fire Fizdale any time soon because it makes them look even stupider for picking him over other more qualified candidates.
We’re already hearing chants of fire Fizdale, I believe that’s the earliest I’ve ever heard the MSG fan call for the coach to be fired. I also don’t remember the fans calling for a coach to be fired and it didn’t happen. I do agree that after 6 games it’s too early to be parting ways with Fizdale but the record has to improve as the team gets more playing time together.
 
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mafra

Legend
To me, they?re all tied to the hip... nothing is mutually exclusive here. If 1 goes... all 3 go.

Perry, Mills and Fiz all go down with the ship.... together!
 

paris401

Starter
rip-van-dickhead here ... we bring in FA's on one year contracts, meaning next year we will go thru this same BS... wake me when we get a real team...
 

Kiyaman

Legend
We?re already hearing chants of fire Fizdale, I believe that?s the earliest I?ve ever heard the MSG fan call for the coach to be fired. I also don?t remember the fans calling for a coach to be fired and it didn?t happen. I do agree that after 6 games it?s too early to be parting ways with Fizdale but the record has to improve as the team gets more playing time together.


MSG fans chanted "Fire coach Don Nelson" after 5 games into the season, Nelson was hired after Pat Riley quit after taking the Knicks to the FINALS.
The Fans should not be the one asking for Fizdale's ticket out of NY.
The Knicks record will be 1-8 after Friday game ..
Last year this time the Knicks record were 3-6 ..
I'm sure the interim head-coach could do much better
 

donchris

Next season, keep waiting
MSG fans chanted "Fire coach Don Nelson" after 5 games into the season, Nelson was hired after Pat Riley quit after taking the Knicks to the FINALS.
The Fans should not be the one asking for Fizdale's ticket out of NY.
The Knicks record will be 1-8 after Friday game ..
Last year this time the Knicks record were 3-6 ..
I'm sure the interim head-coach could do much better

The record is terrible, but the players have to respond. Scoring has been inconsistent across the board. This is only excusable for Barrett. Randle should be the man right now. He's got to put up 25/10 per night.

I don't think firing coaches every two years is the solution. Especially with a major void of talent. We flat out don't have a floor general, don't have a leading scorer and a team full of solid role players. No coach will get much more out of this team.
 

tiger0330

Legend
The record is terrible, but the players have to respond. Scoring has been inconsistent across the board. This is only excusable for Barrett. Randle should be the man right now. He's got to put up 25/10 per night.

I don't think firing coaches every two years is the solution. Especially with a major void of talent. We flat out don't have a floor general, don't have a leading scorer and a team full of solid role players. No coach will get much more out of this team.

As Kiya pointed out we've got a worse record this year than last and that's with a roster of established vets and a promising rook whereas last year we had draft disappointments and the youngest squad in the NBA. Its early and you would hope that they can gel with more games played but if we're on track for the worst record come Jan Fizdale should be fired, he would deserve his firing more than Fisher and Hornacek, no sense rewarding incompetence no matter how many coaches we've fired in the past.
 

Dark Raider

Rotation player
I asked this questionsquestion in another thread.
Is Fiz being told what to say and who to play by the front office? Reason is the denial of access to the media this pass summer.
Has he been told to play and say nice things about RJ that doesn't believe should happen?
What say or input did he have with the draft and FA? If he is happy with all the signing and draft picks why restrict him from the media?
Something is going on and it not good. Is his coaching saying 'I told you so?

One good observation is how he is dealing with Dotson. Fiz learned last year by not playing Dotson at the beginning of the season. From the moment he started playing Dotson. He was in the rotation and then started. Why would you make the same mistake? Is playing RJ so many minutes a way to get back at management?
 

Kiyaman

Legend
The record is terrible, but the players have to respond. Scoring has been inconsistent across the board. This is only excusable for Barrett. Randle should be the man right now. He's got to put up 25/10 per night.

I don't think firing coaches every two years is the solution. Especially with a major void of talent. We flat out don't have a floor general, don't have a leading scorer and a team full of solid role players. No coach will get much more out of this team.


The basketball name for David Fizdale are Individual ISO-Fizdale !!!
When you see no real plays called and basically a pickup street basketball game.. you put that on the coach!
We are getting blown out by Sacramento & Detroit, that’s a big problem which reflects on the coach.
The average NBA head coach like Snyder or Brad Steven have decent seasons from drawing-up design scoring plays for at least 4 or more players in their rotation. Sorry, but Fizdale has not wrote one play having 3 or more touches on the ball.
The Knicks has been running the same offensive-play ISO every game throughout our past 4 head coaches as if we still keep the same assistant head-coach .. whats his name? or Melo's running the offense for 40 minute per game.

Having a player with Knox offensive talent, Fizdale should have wrote-up 4 different design plays for Knox to score on jumpers or slashing throughout his rookie season. There were no plays draw-up for Tim Hardaway perimeter shooting last season, and we have not draw-up one screen play for Ellington perimeter shooting this season.
The Knicks has 3 outstanding isolation players (Trier, Morris, and RJ) that would be deadly if we screen and pick off their defender before we throw them that ball.
The one season of Fizdale's stand-still one on one offense has not help one Knick player scoring talent, some say it helped Mudiay.

Randle was never a first, second, or third option on offense on his previous 2 teams .. Randle's best at scoring off of broken plays and getting offensive-rebounds. The Knicks bogus media in the offseason made Randle out to be a NBA high-scorer SMH
 
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mafra

Legend
?We have patience and we believe in coach and we believe in the group that we put together,? Mills said, with Perry standing next to him. ?But we also know, as Scott and I have said a number of times, we need to find a way to have a consistent level of effort and execution."

At 2-8, New York has the worst record in the Eastern Conference and is tied with the Golden State Warriors for worst record in the NBA.

?Obviously Scott and I are not happy with where we are right now,? Mills said. ?We think the team?s not performing to the level that we anticipated or expected to perform at.?

?A good friend of mine told me to never overreact to overreactors,? head coach David Fizdale said after the loss. ?We?re two games from the eight-seed. The team right now that?s in the eight seed has four wins?We just have to find our consistency and our game so we can start playing better basketball.?
 

tiger0330

Legend
Golden State is tanking this season if they're going to hold out Steph for the entire season for that broken hand injury to his non-shooting hand. The Knicks are trying to win bringing in 70M dollars of talent that they described as tough gritty players the fans are going to love, that's the difference between the two teams residing in last place in their respective conferences.

Fizdale heard the message loud and clear tonight, turn the ship around or pack your bags, you won't make it to the new year if the team doesn't start winning some games.

Going to be tough for Fizdale because starting with that Sixers game in a couple of weeks the schedule gets brutal.
 

mafra

Legend
GSW will be celebrated for tanking.... the narrative will be that it was the responsible move with Klay and Curry hurt. How smart it is to add a lottery talent to reload.

Of course, with KP our last season.... we were blasted for not ?going for it? with a roster that couldn?t go for anything but pepto bismo.

??//

"Given that this is our 10th game, we felt like we had an obligation to come and speak to you guys," Mills said. "Obviously, Scott and I are not happy with where we are right now. We think the team's not performing to the level that we anticipated or we expected to perform at and that's something that we think we have to collectively do a better job of delivering the product on the floor that we said we would do at the start of this season.

"We still believe in our coaching staff, we believe in the plan that Scott and I put together and the players that we've assembled. But we also have to acknowledge that we haven't played at the level we expected to play at. We've sort of seen glimpses of how we can play as a team, when everything comes together. But we've got to find a way to play complete games at the level that we expect our team to play at and that's a responsibility that we take collectively. But I also think it's important for us to communicate to our fans that we're not happy where we are right now and we're committed to making this better. But we have to, as a group, come together and be more consistent in terms of how we play."

Mills and Perry said that they believe in Fizdale, their second-year head coach, along with a seal of approval from owner James Dolan.

"Jim still believes in the plan that we put together, but he's passionate as we are about this," Mills said. "So he would want us to have better results on the floor as well, but I think Jim is a fan and believes in what we're doing. But he has the same expectations that we have and this is really about how we feel about what we should be doing, what we should be delivering as a group. We all take responsibility for that."

"We have patience and we believe in coach, and we believe in the group that we put together," Mills added. "But we also know that ... we need to find a way to have a consistent level of effort and execution. It has to pull itself together. It's not good enough, for us to play well enough for two quarters and then play poorly for two other quarters. What we have to do is find a way to play consistent basketball. And we believe in this group and we believe they're capable of doing it and we've just got to find a way to get them there."
 

mafra

Legend
Morris said ?**** Xs and Os... up to players.?

Sure, that sounds nice. But Xs and Os matter too. When CLE has awful
Defensive guards, the game plan shouldn?t be running offense through Randle and Portis. Did we post up RJ once?

Fizdale is a great asst coach. Clueless as a HC. He is a cheerleader not a tactician.
 
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