Keep the team as is or trade for Carmello/Sign him?

[KingCharles34]

While some posters have made great points on why Carmello would make us better, Metrocard continues to make great points on why we dont need him.

Im just taking everything in, trying to form my own opinion. Metrocard has alotta points when he brings up Mello's lack of 3 point shooting and defense.

I've seen Carmello play great defense AT TIMES but hes very inconsistent defensively and only seems to play when he wants to. I do think his defense would be better here in New York, just the way everybody else is playing right now would rub off on him (pause). But thats what I think, do I know that? No, I dont.

His 3 point shooting is what it is, it wont get better. And thats something that we would really need from him on our team, the more we can stretch the defense the better of an offensive team we'll be. So he would hold us back some there. As inconsistent as Gallinari has been this year (Last night being another example, 0pts in the 1st half, 20 in the 2nd), hes undeniably a better 3 point shooter then Carmello and teams have to respect that when they see Gallo near the 3 point line

Carmello's passing/teamplay? I dont think its as bad as some say it is but its not as good as some say it is either. He does average over 3 assists a game, I've seen him make some really nice passes to his teammates. Hes not a playmaker, but i dont see his ability to share the ball being a problem.

We've never seen him play with a PF like Amare, mostly because theres only one Amare. I think they would play well side by side but would Carmello make us a better team and if so how much?

What are his strengths?

-stepped up his rebounding this year
-Too strong for most other NBA small forwards
-good mid range shot
-good at posting up
-good slasher
-bullys other players (see vince carter)

But wait a minute, doesnt Amare do alotta things and score his points within the same range that Carmello does? Another great point by Metrocard is what Im alluding to here, its similar to what Miami has with Wade and Lebron. They're very similar players and dont compliment eachother that well. That probably wont be noticed for the most part against most teams, but it is noticed when the Heat go up against the elite teams.

At the same time, I dont think Amare and Carmello would be as similar of a duo (pause) as Lebron and Wade are. The difference is Lebron and Wade love to attack the basket. Carmello and Amare can attack the basket and hit the mid range shots.

So I guess I fall somewhere between Metrocard and all the posters that think we should get Carmello. But I do recall Metrocard in the past being a one man team, basically one of the only posters that was anti-Isiah from the beginning. And he turned out to be right about that.

As of right now, Im undecided. The Knicks are already playing at an elite level. Who knows what the future has in store for us, we could be the 2nd best team in the east real soon with a win over Miami tomorrow and the Cavs on Saturday.

Where do you stand on this?

 

[la2ny]

While some posters have made great points on why Carmello would make us better, Metrocard continues to make great points on why we dont need him.

Im just taking everything in, trying to form my own opinion. Metrocard has alotta points when he brings up Mello's lack of 3 point shooting and defense.

I've seen Carmello play great defense AT TIMES but hes very inconsistent defensively and only seems to play when he wants to. I do think his defense would be better here in New York, just the way everybody else is playing right now would rub off on him (pause). But thats what I think, do I know that? No, I dont.

His 3 point shooting is what it is, it wont get better. And thats something that we would really need from him on our team, the more we can stretch the defense the better of an offensive team we'll be. So he would hold us back some there. As inconsistent as Gallinari has been this year (Last night being another example, 0pts in the 1st half, 20 in the 2nd), hes undeniably a better 3 point shooter then Carmello and teams have to respect that when they see Gallo near the 3 point line

Carmello's passing/teamplay? I dont think its as bad as some say it is but its not as good as some say it is either. He does average over 3 assists a game, I've seen him make some really nice passes to his teammates. Hes not a playmaker, but i dont see his ability to share the ball being a problem.

We've never seen him play with a PF like Amare, mostly because theres only one Amare. I think they would play well side by side but would Carmello make us a better team and if so how much?

What are his strengths?

-stepped up his rebounding this year
-Too strong for most other NBA small forwards
-good mid range shot
-good at posting up
-good slasher
-bullys other players (see vince carter)

But wait a minute, doesnt Amare do alotta things and score his points within the same range that Carmello does? Another great point by Metrocard is what Im alluding to here, its similar to what Miami has with Wade and Lebron. They're very similar players and dont compliment eachother that well. That probably wont be noticed for the most part against most teams, but it is noticed when the Heat go up against the elite teams.

At the same time, I dont think Amare and Carmello would be as similar of a duo (pause) as Lebron and Wade are. The difference is Lebron and Wade love to attack the basket. Carmello and Amare can attack the basket and hit the mid range shots.

So I guess I fall somewhere between Metrocard and all the posters that think we should get Carmello. But I do recall Metrocard in the past being a one man team, basically one of the only posters that was anti-Isiah from the beginning. And he turned out to be right about that.

As of right now, Im undecided. The Knicks are already playing at an elite level. Who knows what the future has in store for us, we could be the 2nd best team in the east real soon with a win over Miami tomorrow and the Cavs on Saturday.

Where do you stand on this?

We are NOT the second best team in the east im sorry. i Hate uttering the words I hate saying that being a fan but sometimes we need a reality check.

I heard skip bayless say who's gonna guard LeBron tomorrow and whoever it was if they did do a decent job whos gonna stop him at the basket. Then throw in Wade. IDK what to think, but I like our team were good not Top 4 good but very good.IDK why everyone thinks were amazingly great after losing to an old beatup Celtics team,At home,after leading all game,and gave up 110 points. Nobody on this board thought we were a championship team a month ago so why are we now?We still have the same problems. Not saying Melo solves them but him and Amare are a great start to build a powerhouse around.

All the talk about the score from the same place isn't holding water to me. The Wade and James thing at the time their problem was not knowing how to play with each other, basically who was going to be the "The Man", they talked about sacrifice but didnt do it at first.They now know to play the best LBJ has to sacrifice and thats actually LeBrons game. D-Wade putting 30 up almost night in night out and LeBron's getting like 22-24 points with 7 rebounds and 5 assists. Melo can shoot 3's im not worried about that this team is better that we toned down on those anyway.Amare is a pick & roller yes but he's also a pick and pop guy so you can see the possibilities there. No Melo is no point foward, but look at Kobe he averaged 4-5 assists for years now, but everybody knows he is a great passer,not by the numbers,but because if the opporutunity is there he can do it and do it well and so can Melo.

Great players figure it out.Simple.point blank.period.
If Shaq in his prime with his ego could play with the best SG this era and win multiple titles then anyone can.

 

[vpell]

We need him. Now.

 

[vpell]

everyone except godemire, felton, and maybe fields, is expendable. we are not winning a championship this year, we need to keep our eyes on the prize, we will be young and ridiculously fast either way. a couple weeks of lost chemistry this year doesn't matter much to me.

 

[LJ4ptplay]

I'm with Metro on this. We don't need him. I suppose I would be ok with signing hm this summer, but a definite NO on trading for him.

And really, using our cap space/assets to fill out the roster with a solid scoring option off the bench, a rebounder/intimidator, and a solid PG off the bench would make us infinitely better than spending it all on Melo.

Think about San Antonio. The had a dominant PF with a very good PG and very good wings + reliable scorers off the bench. To me, depth and chemistry are more important than having multiple stars.

I actually hope the Nets trade all their assets for Melo and he signs there soon. I don't fear Melo, especially Melo on the Nets. Then we can all move on and actually use our assets to complete this roster. And I wouldn't be surprised if the Knicks started playing even better once the trade rumors ended.

 

[TR1LL10N]

Listen, Melo is an underrated defender and an above average rebounder. We all know his ability to score but it worth mentioning again. With STAT and Melo in the lineup who do you double? Does that not open up the floor for guys like Gallo, Chandler and Fields? Do you think if Melo was on our team last night that maybe we sustain the lead when STAT rests on the bench? It's impossible to know but the potential is obviously there.

I think it comes down to who we need to give up in order to get Melo. If it's too much then I say no, go after some role players instead. That said, we can never have too much offensive firepower...we can never have too many stars and we can never have too many players that command a double team. Further once you put together a core of Melo, STAT and Felton then everything will fall into place. Maybe not this year but in the years ahead we will have ample opportunities to fill needs...can the same be said about acquiring a talent like Melo?

Melo, STAT and Felton = as good a "big 3" as any in the league.

 

[p0nder]

I say you solidify the roster with a 2nd superstar as fast as possible. It was our plan all along to sign on 2 MAX players, why not capitalize on the position we are in and bring in the 2nd guy? Trade for him ASAP before another team gets him and he takes them to the finals.

Amar'e and Melo play different games and would compliment one another. Melo plays a very similar game to chandler but does everything better, including defend. Melo slashes, runs well without the ball and can play the game from beyond three pt. range to open up the lane for Amar'e's bruising. Teams have to respect Melo and that means less of the double and trippling on Amar'e opening up his game completely.

These are complimentrary players. Melo plays positions 2,3 and Melo can even play the 4 if we want. This helps our problem with needing a "big" to help STAT and Ronny. With Felton playing like an all-star I don't see a need to get someone like CP3. With Amar'e taking it to teams like a BEAST we don't need a big name Center, just someone who can help defend and box out for defensive rebounds.

Chandler is our stop gap solution, our "melo lite" if you will. He has been doing very well for Chandler but he is just not ever going to be the scoring threat that Melo is. He is a better defender of PF's, but we could address that need by bringing in a defensive minded role playing PF or C.


Felton has the heart of a champ. Amar'e dominates the offensive paint. All we need is that slashing/shooting player and we are there as an elite team. If you had felton/melo/stat on the team other players may be interested in taking a pay cut to get a ring. lots of "glue guys" like fields and chandler out there that want to win more then anything. and to do it in NY would be to do it in style.

I don't like leaving things to the winds of fate. if melo stays in denver or goes as a rental player to another team there is a possiblily that they go deep into the playoffs and then he could want to sign with them, thinking his best chance at a ring is there. Bring him to NY and lets get this party started.

With the majority of a playoff bound season left to play, Melo would have time to build chemistry with STAT and Felton and whoever else is here. That would carry on into the playoffs and could help secure a first round victory, presumably against one of the top 4 teams in the east. We could ride that momentum and energy all the way to the finals, where anything can happen. If we spent 2 years suffering through for this year, this season, then i think we deserve a shot at it ALL. RIGHT NOW

YOU. US. WE. NOW.

 

[la2ny]

I'm with Metro on this. We don't need him. I suppose I would be ok with signing hm this summer, but a definite NO on trading for him.

And really, using our cap space/assets to fill out the roster with a solid scoring option off the bench, a rebounder/intimidator, and a solid PG off the bench would make us infinitely better than spending it all on Melo.

Think about San Antonio. The had a dominant PF with a very good PG and very good wings + reliable scorers off the bench. To me, depth and chemistry are more important than having multiple stars.

I actually hope the Nets trade all their assets for Melo and he signs there soon. I don't fear Melo, especially Melo on the Nets. Then we can all move on and actually use our assets to complete this roster. And I wouldn't be surprised if the Knicks started playing even better once the trade rumors ended.

well ya boy Metro just said in the other thread Stephen curyy,lamar odom,jokim noah, and countless others are better than melo so idk what 2 say about that

 

[KingCharles34]

We are NOT the second best team in the east im sorry. i Hate uttering the words I hate saying that being a fan but sometimes we need a reality check.

I heard skip bayless say who's gonna guard LeBron tomorrow and whoever it was if they did do a decent job whos gonna stop him at the basket. Then throw in Wade. IDK what to think, but I like our team were good not Top 4 good but very good.IDK why everyone thinks were amazingly great after losing to an old beatup Celtics team,At home,after leading all game,and gave up 110 points. Nobody on this board thought we were a championship team a month ago so why are we now?We still have the same problems. Not saying Melo solves them but him and Amare are a great start to build a powerhouse around.

All the talk about the score from the same place isn't holding water to me. The Wade and James thing at the time their problem was not knowing how to play with each other, basically who was going to be the "The Man", they talked about sacrifice but didnt do it at first.They now know to play the best LBJ has to sacrifice and thats actually LeBrons game. D-Wade putting 30 up almost night in night out and LeBron's getting like 22-24 points with 7 rebounds and 5 assists. Melo can shoot 3's im not worried about that this team is better that we toned down on those anyway.Amare is a pick & roller yes but he's also a pick and pop guy so you can see the possibilities there. No Melo is no point foward, but look at Kobe he averaged 4-5 assists for years now, but everybody knows he is a great passer,not by the numbers,but because if the opporutunity is there he can do it and do it well and so can Melo.

Great players figure it out.Simple.point blank.period.
If Shaq in his prime with his ego could play with the best SG this era and win multiple titles then anyone can.

I dont think we're the 2nd best team in the East until we beat Miami. But right now we're looking like we're the 3rd best team. The Hawks are without Joe johnson for some time, Noah will be out for Chicago for 10 weeks, and the Magic continue to underachieve.

Yea we lost to an old Celtics team but thats still a very good Celtics team, probably the 2nd best team in the NBA right now, 3rd best once Bynum gets healthier for the Lakers.

Melo can shoot 3's? Yea he hits them sometimes but hes shooting 27.5% from downtown, just over 30% for his career

And like I said before I dont see Melo's passing being a problem. I think that he really wants to win a championship and realizes he has no chance in Denver. They're a good team but they'll never get by the Lakers and maybe a few other teams in the west. Billups is gettin older, Im almost 100% sure he wants to be a Knick. Either that, or maybe a member of the Bulls, but definitely not with the Nets.

Im not gonna vote until this thread gets more replies because im still trying to come to a conclusion myself, some of you have made good points on why we should get him, Metrocard has made good points on why we dont need him. I wanna here more before i decide. Im going with that Donnie Walsh swagger, patience and analyzing. Keep the responses/arguments coming

 

[metrocard]

I see the Knicks developing into a top 3 NBA East team within time.

Its only been under 30 games into the season and we've looked like the superior team vs Boston having the lead most of the game, they just got a lucky ending.

I believe in this roster. I believe in D'Antoni. If I didn't, I would be desperate in Melo.

Maybe I just an extra bit of confident in our starting 5 that most people don't have.

I've been thoroughly studying the Knicks the last decade. Through the bad times and the good times. I also been studying the NBA and the formula for success with other teams.

We got it.

Amare in my eyes is a Tier 1 NBA player. You can put him as the level as Kobe, LBJ, D12 and KD35.

Felton is a tier 4...IMO, he's good as Rondo right now; who happens to be the best player on the Celtics. Felton can only improve; he's always been talented, skilled and tough...in addition a clutch player who wants nothing but a W.

I have Felton in my top 20.

We have two elite players in Amare and Ray, in addition with a ROY candidate in Fields and two of the BEST swing man prospects in Gallinari and Chandler(who's playing like a top 50 NBA player right now).

We're loaded with an abundance of all around (offense and defensve) players and its truly unnecessary to break up this squad for a scoring upgrade that isn't even needed. We have the best offense in the NBA and we get stops when we need to. Only our serious weakness is experience. That will come to us in the playoffs. The turnovers and mistakes on defense will go away once this teams develops more chemistry, which I see unlimited potential in. Everyone on this team can do a set of dynamic skills on the court...very well rounded athletes.

Carmelo Anthony is just more of a name than a player. I don't believe in him because I see his career going down the same path Glen Robinson's career went and thats who I always compared Anthony to since his Syracuse's day. Yea, Anthony is on another level; but they're the same prototype to my eyes. I don't find that poppin' or intriguing at all.

I'm not trying to change your minds, I'm just letting you guys know I'm not all that excited for Carmelo.

I find more excitement in Ty Lawson who would make a killer back up PG in the Knicks and this system, even though I'm afraid of an undersized Felton/Lawson back court because these guys are so god damn good at basketball.

 

[la2ny]

Boston-Paul Pierce
Miami-Lebron James, Dwyane Wade
Orlando-idk
LA-Kobe Bryant
San Antonio-Manu Ginobli
Dallas-Caron Butler
Chicago-Derrick Rose

All have widely considered elite slashers types that are looked at as the clutch guy

 

[KingCharles34]

I say you solidify the roster with a 2nd superstar as fast as possible. It was our plan all along to sign on 2 MAX players, why not capitalize on the position we are in and bring in the 2nd guy? Trade for him ASAP before another team gets him and he takes them to the finals.

Amar'e and Melo play different games and would compliment one another. Melo plays a very similar game to chandler but does everything better, including defend. Melo slashes, runs well without the ball and can play the game from beyond three pt. range to open up the lane for Amar'e's bruising. Teams have to respect Melo and that means less of the double and trippling on Amar'e opening up his game completely.

These are complimentrary players. Melo plays positions 2,3 and Melo can even play the 4 if we want. This helps our problem with needing a "big" to help STAT and Ronny. With Felton playing like an all-star I don't see a need to get someone like CP3. With Amar'e taking it to teams like a BEAST we don't need a big name Center, just someone who can help defend and box out for defensive rebounds.

Chandler is our stop gap solution, our "melo lite" if you will. He has been doing very well for Chandler but he is just not ever going to be the scoring threat that Melo is. He is a better defender of PF's, but we could address that need by bringing in a defensive minded role playing PF or C.


Felton has the heart of a champ. Amar'e dominates the offensive paint. All we need is that slashing/shooting player and we are there as an elite team. If you had felton/melo/stat on the team other players may be interested in taking a pay cut to get a ring. lots of "glue guys" like fields and chandler out there that want to win more then anything. and to do it in NY would be to do it in style.

I don't like leaving things to the winds of fate. if melo stays in denver or goes as a rental player to another team there is a possiblily that they go deep into the playoffs and then he could want to sign with them, thinking his best chance at a ring is there. Bring him to NY and lets get this party started.

With the majority of a playoff bound season left to play, Melo would have time to build chemistry with STAT and Felton and whoever else is here. That would carry on into the playoffs and could help secure a first round victory, presumably against one of the top 4 teams in the east. We could ride that momentum and energy all the way to the finals, where anything can happen. If we spent 2 years suffering through for this year, this season, then i think we deserve a shot at it ALL. RIGHT NOW

YOU. US. WE. NOW.

I agree with much of what u said, i actually think we need a center right now more then Carmello. Someone that can block shots and rebound, a Kendrick Perkins type that can body up someone like Dwight Howard and slow him down. Im still not convinced that we need him though, no disrespect. Smoking weed has made me very open minded and analytical :weed:

well ya boy Metro just said in the other thread Stephen curyy,lamar odom,jokim noah, and countless others are better than melo so idk what 2 say about that

Was he saying they would be better fits for us then Melo? If thats the case then I definitely agree with Noah. I would love to have that guy in New York but the Bulls wont even trade him for Carmello.

 

[metrocard]

well ya boy Metro just said in the other thread Stephen curyy,lamar odom,jokim noah, and countless others are better than melo so idk what 2 say about that

I said they're equal.
Don't misquote me.

Another point I want to make is that we spend so much time trying to be like other teams. This Knicks team we have is unique and special in its own way.

An efficient offensive squad, and probably the best shooting team in the NBA with excellent agile and quick athletes, all skilled at passing and leads the NBA in blocks and overall help defense.

What the hell is a Big 3? Basketball takes 8-12 guys to win, not 3. Thats why Miami isn't dominating the NBA, they're an elite team, but they'll never dominate.

I feel like we something that is better than a Big 3.

Chalinari > Anthony.

 

[la2ny]

Was he saying they would be better fits for us then Melo? If thats the case then I definitely agree with Noah. I would love to have that guy in New York but the Bulls wont even trade him for Carmello.

no he said Melo wasn't even in his top 15 and put the rest of those names at the bottom of his post lol

 

[la2ny]

I said they're equal.
Don't misquote me.

Another point I want to make is that we spend so much time trying to be like other teams. This Knicks team we have is unique and special in its own way.

An efficient offensive squad, and probably the best shooting team in the NBA with excellent agile and quick athletes, all skilled at passing and leads the NBA in blocks and overall help defense.

What the hell is a Big 3? Basketball takes 8-12 guys to win, not 3. Thats why Miami isn't dominating the NBA, they're an elite team, but they'll never dominate.

I feel like we something that is better than a Big 3.

Chalinari > Anthony.

jus going off what i read if im mistaken then my bad.

Miami will in time. just like i said before its your opinion and yopur going to stick to your guns. i respect that I just don't understand why people tend to underate certain aspects of players games because someone tells you to.

 

[KingCharles34]

I see the Knicks developing into a top 3 NBA East team within time.

Its only been under 30 games into the season and we've looked like the superior team vs Boston having the lead most of the game, they just got a lucky ending.

I believe in this roster. I believe in D'Antoni. If I didn't, I would be desperate in Melo.

Maybe I just an extra bit of confident in our starting 5 that most people don't have.

I've been thoroughly studying the Knicks the last decade. Through the bad times and the good times. I also been studying the NBA and the formula for success with other teams.

We got it.

Amare in my eyes is a Tier 1 NBA player. You can put him as the level as Kobe, LBJ, D12 and KD35.

Felton is a tier 4...IMO, he's good as Rondo right now; who happens to be the best player on the Celtics. Felton can only improve; he's always been talented, skilled and tough...in addition a clutch player who wants nothing but a W.

I have Felton in my top 20.

We have two elite players in Amare and Ray, in addition with a ROY candidate in Fields and two of the BEST swing man prospects in Gallinari and Chandler(who's playing like a top 50 NBA player right now).

We're loaded with an abundance of all around (offense and defensve) players and its truly unnecessary to break up this squad for a scoring upgrade that isn't even needed. We have the best offense in the NBA and we get stops when we need to. Only our serious weakness is experience. That will come to us in the playoffs. The turnovers and mistakes on defense will go away once this teams develops more chemistry, which I see unlimited potential in. Everyone on this team can do a set of dynamic skills on the court...very well rounded athletes.

Carmelo Anthony is just more of a name than a player. I don't believe in him because I see his career going down the same path Glen Robinson's career went and thats who I always compared Anthony to since his Syracuse's day. Yea, Anthony is on another level; but they're the same prototype to my eyes. I don't find that poppin' or intriguing at all.

I'm not trying to change your minds, I'm just letting you guys know I'm not all that excited for Carmelo.

I find more excitement in Ty Lawson who would make a killer back up PG in the Knicks and this system, even though I'm afraid of an undersized Felton/Lawson back court because these guys are so god damn good at basketball.

Excellent points made especially in the paragraph i bolded

I guess I see Carmello as a better player then you do but I still see the points your making. Just like with Isiah, your the only one on this board that I've seen that doesnt want Carmello here but you got the arguments to back it up. At first i wasnt really sure why someone wouldnt want Carmello but one of the best points you made is that we already have one of the best offenses in the nba so perhaps we should look to fix our weaknesses instead of improving our strengths and I see our biggest weaknesses at the center position and we could use a backup point guard.

I wanna see what some of the other posters come in here and say, but i am leaning towards your arguments.

 

[nyk_nyk]

Lets make this clear: If you have a chance to get Melo, YOU DO IT. Also, I know Fields is a great rookie and has plenty of upside BUT HE IS NOT A DEAL BREAKER FOR GETTING MELO. The team as constructed is good now, but with Melo its better even without one or two players. If you have a core of Amare and Melo, filling in the other spots won't be difficult since their presence alone makes people better.

Melo is a smart all-around player who I believe would thrive playing with Amare. Just think if you replaced Amare with Kenyon Martin, DEN would have been to the finals already. To further that point, whenever K-Mart had good games the nuggets were dominant enough to beat anyone. Unfortunately for DEN k-mart was inconsistent but that wouldn't be a problem with Amare.

Yes Gallo hits 3s and helps spread the floor, but the guy is very inconsistent and only plays with passion and toughness when he's provoked or upset. Melo will give you that EVERY NIGHT.

As if I wasn't clear enough: Team Melo

:gony:

 

[metrocard]

Lets make this clear: If you have a chance to get Melo, YOU DO IT. Also, I know Fields is a great rookie and has plenty of upside BUT HE IS NOT A DEAL BREAKER FOR GETTING MELO. The team as constructed is good now, but with Melo its better even without one or two players. If you have a core of Amare and Melo, filling in the other spots won't be difficult since their presence alone makes people better.

Melo is a smart all-around player who I believe would thrive playing with Amare. Just think if you replaced Amare with Kenyon Martin, DEN would have been to the finals already. To further that point, whenever K-Mart had good games the nuggets were dominant enough to beat anyone. Unfortunately for DEN k-mart was inconsistent but that wouldn't be a problem with Amare.

Yes Gallo hits 3s and helps spread the floor, but the guy is very inconsistent and only plays with passion and toughness when he's provoked or upset. Melo will give you that EVERY NIGHT.

As if I wasn't clear enough: Team Melo

:gony:

Melo is just a name.

 

[nyk_nyk]

Melo is just a name.

A name he's earned by bringing it to the best players and teams in the league for years.

 

[metrocard]

A name he's earned by bringing it to the best players and teams in the league for years.

You don't see any hype?

Anyway, if Melo comes to NYK, what number you think he'll rock?