Should the Knicks trade the pick?

[Kiyaman]

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As a Knick, yes Melo hasn't been the best playoff contributor since he shoots about 40% FG and 30% from 3 point land...however he still manages to score nearly 28 ppg with 5 rebounds and 1 steal on average. And with Denver his percentages were even better.

He can perform in the playoffs and never had championship talent around him. His best chances were with Denver with a healthy younger Chauncey Billups, Aaron Afflalo, etc. But even then most guys that win championships have better supporting casts.

What Melo said about the offseason is true: "We need good players"...case in point. He needs a supporting cast.

Melo should have no say-so on anything about the Knicks transaction ...
In Denver Melo was given 4 star teammates that been to the FINALS before becoming Melo teammate .. Camby, Kenyon Martin, Iverson, Billups .. those star-players strong-leadership gave the Denver Nuggets 50 win seasons.
Did Melo give the Knicks a 54 win season?
Or did the "Old-Heads" give the Knicks a 54 win season?

Stop believing the media HYPE on Melo wins game for Nuggets or Knicks

 

[Broadway]

The plot thickens. Not getting the number 1 really screwed up the draft for the Knicks, they have no clue now with 4.

I have no problem trading down, but not sure with Ford on this news.... concerning what Franscilla said about draft rumors around this time and people having sources. But why would we tip our hands and state the 3 players, that would ruin some leverage to trade if so. I think Ford put this out there to get a feel of what we're going to do or to get 1 of the above teams to help establish who the Top 3 are gonna be. If we sent this his way I wonder if it's a smokescreen.

 

[tiger0330]

I have no problem trading down, but not sure with Ford on this news.... concerning what Franscilla said about draft rumors around this time and people having sources. But why would we tip our hands and state the 3 players, that would ruin some leverage to trade if so. I think Ford put this out there to get a feel of what we're going to do or to get 1 of the above teams to help establish who the Top 3 are gonna be. If we sent this his way I wonder if it's a smokescreen.

Its probably rumors and the Knicks have always said they would be willing to trade down, Ford is just adding 3 names in the mix that make it almost certain the Knicks want to trade down. Just because they want to doesn't mean they will, there has to be a deal out there for the Knicks.

Knicks don't have a lot of trade assets to bring back a player in a deal, Calderon had a miserable season and is not an expiring so I think hes untradeable. The Knicks would have to include THJ or Galloway to move him. Would have been so much easier if the Knicks had the first pick in the draft.

 

[Broadway]

Its probably rumors and the Knicks have always said they would be willing to trade down, Ford is just adding 3 names in the mix that make it almost certain the Knicks want to trade down. Just because they want to doesn't mean they will, there has to be a deal out there for the Knicks.

Knicks don't have a lot of trade assets to bring back a player in a deal, Calderon had a miserable season and is not an expiring so I think hes untradeable. The Knicks would have to include THJ or Galloway to move him. Would have been so much easier if the Knicks had the first pick in the draft.

Yeah read Begley's synopsis of Ford's Insider write up. Ford simply put this out there as filler to keep the Insider schtick going. He's reading the tea leaves or say "between" them and trying to connect dots. He might as well said we're all paying taxes next yr.

 

[SSj4Wingzero]

Yeah read Begley's synopsis of Ford's Insider write up. Ford simply put this out there as filler to keep the Insider schtick going. He's reading the tea leaves or say "between" them and trying to connect dots. He might as well said we're all paying taxes next yr.

All that said, I wouldn't mind trading down, but not THAT FAR down. It all depends on what you get out of it.

For example, the Nuggets pick at #7 - if they really wanted Porzingis and were willing to give us Kenneth Faried and a first-round pick in 2016, that's a deal the Knicks could consider. I highly doubt they'd do that kind of a deal, though, but it all depends on how bad the team wants a certain player. I vaguely remember the New Orleans Saints trading literally every single one of their 7 draft picks in 1999 just to pick Ricky Williams, so you listen to whatever offers you get.

 

[Broadway]

All that said, I wouldn't mind trading down, but not THAT FAR down. It all depends on what you get out of it.

For example, the Nuggets pick at #7 - if they really wanted Porzingis and were willing to give us Kenneth Faried and a first-round pick in 2016, that's a deal the Knicks could consider. I highly doubt they'd do that kind of a deal, though, but it all depends on how bad the team wants a certain player. I vaguely remember the New Orleans Saints trading literally every single one of their 7 draft picks in 1999 just to pick Ricky Williams, so you listen to whatever offers you get.

Your scenario would have to be modified to #4 for #7 and Faried<------which is a fair deal. Denver in no way would surrender the 2016 1st they own in such proposal.

 

[tiger0330]

Your scenario would have to be modified to #4 for #7 and Faried<------which is a fair deal. Denver in no way would surrender the 2016 1st they own in such proposal.

Only way we get Faried is if they take Calderon. We don't have any contracts to give them other than his and even then we have to work the deal like sign an old cap hold like we did with QRich when we dealt for Bargs.

Face it Calderon is virtually untradable, the Knicks are going to have to stretch him if they want to dump him but PJ will be reluctant to do that for obvious reasons.

Most realistic deal is swapping first picks and getting their second this year and getting their first next year as a lottery protected one. The question is would it be worth it or should the Knicks take Zingis at 4.

 

[Broadway]

Only way we get Faried is if they take Calderon. We don't have any contracts to give them other than his and even then we have to work the deal like sign an old cap hold like we did with QRich when we dealt for Bargs.

Face it Calderon is virtually untradable, the Knicks are going to have to stretch him if they want to dump him but PJ will be reluctant to do that for obvious reasons.

Most realistic deal is swapping first picks and getting their second this year and getting their first next year as a lottery protected one. The question is would it be worth it or should the Knicks take Zingis at 4.

While I understand the motivation to include Calderon Denver still says no. 3 spots to move up, they aren't that desperate. Let's keep it real there's a good chance players 5-10 will have as good a career as players 1-5 depending on how the draft shakes out.

While yes we're taking on a bigger contract in Faried it's essentially signing him at $50mil instead of signing Monroe at $70mil, which means we have almost enough space for another Max contract.

We're not getting multiple picks from Denver to go down 3 spots. A team in the 10-14 range we could probably make the deals you're suggesting.


This brings me back to the Blake Girffin Carmelo rumors from 3yrs ago, where fans were adamant if a trade went down Clips needed to send us Blake-Jordan-pick....Melol

 

[tiger0330]

While I understand the motivation to include Calderon Denver still says no. 3 spots to move up, they aren't that desperate. Let's keep it real there's a good chance players 5-10 will have as good a career as players 1-5 depending on how the draft shakes out.

While yes we're taking on a bigger contract in Faried it's essentially signing him at $50mil instead of signing Monroe at $70mil, which means we have almost enough space for another Max contract.

We're not getting multiple picks from Denver to go down 3 spots. A team in the 10-14 range we could probably make the deals you're suggesting.


This brings me back to the Blake Girffin Carmelo rumors from 3yrs ago, where fans were adamant if a trade went down Clips needed to send us Blake-Jordan-pick....Melol

If they want someone so badly who is available at 4 like Zingis or WCS they might swap 3 picks to move up.

Saints did it in 1999 like Wingzero said.

The Saints traded away 8 picks, including two 1st rounders, to the Washington Redskins so they could move up from their own #12 spot in the draft to the #5 spot.

 

[Broadway]

If they want someone so badly who is available at 4 like Zingis or WCS they might swap 3 picks to move up.

Saints did it in 1999 like Wingzero said.

You can't compare Basketball to Football(which has like 7-8 rounds of drafting) come on. Historically go through the past and find basketball examples that fit the suggestions for draft day trades. You might find 1-2 if any. This isn't Banana In The Tail Pipe come true trickery on teams. It doesn't and won't happen.

 

[SSj4Wingzero]

You can't compare Basketball to Football(which has like 7-8 rounds of drafting) come on. Historically go through the past and find basketball examples that fit the suggestions for draft day trades. You might find 1-2 if any. This isn't Banana In The Tail Pipe come true trickery on teams. It doesn't and won't happen.

I won't rule it out, but you're right that it was an extreme scenario. It'd have to be a team that is desperate for one of these players. As good as this draft is, I don't think anybody thinks of guys like Porzingis or Mudiay the same way people thought of Ricky Williams back in 1999 - this draft is deep, and I think a lot of teams are smart enough to realize that a pick at #6 is just as good as a pick at #4. Frankly, there isn't even a clear-cut consensus on who the best player is - right now, Towns is the first overall pick, and he probably will be selected first, but would it surprise anyone to find out that, in 3 years, Mudiay or Russell is a better player than Towns? Not a chance. Hell, even Okafor vs. Towns isn't a sure thing by any means. I don't think anybody is going to sacrifice that much to trade up in a draft when the difference between the #1 pick and the #5 pick, or the #5 pick and the #8 pick, isn't even a sure thing.

 

[mafra]

All that said, I wouldn't mind trading down, but not THAT FAR down. It all depends on what you get out of it.

For example, the Nuggets pick at #7 - if they really wanted Porzingis and were willing to give us Kenneth Faried and a first-round pick in 2016, that's a deal the Knicks could consider. I highly doubt they'd do that kind of a deal, though, but it all depends on how bad the team wants a certain player. I vaguely remember the New Orleans Saints trading literally every single one of their 7 draft picks in 1999 just to pick Ricky Williams, so you listen to whatever offers you get.

Screw DEN. They stuck it to Dolan in the 'Melo trade. If they want to trade up: They swap 1st round picks with us this year AND they take Calderon AND they give us Faired AND they give us their 1st next year (unprotected).

DEN is begging teams to help them shed 2 bad contracts(an dump players thy no longer want on their teams). If they want to move up in this draft and dump Faired's contract, at the least we should demand they take Calderon and give us a 1st in 2016.

 

[Paul1355]

Screw DEN. They stuck it to Dolan in the 'Melo trade. If they want to trade up: They swap 1st round picks with us this year AND they take Calderon AND they give us Faired AND they give us their 1st next year (unprotected).

DEN is begging teams to help them shed 2 bad contracts(an dump players thy no longer want on their teams). If they want to move up in this draft and dump Faired's contract, at the least we should demand they take Calderon and give us a 1st in 2016.

Don't be shocked if Phil trades Calderon and the 4th for Faried and the 7th, maybe an additonal pick in second round or next years first to compensate.

This would be a good move for both sides.

Denver needs depth at the point and even though Calderon sucked he was injured most of the year and would help the young players in Denver. Also, he is there in case the Nuggets trade Lawson. Denver can then target Mudiay as their franchise PG.

Knicks can get rid of Calderons dead weight and finally add an athletic big man to put at the 4 spot. Faried isnt a scorer but the kid can rebound like a beast and run the floor like a swingman. He is young and super athletic. We would also get teh 7th pick and could even get Cauley Stein and then have some legit young bigs for the future. If Denver gives us an additional second round pick ro future first we are fine for next years draft.

We could then use that free agency money on another big for depth or go after a guard or two.

 

[Paul1355]

All that said, I wouldn't mind trading down, but not THAT FAR down. It all depends on what you get out of it.

For example, the Nuggets pick at #7 - if they really wanted Porzingis and were willing to give us Kenneth Faried and a first-round pick in 2016, that's a deal the Knicks could consider. I highly doubt they'd do that kind of a deal, though, but it all depends on how bad the team wants a certain player. I vaguely remember the New Orleans Saints trading literally every single one of their 7 draft picks in 1999 just to pick Ricky Williams, so you listen to whatever offers you get.

The Nuggets are a realistic option for the Knicks as trade partners. They want to move up and are dangling lawson and faried. Since Phil wants a big man, getting Faried isnt a bad conselation prize.

I think we should only deal the 4th if we can get rid of Calderons contract and swap picks. Shedding Jose's 7 mil is huge for us. He is old and breaking down. Atleast Faried is young and athletic, plus a need.

If we can get a lottery pick or two first rounders for the 4th im fine with that.

 

[SSj4Wingzero]

The Nuggets are a realistic option for the Knicks as trade partners. They want to move up and are dangling lawson and faried. Since Phil wants a big man, getting Faried isnt a bad conselation prize.

I think we should only deal the 4th if we can get rid of Calderons contract and swap picks. Shedding Jose's 7 mil is huge for us. He is old and breaking down. Atleast Faried is young and athletic, plus a need.

If we can get a lottery pick or two first rounders for the 4th im fine with that.

Getting two first rounders would be tough since nobody has more than one in this draft, far as I know, and if they do, none of them is very high. Late first-round picks aren't worth that much. Getting the #7 pick wouldn't be too bad because we could still get one of either Mario Hezonja, Trey Lyles, Justise Winslow, or even Mudiay if he falls further - all four of these guys have tremendous potential and excellent physical tools.

Now it depends on what you want from Denver - do you want expiring contracts? Denver has Wilson Chandler, whose contract expires after 2016, freeing up cap space. Do you want young talent? Denver has Jusuf Nurkic (great rebounder and shotblocker, grabbed 1.1 BPG, 6.2 RPG, and 6.9 PPG despite only playing 17.8 minutes per game; if he played 36 minutes, he'd easily get 2 BPG, 10 RPG, and 10 PPG - basically, he'd be able to do what Kenneth Faried does, as long as he learns to stay out of foul trouble). Do you want a proven, albeit expensive player? Kenneth Faried and Ty Lawson would fill excellent roles on the Knicks - the Knicks need a point guard, and we suck at rebounding.

If the Knicks could get #7, Nurkic, and Chandler for #4 and Calderon, it'd be a great trade for the Knicks. Denver would also get a PG since apparently the team's relationship with Ty Lawson isn't too good. The Knicks would get Chandler's expiring contract, a good, young, legit presence at center with potential to become one of the league's better shotblockers and rebounders, and dump Calderon's contract to free up cap space for 2016's free agency, all the while still being able to pick a potential all-star at #7.

Of course, they only do this if Russell, Okafor, and Towns are off the board - if by some miracle the Knicks get one of those three, then you just pick that player at #4 and deal with it.

 

[Paul1355]

Getting two first rounders would be tough since nobody has more than one in this draft, far as I know, and if they do, none of them is very high. Late first-round picks aren't worth that much. Getting the #7 pick wouldn't be too bad because we could still get one of either Mario Hezonja, Trey Lyles, Justise Winslow, or even Mudiay if he falls further - all four of these guys have tremendous potential and excellent physical tools.

Now it depends on what you want from Denver - do you want expiring contracts? Denver has Wilson Chandler, whose contract expires after 2016, freeing up cap space. Do you want young talent? Denver has Jusuf Nurkic (great rebounder and shotblocker, grabbed 1.1 BPG, 6.2 RPG, and 6.9 PPG despite only playing 17.8 minutes per game; if he played 36 minutes, he'd easily get 2 BPG, 10 RPG, and 10 PPG - basically, he'd be able to do what Kenneth Faried does, as long as he learns to stay out of foul trouble). Do you want a proven, albeit expensive player? Kenneth Faried and Ty Lawson would fill excellent roles on the Knicks - the Knicks need a point guard, and we suck at rebounding.

If the Knicks could get #7, Nurkic, and Chandler for #4 and Calderon, it'd be a great trade for the Knicks. Denver would also get a PG since apparently the team's relationship with Ty Lawson isn't too good. The Knicks would get Chandler's expiring contract, a good, young, legit presence at center with potential to become one of the league's better shotblockers and rebounders, and dump Calderon's contract to free up cap space for 2016's free agency, all the while still being able to pick a potential all-star at #7.

Of course, they only do this if Russell, Okafor, and Towns are off the board - if by some miracle the Knicks get one of those three, then you just pick that player at #4 and deal with it.

You make good points..I think Jackson won't take too much back in a trade. I think he wants picks or young talent. He wants freedom to choose who he wants in free agency.

I know Boston has the 16 and like 28 pick or something like that. Some teams have a first rounder and multiple second rounders. We can make something work.

But I think dumping Calderon contract is what Phil is aiming for if he trades down.

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[SSj4Wingzero]

If we could somehow get Nurkic from the Nuggets, that'd be a good haul. I'd take #7 + Nurkic + Chandler's expiring contract for #4 + Calderon, but I don't know if Denver would do that one. That'd be a great move. Would give us a good guard like Hezonja or Mudiay, a solid big man, and free up cap space.

 

[Paul1355]

Kaminsky visits Pistons: 'I can play alongside anyone' (via http://ble.ac/teamstream-) http://teamstre.am/1SAGyEq

Pistons are looking to deal the 8th pick...we should start talking to the Pistons

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[SSj4Wingzero]

Kaminsky visits Pistons: 'I can play alongside anyone' (via http://ble.ac/teamstream-) http://teamstre.am/1SAGyEq

Pistons are looking to deal the 8th pick...we should start talking to the Pistons

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The 8th pick...would they give us Drummond? Maybe Jackson?

But the #8 pick is not that great of a pick. Towns, Okafor, Russell, Mudiay, Porzingis, Hezonja, and Winslow will all be off the board at #8. It seems to me that there's a huge dropoff in talent from the #7 pick (probably Hezonja or Winslow) to the #8 pick (WCS, Trey Lyles, Cameron Payne, Stanley Johnson). The guys available at #8 seem like they would be solid starters, but I don't think any of them is all-star level. Basically, unless Denver, Sacramento, or Orlando swaps picks with us, the team that does it better give us an incredible talent that we could build around AND take Calderon's contract.

 

[Paul1355]

The 8th pick...would they give us Drummond? Maybe Jackson?

But the #8 pick is not that great of a pick. Towns, Okafor, Russell, Mudiay, Porzingis, Hezonja, and Winslow will all be off the board at #8. It seems to me that there's a huge dropoff in talent from the #7 pick (probably Hezonja or Winslow) to the #8 pick (WCS, Trey Lyles, Cameron Payne, Stanley Johnson). The guys available at #8 seem like they would be solid starters, but I don't think any of them is all-star level. Basically, unless Denver, Sacramento, or Orlando swaps picks with us, the team that does it better give us an incredible talent that we could build around AND take Calderon's contract.

If we can dump Calderon contact it'd worth trading down 4 spots and I disagree that we can't get a good pick at 8

We can get a fantastic pick at 8...Winslow and cauley stein might be available. Hezonja is going to be an instant 6th man in the NBA. Even porzingis can fall to 8...we can swap Calderon for a veteran and then swap picks...I'm fine with that.

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