Knicks cleaning house...trade JR Smith and Shumpert

tiger0330 said:

PJ got zip in return for JR and Shump, try to trade Calderon, Bargs or Amare for some picks. If he can't do that, buyout Bargs and Amare and complete the house cleaning.

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Bargs and Amare have to be healthy to trade. They both expire next year so I suspect they will stay with us, unless we can get a first rounder out of it, which is unlikely. No need to trade them. They are set to be gone anyway.
Melo and Calderone are the only large contracts we have...everyone else is peanuts, Calderone 7 million will be hard to ditch. Might have to include Early or THJr.

tiger0330 said:

Not exactly correct that the Knicks got nothing, they also got 2 pretty big trade exceptions that can be used to pick up a nice role player. Now we can only hope PJ is as good a deal maker as Pat Riley.

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I didn't know about the trade exceptions....and don't forget a 2019 second rounder. Doesn't help us now. Unless he uses it to move calderone...

It dont look good having a 5-32 record 3 months into the season, and it dont look good being 1-5 worst teams in the league at the end of the season praying for Lottery-Balls to drop your way.
The same way it dont look good each season discussing the many players on the Knicks roster who dont want to be apart of the Knicks organization. That's what the Knicks trade was all about.

Three teams got together and reached an agreement on a three-team, six-player trade on Monday that will send guards J.R. Smith and Iman Shumpert from the Knicks to the Cavaliers, and guard Dion Waiters will go from Cleveland to Oklahoma City.

As part of the deal, Cleveland will trade forward Lou Amundson and center Alex Kirk to New York, and the Thunder will send forward Lance Thomas to the Knicks. Cleveland also receives a protected first-round pick from Oklahoma City, and the Knicks will acquire a second-round pick from the Cavaliers.

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It will be hard for Knicks fans to admit now, and in the future the best athletic & talented players in this 6 player 3-team trade are Iman Shumpert and Knucklehead JRsmith. Yet, the dum-dum Cavs management get OKC 2015 first round pick plus starter Shump, and bench scorer JR (Phil Jackson is a IDIOT), because (9 out of 10) Reggie Jackson probably refuse to report to the 5-32 Knicks organization. So the Cavs & OKC give Phil their teams garbage bench players and a 2019 2nd round pick.

Word to the wise, this was best trade_move the Cleveland Cavs made in over 20 years.
The Cavs stupid trade move early in the season Wiggins/Bennett for Love, took away what could have turn out to be one of the fastest running teams in the league.
The Knicks Phil Jackson saved the Cleveland Cavs!!!!!!

The only good thing to say about this trade is 6.9 Lou Amundson were Stat teammate on the Phoenix Suns in 2009-10. when the Phoenix Suns went to the WCF.
Yes, Lou Amundson skills are far better than Jason Smith and Acy put together.

All the cap room the Knicks will have in the 2015 offseason means NOTHING when winning players has no interest in playing for a 15 year losing Knicks organization.

skisloper said:

For the Record...
Chief.....how can u be sad to see JR go......after the foul on terry in boston, his partying the night before a playoff game and his own admission that he did not try last season...one cannot feel bad...

as for getting something for Shump/JR......PJ got something ...he got Smith off our books.....NOBODY in 5 years ever wanted or offered any deal for JR!!!!!!!

For what is deemed as " Melo Haters" yes I agree we will all be proven right or wrong this time.....PJ will build a team around MELO so its hero or zero.....


I still think Hardaway/Calderon as well as Prigs will be traded giving us 40 million for next year with just Melo and Early on the books...

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JR elbowing Jason Terry was uncalled for in a winning Knicks playoff game with 2 minutes left in the game to make the series a 3-0 Knicks lead. The Knicks won the series 4-2. In the 2013 offseason the Knicks were suppose to let JRsmith sign with the Bucks.

AND KIYA.......Would u not agree BESIDES the Melo full deal ( TBD) then 40 million in cap space, a lottery pick is a good way to head into next season.....

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Yes I agree, thats a great situation to be in for any building team.
Having a low first round pick (1-6) to select a future star player out the draft.
Being under the cap allows the Knicks to trade for high contract player from the next team in the offseason without giving equal back, plus have $$$ to sign a FA star-player, and veteran role-players.

All thats GOOD .... until u TRY to select what players want to play for Dolan Knicks, where a non-leadership captain Carmelo Anthony controls the offense 40 minutes a game.
Phil Jackson getting rid of Melo's 8 season teammate JR.smith is a good thing in getting players a little interested in coming to the Knicks in the offseason, but not enough.
Will Phil Jackson force the $124M contract Melo to work out with new teammates for 6 weeks of the offseason? before training-camp open? If not ???

I hear that the Knicks plan on releasing all of the players they acquired in this trade. Can anyone confirm this?
This is all about preserving and creating more cap space for the future. Now that Melo, Stats and Bargiani are injured our best player is Cole Aldridge? Come on number 1 draft pick!

donchris said:

I hear that the Knicks plan on releasing all of the players they acquired in this trade. Can anyone confirm this?
This is all about preserving and creating more cap space for the future. Now that Melo, Stats and Bargiani are injured our best player is Cole Aldridge? Come on number 1 draft pick!

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I read they may keep the OKC kid Thomas but the others are going to be waived.Even with him they still have 2 roster spots to bring up Galloway and perhaps Ante at some point.

donchris said:

I hear that the Knicks plan on releasing all of the players they acquired in this trade. Can anyone confirm this?
This is all about preserving and creating more cap space for the future. Now that Melo, Stats and Bargiani are injured our best player is Cole Aldridge? Come on number 1 draft pick!

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If the Knicks release all the players they acquired in this trade ...means

1) Each player already refuse to perform for the Knicks.
2) Phil Jackson is the number 1 idiot GM for not taking the OKC 2015 first round pick.
3) The Knicks future look awful.

Kiyaman said:

If the Knicks release all the players they acquired in this trade ...means

1) Each player already refuse to perform for the Knicks.
2) Phil Jackson is the number 1 idiot GM for not taking the OKC 2015 first round pick.
3) The Knicks future look awful.

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Or they want to give those spots to younger guys with more potential. The Greek Freaks brother and Langston Galloway can be signed for 10 day contracts. They've been playing the triangle on the D league team so its time to see if they've learned anything.

Kiyaman said:

JR elbowing Jason Terry was uncalled for in a winning Knicks playoff game with 2 minutes left in the game to make the series a 3-0 Knicks lead. The Knicks won the series 4-2. In the 2013 offseason the Knicks were suppose to let JRsmith sign with the Bucks.



Yes I agree, thats a great situation to be in for any building team.
Having a low first round pick (1-6) to select a future star player out the draft.
Being under the cap allows the Knicks to trade for high contract player from the next team in the offseason without giving equal back, plus have $$$ to sign a FA star-player, and veteran role-players.

All thats GOOD .... until u TRY to select what players want to play for Dolan Knicks, where a non-leadership captain Carmelo Anthony controls the offense 40 minutes a game.
Phil Jackson getting rid of Melo's 8 season teammate JR.smith is a good thing in getting players a little interested in coming to the Knicks in the offseason, but not enough.
Will Phil Jackson force the $124M contract Melo to work out with new teammates for 6 weeks of the offseason? before training-camp open? If not ???

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JR extending the series lead to Melo hurting his shoulder in the following game....Chief how could u forget ??

I guess we will see if Phil Jackson can work his magic or be a bust............Whats amazing is he gets paid 12 million to do what we all think about on a daily basis........What PJ needs to do is trade Hardaway/Calderon and get a first rounder and expiring contracts back or a first rounder for Hardaway.......If we do not win the lottery that extra 1st rounder might be needed to secure Okafur.....

WOW... lots of opinions.... here's mine... if in the middle of feb, the Kentucky wildcats play the knicks in an exhibition game... who comes out on top???... I say the wildcats....that's the sad state of the NYKnicks

Show me a championship contender and I'll show you a team with a high (1-5) Draft pick out playing his contract.
MIA (last few years), SA, OKC, CLE, CHI, etc...

This is the best thing that could have happened to the Knicks. Too bad we're still in wait til' next year mode.

Wargames said:

Yep those TPE could come in handy with moving Calderon or might be used after FA to try and add another piece or two. We wont know until next year when they expire.

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That's how you look at it. Phil wasnt here last year, so he isnt accountable for drafting Shump over Faired or not trading IS for a first round pick.

The trade exemptions are like possessing another MLE. That's 1-2 players we could trade for. Also, it was imoerative to ensure JR and his 6.5 mil next season went POOF... Adios. Again, that's a pretty good player for that salary... Or a few young guys...

Is getting a late 1st rounder... Pick 25... Really make this move more attractive?

We still have Amar'e wjo should fetch us something. I would love to dump Calder too... mainly bc I want Dragic... And 15 mil or something not wise to allocate on 2 PGs. But it is not a must to trade Calderon, bc his presence might help lure his best friend here (Marc Gasol).

Sure... Getting Waiters or Reggie Jax ir a first rounder would have been better... But this the knicks... We never get the better end of much of anything.

Also, don't ever forget this: if Walsh and Dantoni stayed the course and sucked it up... Had they tanked, er... "Developed" young players in 2008 and 2009, instead of signing average vets (Harrington and Hughes for example)... If we lost just 4 more games each of those two seasons... Instead of drafting Gallo and Hill... We draft Russell Westbrook and Steph Curry!!!

Was it worth it? 4 extra wins in fifty loss seasons? Instead of that backcourt, we got what we have now!

mafra said:

Also, don't ever forget this: if Walsh and Dantoni stayed the course and sucked it up... Had they tanked, er... "Developed" young players in 2008 and 2009, instead of signing average vets (Harrington and Hughes for example)... If we lost just 4 more games each of those two seasons... Instead of drafting Gallo and Hill... We draft Russell Westbrook and Steph Curry!!!

Was it worth it? 4 extra wins in fifty loss seasons? Instead of that backcourt, we got what we have now!

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yep, Phil Jackson is a winner because he knows when to fold them. The worse thing to be in the NBA is a treadmilll team. The only reason to go hard this season would of been to go after Gasol and after he started hinting in the Media he really wants to stay in Memphis there was no reason to pretend.

mafra said:

Also, don't ever forget this: if Walsh and Dantoni stayed the course and sucked it up... Had they tanked, er... "Developed" young players in 2008 and 2009, instead of signing average vets (Harrington and Hughes for example)... If we lost just 4 more games each of those two seasons... Instead of drafting Gallo and Hill... We draft Russell Westbrook and Steph Curry!!!

Was it worth it? 4 extra wins in fifty loss seasons? Instead of that backcourt, we got what we have now!

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If it wasn't for D'Antoni's coaching and him being kept there so long those teams could have been much better.

At first I was against the Amar'e signing and not keeping Lee, then Amar'e did great and I was all for Amar'e and had no complaints about his contract. At first I was against the Melo trade because of how many good players they traded for Melo, and Billups who's age was in question. I changed my mind and thought in the long run adding other pieces would be better than keeping the players that were traded.

After seeing what other teams have done (OKC with youth and core) and San Antonio (keeping the core no matter the age while adding young players who fit their organization), the Knicks should have held onto Lee, Nate, Gallo, Wilson Chandler while getting a good coach, a defensive big man (Tyson Chandler on the team would have helped a lot) and a starting PG and/or SG. I would have liked to see Tyson and Melo added to that team.

Hopefully the future of the Knicks is youth, keeping guys together a long time, and having a system in place that the team understands.

RunningJumper said:

If it wasn't for D'Antoni's coaching and him being kept there so long those teams could have been much better.

At first I was against the Amar'e signing and not keeping Lee, then Amar'e did great and I was all for Amar'e and had no complaints about his contract. At first I was against the Melo trade because of how many good players they traded for Melo, and Billups who's age was in question. I changed my mind and thought in the long run adding other pieces would be better than keeping the players that were traded.

After seeing what other teams have done (OKC with youth and core) and San Antonio (keeping the core no matter the age while adding young players who fit their organization), the Knicks should have held onto Lee, Nate, Gallo, Wilson Chandler while getting a good coach, a defensive big man (Tyson Chandler on the team would have helped a lot) and a starting PG and/or SG. I would have liked to see Tyson and Melo added to that team.

Hopefully the future of the Knicks is youth, keeping guys together a long time, and having a system in place that team understands.

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Your right. A lot of people forget that the Knicks team Amare came too was meant to be a Sun's East that ran the SSOL. As much as D'antoni sucks (I still think he is the worse Head Coach between Woodson, Fisher, and himself) you can't deny that he wasn't given a chance to do what he came to NY to do because Dolan went star crazy and had to get Melo. I know the plan was to get Lebron and Bosh/Amare. However, Amare came alone and did fit into what NY was doing perfectly. He was putting MVP numbers up to the point of the Melo trade because SSOL was a perfect system for him.

the line up was

Felton
Fields
W. Chandler
Gallo
Amare

Basically surrounding Amare with shooters who could all play decent defense. Walsh/Dolan them forced Mozgov on the squad but Amare was suppose to be the 5 and when Amare played it he excelled. Hell if they had added Shump (who was and still is a better version of Fields) and Novak (to be another stretch Forward shooter) to that squad its a damn good team. It likely would of been a treadmill team due to the lack of defense, but it also could of been a consistently damn good playoff team.

Hell if Walsh hadn't flubbed the draft and took Lance instead of Rautins that team could of been a real contender. Sh*t a lot of mistakes were made then. If the knicks had been honest with themselves they should of amnestied Amare and used that money to build around Melo and Tyson. However they didn't and here we are. A team with most its cap invested into a front court that even minus Tyson doesn't fit.

However that is all 20/20 hindsight

The knicks traded almost all they had for Melo and the knicks haven't had any real depth of talent since. The one year they cheated and got a bunch of old guys for cheap to add depth the knicks were the second seed in the East. However they're age got exposed during the playoffs. If you go back to the Melo trade discussions I was even saying then that so much talent and picks were given away by the knicks in that trade. They wouldn't have a chance to get right until 2015.

With that said as much as I hated that trade, the knicks are at that 2015 deadline I called out in 2011 and they are doing exactly what they are suppose to be doing. Shedding salary, Instituting a system that Should work around Melo, and likely looking to get the complimentary pieces (through the draft, D league, FA, and trades) to make it work. The best part is if the knicks don't f*ck up their cap situation they should have around another 20 million to add a few complimentary pieces in 2016 to the core Phil will make in 2015. A lot of signs point to Dolan not being involved for the first time, and while the knicks might be sh*t now. They are making the type of moves needed to rebound as quickly as possible. Its just going to require them to suck it up and tank as horribly as possible in this season.

I was watching the Cavs/Thunder game and they have JR starting with Shump backing him up. Pretty nice deal for the Cavs to get 2 rotation players for a 2019 2nd. I am sure Griffin is ecstatic about the deal giving up nothing for 2 players. I sure hope PJ knows what he's doing.

tiger0330 said:

I was watching the Cavs/Thunder game and they have JR starting with Shump backing him up. Pretty nice deal for the Cavs to get 2 rotation players for a 2019 2nd. I am sure Griffin is ecstatic about the deal giving up nothing for 2 players. I sure hope PJ knows what he's doing.

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I really don't believe PJ knows what he is doing, or have a building plan to build from the bottom.
Tanking is not a set plan when the draft class is weak showing only one real star pick.
The signing of a 30 year old Carmelo Anthony to a 5 year contract at $124M was not a investment for a future contender team. The Lebron and D.Wade signing in offseason were the type of signing a super-star does to keep his team a contender. Melo signing was the opposite.

JRsmith is on the right team, if JR inconsistency leads to losing streaks after losing streaks, Lebron will personally end JR NBA career for half the price of his contract.

Shump on the other hand, are a young future asset for the Cavs defense, especially in the 4th qtr. for STOPS.

Kiyaman said:

I really don't believe PJ knows what he is doing, or have a building plan to build from the bottom.
Tanking is not a set plan when the draft class is weak showing only one real star pick.
The signing of a 30 year old Carmelo Anthony to a 5 year contract at $124M was not a investment for a future contender team. The Lebron and D.Wade signing in offseason were the type of signing a super-star does to keep his team a contender. Melo signing was the opposite.

JRsmith is on the right team, if JR inconsistency leads to losing streaks after losing streaks, Lebron will personally end JR NBA career for half the price of his contract.

Shump on the other hand, are a young future asset for the Cavs defense, especially in the 4th qtr. for STOPS.

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I am ok with both those guys leaving regardless if they are playing well in Cleveland. Both those guys needed a change of scenery and just like Tyson neither player seemed able to fit into the triangle. On the cavs JR is the 4th maybe 3rd option each night and thus he can likely freestyle offensively out there since nobody is game planning defensively for him. On the knicks he was the second option and breaking the triangle every chance he got.

Also lets ignore the fact he admitted he was partying all the time in NY which phil probably knew. **** I honestly believe he is playing so well so he can take his player option and go play somewhere where he can start partying again next season as well.

As for Shump, he regressed every year he was in NY and he is injury prone. If Phil didn't plan on keeping him long term with his 4 million QO better the knicks used him to get rid of JR's than just watch him walk for nothing this FA.

i'm OK with them leaving too, both were far too inconsistent to be considered future cogs in PJ's wheel of championship fodder, and losing JR's contract thus setting the scene for tanking was a choice that had to be made. Losing Shump as well and getting hardly anything in return hurts, but there are the trade exceptions that PJ will most likely use to Knicks benefit.

it's still a matter of faith in Phil to do the right thing. he's set the tank in motion, might as well let it play out, and enjoy watching JR Smith light up the cleveland night in more ways than one. If Shump excels, more power to him and his 'fro. good guy, if he gets a championship, god bless, i'll be happy to see them in the playoffs and i'll be rooting for them to do well.