Are The Knicks in a Rebuilding mode?

[abcd]

Having Marbury on the team doesn't make or break us this year man. You gotta put your fanhood bias aside. If Marbury is on the team maybe we win a few more games but in reality does that truely help us? I know we all want to win as much as humanly possible and come game time we want to win but the less games we win the better draft pick we potentially get. I don't see us being as bad as last year with or without Marbury. Just having D'Antoni should give us 10 more wins then last year. No Isiah and a real coach gives this roster as is 30 victories.

You're right. Winning less would get the Knicks a better pick. The Knicks have a winning percentage of .294, over the last 5 years, in games that Marbury has missed.

However, I prefer the Knicks to win games this year. It's not impossible for the Knicks to make the playoffs this year, although it would take a lot of work. The Hawks did it, and it only took them 37 wins. I don't think the Knicks will make the playoffs, but if they make a big trade, and they keep Marbury, I think they would have a decent shot. Getting rid of Marbury already guarantees the Knicks to have a lottery season. Chris Duhon isn't an efficient scorer, and neither is Mardy Collins. Anthony Roberson and Nate Robinson are shoot first point guards that play more like shooting guards. I don't agree with getting rid of Marbury period.

Your opinions are actually biased, because you don't like Marbury. That's why you would prefer Duhon to start next year. But I've watched Duhon play. His offense is bad, and you can't have bad offense on a run and gun team.

 

[GetRealistic]

Pretty sure i didn't say anything positive about Duhon other then hes a stop gap who will be gone in 2 years. But think what you want, we'll just have to wait until October to see what happens.

Its off topic but anybody else notice the poll question on Knicks.com? Notice who wasn't even one of the choices. And Kiya i don't mean Demetrius Nichols retro summer league jersey.

 

[Blas]

If Marc Jackson was the coach. A "rookie" coach with no professional coaching background at all, he would have had zero say in the decision making process. Of course D'Antoni has a say in the personel moves, he is an established coach who most likely said he wanted a say in personnel moves during his contract negiations.

Kiya you are flat out delusional. For a guy who claims to know so much about the Knicks you actually know very little. Where are this imaginary trades coming from? What times are knocking down the Knicks doors with trade offers for the overpaid and underachieving Stephon Marbury, Eddy Curry, Jamal Crawford, etc? This isn't a video game just because the attribute points and salaries match doesn't mean the trade goes through. You say that the Nets would have traded us the number 10 pick for Crawford get real man. That would never happen.

You always bring up that we could have traded Zach Randolph for nothing. If you read articles and other posters comments you would know what the trade offer was. We would have had to give up our FIRST ROUND PICK and take on Brevin Knights contract. Your telling me that would have been a smart trade to make in July?

I would say Donnie has done a pretty good job with what he's had to work with. Especially considering the fact its still only August and he's got till November to make a move before the season, and hes got to the trade deadline to make another move. Whats the rush we're not competing this year anyway.

1. Fired Isiah.... Obviously a good move

2. Drafted Gallinari.... Some hate it some love it, but the fact of the matter is its far better then picking Eric Gordon and until next season we really won't know who the right draft pick is.

3. Duhon... Maybe you overpaid allittle, but the fact is he's gone by 2010 so it doesn't really matter to much. He's a solid stop gap point guard for when Marbury is bought out or before we can draft a PG of the future. He's nothing flashy but neither was Charlie Ward.

4. Roberson... You play the Phoenix style you need a shooter. He's not the big name Eddie House is but he can deffinately shoot the basketball. He's super cheap so his a low risk high reward player.

5. Marbury.... Either way he's gone after this season, you buy him out or you let him play out. Thats 24 mil off the cap. Even if he does a trade for players who expire before 2010 you can live with that

6. Balkman... Awful basketball IQ and with Gallo, the money committment to Jefferies, and the emergence of Chandler he had no place on this team. You clear allittle cap space and got a second round pick.

7. Randolph... He hasn't traded him yet, but i think we all know by training camp or atleast by the dealine he'll be moved. People got to let the Clippers deal go because fact of the matter is we can get better in return, or atleast not have to give up our number one to get rid of him.

If you ask me thats a pretty solid first few months. He took over basically the worst situation in pro sports and from his first press conference he told everybody his plan was to cut money and be a player in 2010 and i gotta tell ya thats what he's doing.

AND KIYA REAL FANS KNOW SUMMER LEAGUE DOESN'T COUNT. BUT HEY I HEAR THE NUGGETS YOUNG GUYS ARE HAVING A PICKUP GAME WITH THE BULLS YOUNG GUYS. YOU'LL BE ABLE TO WATCH THE 6'8 DEMETRIUS NICHOLS VS THE 6'8 TAZMAN BALKMAN.

P.S. The Nets new stadium in Brooklyn got pushed back again, so it won't be ready for 2010.

co-sign

Great post.

As far as Marbury goes I see two things:

He is a changed man, and truly wants to be a knick for the rest of his career. He takes a huge pay cut with a new contract to make cap room for 2010. He is on board on building a dynasty for the future.

OR

He will play his heart out to raise his own value and leave the knicks for europe or another team that is willing to pay him money or go to a championship contender.

I do not think there is enough evidence recently to show which senerio will happen. Marbury seems to be on board with playing this year and for D'antoni.

Also, I actually think Walsh will keep Marbury for the rest of the year unless he plays like crap, creates drama within the team, or somebody offers us something we cannot refuse. I think Duhon is a back-up plan in case Marbury tanks.

 

[dre48ny]

If Randolph isn't traded before the season starts, I won't stress. Donnie still has at least another season and a half to move any of their 3 top money makers. ( Curry, Crawford, Randolph). I truly believe that Crawford will be moved in the future and if not he has a chance to opt out of his last year. He will look for a long term deal with another team, who knows a lot of players heading to Europe. Curry is hard to move at this point and perhaps he opts out of his last year. Then there is the Lee signing, what to do? How much does he deserve if he gets resigned. Nate??? There are some tough decisions lying ahead. If the Knicks are not intending to sign them, they are 2 great chips to package a deal and get rid of some bad contracts.

 

[Pricey]

If the Knicks did not have the 6th Pick in this draft and the great oportunity to trade the worst decision-making guard in the NBA (Jamal Crawford) on draft night, I would understand the same players who received the majority of playingtime during the last 3 seasons still being on the team in August.

The Knicks has lacked Team Chemistry for the last 4 years straight because their backcourt of Marbury, Crawford, and Q.Richardson, each have a NBA career history of "BAD Decision Making" on the court.

With a new coach and a new backcourt to start the 2008-9 season would've been the start of a rebuilding Knick team. So many losing teams became successful with this move, by getting 3 decent decision-making Guards to bring some chemistry within their 8 to 9 man rotation.
Marbury, Crawford, and Q.Richardson had 3 years together averaging 30 mpg to do this and failed miserably.

The LA Clippers and Indiana Pacers started their Rebuilding Process early in the offseason by adding a great decision-making quarterback to their roster in "Baron Davis and TJ Ford".

Portland did ouststandingly well last season with PG-Jarret Jack and PG-Blake alongside of SG-Brandon Roy chemistry (great decision-making). This upcomming season Portland will add PG-Bayless to their rotation (He was supposed to be the 4th to 6th Pick in this draft).

Houston Rockets became the best winning second-half team in the league with great decision-making PG-Alston and PG-Bobby Jackson running the show alongside of high scoring SG-T-Mac. The Rockets did this with their Franchise Center Yao sidelined with season ending injury. This upcomming season the Rockets has added one of the top ten great decision-making Point-Fowards to their rotation Ron Artest.

The Knicks did nothing to start a rebuilding process on draft night by selecting a SF player that has half the skillz as their last year 23rd draft pick SF-Wilson Chandler.

The Knicks were in dire need of PG-Bayless to replace Marbury, or SG-Gordon to replace Crawford, or C-Brook Lopez to replace Curry, from this Draft. For the Knicks not to try and trade Jamal Crawford $7 million contract on draft night for a Pick and player while his value was up, shows that Walsh & D'Antoni know little about this Knick Team and how it let No-Defense and Bad Decision Making SG/PG-Jamal Crawford lead this Knick Team the last 3 years.

Did it make much sense for the Knicks to sign two players to 2 year contracts that are players you invite to training camp to hustle for an open spot on the roster. Both signees are duplicates of "Collins & Nate", but are not as athletic or creative as Collins & Nate.

This could be the worst post i have read in a long time.

 

[abcd]

This could be the worst post i have read in a long time.

Pricey's holdin it down for the good of the team! :thumbsup: Honestly, I don't see any benefit of trading, waiving, or buying out Marbury. Waiving or buying out Marbury would mean the Knicks would have to eat his contract without getting any production in return. Waiving or buying out Marbury would also result in a championship contender signing him for less money. Trading Marbury would end up giving the Knicks longer term contracts in return, and it would possibly set back Donnie Walsh's plans of being under the cap for 2010. So basically, if the Knicks get rid of Marbury, they'll lower the team's overall winning percentage, and they'll help another team possibly get a championship. I don't see any logic in that whatsoever.

 

[metrocard]

Kiyaman normally turns out to be right, he knows what he's talking about 88% of the time.

But its way too early to judge Walsh right now. He hasn't really made any major moves yet.

 

[dre48ny]

Marbury has to be the starting PG, hands down. I don't think the team will be worst with him, on th contrary they will be worst without him.

PG: Marbury, Duhon, Collins, Roberson

SG: Crawford, Robinson, Gallinari ( His shooting and ball handling can allow him to play this postion efficiently)

SF: Chandler, Gallinari, Richardson

PF: Randolph, Lee, Jefferies, Rose

C: Curry, Lee, James, Jefferies

We're still waiting for the infamous trades but nothing yet. I'm kind of tired of all the speculation, nothing happens so I guess this is the team that goes out there. Not expecting much this season anyway except develop our young players and eventually free some cap space.

If the Knicks are able to free cap space by 2010 and land a big free agent, I believe that DLEE and Nate qualify for the "Larry Bird" rights ( 3 years same team) and can be resigned even if they go over the cap. Obviously the big free agent must be signed first and then DLee and Nate.

 

[Kiyaman]

If Marc Jackson was the coach. A "rookie" coach with no professional coaching background at all, he would have had zero say in the decision making process. Of course D'Antoni has a say in the personel moves, he is an established coach who most likely said he wanted a say in personnel moves during his contract negiations.

Kiya you are flat out delusional. For a guy who claims to know so much about the Knicks you actually know very little. Where are this imaginary trades coming from? What times are knocking down the Knicks doors with trade offers for the overpaid and underachieving Stephon Marbury, Eddy Curry, Jamal Crawford, etc? This isn't a video game just because the attribute points and salaries match doesn't mean the trade goes through. You say that the Nets would have traded us the number 10 pick for Crawford get real man. That would never happen.

You always bring up that we could have traded Zach Randolph for nothing. If you read articles and other posters comments you would know what the trade offer was. We would have had to give up our FIRST ROUND PICK and take on Brevin Knights contract. Your telling me that would have been a smart trade to make in July?

I would say Donnie has done a pretty good job with what he's had to work with. Especially considering the fact its still only August and he's got till November to make a move before the season, and hes got to the trade deadline to make another move. Whats the rush we're not competing this year anyway.

1. Fired Isiah.... Obviously a good move

2. Drafted Gallinari.... Some hate it some love it, but the fact of the matter is its far better then picking Eric Gordon and until next season we really won't know who the right draft pick is.

3. Duhon... Maybe you overpaid allittle, but the fact is he's gone by 2010 so it doesn't really matter to much. He's a solid stop gap point guard for when Marbury is bought out or before we can draft a PG of the future. He's nothing flashy but neither was Charlie Ward.

4. Roberson... You play the Phoenix style you need a shooter. He's not the big name Eddie House is but he can deffinately shoot the basketball. He's super cheap so his a low risk high reward player.

5. Marbury.... Either way he's gone after this season, you buy him out or you let him play out. Thats 24 mil off the cap. Even if he does a trade for players who expire before 2010 you can live with that

6. Balkman... Awful basketball IQ and with Gallo, the money committment to Jefferies, and the emergence of Chandler he had no place on this team. You clear allittle cap space and got a second round pick.

7. Randolph... He hasn't traded him yet, but i think we all know by training camp or atleast by the dealine he'll be moved. People got to let the Clippers deal go because fact of the matter is we can get better in return, or atleast not have to give up our number one to get rid of him.

If you ask me thats a pretty solid first few months. He took over basically the worst situation in pro sports and from his first press conference he told everybody his plan was to cut money and be a player in 2010 and i gotta tell ya thats what he's doing.

AND KIYA REAL FANS KNOW SUMMER LEAGUE DOESN'T COUNT. BUT HEY I HEAR THE NUGGETS YOUNG GUYS ARE HAVING A PICKUP GAME WITH THE BULLS YOUNG GUYS. YOU'LL BE ABLE TO WATCH THE 6'8 DEMETRIUS NICHOLS VS THE 6'8 TAZMAN BALKMAN.



P.S. The Nets new stadium in Brooklyn got pushed back again, so it won't be ready for 2010.

GetReal, I have to give it to you for getting so many members to co-sign your response to my post. But the point still remains the same that the 23 Win Knicks Backcourt and Frontcourt players are still the same as lastseason.
Their were no major leadership players added to the roster however, the coaching was changed so maybe we will see a different rotation of last season players with a plan next season.

The Fans actions within MSG next season (us) will respond best to this "Rebuilding" Post.
Hypothetically, I used the name Mark Jackson as coach and Kiki Vandeweigh as President. A long with the Knicks highest scorer last season who have a decent trading contract at $7 million per season Jamal Crawford as trade bait to get another first round pick from any team on draft night.
Ex-PG-Mark Jackson may have been a Rookie Coach next season, but it was St. Johns Rookie Mark Jackson leadership (ROY) that taught Patrick Ewing how to WIN Knick games, it was PG-Mark Jackson who average 14 assist on the Spurs, it was PG-Mark Jackson that started Reggie Miller and the Indiana Pacers into a consistent Postseason team. If Donnie Walsh dont have any confidence in those credential than the Knicks are really messed up.

My Post stated that Rookie coach Mark Jackson would have put together a Leadership of future Guards this offseason to lead the Knicks next season as a start to the rebuilding Process. I did not mention Zach or Curry in this Post. You got the Zach thing from a different Post where I feel that to get rid of Zach Randolph the Knicks will have to take a real Big Lost just like Portland did ($30 million dollars).

In November 2003 assistant coach D'Antoni became head coach, inhereted a roster of Amare, Matrix, and Joe Johnson, with PG-Marbury and backup PG-Barbosa. And he could not do anything with that roster but win one game out of every four games.
The addition of Dallas coach Nelson quick pass-first PG-Nash with Star SG-Joe Johnson in the backcourt took Leadership player SF/PF-Matrix up to the next level while taking advantage of all Amare athletic talents.
The big plus was the subtraction of Halfcourt playing Marbury and Penny selfish decision making off the roster.
I give coach D'Antoni 15% of that rosters first 66 win season.
Recall D'Antoni like PG-Banks over great decision making PG-Nash...

 

[hometheaterguy]

Having Marbury on the team doesn't make or break us this year man. You gotta put your fanhood bias aside. If Marbury is on the team maybe we win a few more games but in reality does that truely help us? I know we all want to win as much as humanly possible and come game time we want to win but the less games we win the better draft pick we potentially get. I don't see us being as bad as last year with or without Marbury. Just having D'Antoni should give us 10 more wins then last year. No Isiah and a real coach gives this roster as is 30 victories.

You're right. Winning less would get the Knicks a better pick. The Knicks have a winning percentage of .294, over the last 5 years, in games that Marbury has missed.

However, I prefer the Knicks to win games this year. It's not impossible for the Knicks to make the playoffs this year, although it would take a lot of work. The Hawks did it, and it only took them 37 wins. I don't think the Knicks will make the playoffs, but if they make a big trade, and they keep Marbury, I think they would have a decent shot. Getting rid of Marbury already guarantees the Knicks to have a lottery season. Chris Duhon isn't an efficient scorer, and neither is Mardy Collins. Anthony Roberson and Nate Robinson are shoot first point guards that play more like shooting guards. I don't agree with getting rid of Marbury period.

Your opinions are actually biased, because you don't like Marbury. That's why you would prefer Duhon to start next year. But I've watched Duhon play. His offense is bad, and you can't have bad offense on a run and gun team.

What in all that is holy gives anyone any inclination that the Knicks can go to the playoffs this season?!?!?!?!?! We have 98% of the same team with no addition of an impact player. I swear you guys crack me up some times! I have seen the same post for the last few years, "We have a chance this season"... I remember when everyone jumped for joy when Isiah lambasted Brown; everyone posted how Isiah would bring out the strengths of this team. How Brown didn't know what he was doing with all the roster changes, Isiah actually beat Brown's number by the way, and Isiah would play a more "Up Tempo" style that was better fitting this roster.... How did that work out for you?????? Now, Mike D will come in with his "Up-Tempo" style and do something that Brown and Isiah couldn't do. Brown and Isiah could not do anything with this roster, Isiah added Randolph and still nothing. What makes anyone think Mike D can magically make the players do something they are incapable of doing?
The Knicks need to get rid of Randolph and/or Curry, but both can not work! They need to use Marbury's contract to either land 1 or 2 key players or just let it expire and dump his ass on the first plane out of NY!!!
As far as Nate and Lee, either sign Lee or use both for a trade but DO NOT bring back Nate AKA Mini-Marbury!!!
I want the Knicks to tank this season and hopefully land a top 3 pick that they could use to package a trade to get rid of either Randolph or Curry or bring in a key player. If Mike D and Walsh were smart, they would use this season to try to increase the value of Randolph, Curry and Crawford. I actually like Crawford as a sixth man type and hope that they can get him into that role but if he wants to be the man, then try to trade him. Like I said, use this year to showcase these guys and raise their value so you can dump them!!

 

[abcd]

I didn't say the Knicks were going to the playoffs. I said that if the Knicks make a major trade and if they keep Marbury, they'll have a chance to make it. Read people's posts more carefully next time, before responding.

I also said that the Knicks are guaranteed to be a lottery team next season, if Chris Duhon becomes our starting point guard. Why? Because he's not even half the player that Marbury is. He's a 6 point, 4 assist role player that is most productive off the bench, not in the starting lineup. Why else? He would be in the same starting lineup with Eddy Curry(a complete scrub).

Jamal Crawford's trade value is as high as it could possibly be. He averaged 20 and 5, last season. If Walsh wants to trade Crawford, now's the time to do it.

Eddy Curry is never going to average 19 and 7 again, so his trade value won't ever get elevated. Walsh needs to package Curry with Nate Robinson or David Lee as soon as possible. Robinson and Lee are good assets to this team, but if it means getting rid of Curry, it's worth moving either one of them.

Donnie Walsh has connections with the Pacers and he knows Larry Bird. He might be able to squeeze some expiring contracts for Curry or Randolph(preferably Curry).

 

[Oldtimer]

Rebuilding.

When you can only win 23 games, you had better be rebuilding.

The question is not whether the Knicks are in rebuilding mode, but whether during the rebuilding they will be competitive. I think it is going to take awhile.

Whom do we see still with the Knicks in 2010? The only contracts - player option or guaranteed - for 2010 are Z-Bo's at $17.3M, Curry's at $11.3M, Crawford's at $10M, and Jefferies at $6.9M. It appears that a majority of the posters do not want to see any of them in 2010 and I am one of the majority. Perhaps Crawford has a chance in D'Antoni's system.

Z-Bo's 2010 contract is just too large if there is a desire to have 2010 cap space. If the rumors about Curry's conditioning are true -- and history suggests they are - his game will hardly blossom under D'Antoni. He should be played extensively, just to embarrass him. He will be trailing on every play. Has he ever actually gotten a contested rebound? How many just fall into his hands or are defensive rebounds of missed foul shots where he is given position?

Hopefully Chandler and Gallinari will still be around in 2010. Nate and Lee will be due new contracts in 2010 or they will be gone. I do not see a Knick future for Q-Rich or Collins - at least after 2009.

So we had better be rebuilding.

 

[donchris]

The responsible thing to do is to wait it out. Knicks fans are notoriously inpatient and expect immediate results. Anyone that thought the bullshit offer the Clippers made for Randolph should have been taking is foolish. The Nuggets are a laughingstock because of that trade. Don't marvel at the stupidity of others. It's nothing to inspire to.

In time our front court will be broken up, for the right deal.

Crawford isn't a play maker. Stop the witch hunt. If you love Marbury a common tactic is to use Crawford as a scapegoat. Individually both Crawford and Marbury would be a good fit for D'Antoni's style, but together they are like Curry/Randolph.

 

[StEpHoN_mArBuRy]

Damn we talking tanking the season already in the month of August??? I mean I know we are in rebuilding mode I but I won't stand to see any team of mines purposely losing games.

 

[abcd]

Damn we talking tanking the season already in the month of August??? I mean I know we are in rebuilding mode I but I won't stand to see any team of mines purposely losing games.

I know what you mean. As a Knick fan, I always want the team to do good, no matter what. I hope the 2008-2009 Knicks play hard, because tanking isn't really necessary.

People always talk about trying to get the top pick in the draft, but even if the Knicks do lose on purpose, they aren't guaranteed anything. Look at what happened this year. The Knicks won 23 games, yet they still only got the 6th overall pick. The Bulls(man I hate them) had 33 wins, and they ended up getting the #1 overall pick.

I think the Knicks should just play hard and try to win as much as they can. Tanking will only hurt the team's confidence, fan's patience, D'Antoni and Walsh will be highly criticized, and the player's overall trade value will remain the same as it was last year.

 

[Kiyaman]

Damn we talking tanking the season already in the month of August??? I mean I know we are in rebuilding mode I but I won't stand to see any team of mines purposely losing games.

I know what you mean. As a Knick fan, I always want the team to do good, no matter what. I hope the 2008-2009 Knicks play hard, because tanking isn't really necessary.

People always talk about trying to get the top pick in the draft, but even if the Knicks do lose on purpose, they aren't guaranteed anything. Look at what happened this year. The Knicks won 23 games, yet they still only got the 6th overall pick. The Bulls(man I hate them) had 33 wins, and they ended up getting the #1 overall pick.

I think the Knicks should just play hard and try to win as much as they can. Tanking will only hurt the team's confidence, fan's patience, D'Antoni and Walsh will be highly criticized, and the player's overall trade value will remain the same as it was last year.

I dont think members are really talking about Tanking the Season but the state of where the Knicks roster for the 2008-9 season lies in August says very little improvement from the last two seasons.

The Knicks needed a President G.M. that was going to make moves like the Portland Jail Blazers Keven Pritchard, who used to pick-up all the leagues High Value Garbage Cancer players season after season.
Portland Blazers hired coach McMillian whom it seems Keven Pritchard had and open ear to listen too. And we seen Cancer Players being shipped out of Portland in a hurry (Ratliff, Maglore, LaFrentz, ect.). He traded three undecipline cancer players Dickau, Fred Jones, and Zach for one cancer player Francis, and bought Francis out for a little more than half of Zach contract $30 million dollars.
Last season the Portland Blazers only had one Cancer contract player signed to their roster (Darius Miles) who happen to catch a mystery season injury two weeks before training camp. And throughout the entire 2007-8 season Darius Miles never rehab any where near the Portland Team like rookie Oden did.

For those of us Knick-Fans who dont believe the Knicks have a half of roster full of undecipline selfish cancer players on their team in August 2008, should get their B-Ball IQ tested ASAP.


This is what I think about Donnie Walsh so-call 2010 plan:

In the NBA their are only three teams that can tank a season consecutively for 3 to 4 seasons straight and still average a copacity crowd of 18,000 fans in their stadium (Knicks, Boston, and Lakers).
The Knicks averaged 19,000. fans in the last decade (10 years straight).
If you think Donnie Walsh and D'Antoni dont have knowledge of this and will take full advantage of this untill the season of their final contract end then.......