Derek Fisher Fired.

mafra

Legend
SOME GOOD NEWS: Stephen A Smith, in his spot on the Michael Kay Show, just tossed out a golden nugget for us diehards... Word in L.A., according to Kay, is that Jax is unhappy in NY (shocker)...

Smith said this isn't necessarily the case... The real truth is that his gal, Jenny, is about to fire her brother... This opens the door for Phil to return to L.A. and run the Lakers.

Of course, Dolan would be happy to let Phil be the fall guy... Save himself some money... After all, he wanted him to coach.... was convinced to let him run the front office.

Dolan also knows a top 5 HC is sitting out there, who is on record saying he would crawl to NY to run the Knicks... Let Phil go back to the West Coast... HIRE Thibideau... Melo sees it all going South and asks for a trade... Knicks can start to rebuild from the ground up with a legit HC and (hopefully) a cornerstone type player (KP).

I GUARANTEE... even without Melo, and this same roster... sprinkle in a decent free agent or two... This would have this roster in the playoffs NEXT YEAR.

PLEASE DOLAN... SEE THE WRITING... Anyway... lets hope to hear word from Cali that a shakeup just occurred in the LAK front office..
 

tiger0330

Legend
Remember that RAMBIS did a great job in the few games that Fisher was absent. I think he can do an excellent job here.
I want to see marked improvement from Porzingis and Grant while Rambis is the coach .

With Thibs as the coach no question you would see KP develop faster under Thibs than Fish, he was big in developing Yao. Story was he was training Yao during the summer and Yao wanted a break from the grind that Thibs was putting him through so he took a men's room break and took too long, Thibs came in looking for him saying "Yao come on and hurry up we got to finish these drills". T-Mac loved to tell that story.
 

mafra

Legend
I want to see marked improvement from Porzingis and Grant while Rambis is the coach .

With Thibs as the coach no question you would see KP develop faster under Thibs than Fish, he was big in developing Yao. Story was he was training Yao during the summer and Yao wanted a break from the grind that Thibs was putting him through so he took a men's room break and took too long, Thibs came in looking for him saying "Yao come on and hurry up we got to finish these drills". T-Mac loved to tell that story.


I can't blame Dolan for not dumping JAX... Too much money to swallow... BUT... I WOULD DEMAND that he hires Thibbs... Fans and city would love it... and it might force Jax to ask for his release... then work out something with him... Of course, if the LA thing goes down... that helps NYK.

NOW... I don't think Melo is the problem right now... He's been all about the team... We have cap space... have no draft pick... blah blah... I only would purse a trade b/c it would help bring in an asset (or 2) for the future...

But. If we hire Thibbs... we aint gonna stink next year anyway.... So, they idea to get Melo out of here so we can "tank" next year to pair another lottery pick with KP? Not likely, although that would probably be best.

I would love to see Thibbs work with Melo, and this roster, and see if a good HC, NYC-MSG, KP & Melo could attract free agent help...
 

tiger0330

Legend
Here's his press conference.

http://www.nba.com/knicks/video/teams/knicks/2016/02/08/1454957101763-160208phil-hd-720p.mov-280072



Some things to take away...


- When asked about Thibs he was kind of annoyed(his not a candidate)

- Hated the Brooklyn loss without Melo

- Liked the way the team looked in games without Melo and thought November was a really good showing of potential in this system

- Brought up that calls sometimes don't a go a team's way but it's part of basketball and something that should be overcome(What I've sad over and over)

- Has the instinct to coach but will not coach this team

- Will be open for business during the deadline but our roster is not desirable

- Fisher did not mesh well with the veteran coaches

- Likes Rambis and feels confident he'll bring more fun to the environment

- Melo has a no trade clause and it's no secret(that was a lowkey jab) when asked about taking him off the table of trade talks

- 9 of 10 games resulting in losses and lack of developing the players to play as a unit effectively in this system with starts and finishing(Fisher's death null)

- Ha Ha he'd prefer Melo take it real chill during All-Star weekend nd expects Ty Lue to not do him dirty...lol
Ruling out the most qualified coach out of all the names I've heard and Thibs supposedly wanting the Knicks job as well. Phil Jackson can take the same plane back to LA with DFish for all I care, he's an idiot.
 

pat

Starter
PLEASE DOLAN... SEE THE WRITING... Anyway... lets hope to hear word from Cali that a shakeup just occurred in the LAK front office..

Just gossip. And you said it yourself: As long as Dolan is around, this will be a losing team. We had decades of shake-ups by now. To no avail. This team needs consistency and an owner who has nothing to do with the team but deep pockets.

And does anybody have Hornaczek on the radar? I think he did a great job in the Western Conference until front office turned his sub-par team which he had hitting on all cylinders into a nightmare of a roster. I think he is very capable.

And I can see why Thibs is not PJ's man. He is the kind of grinder that sucks the life out of every team after a while. It might work for a team which only needs a strong nosed defense to get them over the hump to win it all, a team which has an offense which is already well established. He has not struck me as a rebuilder and player developer; two of the more important things which need to happen in NY. He would have been the man for the early 1990s Knicks (even though I doubt they could have played any harder on defense), but it does not seem like a good fit with what we got, especially KP.
 
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tiger0330

Legend
Just listened to Woj on Yahoo and he says the 5 game losing streak (9/10) along with losing support of some of the players who weren't happy with playing time, not knowing their roles etc. and Fish straying too far away from the principles of the triangle were the reasons he got canned. Also mentioned there were some aspirations of making the playoffs, and the latest losing streak dashing those hopes, Fish saying making the playoffs was not a priority probably didn't help his cause.

They also mention Walton as a leading candidate to be the next HC and with PJ firmly still in the triangle camp odd's are it's going to be one of Phil's guys that's going to be the next HC. Only way they bring Walton here is if they give him a similar deal to Fishers, 25M/5yr guaranteed deal and if I was Dolan I'd put my foot down and refuse to pay it after Fisher. If Walton turns it down don't rule out Brian Shaw imo.
 
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donchris

Next season, keep waiting
I'm old school so I don't embrace bringing on unproven head coaches, though sometimes it can work (Mark Jackson). Phil is married to the triangle which I think will hurt the team if they don't get the right personnel. If you must have a triangle aficionado we're better off sticking with Kurt Rambis. Shaw lost the locker room in Denver, he shouldn't even be in consideration. Walton is a smart kid but he doesn't have much of a resume. How about we ditch the triangle and bring in Tom Tibs or Mark Jackson?
 

tiger0330

Legend
Just gossip. And you said it yourself: As long as Dolan is around, this will be a losing team. We had decades of shake-ups by now. To no avail. This team needs consistency and an owner who has nothing to do with the team but deep pockets.

And does anybody have Hornaczek on the radar? I think he did a great job in the Western Conference until front office turned his sub-par team which he had hitting on all cylinders into a nightmare of a roster. I think he is very capable.

And I can see why Thibs is not PJ's man. He is the kind of grinder that sucks the life out of every team after a while. It might work for a team which only needs a strong nosed defense to get them over the hump to win it all, a team which has an offense which is already well established. He has not struck me as a rebuilder and player developer; two of the more important things which need to happen in NY. He would have been the man for the early 1990s Knicks (even though I doubt they could have played any harder on defense), but it does not seem like a good fit with what we got, especially KP.
 

tiger0330

Legend
More info on the firing, seems the brass probably Rambis telling PJ that Fisher wasn't working the guys hard enough to make them an effective unit.

Rambis has been working with Lopez and Rolo's improvement is a result of Rambis work with Rolo. Doesn't look like KP got the same attention but starting today Rambis is spending more time with KP.

I saw Rambis said he wants to try to get this team back on the playoff track. The Fisher the playoffs aren't important thing I don't think went over real well with PJ.

In Kurt Rambis, Jackson Hopes to Find Coaching Spirit He Didn't Find in Fisher
by Kevin Ding, bleacherreport.comFebruary 8

Whatever Phil Jackson doesn't know about running an NBA front office, he absolutely does know about coaching.

So Jackson fired Derek Fisher as New York Knicks head coach on Monday morning in an effort to get the foundation of his business model right?and give the teaching opportunity to another of his disciples: Kurt Rambis.

Rambis has a real opportunity in New York, no matter his negative image from bombing as the head coach of the Minnesota Timberwolves from 2009-11.

And what an epic stage this Knicks job is.

Rambis is one of Jackson's closest friends in the world, for one.

Jackson also knows that Rambis knows how to coach. The two of them have had private discussions about what the Knicks weren't getting from Fisher, a coaching newbie who struggled to find a voice other than former player/leader.

Fisher, 41, didn't practice this unproven group long or hard enough, didn't teach or stress enough defense and didn't know how to inspire players after they grew desensitized to his speech-making skills.

Fisher sketchily leaving the team during training camp and getting into an altercation with Matt Barnes over a woman Fisher reportedly was dating?and misleading team officials in the process?also shook the trust and communication that Jackson wanted as lynchpins of his Knicks leadership group.


It didn't get Fisher fired, but Jackson went into this hoping for a glowing mentor relationship with an open exchange of ideas and grounded in real honesty. Jackson probably undermined that some himself by trying to be respectfully hands-off so Fisher was secure in his job, but Fisher clearly didn't bring an open learner's mind to this and warm Jackson's heart either.

Fisher has undeniable leadership skills, but Jackson just didn't see sufficient growth in his coaching skills?an area where Jackson is perhaps the foremost expert in the world.

So here is the much-maligned Rambis, presumed by the masses to be nothing more than a bespectacled seat-warmer for someone the way he actually was for Jackson with the Lakers in 1999.

In the years since, though, Rambis has made Jackson a true believer in how well Rambis knows the game?and the philosophies about the game that made Jackson great. The question is whether Rambis has the leadership skills to make it all apply.

Rambis, who turns 58 later this month, went 32-132 as Timberwolves coach. It was so horrible that he fell off the radar even for recycled head coaches.

The quirky Rambis failed to convey any sense of command while in Minnesota, but looking back on the people's help he most needed is interesting.

Then-general manager David Kahn has been revealed to be the ultimate clown of sports executives in the way he tried to justify drafting Jonny Flynn over Stephen Curry or Wesley Johnson over DeMarcus Cousins?or all the failed moves after those.

Kevin Love, the top player Rambis couldn't bond with, has shown to be lacking in the intangibles that make a good team leader or even No. 1 superstar.

Rambis, though, still carries stigma from that disaster to the point that people overlook his success as Pat Riley's player, Jackson's assistant and even someone willing to go learn as Mike D'Antoni's assistant with the Lakers in 2013-14.

There's a reason Jackson made Rambis one of the highest-paid associate head coaches in the NBA to help Fisher.

Everyone's assumption is that Jackson is a sage with a grand plan and he's not an interim-thinking guy. Well, his motto has always been to stay in the moment?and that's his plan here.

Give Rambis a chance to earn the job if he can reach the players, win the winnable games Fisher left on the table and maybe rally the Knicks from five games out of the Eastern Conference playoff picture.

If not, then maybe Luke Walton (not at all an East Coast guy, though) or Brian Shaw (an immediate option as a Rambis assistant, actually) become stronger considerations. Tom Thibodeau, a proven excellent coach, is less of an option because of his lack of relationship with Jackson.

Fisher was a rising son in Jackson's basketball family, but Jackson had to be honest with himself when he didn't see Fisher's ego shrinking properly to move from heralded politician to simple teacher.

The formerly .500 Knicks' listless play for chunks of the past 10 games showed Jackson that the players needed someone sharper technically?even just in having a stabler rotation to get them to know their roles and play together better.

Jackson believes in Rambis' ability in that area. "I have complete confidence in his ability to coach this team," he said at a press conference Monday.

Starting immediately, Rambis will also work more hands-on with prized prospect Kristaps Porzingis. Rambis' strength is teaching big men, and he has had a major role in center Robin Lopez's better-than-expected work for the Knicks.

Yet more than a change in Porzingis or jump-starting a hobbled Carmelo Anthony (sore knee), Jackson is in search of something simpler: a group of guys eager to play hard and play the right way.

Always embracing the idea of being a contrarian, and too respectful of the profession to want a coaching carousel with his team, the deeply loyal Jackson would love it if Rambis could rise from the dregs of the coaching business to steal the show on Broadway.
 

mafra

Legend
?We had a line of communication. A lot of times it was one way and I understand that,? he said. ?A lot of times it was a conversation was written through e-mail and things like that and a lot of times, he?d send back with a short note like ?Got it? or ?Will get on it,? whatever.?

?What sometimes happened is what you wanted to get done doesn?t get done in a situation where you?re teaching, you?re coaching, you?re drilling players,? Jackson added. ?So that?s where I think maybe my part is that I may not have communicated enough in that area and actually told him in our (firing meeting Monday) I may not have mentored you as well as I could have.?

------

DF's ego wouldn't have him become a teacher? Thought being a leader and politician was enough? Geez. The Barnes incident exposed him, then he lied, then failed to coach the team.... Good riddance!
 
The workaholic head coach Tom Thibodeau and the workaholic budding superstar Kristaps Porzingis are a match made in heaven. Rambis gets a half season audition and if he doesn't impress and we pass on Thibodeau this offseason, we deserve what we get.
 

Tkf

Benchwarmer
Just gossip. And you said it yourself: As long as Dolan is around, this will be a losing team. We had decades of shake-ups by now. To no avail. This team needs consistency and an owner who has nothing to do with the team but deep pockets.

And does anybody have Hornaczek on the radar? I think he did a great job in the Western Conference until front office turned his sub-par team which he had hitting on all cylinders into a nightmare of a roster. I think he is very capable.

And I can see why Thibs is not PJ's man. He is the kind of grinder that sucks the life out of every team after a while. It might work for a team which only needs a strong nosed defense to get them over the hump to win it all, a team which has an offense which is already well established. He has not struck me as a rebuilder and player developer; two of the more important things which need to happen in NY. He would have been the man for the early 1990s Knicks (even though I doubt they could have played any harder on defense), but it does not seem like a good fit with what we got, especially KP.

you make some good points pat..
 
Just gossip. And you said it yourself: As long as Dolan is around, this will be a losing team. We had decades of shake-ups by now. To no avail. This team needs consistency and an owner who has nothing to do with the team but deep pockets.

And does anybody have Hornaczek on the radar? I think he did a great job in the Western Conference until front office turned his sub-par team which he had hitting on all cylinders into a nightmare of a roster. I think he is very capable.

And I can see why Thibs is not PJ's man. He is the kind of grinder that sucks the life out of every team after a while. It might work for a team which only needs a strong nosed defense to get them over the hump to win it all, a team which has an offense which is already well established. He has not struck me as a rebuilder and player developer; two of the more important things which need to happen in NY. He would have been the man for the early 1990s Knicks (even though I doubt they could have played any harder on defense), but it does not seem like a good fit with what we got, especially KP.

Pat Riley was the ultimate grinder. Some say having him as a head coach took years off your career, but man, did teams he coach run circles around other teams in the 4th quarter. Thibodeau's teams tended to be similarly strong in the 4th quarter. That said, Hornaczek is an interesting option.
 

mafra

Legend
Pat Riley was the ultimate grinder. Some say having him as a head coach took years off your career, but man, did teams he coach run circles around other teams in the 4th quarter. Thibodeau's teams tended to be similarly strong in the 4th quarter. That said, Hornaczek is an interesting option.

Riley was the penultimate coach; A master motivator who groomed and developed talent, and catered his system to his players. When he had Magic, Worthy, Kareem, it was fastbreak showtime; when he came to NY, with Oakley and Ewing it was Time to grind down opponent with physical handchecking, grit, and toughness.

This is why this obsession to the triangle is hippy, new age nonsense... We shall soon discover what PJ wants more: Win at all costs or win his way...

The man living in the moment, who espouses a doctrine to abandon the greedy self, Will ultimately prove to be all ego if he adheres to triangle system to the detriment of this team.
 

tiger0330

Legend
Riley was the penultimate coach; A master motivator who groomed and developed talent, and catered his system to his players. When he had Magic, Worthy, Kareem, it was fastbreak showtime; when he came to NY, with Oakley and Ewing it was Time to grind down opponent with physical handchecking, grit, and toughness.

This is why this obsession to the triangle is hippy, new age nonsense... We shall soon discover what PJ wants more: Win at all costs or win his way...

The man living in the moment, who espouses a doctrine to abandon the greedy self, Will ultimately prove to be all ego if he adheres to triangle system to the detriment of this team.
If the Knicks had managed to keep Riley we wouldn't be looking at nearly 50 years w/o a championship. One of the great coaches and executives in the NBA.

The 15M/5yr deal that he turned down from Checketts seems like chicken feed when compared to what Dolan gave Phil and Fisher.
 
If the Knicks had managed to keep Riley we wouldn't be looking at nearly 50 years w/o a championship. One of the great coaches and executives in the NBA.

The 15M/5yr deal that he turned down from Checketts seems like chicken feed when compared to what Dolan gave Phil and Fisher.

I get your point, Tiger, but c'mon, you can't side with Riley in all that. Dude was a scumbag. He demanded something like a 10 to 15 percent ownership in the team, which I think is what he got with Miami. The difference being that the Knicks at the same time were worth probably 10 times what the Heat were worth. Plus, the Heat ended up giving him a 40 million dollar deal. This was 20+ years ago. The 15 million offered by the Knicks was a huge deal for a coach back then. Yeah, in retrospect, if the only goal was to win a championship it would have worked out much better by keeping Riley, but at some point, they were just being held ransom by the guy. There is a reason why the NBA forced the Heat to give the Knicks money and a 1st round pick from that mess.
 

The Dragon

Benchwarmer
Guys, when do you think we will bring the new coach? do you think Kurt will finish the reminder of the season?

I thought Tom is perfect for us, but from your comments above, it seems you don't think so? but isn't Defense is what we are lacking? when we played defense the proper way, we won the games this season right?
 
Guys, when do you think we will bring the new coach? do you think Kurt will finish the reminder of the season?

I thought Tom is perfect for us, but from your comments above, it seems you don't think so? but isn't Defense is what we are lacking? when we played defense the proper way, we won the games this season right?

Tom Thibodeau had a 255 - 139 record in his 5 years in Chicago despite consistent major player injury issues through most of his seasons. He is a guy fans get accustomed to questioning because they are wondering why their team can't win a championship despite making the playoffs as a high seed every year. We would kill to have our worst problem be why can't we win a championship despite being a high seed every year.

If PJ would rather have some slouch like Brian Shaw than Thibodeau then it is time for Dolan to grow a pair and get rid of PJ.
 

The Dragon

Benchwarmer
Well, aside form Derek Fisher, all PJ's work is fine so far, and even when he got Derek, he was aiming at Steve first which was good.
i believe PJ will do the right thing, and i hate to see another young coach in NY. how about JVG? will he coach again?
 

tiger0330

Legend
I get your point, Tiger, but c'mon, you can't side with Riley in all that. Dude was a scumbag. He demanded something like a 10 to 15 percent ownership in the team, which I think is what he got with Miami. The difference being that the Knicks at the same time were worth probably 10 times what the Heat were worth. Plus, the Heat ended up giving him a 40 million dollar deal. This was 20+ years ago. The 15 million offered by the Knicks was a huge deal for a coach back then. Yeah, in retrospect, if the only goal was to win a championship it would have worked out much better by keeping Riley, but at some point, they were just being held ransom by the guy. There is a reason why the NBA forced the Heat to give the Knicks money and a 1st round pick from that mess.
Might have been worth it giving Riley what he wanted with all the money the Knicks have spent over the yrs trying to bring a winning team and title to NY.

The ownership demands were probably too much though, Riley knew he had a bird in hand with the Miami offer making him high handed in his dealings with the Knicks so it was probably the right decision to let him go since no offer the Knicks could have made could match his Miami deal. Though I wonder if he would have accepted a dual role of coach and GM since that was one of his demands but the Knicks never offered more than a coaching job.
 
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