That was on point!:beer:This is from a blog.
We all watched. We all get it. Not a lot I can add for you, not at this point in the season. But if you are a person who looks at a game where the Knicks fought and fought and damn near beat the Celtics without Amar?e ****ing Stoudemire (not to mention Chauncey Billups) and goes looking for a scapegoat, I don?t have anything for you. Go write your own blog. You want to blame Jared Jeffries? How did you feel when he shut Rondo down? How did you feel when he scored the would be game winning bucket? What do you think Timo Mozgov would have done when he caught that ball?
Think about life for a second. Take a minute. Ever fail a test? Ever lose the girl you love? Was there something wrong with you? Did you suck?
No, you didn?t. That was a tremendous Knicks performance. Carmelo Anthony and a bunch of no luck pound puppies doing the best they could. Appreciate that shit.
Game 2 - Unforgivable Coaching Errors
- Thread starter nixon7
- Start date
That was on point!:beer:
STAT1
Starter
I don't think Jeffries deserves the brunt of the blame, I think it goes on the head coach for having him guarding KG on that last defensive possession. On the final offensive play, Jeffries passing off to a cutting Bill Walker was by design it was the play MDA had drawn up, I don't put that on Jeffries either. Drawing up a play that had Melo dishing off to Jeffries down low when the Celtics rushed to double team him on the final offensive possession & having Jeffries try & dump off to a cutting Bill Walker was highly flawed from the get go. That's on MDA not on Jeffries. I do however wish Jeffries would have had the awareness to check off that play once he saw KG had rotated & saw Toney Douglas with his arm raised in the air wide open in the corner beyond the 3 pt line, but when he's been a completely inept offensive player for his entire NBA career I don't expect him to make such reads.Originally Posted by StreetDreams21
You want to blame Jared Jeffries? How did you feel when he shut Rondo down? How did you feel when he scored the would be game winning bucket? What do you think Timo Mozgov would have done when he caught that ball?
Think about life for a second. Take a minute. Ever fail a test? Ever lose the girl you love? Was there something wrong with you? Did you suck?
No, you didn’t. That was a tremendous Knicks performance. Carmelo Anthony and a bunch of no luck pound puppies doing the best they could. Appreciate that shit.
But I do agree we should be proud of the effort this team put forth in this game especially w/o STAT & Chauncey they showed tremendous heart to even make it a game in the closing seconds. Melo deserves the brunt of the credit for that & believe me that shit is very much appreciated.
Don't misunderstand
It would be easy if Mike D'Antoni were simply a lousy coach. That was not what I was saying. Clearly the players like him. Clearly he has them playing well overall, especially defensively when no one thought he could even coach defense. Clearly his players are getting better over time, a sign of a good practice coach.
However, he does make some strange decisions, including:
1) Why did Fields only get 14 minutes when he seemed to be playing better in game 2?
2) Why did they run a play for Walker with the game on the line, and he had gone 0-11; granted he was playing well defensively up until then, but this was a key offensive sequence with the shot-clock turned off? Why was Walker even in the game at that point?
3) Why not use Turiaf more, in particular defensively against Garnett with 19 seconds left, and/or offensively with 13 seconds left?
4) Why no Sheldon WIlliams, especially when Stoudamire goes down, good enough to start for Denver this year, but not to play at all for the Knicks? And your only real post-up player with Stoudamire and Billups out, and Turiaf on the bench?
5) Why is no one teaching Douglas how to use glass (high-percentage) rather than a low-percentage floater (he seems particularly bad at) when he penetrates against a shot-blocker?
6) Why not try Derrick Brown, especially with Billups out, maybe he can guard Rondo, maybe he can break down Celtics D and dish, especially when Douglas is in foul trouble?
All this in addition to consistently bad end-of-game management - a huge flaw for a big time coach - that he does not seem to be working on improving, or finding an assistant coach to help him with.
I do not blame Jeffries or Walker, I question why they are in game in that situation (13 sec left). It was not even a particularly bad play to run, just more effective with Turiaf and Fields than Jeffries and Walker.
I do not blame Carmelo, I question why not take him out of the game in a must-foul immediately situation, when he has four fouls, is tired, and you will presumably need him to play the full overtime, if you manage to tie the game.
It would be easy if Mike D'Antoni were simply a lousy coach. That was not what I was saying. Clearly the players like him. Clearly he has them playing well overall, especially defensively when no one thought he could even coach defense. Clearly his players are getting better over time, a sign of a good practice coach.
However, he does make some strange decisions, including:
1) Why did Fields only get 14 minutes when he seemed to be playing better in game 2?
2) Why did they run a play for Walker with the game on the line, and he had gone 0-11; granted he was playing well defensively up until then, but this was a key offensive sequence with the shot-clock turned off? Why was Walker even in the game at that point?
3) Why not use Turiaf more, in particular defensively against Garnett with 19 seconds left, and/or offensively with 13 seconds left?
4) Why no Sheldon WIlliams, especially when Stoudamire goes down, good enough to start for Denver this year, but not to play at all for the Knicks? And your only real post-up player with Stoudamire and Billups out, and Turiaf on the bench?
5) Why is no one teaching Douglas how to use glass (high-percentage) rather than a low-percentage floater (he seems particularly bad at) when he penetrates against a shot-blocker?
6) Why not try Derrick Brown, especially with Billups out, maybe he can guard Rondo, maybe he can break down Celtics D and dish, especially when Douglas is in foul trouble?
All this in addition to consistently bad end-of-game management - a huge flaw for a big time coach - that he does not seem to be working on improving, or finding an assistant coach to help him with.
I do not blame Jeffries or Walker, I question why they are in game in that situation (13 sec left). It was not even a particularly bad play to run, just more effective with Turiaf and Fields than Jeffries and Walker.
I do not blame Carmelo, I question why not take him out of the game in a must-foul immediately situation, when he has four fouls, is tired, and you will presumably need him to play the full overtime, if you manage to tie the game.
JoHnNyBoXeR
Benchwarmer
Hey, after amare goes out.. Should we even be in the game at the end?? The Knicks played there asses off!! If STAT is in that game we win!! Boston has 3 sure fire Hall of famerrs who can D up like no other team.. I blame the last inbounds on Melo just being absolutley exhausted!! Mike is a good coach I don't put the blame on him at all
Stat was hurt from the beginning of the game and it was noticeable.. But we have STAT in that 4th quarter we get that last bucket because Stat is in jeffries place.. And Stat showed just how good he is cuz even when Boston doubles and triples him he still drives and posterizes there asses .. Unbelievable!
Stat was hurt from the beginning of the game and it was noticeable.. But we have STAT in that 4th quarter we get that last bucket because Stat is in jeffries place.. And Stat showed just how good he is cuz even when Boston doubles and triples him he still drives and posterizes there asses .. Unbelievable!
DontForgetDerekHarper
Starter
yeah cant blame coach, cant blame jefferies
first time this year u can actually just say we were unfortunate, to lose our leader who was playing hurt to begin with 2-9 from the field to start.
this was a roll of the dice game and every one should relax on the blame game
dantoni did his best to try and overcome an 0-11 game by walker
5-16 game from douglas and injuries to his best in game floor leaders.
including back to back games spending the last 2 mins in a tie ball game with out your veteran starting PG.
and dont blame jefferies
check the box score people
he was literally our second best player on the floor last night.
5-7 from the field 10 pnts 6 boards with atleast 3 tip backs to hold onto posessions and 2 blocks.
thats better than glen davis for christ sakes and people sweat that dude like hes the second coming.
first time this year u can actually just say we were unfortunate, to lose our leader who was playing hurt to begin with 2-9 from the field to start.
this was a roll of the dice game and every one should relax on the blame game
dantoni did his best to try and overcome an 0-11 game by walker
5-16 game from douglas and injuries to his best in game floor leaders.
including back to back games spending the last 2 mins in a tie ball game with out your veteran starting PG.
and dont blame jefferies
check the box score people
he was literally our second best player on the floor last night.
5-7 from the field 10 pnts 6 boards with atleast 3 tip backs to hold onto posessions and 2 blocks.
thats better than glen davis for christ sakes and people sweat that dude like hes the second coming.
STAT1
Starter
MDA did his best to try & overcome an 0 for 11 game by Walker by playing him 32 minutes? Wow, if you really think you can't blame the coach for that decision I don't know what else to say.
mafra
Legend
D'antoni said himself after Game-1 that he puts the ball in 'Melo's hand (best closer in NBA last decade) and trusts he'll make the right decision.
I feel MD's duty last night... if not design a play to put Anthony in a position to win it for us... to at least pump the guy up and get him ready psychologically. In other words, tell him it was his night... his game to win/lose.
REMIND him that the negative press following Game-1 was due to the fact that Carmelo was ice cold in the 2nd half and Amar'e was red hot in the 4th quarter. Personally, I have no problem going for the win on the road.
SO, coach should have pulled Carmelo aside and told him to GO FOR IT. Explain to your superstar that you will take the blame for a forced shot- that you instructed Melo to shoot the rock.
Again, forcing a shot when you're cold... and another all-star is hot... that's one thing. Forcing a shot one a night when you're having one of the greatest performances in NBA playoff history, when you're playign with 4 scrubs... That is something altogether different.
Also, as a coach, try to find a way to get Melo the ball in a little better situation. Sure, Melo likes the ball in that wing spot... SO HAVE ALL of the other players clear out and sit on the other side of the court.
Take Walker out and put in Shelden, Carter or Williams. Let Jeffries, or whomever, know if the get the ball to immediately attack the rim. Heck, if JJ shoots and misses Walker is right there for a putback.
Still, when you have 42, 17 & 5... You deserve the right to win/lose that game. Do not differ just b/c double-triple team arrives... Don't make the smart/safe play unless in your heart of hearts you do not feel you can get a shot off. I think Carmelo is confident enough to believe he can beat the double/triple team. I think the battering he got after Game 1 forced him into that pass... not BOS' defense. As a coach, you should have given 'Melo piece of mind and assure him he had the right to do as he pleased, even if it meant forcing the issue.
1) Was 'Melo afraid to make a mistake, miss a shot, turn the ball over
2) Was 'Melo lacking confidence that he could beat the defense
3) Was 'Melo playing it safe and doing the right thing just b/c of what happened after Game 1?
The Garden '95
Benchwarmer
lol funny as hell.your right thats like freezing your ass off in the middle of antarctica waiting for christ to return and saying to yourself "well he'll be here any minute now".
Red
TYPE-A
:shrug: don't know
These are the things you work on during the reg season. This is what we qestioned those times when those WRONG decisions were made, but no one wanted to see what we saw; that if this were the playoffs we would lose.
Late game situations, fouling, substitutions, veteran personnel, etc...
Right now coach gets a C- for that part of his acumen. He seemed to not anticipate these situations as if, IF we do things correct for 3 qtrs we should be able to avoid these circumstances. And that's not the case.
We clammored for veteran play and preference, so when this arrives the aren't cold and lack confidence. Instead he kept going with Fields. We clammored to foul late game when you have the option, instead he made excuses based on HIS beliefs.smh
We clammored or complained about a lack of creativity (go figure) offensively especially on game winning last possessions, no one agreed.
This is what we're talking about. Coach every reg season game like its the playoffs andyou should not be surprised. Mike coached this season preping for the far future instead of anticipating the immediate (playoff) future. And now its coming back to bite us.
I guess there's always room for improvement.
knicksman20
Benchwarmer
Turiaf has proven he can finish near the basket. He should've been in the game guarding KG after the JJ layup put us up. Mason should not have even been out there. I would've like to have seen Derrick Brown out there; with his length & athleticism he could've helped.
mafra
Legend
Shelden Williams, a former CELTIC, can also finish by the rim and defend the paint. How was he a DNP-CD, one a night Amar'e plays 18 minutes and Walker goes 0-11?
Oh well. NYK are showing the NBA that we'll be a force next year and the year after that. Deron or Paul licking their chops to sign here after 2012.
If NY is smart... DON'T WAIT though... just sign Marc Gasol or DeAndre Jordan. Get a legit C.
nyk_nyk
All Star
THANK YOU CLYDE!!!! I was screaming the same thing last night. I would have much rather Rondo taking a 15-20 footer over KG getting 5 feet from the basket for the score.
I will note that JJ played good defense on him but still...
mafra
Legend
KG was 5-15 at that point. I have no problem with our defense on that final play. The thing you don't want is Paul Pierce taking the ball and creating, and the next thing you want to prevent is Ray Allen spotting up for a decent look.
Credit Rivers for designing a great play, and attacking our weakest link. This is why I fault Mike Da'ntoni b/c our coach is supposed to be this offensive genius, and yet we never come out of a timeout and have the defense on the ropes with some MD play. We always struggle to take a low pct shot in the final seconds of games,and it appears the defense always has us on our heels.
The bottom line: Bad coaches allow the defense to take away you best option... what you want to do. Good coaches get what they want and live with the results.
Rivers understood our plan... We wanted to deny Paul and Ray the chance to win it, and we didn't want to give up a 3. So, he isolated KG on JJ, spread the floor with 3-poitn shooters, and watched his HOF player school our weakest link.
Just like the alley-oop play in Game-1, then the Allen game winner, and then the run-out play to West that sealed last night's fate... This is FOUR plays BOS drew up coming out of timeout and all worked with amazing success. Twice we had no idea what was happening, and the other 2 were simply game winning buckets.
Let's review how we responded coming out of timeouts in the same situations. BOS batting 100% while NY batting 0%?
This is why you do not give ball to Melo so far from the basket. Run him thru 3 picks and get him coming off a curl about ft line (on the elbow) extended. RUN MOTION AND PICK SOMEBODY.
We did not attack where BOS was weak. Simple as that.
I would have had Turiaf, Shelden Williams, Anthony Carter, Shawne Williams and Carmelo in on that final possession. Carmelo inbounds and gets ball to Carter. Then Shelden sets the pick, Carmelo fakes going up top and then goes back door, if nothing is there I have Turiaf setting up another pick as he swings around the other side... Carter dribbles over and/or passes to Shawne, where we look to get Carmelo that ball as he curls around. BANG. Shelden back door cuts to weakside and waits udner neath hoop and Turiaf posts on the other.
MOTION. CREATE SOMETHING. CONFUSE THE DEFENSE. Oh well.
As for KG. The only thing coach should have done... Remind Carmelo that if KG drives towards the middle... HELP and force KG to either take a really contested shot or pass it to West. If West sinks the shot... so be it.
AmareForPresident
Starter
idk how we'll be able to sign a C with the new CBA, maybe Jerome Jordan will come and we trade for cp3?
mafra
Legend
Knicks have room under the cap... New CBA, or not, teams will have some leeway... exemptions or whanot. We should be able to scrounge up enough cash to sign a Gasol or Jordan. MEM just inked Randolph, Gay, Conley... That may not match a max offer of some MLE. Who knows. Gasol may get higher offers elsewhere.
Probably even work a sign and trade with Turiaf, for the team losing a center may look to at least settle for something in return.
Scrounging Money
Mafra, you are overly optimistic about cap room. Unless we buy-out Billups, we will be over the current CBA cap by more than $3M. The new CBA is not likely to increase cap room. And if we can use a MLE to sign Gasol, so can Memphis. We are not getting Gasol for the MLE or in a sign and trade for Turiaf's expiring $4M contract. We will likely have some room only if we buy out Billups. I hate to lose billups, but we do need a defensive big.
Mafra, you are overly optimistic about cap room. Unless we buy-out Billups, we will be over the current CBA cap by more than $3M. The new CBA is not likely to increase cap room. And if we can use a MLE to sign Gasol, so can Memphis. We are not getting Gasol for the MLE or in a sign and trade for Turiaf's expiring $4M contract. We will likely have some room only if we buy out Billups. I hate to lose billups, but we do need a defensive big.
jimkcchief88
All Star
Even though I haven't been the biggest D'ant supporter in the past, I think he coached his tail-off last night. We played that entire second half with as Steve Kerr put it "Melo and a bunch of guys." When it looked like the game was going to get out of hand, our Knicks clamped down on defense and started making shots. The team didn't give up and some of that credit has to go to D'ant.
Now you can nit-pick that last play to death all you want. Melo got the quick double team and knew exactly where to go with it. It was up to JJ to just finish the play, like he had done just a couple minutes before, but he decides to over-pass in the ball in the lane. That's on JJ and I'm sure he couldn't sleep last night thinking about why he didn't just go up strong. But the play was there, JJ just needed to finish it.
Now you can nit-pick that last play to death all you want. Melo got the quick double team and knew exactly where to go with it. It was up to JJ to just finish the play, like he had done just a couple minutes before, but he decides to over-pass in the ball in the lane. That's on JJ and I'm sure he couldn't sleep last night thinking about why he didn't just go up strong. But the play was there, JJ just needed to finish it.
Crazy⑧s
Evacuee
At least the ratio of PGs to bigs is about 7-1.
If Billups doesn't make it back in this series, I doubt he'll be re-signed. That includes paying him at his clause minimum, which I doubt he'd agree to anyway.
JeffVanGundyPLEASE!
Benchwarmer
Ronny Turiaf could not be subbed in the fourth because his knees were hurt that is why Jared Jeffries was in the game so the theory of switching out players should be considered dead
the only players availiable on the bench were anthony carter sheldon williams and brown MDA made shit happen with a depleted roster just imagine what would of happened if we were at full strength
the only players availiable on the bench were anthony carter sheldon williams and brown MDA made shit happen with a depleted roster just imagine what would of happened if we were at full strength
nyk_nyk
All Star
Where did you get this information from?