Game Thread: New York Knicks vs Golden State Warriors 7:30pm 1/31/2016

[tiger0330]

Not sure when I'll be listened to but when are we gonna learn? This is very simple, start Grant have Galloway back him up and give him the majority of the minutes if Grant struggles badly. There isn't really any pg we have that is playing above and beyond impacting wins and losses. We ended up waiting thinking Calderon was the factoring linchpin and now he's injured. I mean how dumb can we be.

As long as the Knicks are in the playoff chase playing Grant major minutes let alone starting him is not going to happen. What concerns me is during his absence is that that the play of Gallo and Grant proves the reason Fish is starting JC over those two is that he's the best PG on the roster. I was hoping Gallo or Grant could step up and displace JC, but I think we go back to him as the Knicks primary PG when he returns.

 

[tiger0330]

3rd game in 4 nights... Playing GSW... Odds of us winning tonight are akin to a meteor landing while we are on the couch with Scarlet J, watching our winning powerball numbers being announced...

So... with that said... My in-game observations (for what they're worth):

Melo has 11 in the 1st Q... GSW only score 18 (and commit 8 or 9 turnovers)... Yet Knicks only had a 2-point lead... That was ballgame... NYK should've had a 15-20 point lead.. Knicks had, perhaps, the most harmless 14-0 run in NBA history that quarter.

Affalo was like 0-6 in the first half with 0 points. LT was a worse than a non-factor... he was hurting the Knicks.

Langston Galloway had arguably the ugliest attempt at a fastbreak layup in the history of NBa. He drove straight to rim and shied away from non-existent contact and basically airballs a layup... I hope he's aware of the fact that there isn't a rule demanding first player to cross half court with the ball in his hands to shoot the ball in under 5 seconds? Is this D'antoni speed ball again?

Man... How the Knicks compete with these guards on a nightly basis continues to amaze me.

Refs took incompetence tonight to new heights...

Anyway... GSW shred NYK defense for 37 in the 2nd Q... JG sets up DW for a 3 at the buzzer... 55-49 GSW at the half... But, clearly, NYK blew their chance to take control of this game in the 1st... There's no hope for a win tonight... Sad fact is this team will probably be satisfied to keep it a close game...

GSW has beaten NYK 20 of last 27 games... Looks like it'll be 21 of 28.



NYK start half with a lazy LG pass to nobody... Somehow AA scoops it up and then AA passes ball right to Curry.

Then, AA bricks a 7 footer and LG once again makes a mockery of a fastbreak layup attempt...

This is the 2015-2016 NYK guards. No pressure being applied, and they just get flummoxed by shadows and gremlins.

KP with a bad turnover, AA blows a layup, KP misses a bad shot... This NYK offense tough to watch tonight... Triangle is now a series of ISO shots... first person to get ball beyond half court... No passing, no movement, and everybody is bricking shots.

Meanwhile, GSW guards making it rain and NYK almost down by 20.

Warriors 9-14 so far from 3, as AA misses his 10th shot of the game.

KP abused by Green off the dribble. KP drills a 3 as Green smacks his shooting hand, during follow thru (which is or isn't a foul, depending on mood of ref at the time)... AA posts up Klay, but he dribbles ball off his leg for a turnover. I wish DF would sit this bum... His play is so embarrassing... It's like a dying animal, it's hard to watch... Instinct pleads to put the flailing thing out of its misery.

Galloway bricks a bad shot early in the shot clock. GSW shooting 60% and NYK shooting 33%... 4 to go in the 3rd...

Klay 12-15 shooting... JG chuck a bad shot early in the shot clock... Livingston would be our best G by a mile... He's the 4th G for GSW.

Refs don't call a foul on NY in the 3rd... Trying desperately to keep us close... Melo's elbow must be sore from hitting guys all night.

Knicks score 16 in the 3rd. They look absolutely gassed. No energy. AA looks like he doesn't even want to go
back in the game... I hope DF accommodates him... Play DW and The Greek Freak's bro... Down by 17...

Oh... 17 GSW turnovers... but NYK have only 8 points off those TO. Averaging less than .5 points per TO not good.

After the good start... 27-20 KNicks... GSW go on a 66-38 run and lead by 21 early 4th...

NYK go on a 9-0 run... Bench scoring is even (26 to 25)... This game is simple... GSW can't miss a 3 and NYK can't make 1 (and their SG is 14-17 shooting and ours is 2-12).

Leandro Barbosa hits the nail-in-coffin 3 with 6 left... The Brazilian has more points than AA, and he is their 6th G (after Curry, Thompson, AI, Livingston, and Rush).

Still, this game would've been competitive if AA scored 15-20 points. This loss, again, squarely on his shoulders. A complete no-show.

Real nice recap Mafra. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

 

[Broadway]

As long as the Knicks are in the playoff chase playing Grant major minutes let alone starting him is not going to happen. What concerns me is during his absence is that that the play of Gallo and Grant proves the reason Fish is starting JC over those two is that he's the best PG on the roster. I was hoping Gallo or Grant could step up and displace JC, but I think we go back to him as the Knicks primary PG when he returns.

That's a very short sighted and really mind numbing way to look at things. What will be the explanation when we miss the playoffs and we come back next season wondering how to approach it? Grant 24yrs old and way behind the curve? The heartbreak is sure to come. We're not making the playoffs. Derek Fisher has gone on record stating it's not absolutely necessary we make the playoffs this yr.

We're breaking down, guys are tiring out(it's our time of tribulations now) while other teams are getting healthier. And if Phil wanted to trade Calderon last yr what would stop him from trading him this yr, it's the same Calderon? Therefore what would the team do if Calderon was traded? Oh that's right play Galloway and Grant heavy minutes. We should have been doing this. Calderon's value if and when traded has never budged or moved the needle for the past 5yrs or so.

Raymond Felton is playing just as good as him and should Dallas be trying to hold on to him, thinking more than necessary? Ummmmmm NO!

This is the same moronic thought process that prevented the trade for Lowry which has been reported on in several circles Phil Jackson was operating in stealth mode on that call. Trying to scoreboard watch your way to a recipe of victory is an absolute recipe for disaster.

For crying out loud some fans want players like Russ Smith, Bobby Brown, Eric Green, to catch the flyer for this team and they somehow catapult us to playoff contention? I'm not knocking those player acquisition ideas, I'm pointing out the hyprocrisy when those names are mentioned when we have slides or skids in the scheduling.

Everyone now is witnessing Ish Smith playing as good/better ball than Jrue Holiday, Tyreke Evans, Norris Cole an organization in New Orleans who felt the guy wasn't good enough to play ahead of when all those guys were healthy.

You see where bad decisions can lead you right?

 

[htr10]

That's a very short sighted and really mind numbing way to look at things. What will be the explanation when we miss the playoffs and we come back next season wondering how to approach it? Grant 24yrs old and way behind the curve? The heartbreak is sure to come. We're not making the playoffs. Derek Fisher has gone on record stating it's not absolutely necessary we make the playoffs this yr.

We're breaking down, guys are tiring out(it's our time of tribulations now) while other teams are getting healthier. And if Phil wanted to trade Calderon last yr what would stop him from trading him this yr, it's the same Calderon? Therefore what would the team do if Calderon was traded? Oh that's right play Galloway and Grant heavy minutes. We should have been doing this. Calderon's value if and when traded has never budged or moved the needle for the past 5yrs or so.

Raymond Felton is playing just as good as him and should Dallas be trying to hold on to him, thinking more than necessary? Ummmmmm NO!

This is the same moronic thought process that prevented the trade for Lowry which has been reported on in several circles Phil Jackson was operating in stealth mode on that call. Trying to scoreboard watch your way to a recipe of victory is an absolute recipe for disaster.

For crying out loud some fans want players like Russ Smith, Bobby Brown, Eric Green, to catch the flyer for this team and they somehow catapult us to playoff contention? I'm not knocking those player acquisition ideas, I'm pointing out the hyprocrisy when those names are mentioned when we have slides or skids in the scheduling.

Everyone now is witnessing Ish Smith playing as good/better ball than Jrue Holiday, Tyreke Evans, Norris Cole an organization in New Orleans who felt the guy wasn't good enough to play ahead of when all those guys were healthy.

You see where bad decisions can lead you right?

Why so much Ish Smith love? The dude is shooting less than 40% from the floor overall, less than 30% from 3-point range (despite almost 2 attempts per game), barely shooting 70% from the free throw line, and averaging over 3 turnovers per game. So, great, he is averaging 18 points and 9 assists per game on the season. Looks a lot like if you take away his absurd volume, then he is still the same player everyone thought he was up until now.

Sure, play Grant and Galloway heavy minutes from here on out. Hey, why not? We have nothing to lose. But, let's be honest with ourselves, anyone expecting either of them to turn into legit starting PGs by the end of the year, despite infinite playing time, is likely just caught up in wishful thinking. This team needs to find a legit NBA starting PG either in the draft (tough luck for doing that this year) or in free agency.

Also, that Bargnani trade killed us. If we hadn't vomited up that 1st round pick for no reason for him, I'm thinking the odds we would have pulled the trigger for Lowry with a 1st round pick would have been much higher.

 

[Broadway]

Why so much Ish Smith love? The dude is shooting less than 40% from the floor overall, less than 30% from 3-point range (despite almost 2 attempts per game), barely shooting 70% from the free throw line, and averaging over 3 turnovers per game. So, great, he is averaging 18 points and 9 assists per game on the season. Looks a lot like if you take away his absurd volume, then he is still the same player everyone thought he was up until now.

Sure, play Grant and Galloway heavy minutes from here on out. Hey, why not? We have nothing to lose. But, let's be honest with ourselves, anyone expecting either of them to turn into legit starting PGs by the end of the year, despite infinite playing time, is likely just caught up in wishful thinking. This team needs to find a legit NBA starting PG either in the draft (tough luck for doing that this year) or in free agency.

Also, that Bargnani trade killed us. If we hadn't vomited up that 1st round pick for no reason for him, I'm thinking the odds we would have pulled the trigger for Lowry with a 1st round pick would have been much higher.

What's Philly's record since picking Ish up and how much more competitive are they? He also provided resolution on a major issue/hole they've had since MCW. They only had 1 win on the season before acquiring him. Keep in mind Philly has a collection of extremely marginal players, all their players will continue having problems with efficiency until their talent gets upgraded a little more.

It was stated Phil didn't pull the trigger at the time because he was HIGH ON SHUMPERT and Dolan was overly concerned he was getting fleeced. The trade was Felton/Shumpert or THJR and future 1st, all 3 players are gone so there you go

 

[mafra]

I heard the Lowry deal was squashed b/c Dolan was worried about TOR fleecing the NYK again, after it stole our 1st rounder for that bum Lowry...

I believe, if I recall correctly, that we could've had Bargnani or Lowry but we chose Bargs... Then, another deal could've been had for Shump and another 1st but Dolan stepped in.

Either way, the point is mute... If we dealt for Lowry, we would've been pretty good 2 years ago. Maybe Melo and Lowry attract a free agent? We probably aren't 17-win pathetic last year, and so we wouldn't have Porzingis...

I got no problem starting both LG and JG now... AA should be our 6th man for a while. Let the kids sink or swim, to hopefully build up their trade value... Make AA earn his starting role again. Deal with the growing pains... Find out if they are in our future plans. Life may be easier for them to play with KP and Melo.

 

[Kiyaman]

As long as the Knicks are in the playoff chase playing Grant major minutes let alone starting him is not going to happen. What concerns me is during his absence is that that the play of Gallo and Grant proves the reason Fish is starting JC over those two is that he's the best PG on the roster. I was hoping Gallo or Grant could step up and displace JC, but I think we go back to him as the Knicks primary PG when he returns.

We must remember, when it comes down to Gallo n Grant the two are decent ROOKIE combo-guards.
Phil is paying $15M to Calderon n Afflalo to be the lead-guards this season .. our rookie-guards has to follow the lead of their veteran teammates. Afflalo playing time minutes has been increasing no matter his consistent slump.

The championship Warriors beat us like a championship team suppose to beat a .460 team

 

[mafra]

I heard the Lowry deal was squashed b/c Dolan was worried about TOR fleecing the NYK again, after it stole our 1st rounder for that bum Bargnani...

I believe, if I recall correctly, that we could've had Bargnani or Lowry but we chose Bargs... Then, another deal could've been had for Shump and another 1st but Dolan stepped in.

Either way, the point is mute... If we dealt for Lowry, we would've been pretty good 2 years ago. Maybe Melo and Lowry attract a free agent? We probably aren't 17-win pathetic last year, and so we wouldn't have Porzingis...

I got no problem starting both LG and JG now... AA should be our 6th man for a while. Let the kids sink or swim, to hopefully build up their trade value... Make AA earn his starting role again. Deal with the growing pains... Find out if they are in our future plans. Life may be easier for them to play with KP and Melo.

 

[Broadway]

I heard the Lowry deal was squashed b/c Dolan was worried about TOR fleecing the NYK again, after it stole our 1st rounder for that bum Lowry...

I believe, if I recall correctly, that we could've had Bargnani or Lowry but we chose Bargs... Then, another deal could've been had for Shump and another 1st but Dolan stepped in.

Either way, the point is mute... If we dealt for Lowry, we would've been pretty good 2 years ago. Maybe Melo and Lowry attract a free agent? We probably aren't 17-win pathetic last year, and so we wouldn't have Porzingis...

I got no problem starting both LG and JG now... AA should be our 6th man for a while. Let the kids sink or swim, to hopefully build up their trade value... Make AA earn his starting role again. Deal with the growing pains... Find out if they are in our future plans. Life may be easier for them to play with KP and Melo.

Dolan would only think he's getting fleeced if he's getting advised on deals. Remember he openly admitted when hiring Phil he "KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT BASKETBALL" so how would he know what's a fleece and what isn't. Phil was advising him that's why. Phil wanted to hold onto Shumpert specifically because we were still in "make playoffs or else" mode as Woodson was trying to save his job. Welp we got burned. Came back even worse following season it wasn't a free agent off-season that summer.

Porzingis was never part of the equation heading into the following yr because Phil said that summer after hiring Fisher we were a playoff team and we had no clue what players would be declaring for the draft. Oh and he started making trades(clearing cap) because he was looking to sign free agents not draft players.

Considering Toronto owned our pick and had Lowry/Derozan/Jonas why not take their Knight and make them weaker? Have we been trying to win now/rebuild or decide what we were doing after the seasons are over?

 

[Broadway]

Maybe with Lowry we still miss the playoffs and land a pick somewhere in the 10-14 range and get Myles Turner or package thjr with pick and move up?

Really this isn't about Lowry, it's about not making decisions based on the scoreboard but instead based on solid principles with a longer term view in mind connecting season-to-season.

 

[RunningJumper]

Vujacic is starting to look like he should be starting over Afflalo. Afflalo is ok, but man his iso brings down the flow sometimes, and when he's not hitting shots, gotta reduce his minutes.

 

[Broadway]

At least he didn't do this to us...

 

[mafra]

1 lousy pick from falling into our laps... My heart still aches thinking of that draft... How MIN gave us 2 gifts... passed over Curry twice... 1 pick away... No way GSW take him bc they had Ellis... 1 pick away... Then Inheard his name called... Punch in the gut... Then another punch when we get that bust Hill (you knew he was a bust the moment we heard his name)...

Is Dantoni and Gallinari still here? SSOL? Maybe we call the bluff and Melo signs as a free agent and we have all 3.....

One pick away

 

[htr10]

1 lousy pick from falling into our laps... My heart still aches thinking of that draft... How MIN gave us 2 gifts... passed over Curry twice... 1 pick away... No way GSW take him bc they had Ellis... 1 pick away... Then Inheard his name called... Punch in the gut... Then another punch when we get that bust Hill (you knew he was a bust the moment we heard his name)...

Is Dantoni and Gallinari still here? SSOL? Maybe we call the bluff and Melo signs as a free agent and we have all 3.....

One pick away

I respect your infinite knowledge regarding our franchise's near-misses at superstardom in the draft, but man, let it go. Every time you bring up what could have been you're taking years off the lives of most of the regular posters on here.

 

[tiger0330]

At least he didn't do this to us...

Curry is probably the greatest shooter I've ever seen, he's got infinite range. That trick shot he makes from 20 FT off the court is amazing.

Relying on long range shooting isn't dependable, look at Korver struggling this year compared to last year but if Curry can continue shooting the ball like he is for the rest of his career he'll be the GOAT.

 

[paris401]

IEvery time you bring up what could have been you're taking years off the lives of most of the regular posters on here.

holy cow htr... all this time I thought it was my kids that are turning my hair grey... it turns out it was mafra all this time...haha

 

[mafra]

Curry is probably the greatest shooter I've ever seen, he's got infinite range. That trick shot he makes from 20 FT off the court is amazing.

Relying on long range shooting isn't dependable, look at Korver struggling this year compared to last year but if Curry can continue shooting the ball like he is for the rest of his career he'll be the GOAT.

Hands down the greatest shooter I have ever seen...

But the man who averaged a triple double has a point... Plus, rules have changed... Curry rules of 80s and 90s would've really worn down the frail curry.

------------

Oscar Robertson went on The Mike & Mike Show on Thursday and laid down a scathing indictment of NBA defensive strategy when the subject of Curry arose. According to NJ.com's Randy Miller, Robertson believes stopping Curry is simple??just go out there and guard him farther from the basket, ya dumb jamokes.

"If I've got a guy who's great shooting the ball outside, don't you want to extend your defense out a little bit?" Robertson said. "I just don't think coaches today in basketball understand the game of basketball. They don't know anything about defenses. They don't know what people are doing on the court. They talk about analytical basketball and stuff like this."

Ah, yes...Analytical Basketball?the great millennial bogeyman, sweeping in on the wings of an Excel sheet and spiriting away the soul of good ol' fashioned, peach-basket dadsketball in the dead of night. It started with the three-point line and now these kids are Euro-stompin' and wearing socks on their arms.

Indeed, the landscape of basketball has changed drastically since the pre-three-point-line days of the '60s and '70s, when Robertson played for the Cincinnati Royals and Milwaukee Bucks. But the fundamentals of defense haven't changed, according to Robertson. Curry is good, he says, but he's good because coaches these days don't get basketball.

"[Curry] has shot well because of what's going on in basketball today. In basketball today, it's almost like if you can dunk or make a three-point shot, you're the greatest thing since sliced bread...there have been some great shooters in the past...but here again, when I played...if you shot outside and hit it, the next time I'm going to be up on top of you. I'm going to pressure you with three-quarters, half-court defense. But now they don't do that. These coaches do not understand the game of basketball, as far as I'm concerned."

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/...-because-modern-nba-defenses-are-trash-022516

 

[htr10]

holy cow htr... all this time I thought it was my kids that are turning my hair grey... it turns out it was mafra all this time...haha

Yeah, seriously, he has posted how very simple twists of fate could have led to us having Curry, Westbrook, Draymond Green, maybe even more All-Stars, all on the roster today.

 

[tiger0330]

Curry is probably the greatest shooter I've ever seen, he's got infinite range. That trick shot he makes from 20 FT off the court is amazing.

Relying on long range shooting isn't dependable, look at Korver struggling this year compared to last year but if Curry can continue shooting the ball like he is for the rest of his career he'll be the GOAT.

Magic agrees with me.

 

[tiger0330]

Hands down the greatest shooter I have ever seen...

But the man who averaged a triple double has a point... Plus, rules have changed... Curry rules of 80s and 90s would've really worn down the frail curry.

------------

Oscar Robertson went on The Mike & Mike Show on Thursday and laid down a scathing indictment of NBA defensive strategy when the subject of Curry arose. According to NJ.com's Randy Miller, Robertson believes stopping Curry is simple—”just go out there and guard him farther from the basket, ya dumb jamokes.

"If I've got a guy who's great shooting the ball outside, don't you want to extend your defense out a little bit?" Robertson said. "I just don't think coaches today in basketball understand the game of basketball. They don't know anything about defenses. They don't know what people are doing on the court. They talk about analytical basketball and stuff like this."

Ah, yes...Analytical Basketball—the great millennial bogeyman, sweeping in on the wings of an Excel sheet and spiriting away the soul of good ol' fashioned, peach-basket dadsketball in the dead of night. It started with the three-point line and now these kids are Euro-stompin' and wearing socks on their arms.

Indeed, the landscape of basketball has changed drastically since the pre-three-point-line days of the '60s and '70s, when Robertson played for the Cincinnati Royals and Milwaukee Bucks. But the fundamentals of defense haven't changed, according to Robertson. Curry is good, he says, but he's good because coaches these days don't get basketball.

"[Curry] has shot well because of what's going on in basketball today. In basketball today, it's almost like if you can dunk or make a three-point shot, you're the greatest thing since sliced bread...there have been some great shooters in the past...but here again, when I played...if you shot outside and hit it, the next time I'm going to be up on top of you. I'm going to pressure you with three-quarters, half-court defense. But now they don't do that. These coaches do not understand the game of basketball, as far as I'm concerned."

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/...-because-modern-nba-defenses-are-trash-022516

I don't think the hand check rules would have affected Curry as much as Westbrook, Harden, guys that depend on that quick first step to get to the rim. Curry's strength is his dead eye shooting and his quick release so he'd be great in any era.