I'm beating a dead horse but Mike D is probably the problem

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Elite defensive coach? What part of
and I’ll live with how many we give up. As we said in Phoenix, the team with the most points is the one that played the best defense.” dont you understand? I'll live with how many we give up seems to mean that he truly has no need for defense. Its secondary at best. Why the spin?

No one said they thought he was an elite defensive coach. Just that he doesnt give a darn about defense. He doesn't pay attention to it. Heck his quote above is telling you that in RED & WHITE.

So I guess you're the one who skipped school when reading comprehension was being covered? Correct?

See this is exactly what I am disputing...the absurd notion that a winning NBA coach, COY award winner who has the Knicks in the 6th seed somehow doesn't care about defense. Again, we all know it's not his specialty but to assert that he doesn't care or understand the importance of defense is truly ridiculous. I know you think you have a trump card with a 2 line quote from 5 years ago but all you would have to do is look at any of the other mountain of evidence to know who does care, coach and preach defense. Again, I'm not syaing he is a defensive minded coach but he certainly cares about defense. What you are asserting is as absurd as a pilot who only cares about flying and has no regard for landing...

So yes, you have one quote possibly lacking context from several years agao and I have:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiO-7EpkITE
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't embed this video but it's D'antoni coaching defense and drawing up plays on the whiteboard. This was last year so there goes the BS that it took Billiups and Melo to have D'antoni care about defense. I dare you and everyone to watch the video below and tell me your one quote trumps that!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xft592_mike-d-antoni-mic-d-up-at-training-camp-part-2-10-20_sport

^^WATCH THIS VIDEO!!!!^^

Then you have all the other evidence I have presented so please stop the silly idea that an NBA coach does not care or coach defense.
 
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TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
YES the distinction is paramount as it reduces your assertion of coach yelling, speaking, saying, preaching as synonymous with a lesson on team defense, individual skills,and most importantly effectiveness of a strategic concept. Only a positive improvement on Stats will gauge this. But again its moot, because you and I both know his abilities are avg at best at doing so. Better players will mask and overcome that, but that by no means equates to prowess on MDA's part. It actually underscores the observations every creditable source has reached.

Yes the distinction is paramount if you are debating a moron who does not understand the difference. I am certainly not a moron and certainly understand the difference. My point is that you are wrong...D'ant does coach and teach defense. It started long before Billiups and Melo too. Click on the link and below and watch the video and I dare you to tell me he does not care, coach or teach defense:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xft592_mike-d-antoni-mic-d-up-at-training-camp-part-2-10-20_sport

Check mate!

Incorrect and short sighted.
I have not only communicated my hope and support for coach to change and adapt but have given him props when he has demonstrated such. But a spade is a spade, and in this case as was with others, circumstance has forced him to do so. You see that as a knock on him. I see this not only as the truth and a blessing in disguise, but a referendum on what's been argued here. A change was needed, a humbling experience was needed to cut through the stubborn unproven approach he used.

Sorry but you are spinning now. You created a thread 8 games into the season and basically concluded we were going to have another losing year and your "VERDICT" was in. Well, your verdict was wrong and the Knicks are overachieving beyond where you concluded so shortly into the season. You talk about mediocrity as if D'ant had a complete roster capable of being better than the 6th seed. Really? We had and may still have a factually worse roster than the top 4 teams in the East. Even the Hawks who are the 5th seed(ahead of us by only a few games) had a better, more complete roster with a team that has been together for years. They did not have to learn to play with one another and were able to get out of the gate running yet we are right behind them. That is not mediocrity, that is exactly where our talent dictated! Again, had someone said in your Verdict thread that the Knicks will have a winning record and be the 6th seed you would have called them crazy.

BTW, what happened to:

You two Mofo's finished your sentimental sh*t?

So is it agreed... playoffs or D'Antoni goes?

I can agree to that, I just think there are too many Fire MDA or who's fault is it threads... and I want to kill this debate til' the results are in.


Yea btw I can respect Trill & Metro and if I'm offended I know how to not respond unlike some posters. One.

Oops! :oops: This quote of yours is great for a few reasons:

1. You claim no one respects me yet here you are stating that you respect me.
2. The multitude of threads you yourself started since the above quote contridicts your view that there are too many Fire D'ant threads and your willingness to wait for the results.
3. You have since flamed me when i respond on topic to you with emotional outbursts yet in that quote you are claiming to be above it.

I formed an opinion while maintaining openmindedness, I can't say the same about you; after researching and evaluating him in many situations on & off court. As of now I haven't seen anything to the contrary. Unlike others I have the ability to be objective and true without my fandum clouding my judgement. And again I held out hope as a true Knic fan should.

If you were open minded and objective you would have followed your own words in the above quote but you clearly didn't.

Huh? First I'm wondering how you mention creditable sources, have a propensity to quote the media, but claim I listen to national media...smh

you parrot the hate from the likes of Charles Barkley. I'm sorry if you sound like one of the typical ESPN/TNT Knicks haters when it comes to our coach.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
I will eat my words, admit to my mistake, and say you were right if it does, Trill. But, I just can't see it happening with his SSOL system.

But again, I think there were points addressed by Clyde and myself that you have failed to reconcile with your theory. This year we had a new team, but a good team. A well assembled team. A bordering all-star point guard, a superstar in Amar'e, a great sixth man in Wilson Chandler, a burgeoning second-third option in Gallinari, and we still ended up with one of the worst defenses in the league. Bottom third whether you judge by PPG or Points Per Possession.

Are the players who say he doesn't care about defense wrong? Are his own words that he would rather have 5 midgets that can shoot than a 7 footer that plays defense not accurate?

I am of the belief that you need a great combo of both offense and defense to win rings. I do have a predilection to defensive teams -- just because that is what happens when you grow up with the Mid-90's Knicks; but, really, you need both.

:teeth:

You can't be serious! A well assembled team that had a PF playing center and an SF playing PF and another SF playing SG! Add to it that our two best defenders Azu and Turiaf were injured for all and most of the season respectively. Oh not to mention that 14 million dollars of our cap was wasted on Curry who did not play a single game...

I believe in defense as well and grew up watching the Knicks in the 90's but there is more than one way to win a chip. Further I reject the notion that D'ant does not understand the importance of defense. Yes, he is an offensive minded coach and your tastes may differ with that but he factually had the Suns in title contention for his entire tenure in Phoenix. They did not win but definitely contended just like the 90's Knicks.
 

moneyg

Starter
:teeth:

You can't be serious! A well assembled team that had a PF playing center and an SF playing PF and another SF playing SG! Add to it that our two best defenders Azu and Turiaf were injured for all and most of the season respectively. Oh not to mention that 14 million dollars of our cap was wasted on Curry who did not play a single game...

I believe in defense as well and grew up watching the Knicks in the 90's but there is more than one way to win a chip. Further I reject the notion that D'ant does not understand the importance of defense. Yes, he is an offensive minded coach and your tastes may differ with that but he factually had the Suns in title contention for his entire tenure in Phoenix. They did not win but definitely contended just like the 90's Knicks.

i'll end this discussion like this....

i dont think anybody thinks that o'antoni doesnt have defensive plays or talks about defense....that would be a ridiculous thought..

i think we all realize that he is below average in defensive schemes..

some people are not good at certain things.. manangers are not always good at organizing things.. that why the have admin assistant..

the problem i have with coach is that he wont admit his flaw and his stubborness will get the best of him...

of course the talks defense.. but he not good at it.. thats a league wide fact...

considering jared jefferies is one a few people that have stood by him on this topic....the key is that if you took a poll areound the league... 80% of players/coaches/commentators, etc would say he is below average in that area...

if i was an NBA player..id luv to play for him...i know i would put up good offensive numbers and look forward to larger contracts because of it.. see D lee, marion, etc....

if i was a defnsive player... i wouldnt want any part of him

the fact that suns still excelled under gentry and got better on defense is proof enough...i can say the combination of nash and stat accounted for much of his success....fact

case in point.. last night against the magic... you know the score...106pts should be enough to win you a game....

we went 6+ minute with only 1 FG.. and.. o'antoni would say.. "we couldnt get a bucket down the stretch and it cost us"

while larry brown in detroit would say "we know there will be times that we we can find the rim, but our defense will keep us in every game"

thats the difference...when it comes down to the playoffs.. good teams will take away most of our options.. defense will keep us into the game with bad shooting nights...

all im saying is we must realize he is below average teaching and comin up with a strategy on defense....and that wont change...

i think walsh has done a good job of giving him players that will fit his system...but.. as you can see with the derrick brown pickup.. walsh wasnts to emphasize defense and has gotten advice from larry brown on this pickup.....so who do you think walsh really trust????

larry brown's style or O'antoni.....

mike was an assistant on team USA.. coach k.. a college coach ran the show.. along with Nate McMillian...O'antoni came up with offensive sets
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
i'll end this discussion like this....

i dont think anybody thinks that o'antoni doesnt have defensive plays or talks about defense....that would be a ridiculous thought..

i think we all realize that he is below average in defensive schemes..

some people are not good at certain things.. manangers are not always good at organizing things.. that why the have admin assistant..

the problem i have with coach is that he wont admit his flaw and his stubborness will get the best of him...

of course the talks defense.. but he not good at it.. thats a league wide fact...

considering jared jefferies is one a few people that have stood by him on this topic....the key is that if you took a poll areound the league... 80% of players/coaches/commentators, etc would say he is below average in that area...

if i was an NBA player..id luv to play for him...i know i would put up good offensive numbers and look forward to larger contracts because of it.. see D lee, marion, etc....

if i was a defnsive player... i wouldnt want any part of him

the fact that suns still excelled under gentry and got better on defense is proof enough...i can say the combination of nash and stat accounted for much of his success....fact

case in point.. last night against the magic... you know the score...106pts should be enough to win you a game....

we went 6+ minute with only 1 FG.. and.. o'antoni would say.. "we couldnt get a bucket down the stretch and it cost us"

while larry brown in detroit would say "we know there will be times that we we can find the rim, but our defense will keep us in every game"

thats the difference...when it comes down to the playoffs.. good teams will take away most of our options.. defense will keep us into the game with bad shooting nights...

all im saying is we must realize he is below average teaching and comin up with a strategy on defense....and that wont change...

i think walsh has done a good job of giving him players that will fit his system...but.. as you can see with the derrick brown pickup.. walsh wasnts to emphasize defense and has gotten advice from larry brown on this pickup.....so who do you think walsh really trust????

larry brown's style or O'antoni.....

mike was an assistant on team USA.. coach k.. a college coach ran the show.. along with Nate McMillian...O'antoni came up with offensive sets

This factious stat that 80% of players think one thing or another is just a made up fact masquerading as a worthy topic of discussion. First of all, 95% of the league has not played for D'ant, has not been coached by D'ant and has no idea of what he teaches or coaches on a day to day basis. Secondly out of the people who he has coached it is common knowledge that most of them relish their time with him and would be happy to play for him again. (see Amare, JJ and Melo)

Right, D'antoni was brought in after the fact to manage the explosive firepower of Team USA since he is know for his offensive system. That does not mean anything bad about his ability to coach defense.
 

moneyg

Starter
This factious stat that 80% of players think one thing or another is just a made up fact masquerading as a worthy topic of discussion. First of all, 95% of the league has not played for D'ant, has not been coached by D'ant and has no idea of what he teaches or coaches on a day to day basis. Secondly out of the people who he has coached it is common knowledge that most of them relish their time with him and would be happy to play for him again. (see Amare, JJ and Melo)

Right, D'antoni was brought in after the fact to manage the explosive firepower of Team USA since he is know for his offensive system. That does not mean anything bad about his ability to coach defense.


i should of said ..probably 80%.my bad......however.. 95% of the league hasnt played for tom tibs or larry brown.. yet... they come up with an actually reoprting on their abilities and defieniencies....

..again...players love money....bigger number under o'antoni.. bigger contract...fact..again...id luv to play for him to..

with 90% of players.. its money first.. championship 2nd.....

JJ danced aroungd the question actually....he never said o'antoni was good on defense.. and he never said he was bad....

the real question is...."as far as defense goes.. do you think O;antoni is the best, the worse, average, below average, above average on defense compared to other coaches you have played for? is he better than larry adelamn?...

when you say he doesnt have the right player to play defense... these are the type of players he asked for....fact.....

its easy for him and JJ to say we dont have the players to implement good D..i would ask.. why dont you go get them???.. for the most part....defenders come alot cheaper than scorers....

the fans at the garden scream.. defense..defense.. and they can not implement a good strategy.. so the rah rah .. defense on 3... is a fail...

let me ask you a question.. answer honestly....

do you think O'antoni is the best, the worse, average, below average, above average on defense compared to other coaches you have seen or heard about????

im willing to answer any question you got... honestly...

like the offense... hate the defense more

LOVE THE RECORD...HATE THE PATH

if we werent so bad the last decade.. it would be easier for us to spot fools gold...

Trill...ur settling...

ib be happy for a sexy dumb bitch.. if i was screwing mudducks for the last decade too....

rather have a decent all around woman
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
i should of said ..probably 80%.my bad......however.. 95% of the league hasnt played for tom tibs or larry brown.. yet... they come up with an actually reoprting on their abilities and defieniencies....

..again...players love money....bigger number under o'antoni.. bigger contract...fact..again...id luv to play for him to..

with 90% of players.. its money first.. championship 2nd.....

JJ danced aroungd the question actually....he never said o'antoni was good on defense.. and he never said he was bad....

the real question is...."as far as defense goes.. do you think O;antoni is the best, the worse, average, below average, above average on defense compared to other coaches you have played for? is he better than larry adelamn?...

when you say he doesnt have the right player to play defense... these are the type of players he asked for....fact.....

its easy for him and JJ to say we dont have the players to implement good D..i would ask.. why dont you go get them???.. for the most part....defenders come alot cheaper than scorers....

the fans at the garden scream.. defense..defense.. and they can not implement a good strategy.. so the rah rah .. defense on 3... is a fail...

let me ask you a question.. answer honestly....

do you think O'antoni is the best, the worse, average, below average, above average on defense compared to other coaches you have seen or heard about????

im willing to answer any question you got... honestly...

like the offense... hate the defense more

LOVE THE RECORD...HATE THE PATH

if we werent so bad the last decade.. it would be easier for us to spot fools gold...

Trill...ur settling...

ib be happy for a sexy dumb bitch.. if i was screwing mudducks for the last decade too....

rather have a decent all around woman

I'm not settling. What I firmly believe is that a team with a top 2 offense and a middle of the pack defense can contend credibly for a title. The Suns proved that as they were contenders every year D'ant was the coach. Further, D'ant may never be as gifted as someone like Thib when it comes to defense but he certainly can coach a team with good defensive players into being a good defensive team. D'ant has not had a good defensive team to coach in NYC yet. The Suns while they gave up a lot of points were much better at defense then they were given credit for. You do not win 50+ games every year including 60+ twice and not play good defense.

So yes, If we had a team filled with elite defenders I would say another coach like Thib would be better. Being that we have a small offensive roster I think D'ant is best suited to maximize the talent. More so before the trade as I feel post trade we will need a hybrid of half-court/uptempo ball) I think when a team lacks size or defensive stoppers the only way to win is to supercharge your offense and do the best you can on defense. I maintain that D'ant is doing precisely that.
 

moneyg

Starter
I'm not settling. What I firmly believe is that a team with a top 2 offense and a middle of the pack defense can contend credibly for a title. The Suns proved that as they were contenders every year D'ant was the coach. Further, D'ant may never be as gifted as someone like Thib when it comes to defense but he certainly can coach a team with good defensive players into being a good defensive team. D'ant has not had a good defensive team to coach in NYC yet. The Suns while they gave up a lot of points were much better at defense then they were given credit for. You do not win 50+ games every year including 60+ twice and not play good defense.

So yes, If we had a team filled with elite defenders I would say another coach like Thib would be better. Being that we have a small offensive roster I think D'ant is best suited to maximize the talent. More so before the trade as I feel post trade we will need a hybrid of half-court/uptempo ball) I think when a team lacks size or defensive stoppers the only way to win is to supercharge your offense and do the best you can on defense. I maintain that D'ant is doing precisely that.

that should be the reverse.... id rather have a average defensive team coached by a great defensive coach..

Trill you did not answer any of my question....and i didnt expect you to...

the reason why we have a small offensive roster... is because it is the type of players O'antoni wants...fact

history shows us that he plays players out of position to take advantage on the offensive end.. versus creating consistency on defense..fact

and stop using the suns success..as a praise to O'antioni when they were just as good, if not better without him...nash and stat...ran the team...fact

O'antoni's only successful body of work was with nash and amare....fact

how did gentry get those same players to play better defense and put up a high octane offense??...another question i don not expect you to answer.....

why did the suns give him permission to talk to other teams while still under contract when he refuse to do better on defense????another question i don not expect you to answer.....

BELOW AVERAGE AT BEST
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
that should be the reverse.... id rather have a average defensive team coached by a great defensive coach..

No it shouldn't be the reverse! A coach must maximize his talent and trying to slow down and bang with an undersized roster would be a bad idea...period! The only thing that allowed our flawed and undersized roster to compete and win was our ability to dictate tempo and run the other team ragged. Had the other larger, more half court oriented teams been able to slow the game down and dictate the tempo we would be playing their game, not ours and would have lost more games. In case you didn't realize we have a winning record and are exactly where our talent dictated...the 6th seed. Every team ahead of us had a better roster than ours.

the reason why we have a small offensive roster... is because it is the type of players O'antoni wants...fact

Not fact!

1. D'ant is not the GM.
2. We acquired the best possible talent available. Had we gotten Lebron he would have played Point Forward in this offense. D'ant already stated that when we were in contention for Lebron.
3. Chandler was a hold over and Gallo was an oversized SF.
4. Jared Jeffieres, the one pickup we went after post trade is a defensive big.

history shows us that he plays players out of position to take advantage on the offensive end.. versus creating consistency on defense.

Wrong again. We started and ended the 1st half of the year with Moz playing center and only went to small lineup out of necessity. If we had a legit center no one would play out of position except Fields who happens to be bringing SIZE, DEFENSE and REBOUNDING to the SG position.

and stop using the suns success..as a praise to O'antioni when they were just as good, if not better without him...nash and stat...ran the team..

First of all, Gentry was D'ant assistant coach for 6 years and continued the up-tempo offense D'ant implemented. Secondly, D'antoni coached to TWO WC finals and more wins each season except for one when they both had 54.

how did gentry get those same players to play better defense and put up a high octane offense??...another question i don not expect you to answer


What metric are you using to determine they played better defense? They were 26th in PPG and 29th in steals. Seems to me the defense stayed pretty much the same under both coaches which would lend credence to players being more responsible for defense than coaches. It also furthers my point that a team can be contenders since the Suns made it 3 times to WC finals playing up-tempo ball verse lock down halfcourt defense.

why did the suns give him permission to talk to other teams while still under contract when he refuse to do better on defense????another question i don not expect you to answer.....

Your question is poorly formed but I will answer you anyway. The Suns let D'ant talk out of respect for what he did for that organization. He wanted out, they wanted to go in a new direction so they both were amicable. BTW, it was D'ant who wanted out of Phoenix, not the other way around.
 

moneyg

Starter
No it shouldn't be the reverse! A coach must maximize his talent and trying to slow down and bang with an undersized roster would be a bad idea...period! The only thing that allowed our flawed and undersized roster to compete and win was our ability to dictate tempo and run the other team ragged. Had the other larger, more half court oriented teams been able to slow the game down and dictate the tempo we would be playing their game, not ours and would have lost more games. In case you didn't realize we have a winning record and are exactly where our talent dictated...the 6th seed. Every team ahead of us had a better roster than ours.



Not fact!

1. D'ant is not the GM.
2. We acquired the best possible talent available. Had we gotten Lebron he would have played Point Forward in this offense. D'ant already stated that when we were in contention for Lebron.
3. Chandler was a hold over and Gallo was an oversized SF.
4. Jared Jeffieres, the one pickup we went after post trade is a defensive big.



Wrong again. We started and ended the 1st half of the year with Moz playing center and only went to small lineup out of necessity. If we had a legit center no one would play out of position except Fields who happens to be bringing SIZE, DEFENSE and REBOUNDING to the SG position.



First of all, Gentry was D'ant assistant coach for 6 years and continued the up-tempo offense D'ant implemented. Secondly, D'antoni coached to TWO WC finals and more wins each season except for one when they both had 54.



What metric are you using to determine they played better defense? They were 26th in PPG and 29th in steals. Seems to me the defense stayed pretty much the same under both coaches which would lend credence to players being more responsible for defense than coaches. It also furthers my point that a team can be contenders since the Suns made it 3 times to WC finals playing up-tempo ball verse lock down halfcourt defense.



Your question is poorly formed but I will answer you anyway. The Suns let D'ant talk out of respect for what he did for that organization. He wanted out, they wanted to go in a new direction so they both were amicable. BTW, it was D'ant who wanted out of Phoenix, not the other way around.


he wanted out of PHX because he was pressure to focus on defense.. which he refused to...fact


Walsh has said over and over that he prefers a convential linup versus our coaches theory.... but he has to get O'antoni the player that fit O'antonis system....fact

IMO....Walsh can go to....

do you think O'antoni is the best, the worse, average, below average, above average on defense compared to other coaches you have seen or heard about????




Just listen to Stephen A smith on the HERD.. and he voice exactly what i have said....FACT
 
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TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
he wanted out of PHX because he was pressure to focus on defense.. which he refused to...fact


Walsh has said over and over that he prefers a convential linup versus our coaches theory.... but he has to get O'antoni the player that fit O'antonis system....fact

IMO....Walsh can go to....


Just listen to Stephen A smith on the HERD.. and he voice exactly what i have said....FACT

You didn't address any of my points even though I responded to each of your points...fact.

You are changing the topic now...fact.

Walsh has been the best thing to happen to this organization in over a decade yet you want him to go...fact.

SMH at you...fact.
 

moneyg

Starter
You didn't address any of my points even though I responded to each of your points...fact.

You are changing the topic now...fact.

Walsh has been the best thing to happen to this organization in over a decade yet you want him to go...fact.

SMH at you...fact.

do you think O'antoni is the best, the worse, average, below average, above average on defense compared to other coaches you have seen or heard about????


you didnt ask any questions...did u???


ur dodging the question above

and if walsh is feeding in to this SSOL crap.. yes... send him a$$ packing too
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
do you think O'antoni is the best, the worse, average, below average, above average on defense compared to other coaches you have seen or heard about????


you didnt ask any questions...did u???


ur dodging the question above

and if walsh is feeding in to this SSOL crap.. yes... send him a$$ packing too

D'ant is a slightly below average defensive coach but probably the best offensive coach of this generation. That nets you 60+ wins and perennial title contenders. This team with some tweaks to the roster will be title contenders too and may just win a chip.
 

moneyg

Starter
D'ant is a slightly below average defensive coach but probably the best offensive coach of this generation. That nets you 60+ wins and perennial title contenders. This team with some tweaks to the roster will be title contenders too and may just win a chip.


thats all i wanted to hear...your quote....

D'ant is a slightly below average defensive coach ...TR1LL1ON

and you think a slightly below average defensive coach will get us a championship???..and you blame the players....not the coach???..what a joke

Case closed
 
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MusketeerX

Rotation player
D'ant is a slightly below average defensive coach but probably the best offensive coach of this generation. That nets you 60+ wins and perennial title contenders. This team with some tweaks to the roster will be title contenders too and may just win a chip.

I also don't buy into this idea that he is the best offensive coach of our generation...

He is a great offensive coach, but let's face it... we see our team score 108 points in a game and then lose by 8... Does that not make the other coach a better offensive coach???

I think his offense and success has been built off one one VERY elite point guard... and we have not seen a similar point guard on our team...

His offense is so PG focused that if he is having a bad game, or not absolutely stellar, you're not going to win games. I'd prefer a triangle system, or any other system where the offense can be concentrated on more than one player controlling the ball.

That said -- we have Steve Nash, his offensive system fits perfectly.
 

Red

TYPE-A
Yes the distinction is paramount if you are debating a moron who does not understand the difference. I am certainly not a moron and certainly understand the difference. My point is that you are wrong...D'ant does coach and teach defense. It started long before Billiups and Melo too. Click on the link and below and watch the video and I dare you to tell me he does not care, coach or teach defense:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xft592_mike-d-antoni-mic-d-up-at-training-camp-part-2-10-20_sport

Check mate!



Sorry but you are spinning now. You created a thread 8 games into the season and basically concluded we were going to have another losing year and your "VERDICT" was in. Well, your verdict was wrong and the Knicks are overachieving beyond where you concluded so shortly into the season. You talk about mediocrity as if D'ant had a complete roster capable of being better than the 6th seed. Really? We had and may still have a factually worse roster than the top 4 teams in the East. Even the Hawks who are the 5th seed(ahead of us by only a few games) had a better, more complete roster with a team that has been together for years. They did not have to learn to play with one another and were able to get out of the gate running yet we are right behind them. That is not mediocrity, that is exactly where our talent dictated! Again, had someone said in your Verdict thread that the Knicks will have a winning record and be the 6th seed you would have called them crazy.

BTW, what happened to:



Oops! :oops: This quote of yours is great for a few reasons:

1. You claim no one respects me yet here you are stating that you respect me.
2. The multitude of threads you yourself started since the above quote contridicts your view that there are too many Fire D'ant threads and your willingness to wait for the results.
3. You have since flamed me when i respond on topic to you with emotional outbursts yet in that quote you are claiming to be above it.



If you were open minded and objective you would have followed your own words in the above quote but you clearly didn't.



you parrot the hate from the likes of Charles Barkley. I'm sorry if you sound like one of the typical ESPN/TNT Knicks haters when it comes to our coach.


Maybe you need specifics. Don't you understand every single coach probably covers defense one way or another? I'm sure you do because you said of course D'Ant cares about defense etc... most coaches preach, talk, draw up, go over etc...

But you have not extrapolated the actual point:

EFFECTIVENESS!!!

Really i'm surprised at a few things.

1. That you have yet to understand whatever approach MDA uses it hasn't translated into results and positive impact defensively. As if a video showing coach talking defense refutes this. Its mind boggling.

2. That you thought anyone would be satisfed with being near last in the league in defense.

3. That you believe "proof" is needed that illustrates how an uptempo style affects defense. Really? I and others have used logic, reasoning, and a slew of examples of taking such approach. Not to mention the stats. Isn't the proof in the pudding? Are allthe writers, coaches, players etc... wrong. Really, you figured something out that no one hasn't... really? Wow!

That's the basis of ignorance. Your perception has become yur reality. Altering your perception to fit your fellings. No is saying you can't like coach, but how can you call yourself objecive when you can't admit the obvious?

MDA's weak points include defense, exacerbated by his offensive philosophy. There are many many unintended consequences that have been listed and observed and you claim a video proves this wrong. Smh.


Again, my verdict was accurate as far as I'm concerned. I saw nothing at that time that was different than the past, and I still see a lack of coaching effectiveness defensively, most likely due to the overall approach. And the stats say this as well as logic.


And don't spin my opinion, I'm not saying to fire MDA. But I know a spade when I see one. If coach can't adapt and learn to alter his style to incorporate better defensive strategy he will continue to be trumpt by those who do.

Are you disputing that verdict? Just as there is no video "proof" (just a perponderence of evidence) that running and chucking has many negative effects over the course of time, some not so apparent-

You should provide video proof that it does work and there are no ancillary negative impacts of ssol. where's that proof? Huh, where's that video? Where's the quotes
Of valid professional opinions and analysis that supports your stance like we have provided? That counter years of analysis and observation by professionals as well as statistical metrics?

Your little video won't cut it. MDA's quotes won't cut it. Here in NY we need results.

Like with a girlfriend... you think saying you love her is enough or you think showing her is better? If she asked you t show he your love and prove it that a video of you saying so will cut it?

Actions and words. Your full of words, we are detailing actions and results. Results, results, results!!!

Until you show some proof that your stance is correct you min as well be that stubborn kid refusing to accept the truth standing vehemently with your fingers in your ear.

With 2max's MDA will be blamed if we fail, accept it. No more excuses. All your assertions will be tested. And on video just for you.
 

Toons

is the Bo$$
thats all i wanted to hear...your quote....

D'ant is a slightly below average defensive coach ...TR1LL1ON

and you think a slightly below average defensive coach will get us a championship???..and you blame the players....not the coach???..what a joke

Case closed

with the right players, we will win a ring. You cant deny that with a centre we would have smashed the magic. Our only competition in the east would be boston if we get Deandre jordan/marc gasol type pleyer.
 

moneyg

Starter
with the right players, we will win a ring. You cant deny that with a centre we would have smashed the magic. Our only competition in the east would be boston if we get Deandre jordan/marc gasol type pleyer.


who plays center for miami...who plays center for atlanta....who playing center for OKC.. all those teams are cleary better than us.... with no real center...

will O'antoni even want these guys????
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
thats all i wanted to hear...your quote....

D'ant is a slightly below average defensive coach ...TR1LL1ON

and you think a slightly below average defensive coach will get us a championship???..and you blame the players....not the coach???..what a joke

Case closed

Case is not closed since i rather have a coach be exceptional at one aspect and subpar but adequate on another than slightly above average on both offense and defense. Case will be closed when D'ant wins a title or retires without one.
 

moneyg

Starter
Case is not closed since i rather have a coach be exceptional at one aspect and subpar but adequate on another than slightly above average on both offense and defense. Case will be closed when D'ant wins a title or retires without one.


below average does not equal adequate...

i rather the latter....and im sure every player in the league would as well....

so i guess you rather a sexy dumb bitch that is a stiff in bed... then a above average woman in all areas.. like...personality.. career.. sex, looks, smarts etc...

i get ur point.. just no my cup of tea..

i respect your opinion/taste...
 
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