Loss against the Jazz shows why Melo is not the answer!!!!!

[Real NY Baller]

I agree but what has gotten us this far, our bread and butter is that we are an athletic team, high powered offensive team and while we are not a great defensive team, we are more opportunistic on defense.... stealing a ball, blocking a shot, taking a charge and getting in the heads of our opponents; disrupting their game...
We aren't built to be a defensive team, all of our players are slender, quick, more athletic... That works to our advantage most of the time until we bump into a supercharged version of us; the Heat for example or Boston... Then there will be games that we lose for other reason; fatigue or lack of inspiration...
But it kills me every time I read a post that knocks D'Antoni for not preaching defense (I know NY Baller didn't state that in this post) when that is not true... He does push D just not a slow methodical half court game like the Spurs...
Also, he could push a smothering type of defense all he wants but when our players are not that those types of players it does not good; in fact it is counter productive! He has to gear the game to the players.

Then he needs to go all out and make sure his system has all the right pieces. He needs to jump on the opportunity to get Mello to assit in building points, or at least pick up the slack when Stat and/or the test of the team is too winded to score...or injured. This current short rotation is not going to last all year or in the playoff (if they make it). they are already showing signs of wear and tear because of the hugh minutes and lack of bench support.

I don't see whats so hard about keeping our bigs around the basket on defense, we give up too many easy paint buckets.There is too much double teaming and the man to man is not only suspect it will also wear them down. The constant chasing around of players isn't a easy task to do every game...it gets tiring as you can see.

If we are running and gunning, using a short rotation...and playing man 2 man...we will have a tired bunch of players that will ultimately become uninspired if they start losing games due to fatigue and/or injuries. Using a zone every now and then will help...it will force teams to score from outside (not the middle all the time) and give us some quick breaths in between runs.
The coach must think we have Supermen out there.

 

[knickzrulezH20]

We needed Gallo.

 

[Real NY Baller]

If Gallo isn't working on his game (like trying to be a consistant shooter) while he heals... he will just hinder us more...like he did most of the season. He can't play D, rarely finishes his drives to the rack, loses most of his handle and flops too much. All of these slow down our templo.

He is already replaced by Williams...who is playing way better than Gallo. Plus Gallo is frail. You think he is going to be an contributor coming back from a knee sprain? His game will only be slower...than it already was. He can't play thru simple injuries. We don't need him...as you already can see. Williams and Walker step in and manned up and contributed more in their short span of time.

 

[metrocard]

Exactly.

Honestly whether you guys believe this or not, we got the players.

We just need time to gel.
I'm open to upgrading though, we can never have a final frontier with this team.

 

[Oldtimer]

The Price for Melo

Getting Melo via a current trade is not the answer. I certainly do not expect any new CBA to increase cap numbers -- unless perhaps there is a hard cap -- and I don't expect maximum contracts to increase -- unless perhaps they are NFL like voidable at owner discretion.

Melo's extended contract numbers, combined with Amar'e's and Felton's would be $44M next year. If Chandler is not included in the trade, he is going to cost us about $10M a year to keep. That's $54M for 4 players. If Chandler is not included in a trade, then we would surely lose Gallo, Randolph and perhaps Fields, We would have no asssets for a reasonably dominant big or proven back-up point guard or any likely cap space for signing them.

I do not think that Denver wants Chandler, not because he is not a really good player, but because he will be a restricted free agent who might cost too much to keep.

Waiting for Melo to become a free agent is a risk because Melo would surely like the extended contract Denver has offered and prefer not to risk the financial uncertainties of the new CBA. A refusal to deal for him now could push Melo to the Nets.

But even if we wait for Melo, there will be problems keeping Chandler and maintaining cap flexibility and we will still need some player assets for the likes of M. Gasol or D. Jordan.

Melo is a "star" and a truly great offensive player, but getting him has some real costs.

I like Donnie's patience and I will not be terribly disappointed if we do not get Melo, particularly since getting Melo, i believe, will necessarily involve losing Chandler.

 

[metrocard]

Getting Melo via a current trade is not the answer. I certainly do not expect any new CBA to increase cap numbers -- unless perhaps there is a hard cap -- and I don't expect maximum contracts to increase -- unless perhaps they are NFL like voidable at owner discretion.

Melo's extended contract numbers, combined with Amar'e's and Felton's would be $44M next year. If Chandler is not included in the trade, he is going to cost us about $10M a year to keep. That's $54M for 4 players. If Chandler is not included in a trade, then we would surely lose Gallo, Randolph and perhaps Fields, We would have no asssets for a reasonably dominant big or proven back-up point guard or any likely cap space for signing them.

I do not think that Denver wants Chandler, not because he is not a really good player, but because he will be a restricted free agent who might cost too much to keep.

Waiting for Melo to become a free agent is a risk because Melo would surely like the extended contract Denver has offered and prefer not to risk the financial uncertainties of the new CBA. A refusal to deal for him now could push Melo to the Nets.

But even if we wait for Melo, there will be problems keeping Chandler and maintaining cap flexibility and we will still need some player assets for the likes of M. Gasol or D. Jordan.

Melo is a "star" and a truly great offensive player, but getting him has some real costs.

I like Donnie's patience and I will not be terribly disappointed if we do not get Melo, particularly since getting Melo, i believe, will necessarily involve losing Chandler.

I enjoy reading this.
Thanks.

 

[Knicks4lyfe]

Getting Melo via a current trade is not the answer. I certainly do not expect any new CBA to increase cap numbers -- unless perhaps there is a hard cap -- and I don't expect maximum contracts to increase -- unless perhaps they are NFL like voidable at owner discretion.

Melo's extended contract numbers, combined with Amar'e's and Felton's would be $44M next year. If Chandler is not included in the trade, he is going to cost us about $10M a year to keep. That's $54M for 4 players. If Chandler is not included in a trade, then we would surely lose Gallo, Randolph and perhaps Fields, We would have no asssets for a reasonably dominant big or proven back-up point guard or any likely cap space for signing them.

I do not think that Denver wants Chandler, not because he is not a really good player, but because he will be a restricted free agent who might cost too much to keep.

Waiting for Melo to become a free agent is a risk because Melo would surely like the extended contract Denver has offered and prefer not to risk the financial uncertainties of the new CBA. A refusal to deal for him now could push Melo to the Nets.

But even if we wait for Melo, there will be problems keeping Chandler and maintaining cap flexibility and we will still need some player assets for the likes of M. Gasol or D. Jordan.

Melo is a "star" and a truly great offensive player, but getting him has some real costs.

I like Donnie's patience and I will not be terribly disappointed if we do not get Melo, particularly since getting Melo, i believe, will necessarily involve losing Chandler.

Chandler is a B player. Melo is an A. Melo is a dominant force, offensively, Will at times, plays dominant. But he is not a go to guy. The best teams have multiple go to guys. Lakers have Kobe and Gasol. Boston has Pierce, and Garnett, Mia has Wade and Lebron. Right now, we have Stat. Felton is boss playin right now, but in this system, he can't really be the go to guy, trying to involve everyone. If we land Melo, regardless of lack of size, I believe we step in that upper tier level of teams, simply because or Offense never has to step on the brakes. Even without a backup pg, so long as Melo or Stat are in the game, our offense will be tough to stop. Right now, if we don't build a lead with Stat and Felton on the floor, we either end up losing it, and have to get it back, or flat out get killed.

Melo would allow Stat more rest time, as well as Felton, because we can simply Iso to give them a blow. And so long as we keep Williams, Walker and Gallo, we will have enough shooters around him to keep teams honest. Imagine not being able to double Carmelo??????

Yes, I know we need size. Yes I know we need rebounding. But you have an easier time getting those pieces than a dominant top 5 player in the NBA. You strike now, and lets give it a go in the playoffs. Who knows, maybe a lightbulb turns on in Mozgovs head before the season is out. Maybe we get an Earl Barron to help some. All I know, is if we wanna get serious about a title, we need to get that other top tier go to guy. And the good thing about Melo is, HE WANTS US! When was the last time a top player wanted NY? Oh, STAT! that turned out well

 

[welcometonycity]

Chandler is a B player. Melo is an A. Melo is a dominant force, offensively, Will at times, plays dominant. But he is not a go to guy. The best teams have multiple go to guys. Lakers have Kobe and Gasol. Boston has Pierce, and Garnett, Mia has Wade and Lebron. Right now, we have Stat. Felton is boss playin right now, but in this system, he can't really be the go to guy, trying to involve everyone. If we land Melo, regardless of lack of size, I believe we step in that upper tier level of teams, simply because or Offense never has to step on the brakes. Even without a backup pg, so long as Melo or Stat are in the game, our offense will be tough to stop. Right now, if we don't build a lead with Stat and Felton on the floor, we either end up losing it, and have to get it back, or flat out get killed.

Melo would allow Stat more rest time, as well as Felton, because we can simply Iso to give them a blow. And so long as we keep Williams, Walker and Gallo, we will have enough shooters around him to keep teams honest. Imagine not being able to double Carmelo??????

Yes, I know we need size. Yes I know we need rebounding. But you have an easier time getting those pieces than a dominant top 5 player in the NBA. You strike now, and lets give it a go in the playoffs. Who knows, maybe a lightbulb turns on in Mozgovs head before the season is out. Maybe we get an Earl Barron to help some. All I know, is if we wanna get serious about a title, we need to get that other top tier go to guy. And the good thing about Melo is, HE WANTS US! When was the last time a top player wanted NY? Oh, STAT! that turned out well

thankyouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

 

[Oldtimer]

Price for Melo

Chandler is a B player. Melo is an A. Melo is a dominant force, offensively, Will at times, plays dominant. But he is not a go to guy. The best teams have multiple go to guys. Lakers have Kobe and Gasol. Boston has Pierce, and Garnett, Mia has Wade and Lebron. Right now, we have Stat. Felton is boss playin right now, but in this system, he can't really be the go to guy, trying to involve everyone. If we land Melo, regardless of lack of size, I believe we step in that upper tier level of teams, simply because or Offense never has to step on the brakes. Even without a backup pg, so long as Melo or Stat are in the game, our offense will be tough to stop. Right now, if we don't build a lead with Stat and Felton on the floor, we either end up losing it, and have to get it back, or flat out get killed.

Melo would allow Stat more rest time, as well as Felton, because we can simply Iso to give them a blow. And so long as we keep Williams, Walker and Gallo, we will have enough shooters around him to keep teams honest. Imagine not being able two of Chandler, Gallo o double Carmelo??????

Yes, I know we need size. Yes I know we need rebounding. But you have an easier time getting those pieces than a dominant top 5 player in the NBA. You strike now, and lets give it a go in the playoffs. Who knows, maybe a lightbulb turns on in Mozgovs head before the season is out. Maybe we get an Earl Barron to help some. All I know, is if we wanna get serious about a title, we need to get that other top tier go to guy. And the good thing about Melo is, HE WANTS US! When was the last time a top player wanted NY? Oh, STAT! that turned out well

Although you may be underestimating Chandler, your points are well taken. I would prefer, however, to wait for Melo's free agency than for Mozgov's enlightenment. i would also hate to lose any two of Chandler, Gallo and Fields. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

 

[ronoranina]

Chandler is a B player. Melo is an A. Melo is a dominant force, offensively, Will at times, plays dominant. But he is not a go to guy. The best teams have multiple go to guys. Lakers have Kobe and Gasol. Boston has Pierce, and Garnett, Mia has Wade and Lebron. Right now, we have Stat. Felton is boss playin right now, but in this system, he can't really be the go to guy, trying to involve everyone. If we land Melo, regardless of lack of size, I believe we step in that upper tier level of teams, simply because or Offense never has to step on the brakes. Even without a backup pg, so long as Melo or Stat are in the game, our offense will be tough to stop. Right now, if we don't build a lead with Stat and Felton on the floor, we either end up losing it, and have to get it back, or flat out get killed.

Melo would allow Stat more rest time, as well as Felton, because we can simply Iso to give them a blow. And so long as we keep Williams, Walker and Gallo, we will have enough shooters around him to keep teams honest. Imagine not being able to double Carmelo??????

Yes, I know we need size. Yes I know we need rebounding. But you have an easier time getting those pieces than a dominant top 5 player in the NBA. You strike now, and lets give it a go in the playoffs. Who knows, maybe a lightbulb turns on in Mozgovs head before the season is out. Maybe we get an Earl Barron to help some. All I know, is if we wanna get serious about a title, we need to get that other top tier go to guy. And the good thing about Melo is, HE WANTS US! When was the last time a top player wanted NY? Oh, STAT! that turned out well

:agreed: Well stated. :beer:

 

[TR1LL10N]

VERRRY rarely do I make excuses

but in all honesty.

Last nights game can be tossed in the garbage, being that the refs decided who would walk away the winners.

I have never seen such an uncontrolled game in my life.

The refs had no clue whether they wanted to let them play
or call a tight game, leaving literally 4-5 players on the knicks in foul trouble with 10 minutes left to play in the game.

that should never ever ever ever happen in an NBA game ever.

I am not going to sit here and say we need melo, because amare was only on the floor for a total of two quarters, because the refs were sweating the jazz's salty balls. .

THIS^^ The Refs straight effed us! We were in deep foul trouble the entire game because of inconsistent one sided whistle blowing.


LOL at anyone who wants to pass up on a core of Melo, Amare and Felton in order to get a mediocre role player at center who happens to be a restricted FA...

 

[ronoranina]

Yep..

If we have:

Felton
Fields
Melo
Gallo
Amare

That's enough to have a good chance @ smacking the sh*t out of a team like Miami, or the Celts. I'll take that.

Common guys this ain't rocket science...

Melo aint my favorite player, but I can't fault for a sec our efforts to get him on THE squad.

 

[la2ny]

Exactly.

I hate to be the one to say it because I do it too, but atleast I use common logic before I post. Guys on here try 2 play GM and they'd be fired within their first year. We all know we need rebounding, size, and a backup PG. At the same time those are the 2 positions where you don't need a great player at, but just a player that fits a role. With a great core you can get good role players for cheap. Right now we aren't finished w/ our core. Stat-Melo-Felton> Stat-Felton-(decent role players). I'd love to get a Gasol and Mayo, but in reality 9x out of 10 it isn't going to happen. Even with them we wouldn't go anywhere in the postseason.

Lets face it we as FANS overrate players and tend to be homers. Lets face it people around the league in front offices and players around the league wouldn't give Melo the respect he gets for anything. He's one of the best in the game today and you have to respect that.

What if that T-mobile commercial w/ Wade came true and we had a chance to trade for D-Wade. You guys gonna tell me your not trading Danillo Gallinari, Landry Fields, or Wilson Chandler for him because them together are better? You'd have to be insane not to do that deal. In no way am I saying Melo and Wade are the same because you guys will jump the gun on that, but im saying if it was the same situation w/ another top player will you not try to do it?

 

[stuntmanmike]

dude by bring in melo allows us to bring williams, chandler or gallo, douglas, turiaf off the bench... night after night its just going to be about who has the hot hand.... you cant beat that... would be awesome

 

[Blumatic]

Guys we are not one piece from winning a championship. Melo alone wont get it done. Deandre alone, wont get it done. Even if we got both we still need a back up pg. And more depth. We need it all. And Donnie left us flexible enough to get everything we need.

 

[Crazy⑧s]

Yep..

If we have:

Felton
Fields
Melo
Gallo
Amare

That's enough to have a good chance @ smacking the sh*t out of a team like Miami, or the Celts. I'll take that.

Common guys this ain't rocket science...

Melo aint my favorite player, but I can't fault for a sec our efforts to get him on THE squad.

I'd play Williams more minutes at the 4 than Gallo, have the 2 of them as second unit players with Ronny taking starting minutes in the 1st @ 5.

THIS^^ The Refs straight effed us! We were in deep foul trouble the entire game because of inconsistent one sided whistle blowing.


LOL at anyone who wants to pass up on a core of Melo, Amare and Felton in order to get a mediocre role player at center who happens to be a restricted FA...

It's another game of inconsistent, borderline meddling from the refs for us. The deviation between play to play, quarter to quarter calls has been pathetic all year. Add a stricter 'no tolerance' tech rule to that, and the result is this:



Playing in a league of banned emotions. It's absolute shit.

Clearly on any given night we have shown we can put up points. We shot horribly to fall out of the game and shot our way back into to it, so scoring is not a problem to us

Raymond Felton matched the play of a elite PG once again.

we hit 14 3's

Bill Walker and Shawne Williams played brilliantly on the offensive end....yet the end result is a Knick loss!

Why.....they punished us on the interior!

So do we invest all of our cap this summer in just to get Melo?

say the cap comes in at 59 million giving us 17 million to spend

Look we can dump AR's contract for a pick to shed another 3 million (which goes to Wilson for his Q.O.)

Then we give Marc Gasol 9 million (doubt Memphis matches that).

This leaves us with 8 million left to continue to add pieces.

Felton
Feilds
Wilson
Amare
Gasol

still not done upgrading!

or.......we can spend it all on Melo....and like we saw tonight the team may not be too much better!

Not sure if Gasol really is the answer. I'd place him in plan B territory, so $9M is a bit rich, IMO.

I do agree with your point about Melo, however. Retaining flexibility is a big deal.

There is, mind you, the very valid point that he gives us flexibility, not monetarily, but by salvaging some rest time for STAT, Ray and anyone who is dealing with injuries. That, and the fact that we'd be signing Melo for 3 years, not 5.

I think the league would suffer from a 2 man game between STAT and Melo playing the high post on hand offs as Amar'e and Wil have been doing successfully. I think the Knicks would suffer if we were to give up Fields for Melo.

Check out this for a statistic:

the Knicks outscore their opponents by a margin of 5.7 points per 48 minutes when Fields is on the court. When he is off the court, they are outscored by 7.2 points per 48 minutes, a 12.8-point swing.

The success/hindsight of the trade can't be determined until after it's done.

I dunno!? It's a tough call.

 

[metrocard]

Chandler is a B player. Melo is an A. Melo is a dominant force, offensively, Will at times, plays dominant. But he is not a go to guy. The best teams have multiple go to guys. Lakers have Kobe and Gasol. Boston has Pierce, and Garnett, Mia has Wade and Lebron. Right now, we have Stat. Felton is boss playin right now, but in this system, he can't really be the go to guy, trying to involve everyone. If we land Melo, regardless of lack of size, I believe we step in that upper tier level of teams, simply because or Offense never has to step on the brakes. Even without a backup pg, so long as Melo or Stat are in the game, our offense will be tough to stop. Right now, if we don't build a lead with Stat and Felton on the floor, we either end up losing it, and have to get it back, or flat out get killed.

Melo would allow Stat more rest time, as well as Felton, because we can simply Iso to give them a blow. And so long as we keep Williams, Walker and Gallo, we will have enough shooters around him to keep teams honest. Imagine not being able to double Carmelo??????

Yes, I know we need size. Yes I know we need rebounding. But you have an easier time getting those pieces than a dominant top 5 player in the NBA. You strike now, and lets give it a go in the playoffs. Who knows, maybe a lightbulb turns on in Mozgovs head before the season is out. Maybe we get an Earl Barron to help some. All I know, is if we wanna get serious about a title, we need to get that other top tier go to guy. And the good thing about Melo is, HE WANTS US! When was the last time a top player wanted NY? Oh, STAT! that turned out well

Chandler is better than Melo this season, younger, cheaper and knows this offense better.

Melo is a top 5 player in the NBA? Prove it. Dude isn't even top 15.

Stop buying the hype.

 

[la2ny]

@STEIN_LINE_HQ Follow to earlier tweet: Told again Clips open to moving Kaman but only IF they can upgrade w/right 3-man. More on way in Weekend Dime

Gallo isn't playing and we've looked solid. What we have now with Kaveman would be nice. He's legit 7 footer with a mid range and post game.

 

[SSj4Wingzero]

I'd play Williams more minutes at the 4 than Gallo, have the 2 of them as second unit players with Ronny taking starting minutes in the 1st @ 5.



It's another game of inconsistent, borderline meddling from the refs for us. The deviation between play to play, quarter to quarter calls has been pathetic all year. Add a stricter 'no tolerance' tech rule to that, and the result is this:



Playing in a league of banned emotions. It's absolute shit.



Not sure if Gasol really is the answer. I'd place him in plan B territory, so $9M is a bit rich, IMO.

I do agree with your point about Melo, however. Retaining flexibility is a big deal.

There is, mind you, the very valid point that he gives us flexibility, not monetarily, but by salvaging some rest time for STAT, Ray and anyone who is dealing with injuries. That, and the fact that we'd be signing Melo for 3 years, not 5.

I think the league would suffer from a 2 man game between STAT and Melo playing the high post on hand offs as Amar'e and Wil have been doing successfully. I think the Knicks would suffer if we were to give up Fields for Melo.

Check out this for a statistic:

the Knicks outscore their opponents by a margin of 5.7 points per 48 minutes when Fields is on the court. When he is off the court, they are outscored by 7.2 points per 48 minutes, a 12.8-point swing.

The success/hindsight of the trade can't be determined until after it's done.

I dunno!? It's a tough call.

That probably has more to do with who the Knicks put on the floor instead of Fields than Fields being that good himself.

I mean if Fields isn't in then odds are Toney Douglas is in there chucking up shots

 

[wuchich14]

Chandler is better than Melo this season, younger, cheaper and knows this offense better.

Melo is a top 5 player in the NBA? Prove it. Dude isn't even top 15.

Stop buying the hype.

finally someone said it... i completely agree.. denver doesnt exactly have a bad team built around this guy and there by no means the cream of the crop out west.. i come to this forum to talk KNICKS basketball but its thread after thread about a denver nuggets player that everyone here is obsessed with.. get over it... hes probably goin to jersey... end rant