Talks finally going the right direction...

[paris401]

The union has gone down from 57% to now 51% and it still wasn't enough for the owners. They've been hard set on 50/50 from the start and have done no negotiating on that issue.

the players do not have to accept it. as all other employees in other industries, they can take their skills elsewhere.

the players have many options..greece..turkey..israel.. spain... or even china..

they do not have to accept the last offer from those greedy bastards (the owners)...

 

[Paul1355]

The union has gone down from 57% to now 51% and it still wasn't enough for the owners. They've been hard set on 50/50 from the start and have done no negotiating on that issue.

the union has sacrificed more, i know, but it's because they do not have leverage. They never had leverage. The only leverage they had was saying that they will go play in Europe, problem is they won't get nearly the same salary that the new Owners deal proposes, so that is pointless.
Then the last attempt is to decertify. The players might win but they lose a whole season, fans will dislike them for years to come for being greedy, and it will be even more tragic since the NBA had such a successful season.
The union can also LOSE the battle in court and all of this is pointless. And guess what? Hunter will be fired and Fisher is retiring anyway so the only people that will suffer for all of this is the fans. Hunter and Fisher just sail into the clouds into retirement while we suffered a whole season for no reason! It's pointless!
the video clip I saw of the head members of the union that were NBA players were Eaton Thomas, Maurice Evans, Roger Mason, Derek Fisher....none of these guys are big time players so I don't see how their opinion can be for the entire body of players.

I hope the players realize they have no leverage and saving a season is more important than anything right now. Do it for the fans!

 

[Crazy⑧s]

Decertification is going to happen.

As recent headlines have shown, this was a likelihood since long before the lockout even began.

How unfortunate we are to be fans of a group of owners and players that are completely devoid of any sort of benevolent behaviour.

We created the demigods though, so we shouldn't be surprised about their greed in the slightest.

GAME OVER

 

[Kiyaman]

the union has sacrificed more, i know, but it's because they do not have leverage. They never had leverage. The only leverage they had was saying that they will go play in Europe, problem is they won't get nearly the same salary that the new Owners deal proposes, so that is pointless.
Then the last attempt is to decertify. The players might win but they lose a whole season, fans will dislike them for years to come for being greedy, and it will be even more tragic since the NBA had such a successful season.
The union can also LOSE the battle in court and all of this is pointless. And guess what? Hunter will be fired and Fisher is retiring anyway so the only people that will suffer for all of this is the fans. Hunter and Fisher just sail into the clouds into retirement while we suffered a whole season for no reason! It's pointless!
the video clip I saw of the head members of the union that were NBA players were Eaton Thomas, Maurice Evans, Roger Mason, Derek Fisher....none of these guys are big time players so I don't see how their opinion can be for the entire body of players.

I hope the players realize they have no leverage and saving a season is more important than anything right now. Do it for the fans!

When fans get angry at players for being greedy and stop supporting the
players....the owners net worth will "DECREASE" along with the worth of his
team franchise. If his franchise is worth $325M today....after a no season
and small fan base the following season the owner will be lucky if his team
franchise is worth above $225M.

The leverage has always been on the players side in every sport.

 

[paris401]

If his franchise is worth $325M today....after a no season and small fan base the following season the owner will be lucky if his team franchise is worth above $225M.
The leverage has always been on the players side in every sport.

if there is no season, the worth of a franchise mite ..repeat mite decline... but by 1/3.... i highly doubt it...

and not so sure the players have the leverage as they have in the past...

 

[Kiyaman]

Flipomatic MJ doesnt deserve a post

The clarity of the owners leader is not only Stern but its the same guy who got the players the 57% BRI....a decade later MJ wants to turn the table upside down with a 47% BRI for the players.

MJ is seriously a PR Disaster....as a owner & endorser
http://tinyurl.com/439flbw

His stance as an owner with no infuence in the 2010 star FA offseason
was a lost more than a gain.....picking-up no star FA, and losing all his
star role-players who wanted to be traded.
Tyson Chandler
Gerald Wallace
Stephen Jackson

Another angry owner!!!

 

[nyk_nyk]

Leverage goes to whoever isn't dependent on an NBA paycheck to live. That would be the owners.

Decertification, if really an option, should have happened in July.

 

[tiger0330]

Just reading on a website there are 7 teams in pro sports that are close to bankruptcy ala the LA Dodgers and 3 of them are NBA teams, the Pacers, Kings and T-Wolves. The players need to use their heads and not their hearts in making a decision about this contract because there are teams losing money that might not mind losing a whole season to get what they want.

 

[Weissenberg]

@nyk_nyk: the BRI split of the now expired CBA was irrational, Tyler and Grier clearly explained why is that so: why have past CBAs been so favorable to the players? The first rational and acceptable offer of the BRI split the union brought to the owners was 53% in its players favor, while the league opted for 47%, which means both parties made some concessions, the players went down 2 points to 51% and the league went up 3%, in my opinion the 50/50 split that's now on the table is a very fair deal for the union.

 

[Oldtimer]

Labor Dispute?

The current NBA situation is hardly a typical labor dispute between owners/corporations and employees. The NBA owners are closer to typical capitalist owners, but the players are not typical "employees." And the distinction is not simply in the amount of wages involved, but also in the spread in wages among the players. In the typical situation, the employees are more unified in the benefits each will receive from the negotiated contract.

If you think this is a typical labor dispute, ask yourself whether the players would refuse to cross the picket lines in a labor dispute between the Garden and the union workers at the Garden.

The BRI is a gross sum of money. The BRI has not yet hit $4 billion, but that is a number that is an arithmetically convenient sum which a current complete season might reach. Fifty-two percent of $4 billion is $2 billion and $80 million. ($2,080,000,000). Fifty percent is $2 billion. On the union's bottom line -- 52% -- the players will get $80 million a year more than on the owners' bottom line.

On the 30 teams there are approximately 450 players. The $80 million a year difference comes out to less than $3 million extra for each team and and an average of about $180 thousand less for each player. Is this relatively paltry sum worth a season?

As I understand it, the owners want a ten year contract but have agreed to an opt out for the players after 7 years. Seven times $80 million is $560 million. So if the players accept 50% they will lose, over 7 years, $560 million. If there is no season, the current players will lose in the single missed season $2 billion. How the hell are they going to make this up in the next contract?

Why are issues other than BRI relevant to the players as a whole? No matter what those issues, the players are going to split the same amount of money. From the players' perspective all that is left over is how the fixed percentage is split among the players.

Since the owners want some parity between the big markets and the small markets, they want to contract the amounts payable to the stars.

I see some real conflicts among the players. The non-star rank and file -- plainly the majority -- need the current income and surely want to play for pay. The stars and their agents do not want to contract the salaries at the top.

The union does not want to put it to a vote for good reason.

I have no sympathy for the owners, but as as long as they are willing to sit out a year, they have the leverage. And I do not have a lot of sympathy for the players. The real victims are the fans and particularly the many relatively low income earners who depend on 'working" the games.

Decertification is incredibly risky for both the players and the owners, but moreso, I believe, for the players. Someone has got to blink and very soon. I do not think it is going to be the owners.

 

[Weissenberg]

NBPA rejected the offer... so let's hope there will be at least a 2012/13 season.

 

[Crazy⑧s]

The current NBA situation is hardly a typical labor dispute between owners/corporations and employees. The NBA owners are closer to typical capitalist owners, but the players are not typical "employees." And the distinction is not simply in the amount of wages involved, but also in the spread in wages among the players. In the typical situation, the employees are more unified in the benefits each will receive from the negotiated contract.

If you think this is a typical labor dispute, ask yourself whether the players would refuse to cross the picket lines in a labor dispute between the Garden and the union workers at the Garden.

The BRI is a gross sum of money. The BRI has not yet hit $4 billion, but that is a number that is an arithmetically convenient sum which a current complete season might reach. Fifty-two percent of $4 billion is $2 billion and $80 million. ($2,080,000,000). Fifty percent is $2 billion. On the union's bottom line -- 52% -- the players will get $80 million a year more than on the owners' bottom line.

On the 30 teams there are approximately 450 players. The $80 million a year difference comes out to less than $3 million extra for each team and and an average of about $180 thousand less for each player. Is this relatively paltry sum worth a season?

As I understand it, the owners want a ten year contract but have agreed to an opt out for the players after 7 years. Seven times $80 million is $560 million. So if the players accept 50% they will lose, over 7 years, $560 million. If there is no season, the current players will lose in the single missed season $2 billion. How the hell are they going to make this up in the next contract?

Why are issues other than BRI relevant to the players as a whole? No matter what those issues, the players are going to split the same amount of money. From the players' perspective all that is left over is how the fixed percentage is split among the players.

Since the owners want some parity between the big markets and the small markets, they want to contract the amounts payable to the stars.

I see some real conflicts among the players. The non-star rank and file -- plainly the majority -- need the current income and surely want to play for pay. The stars and their agents do not want to contract the salaries at the top.

The union does not want to put it to a vote for good reason.

I have no sympathy for the owners, but as as long as they are willing to sit out a year, they have the leverage. And I do not have a lot of sympathy for the players. The real victims are the fans and particularly the many relatively low income earners who depend on 'working" the games.

Decertification is incredibly risky for both the players and the owners, but moreso, I believe, for the players. Someone has got to blink and very soon. I do not think it is going to be the owners.

:aplause:

Absolute Da Vinci of a post, Oldtimer.

Is that you, Chris Sheridan?

Quit your day job and work for NBA on TNT as the voice of reason.

 

[Kiyaman]

sshi

How long will "Decertification" Last? December?....or June? to August?


The players are giving thier fate to the "Peoples-Court" wid Lawyerss to argue the first proposals offered in July. WOW

 

[Weissenberg]

I am definately not a specialist of US labor law (due to many language errors I make you probably noticed I'm not American), but if I remember correctly after 30% of the players signed a petition for decertification it takes about 60 days for the NLRB to organize the decertification election and just after that (obviously if 50%+ more vote for decertification) the NLRB removes the union and both sides can start fighting in courts, which can last several months...

 

[Sprewell-Houston]

NBPA rejected the offer... so let's hope there will be at least a 2012/13 season.

I'm not sure if I ever want to see their faces again to be honest....Angry is the word...very angry.

I'd instantly shoot Fisher and Hunter if I was given amnesty...they ruined everything with their greed.

I hope some of them get into financial trouble over the next year, Eddy Curry style. Those greedy assholes!

 

[pat]

But isn't it weird that the employees want to earn more than their employers?

Why is that weird? In every company it is just normal that the employee's (as a whole) earn more than their employers. This is why you differentiate between turnover/revenue and profits. The profits are the share the entrepreneur can either keep or reinvest after the labour force (here: players, (arena) staff,) got their wages and the rents have been paid. Additionally we are talking BRI, which means there is also non-BRI for the owners.

 

[Weissenberg]

@SH: well, in my opinion at this point the owners could make some more concessions on system issues just to try to salvage the season. I've been on the league's side from the beginning, but it seems the players with their stubbornness won't move any further to make a deal, which means it's about time to give them some more $$$, full access to mid-level exception and sign-and-trade for taxpayers + 0.5% over the 50/50 split in players' favor would make it done...

 

[Oldtimer]

Settlement

The players, it appears, have made a major concession in indicating a willingness to accept a 50/50 BRI split. The needed resolution concerning "system issues" is perhaps a face saving opportunity.

There was an aphorism on a Salada tea tag that I recall noting many years ago -- "Diplomacy is the art of letting the other person have your way." The owners can achieve a settlement by appearing to "concede" on some system issues. It will permit the players to save some face.

Here is another Salada tea tag aphorism that might be applicable -- "If you do not have an alternative, you do not have a problem." I do not believe the players have any reasonable alternative.

From an individual player's perspective, the system issues are important. Each player has an interest in maximizing his contract amount and the duration of his contract. But those issues are somewhat less important to the players as a group because the same BRI percentage will be distributed to the players as a group no matter what the individual contracts may be. Every Jerome James or Eddy Curry wants a long term guaranteed contract. But if they underperform and no longer deserve what their contracts require, they are not taking money from the owners, they are taking it from the players as a group.

 

[Weissenberg]

Well, as someone already said, you should leave your current job and start covering NBA for TNT or ESPN, I've never thought of the players rejecting the offer just to save some face, accept any concessions the league offers and finally make a deal, that would seem a fair compromise and not a result of the players being pushed into the corner... The meeting between both parties is scheduled at 1:00PM, so let's hope you're right.
:gony:

 

[Kiyaman]

We fans has been kept ignorant of the NBA CBA negotiation

We dont know the "REAL ISSUES" of why the two parties has not reach an agreement to end this lockout. The media has been focusing everything on the economic proposal of the BRI % between players and owners. The NBA league (Stern) controls what information can be released to the press from the negotiations. The BRI % is just one-issue of the many six-issues holding up the lockout. All the fans of big-market teams and fans of a few small-market teams are not interested in the new "Super Luxury Tax" included in the new system. Creating a new system that will force the NBA Championship Dallas Mavs to go from paying $50M in luxury tax to $150M luxury tax, and that doesnt include the resigning of two of their players. Outrageous! It has been noted several times throughout the lockout of three teams losing money in the previous season....these same three teams in the past decade has had several top-10 draft-picks anounce publically of not wanting to be selected in the draft by these three teams. The refusal was for a good reason.