Randle out for rest of the season:

[Dark Raider]

Well by now most know that Randle is gone for the season. This creates a lot of questions.
1. Can you win a championship without Randle? Most know the answer…
2. What are trying to accomplish without him??
3. Is it worth bringing back OG and MRob for just short run in the playoffs??
4. THIS QUESTION IS MOST IMPORTANT ONE.
Who is responsible for Randle injury? We all know the answer to that question.
Thib’s coaching style certainly comes into play with that question. Knowing that the Knicks weren’t going to win a championship even if Randle didn’t get hurt shows Thib’s creativity as a coach.
5. Does this speed up the need to find a #1 option in the offseason?
6. Paid a 150 mil for Brunson did it answer the need everybody thought it would?
7. Who has ‘Move the Needle’ of this team Randle, Brunson or OG? Maybe someone else?? OR
Has the ‘Needle move at All’??

Of course I have strong opinions on all the questions but I’ll wait for some responses if any…
Rady, I’m really interested in your take on all the questions.

 

[rady]

Sup, Dark, that's an intriguing list, i'll try to answer best i can:

1, 2: With this current roster, I don't believe we have a chance against the Celtics, whom we would probably meet if we get past the first round. Does this mean that we should think about tanking the playoffs and give up on a fight just because we don't have everybody healthy? I don't think so. (3.) But if OG is able to make a comeback, then I think it's all worth it. We already know how this team plays when OG is on the court, and I believe he is the most important piece missing, a bigger factor than Robinson and probably Randle too. We beat the crap out of Sixers when he made his return, so I do believe that with him ready, we'll have a fair chance even against Boston. I'm okay with Robinson playing 15 minutes off the bench to keep Hartenstein's stamina strong.

Now, for your question (4.) about who is responsible for Randle's injury, my answer is injuries happen all the time, no matter who is the head coach. Who was to blame when Embiid busted his knee a couple of months ago? I can understand that the way Thibs is running his teams can sometimes lead to overuse of his players, and I personally am not a fan of that strategy. At the same time, I also believe that we have had a deeper bench since January, and Achiuwa could have supported the frontcourt to limit JR's playing time to 40+ minutes every night. Also, maybe it would have been best if Randle underwent surgery as soon as possible instead of working his way back, just to get hurt during practice five weeks ago and go back to square one. But sometimes you just have to make a quick decision, and it's not always easy when you're under pressure.

5. Yeah, the offseason was always an option, but now I think it's not in Randle's favor should we be able to sign someone like Paul George. I also am curious if we have seen Randle for the last time in a Knick uniform or not.

6. Yes, definitely.
7. It's Brunson, no doubt about it.

 

[Dark Raider]

1. Know doubt most would like to think the Knicks are Championship caliber. Sadly this is not the case. Getting rid of Scott Perry, R.J. Barrett and IQ push us closer to a team with potentials. We are not there yet but if the BB people are running things then we could be on our way.
2. I don’t think it anything to accomplish with a playoff run. Let the BB people see what they can accomplish over the summer. Target Murray SG from the Hawks. However I don’t see him co-existing JB so the 150 mil PG has to go. I know that most don’t agree but he is invincible if he doesn’t have the ball.
3. Well, I answered that in #2.
4. Thib’s coaching style has not changed from his previous coaching jobs. He has a pattern that he feels fits every game and every situation. Doesn’t recognize the ‘Hot Hand’ or who is hot and who is not.
Thib’s is responsible for Randle getting hurt.
5. I don’t think there is a #1 option out there for the Knicks. No to George and any of those ‘Has Been’. Don’t waste money like we did on Brunson. Change an offensive scheme but no championship!!
6. Well think I answered that in #5.
7. This one is easy for me. I waited after OG trade to see if this team looked different and it did. So OG is my ‘Needle Mover’!!

 

[Kiyaman]

Wsup Dark .. your questions are very easy to answer, but all my answers would be our Locker room In-House Politics from our Dear HC Thibs dividing the Knicks players each season. That's why I was so upset when assistant HC Mike Woodson left after one season with Thibs.
I recall a week after the Knicks vs Miami Heats series a few ESPN announcers mention the Knicks being contenders if the Knicks didn't have so many hurt bodies during the playoff, especially to our all-star Randle.

1) We are a first round playoff team having only the Nova Trio & HC Thibs NBA playoff experience.
2) Could the Nova Trio win regular season games without Mitch & Randle.
3) Mitch know his action early in the season will have him traded in offseason, OG don't like the division of players by the HC so he's leaning on 60/40 on not resigning. However, Mitch and OG may suit up to win two playoff games then go out with reinjury.
4) The last 3/half seasons Randle's 36 plus minute game performance have been the only durable superman player in HC Thibs career. Usually Randle be out 1 or maybe 2 games from an injury. Randles shoulder injury we all watched looked like a mild injury to me.
I thought Randle injury would keep him off the court for a week or maybe 2 weeks.
Especially, when the Knicks media was hushed bout the Knicks all-star injury.
When Randall caught Covid 19, every teams media and scouts were talking bout it non-stop.
5) The Knicks players that are FA in the offseason don't seem like they are gonna resign, unless their new Knicks contract are twice their worth. I'm only interested in the Knicks players that asked to be traded in the offseason.
6) No! Brunson had the Knicks hire his father, plus trade for his college teammate, and sign another of his college teammate.
7) The Knicks had a 47 win season having four 22 year old players in their rotation last season. Yet, all the credit was given to Brunson, Randle, and HC Thibs. Our midseason game wins we owe to Josh Hart.

 

[Kiyaman]

Don't get me wrong I like Josh Hart's vocal leadership on the team, plus Hart's all-around hustle performance on the court doing the extra things to keep us in the game have been Dynamic.
What I don't like bout Josh Hart are several things like ..
Taking Quickley's 6th man job at the start of the season.
Being Randle backup PF.
Then helping Brunson take Grimes starter job for Divo.
Then Hart did his best to take OG Anunoby playing time minutes in each of OG 14 games as a Knicks while Precious was becoming a good backup for Randle.
And for the past two months (Feb/March) both our starter forwards (OG and Randle) been side line with injuries, and Josh Hart took Randle place at averaging 44 minutes of playing time per game at both forward position.
And when the return of center Mitch Robinson, our Josh Hart goes and play a 48 minute straight game to show Mitch this is now Josh Hart Knicks team.
For those who didn't notice in the Knicks last 10 games our quiet SF/PF Precious Achuwa playing time minutes been decreasing and decreasing to under 20 minutes of playing time a game in a 8 man rotation.
Reminds me of what Randle did to Obi Toppin.
The Knicks durable superman Randle been refusing to go get surgery for two months getting healthy for a playoff run, but after watching Josh Hart take complete control over HC Tom Thibs job as the new Player-HC on the court by staying in the game for 48 minutes, then 49 minutes in the overtime loss to Spurs.
Randle decided it's best for him to go fight the pain of surgery, rather than fight Josh Hart and the NOVA Trio for his position in the Knicks rotation.

 

[rady]

Don’t waste money like we did on Brunson. Change an offensive scheme but no championship!!
7. This one is easy for me. I waited after OG trade to see if this team looked different and it did. So OG is my ‘Needle Mover’!!

Money waste on Brunson? That's interesting considering that he's been without a single doubt the best point guard we've had in nearly 25 years. I'll even put him ahead of Marbury simply because we're actually a winning team. No dissprespect to Steph, he got here at the wrong time and maybe if the Knicks weren't such a horrible organization back then he could have done more.

 

[Kiyaman]

In a way, it is and it isn't a waste when u really do the science .. It took 3 PG (Luka, Dinwiddie, and Brunson) to get the Mavs team to the WCF.
Having Randle, Brunson and Quickley switching-up running the point in the post season games would be a trip to the ECF.

Brunson want to be the only PG in the Knicks 48 minute rotation.
The same as Randle did bringing the ball down court the 2 seasons before Brunson arrive, and then their was Melo too.
Is our star guard selfish ???
Brunson do not pass the ball to our young PG McBride to run the point on NBA players, not even in the first half of a game. No Quickley or Randle to run the point in the post season games, just Brunson !!!

 

[skisloper1]

damn y'all are harsh.

 

[skisloper1]

I do think its time for Optimism.

fine to agree or disagree with MGMT but the Knicks are competing for a top spot in the East.
I do agree with the sentiment that its and NBA title or bust.

Knicks heading to next season have a large number of first rounders, A good trade exception, the choice to sign OG< expiring contracts and the highest salary is 28 million.

You cannot argue that's an and thing. The Villanova Trio all have balanced contracts they would get anywhere else...No overpayment.

 

[Dark Raider]

Money waste on Brunson? That's interesting considering that he's been without a single doubt the best point guard we've had in nearly 25 years. I'll even put him ahead of Marbury simply because we're actually a winning team. No dissprespect to Steph, he got here at the wrong time and maybe if the Knicks weren't such a horrible organization back then he could have done more.

Put Brunson in the same flawed offense scheme as they put Frank then see how he would have done. Never giving Frank a chance to run an offense suited for his talent. But we can hire Brunson daddy, change the offense scheme, give him 150 mil. Something is wrong with that picture!!
I’m surprised at your view of Marbury. Never saw anything good or even potentially good in him. We wasn’t winning any championships with him.
Agreed about the state of the organization.

 

[Dark Raider]

My BIGGEST PROBLEM is that things are changed so some players can be successful. That should be the general consensus when you draft or trade for a player.
First thing find a player or players that can be built around to win a championship. Easier said than done or written!!
I said many times there and in other forums that ‘PG was not our problem’. To this day we don’t know who could have been a good PG if given the chance that they given Brunson. The question is why?? Certainly we are not running the same offense scheme than we have in the past… WHY??
Did the BB people make the decision to get Brunson and change the offense? The two don’t go together. BB people trade RJ and IQ…. very smart move.
Now if we are trying to win a championship…. then let hear from everyone that believes we can win one with Brunson at the PG??

If we had changed the offense and let some of those other PG run it maybe you wouldn’t have to hire daddy and spend 150 mil on a midget PG!!

 

[Kiyaman]

I do think its time for Optimism.

fine to agree or disagree with MGMT but the Knicks are competing for a top spot in the East.
I do agree with the sentiment that its and NBA title or bust.

Knicks heading to next season have a large number of first rounders, A good trade exception, the choice to sign OG< expiring contracts and the highest salary is 28 million.

You cannot argue that's an and thing. The Villanova Trio all have balanced contracts they would get anywhere else...No overpayment.

Wsup Ski .... We are in a good situation, and our future as a team is bright.
I just don't see it to bright with draft picks .. although I complain bout RJ Barrett .. He turned into a consistent (scoring) role-player.
And Quickley's 6th man performance we could've used another 4 years, having Brunson.
And Grimes & Toppin were great role-players.

My optimism were the Knicks last season (47 win season) rotation to compete again in this 2024 postseason with the addition of McBride & Sims.

 

[skisloper1]

Trading for OG required the Knicks to let go of RJ and quickly. Since coming to the Knicks OG has the highest +/- of any kinks player in 5 years.

Dark.....Frank did not make it on Dallas.

 

[Dark Raider]

Ski… Dallas had nothing invested in Frank. We ‘the Knicks’ had a high 1st round pick invested in Frank not Brunson. We changed the offense for Brunson not Frank, Why??
If you don’t know I’ll be glad to tell you!!

 

[Kiyaman]

All I can mention bout the OG trade, "is OG is an unrestricted FA in 2024 offseason.
The Randle & OG lineup made the Knicks perform like the team to beat having one of the 5 top scoring-closers in the NBA .. Jalen Brunson.
Recall .. The FA VanFleet left Toronto Raptors without looking back to sign with Houston Rockets (tax).
OG change agents (CAA), he was leaving Raptors too.
And the Raptors star player Trade (Pascal Siakam) in Feb. .. What did the Raptors get inreturn?

It was Dallis HC Rick Carlisle who wanted to draft Frank for the Mavs, to coach a young Frank's defense like he did Billups in Detroit, and now Haliburton.
The Mavs hired a translator-coach to help develop Frank weeks before the draft.
The Knicks drafted Frank, having 4 Tier-3 PG on the roster, plus GM fire Knicks HC (Fiz) in the middle of the season.
Plus in 4 season, the Knicks never hired the translator-coach for Frank and the coaching-staff.

The Knicks did hire Brunson pops to be part of the Knicks coaching staff weeks before signing Brunson.

 

[Dark Raider]

What you have are people who think they know something about BB but THEY DON’T!!
You have people with egos BIG AS YANKEE STADIUM trying to prove they know more than the person that has won more championships than anyone…. Do I need to say that again!!
Those people destroyed more good players than they developed. The Knicks were in no position to have that kind of environment in the Front Office. You need competition in practice to put the best Knicks team on the floor that void of a Superstar.
They took us to the bottom of the league and fools followed them. Every hair-brain scheme they could think of they implement. For example— PG bring the ball up to half court and give the ball to either forward and then go to corner and stand there.
Never develop a jump shot for your starting center.., never a play run to get him involved in that kind offense scheme.

Those are just a few things from those people. There words at the end of every season was ‘it will be better next year and just wait until he turns 25’…

 

[Dark Raider]

What is so interesting about Knicks. The two players that some had problems with R.J. and Randle are not on this team currently. Randle because of injuries and RJ because of being traded( thank God).
Even though I’m not a big fan of the current makeup it is so much better without RJ. Something some of us have been saying for over 4 years.
How this is playing say something about those of us that thought this was better off without both of them. We obviously saw what those in control didn’t see or chose not to see.
As I have said many times that Randle isn’t the problem on this team…. And I stand by that statement.
Does this team have a chance for a championship…. I don’t think so but miracles can happen.

 

[Kiyaman]

Will we miss Randle in the playoffs?
HellYear !!!
Especially, having the new addition OG & Precious multi-position at both forward position (Defense).
Plus having both centers Mitch & Hartenstein to MAN the glass (Defense & 2nd chance shots).
Playoff opponents would not be able to double Randle and Brunson having both in a lineup.
Now, it will be if we had Randle .. blah blah blah

 

[Dark Raider]

Who is taking the last shoot in crunch time?? The 150 million dollar man , of course!!
Hope he can Earn his money.

 

[Kiyaman]

Who is taking the last shoot in crunch time?? The 150 million dollar man , of course!!
Hope he can Earn his money.

Brunson's 2022-23 performance going down the stretch of games during regular season won the (Last-Shot) CLOSER job.
However, that became the 2023-24 Knicks BIG Locker room dispute they kept out the media.
Who Team is this ???
Randle?
Brunson?
Nova Trio?
It was Randle's team from 2019-23 ....
Last season, Randle never got upset when Brunson took all of the last shots of each quarter.

This season, I got upset having 4 top scorers (Quickley, Barrett, Randle, and Brunson) in our rotation, and our PG Brunson shooting for a 60 point, or 40 point game every night (Shoot-First!)!
And our HC Thibs doing nothing about sharing the ball .. Nor did Thibs write-up any ball-movement plays for each of our 4 scorers to start the 2023-24 season, after our previous visit to the 2nd round of the playoffs to lose the series to an unselfish ball-movement Heats team.

It's one thing to be your team Closer shooter, and it's another thing being the team PG of getting (All) your teammates involved in the offense scoring throughout a 82 game season.
How many points will Brunson average in the postseason games?
We are going into the 2023-24 postseason having a
29 pt Brunson, and
15 pt Divo, and
14 pt OG. and
10 pt Bojan, and
9 pt Josh Hart and
8 pt McBride, and
8 pt IHart, and
8 pt Precious
Knicks team 101 point game.
Our defense have to hold opponents under 100 points.