It's got to be the Triangle

Broadway · Mar 23, 2015

welcometonycity said:
Smh this site is dead I miss the old days

Posters who do this contribute nothing. You took the time to post this instead of adding valued content to the site? No thoughts about the season or what to look for in the summer?

tiger0330 · Mar 23, 2015

Broadway said:
Posters who do this contribute nothing. You took the time to post this instead of adding valued content to the site? No thoughts about the season or what to look for in the summer?

Completely agree Broadway. You have been doing your part in contributing with your well informed threads and posts. The site admin Rady needs to do more, Crazy8s really works hard on his site with his game threads and video work. Rady was saying he was in the process of updating the site but there haven't been any changes so I'm not sure what his plans are for KOL.

tiger0330 · Mar 23, 2015

Interesting article on Fisher tweaking the Knicks offense to incorporate more PnR. Can't happen soon enough for me and I for one would like to see the triangle scrapped completely except for the occasional novelty play.

More pick-and-roll coming for Knicks?
March, 23, 2015
Mar 23
11:00
AM ET
By Ian Begley | ESPNNewYork.com

NEW YORK -- It's Friday night in Philadelphia. The New York Knicks are down by 18 with about 25 seconds to play in yet another blowout loss.

Langston Galloway dribbles around a Quincy Acy screen to his left. Acy takes a few steps toward the basket as Galloway pulls up for an open jump shot. The shot clangs off the rim, ending what on the surface is a nondescript play in a season full of them for the Knicks.

But that sequence -- which came in garbage time during the Knicks’ loss to the 76ers -- is an example of one of the few relevant on-court developments for New York this season; a slight but significant modernization of the triangle offense.

Derek Fisher’s Knicks are using the pick-and-roll to generate offense nearly twice as often as Phil Jackson’s Los Angeles Lakers teams did.

Fewer than 10 percent of the plays run by Jackson’s Lakers used screens between 2006 and 2011, per Synergy Sports.

Entering play Sunday, the Knicks had used the pick-and-roll on 18 percent of their plays, per Synergy. And they've done so with greater frequency over the course of the season.

Fisher, predictably, downplayed this development when asked about it last week. But it’s fair to view it as an example of the first-year coach putting his stamp on the offense that Jackson made famous.

“That wasn't something that we relied on to be successful [in Los Angeles]. That’s not something we will rely on [in New York], either," Fisher said. "But I think over time the game has evolved and some things have changed. Based on who your team is you have to find ways to get penetration. So you try and tweak and adjust and adapt.”

Hence, we may see more pick and roll for New York.

In the first five games of the season, the Knicks used pick-and-rolls on 12.7 percent of their plays. Over a five-game stretch in early January, the club used the pick-and-roll in 19.8 percent of their plays.

In the five games preceding Sunday’s game against Toronto, the play was used 23.5 percent of the time.

“When it's getting late in the shot clock, that's when we try to use it to our advantage,” Galloway said.

Added Shane Larkin: “You've got to learn the basics, you've got to learn the automatic [reads] and once you do that, Coach can start showing you where the pick-and-rolls can be effective in the offense.

"Once the basics are taken away, the pick-and-roll stuff is what we’re going to get into.”

Larkin says that added dimension has helped the Knicks create offense late in the shot clock.

“I think early in the year a lot of our offensive struggles were because we were just set on running the basic stuff in the triangle," he said. "And when something was taken away we were just kind out there looking like, now what?”

Now, the Knicks turn to the pick-and-roll.

None of this is being pointed out to suggest that the pick-and-roll is a cure-all for New York’s offense. Far from it.

Entering Thursday’s game against the San Antonio Spurs, the Knicks had the second-lowest per-game point total off of pick-and-rolls in the NBA. They also ranked in the bottom three in overall offensive efficiency.

Also, the Knicks aren't running a ton of pick-and-roll relative to the rest of the league.

Entering play Thursday, they’d run the second-lowest percentage of pick-and-roll plays in the NBA (defined as plays that finish either with a foul, shot or turnover).

But the idea that Fisher is running the pick-and-roll with more frequency than Jackson is significant.

For one, it’s an example of Fisher tweaking Jackson’s offense to fit his personnel, something both men have said Fisher has the freedom to do.

Secondly, it could indicate that Fisher is open to morphing the triangle into an offense that’s more in line with the pick-and-roll-heavy attacks of today’s NBA.

“That's my job to do that,” Fisher said of tweaking the offense during an interview last month.

“I'm not trying to duplicate or carbon copy exactly what [Jackson] did. The same way he didn't do that to Tex Winter [a Chicago Bulls assistant under Jackson], the same way Tex didn't do that to the coach and the folks that he developed it from and how he added the innovation and his own ideas. So it's my job to do that now.

"He hired me to coach the team, so I have to do what I think is best for these guys, and we're going to continue to evolve in that fashion."

Could that mean more pick-and-roll plays next season for the Knicks? Stay tuned.

Broadway · Mar 23, 2015

tiger0330 said:
Completely agree Broadway. You have been doing your part in contributing with your well informed threads and posts. The site admin Rady needs to do more, Crazy8s really works hard on his site with his game threads and video work. Rady was saying he was in the process of updating the site but there haven't been any changes so I'm not sure what his plans are for KOL.

There were some posters from Ultimateknicks.com who spoke about this site unfavorably. Said the site was going down in flames. Didn't know why as it appeared they weren't a contributor here. Their lurking ways are as toxic as those they feel infiltrate a site for who they deem as trolls non-fans. Primarily based on differences of opinions morphing into Fan-Boy mob mentality

You have some real D-bags across forums from Mods to Posters, who add nothing but drivel, are looking to be a pop personality-attention whores, or to flex their authority through double standards and mockeries. I try to inform the best I can. There are plenty things I'm not as keen on as liked to be but growth should always be embraced along with opinions from all no matter how polarizing they may be. Some get caught up in chasing contributors off the site if their opinion doesn't follow a status quo or they threaten to leave.

TKF post here and he has major credibility as a former mod back to Realgm(high traffic site) inception days. He can probably speak more to the corruptible ways behind the scenes.

I've been on other sites too such as Insidehoops and Scout and they all have a common thread of agendas. This appears to be one of the first sites I've seen with no hidden agendas. Not sure what Rady plans are for this site. I'm sure there would be some willing to help with modding and adding to ideas for content and site layout if need be.

I was thinking of using Twitter more often to drum up some interests here, there are ways to get activity stirred up and the best way of doing that.... bringing valuable intel to the site to be expounded upon.

Broadway · Mar 23, 2015

It was so apparent before the roster was officially set the team needed variations-modifications within the system. So why is Fisher speaking about tweaks and whatnot less than 15gms left to be played? Also why so much talk about offense in general?

Remember how much heat D'Antoni took for not being a defensive specialist or committing enough attention to it? What about Fisher? We're downright awful defensively and Fisher is making almost as much money as D'Antoni except without all the wins as a coach that came with him.

tiger0330 · Mar 23, 2015

Broadway said:
There were some posters from Ultimateknicks.com who spoke about this site unfavorably. Said the site was going down in flames. Didn't know why as it appeared they weren't a contributor here. Their lurking ways are as toxic as those they feel infiltrate a site for who they deem as trolls non-fans. Primarily based on differences of opinions morphing into Fan-Boy mob mentality

You have some real D-bags across forums from Mods to Posters, who add nothing but drivel, are looking to be a pop personality-attention whores, or to flex their authority through double standards and mockeries. I try to inform the best I can. There are plenty things I'm not as keen on as liked to be but growth should always be embraced along with opinions from all no matter how polarizing they may be. Some get caught up in chasing contributors off the site if their opinion doesn't follow a status quo or they threaten to leave.

TKF post here and he has major credibility as a former mod back to Realgm(high traffic site) inception days. He can probably speak more to the corruptible ways behind the scenes.

I've been on other sites too such as Insidehoops and Scout and they all have a common thread of agendas. This appears to be one of the first sites I've seen with no hidden agendas. Not sure what Rady plans are for this site. I'm sure there would be some willing to help with modding and adding to ideas for content and site layout if need be.

I was thinking of using Twitter more often to drum up some interests here, there are ways to get activity stirred up and the best way of doing that.... bringing valuable intel to the site to be expounded upon.

That would be great if you did bring more fans to this site. Though I think it's primarily up to Rady since he owns the site and pays the freight, I think the site could use more news, video work and more knowledgable posters like yourself. I post on ClutchFans as well and they have a ton of stat experts and BimaThug who's a cap space and CBA expert which brings a lot of bball fans to the site.

tiger0330 · Mar 23, 2015

Broadway said:
It was so apparent before the roster was officially set the team needed variations-modifications within the system. So why is Fisher speaking about tweaks and whatnot less than 15gms left to be played? Also why so much talk about offense in general?

Remember how much heat D'Antoni took for not being a defensive specialist or committing enough attention to it? What about Fisher? We're downright awful defensively and Fisher is making almost as much money as D'Antoni except without all the wins as a coach that came with him.

You don't have to coach D when you have a HOF PG in Steve Nash saying you revolutionized and changed the game on the offensive side of the ball. If you think about it though, you have to admit Nash has a point, that SSOL Suns ball was exciting bball and made guys like Casey Jacobson into seemingly good players.

Broadway · Mar 23, 2015

tiger0330 said:
You don't have to coach D when you have a HOF PG in Steve Nash saying you revolutionized and changed the game on the offensive side of the ball. If you think about it though, you have to admit Nash has a point, that SSOL Suns ball was exciting bball and made guys like Casey Jacobson into seemingly good players.

Last I checked we don't have anything close to a HOF, 2-Time MVP, Prime Nash. You have to coach defensive principles-system constantly. Popovich does and he's only won 5 Chips doing so. He has a few HOFers. Fisher what is he hanging his hat on defensively? Maybe we could have won more games if there was a mental defensive foundation laid. Fisher will be a part of the worse season in franchise History. The defensive stats are just as atrocious if not more so than our offensive numbers.

There's entertainment value and then there's champions.... if you can get both great but I'd rather see the latter. Watching the team I root for win all the marbles is the Peak of entertainment value even if won in quote unquote ugly-boring fashion because the appreciation runs so much deeper.

My main point Fisher will not get a free pass for not showing he has visible fingerprints on defensive schemes, if D'Antoni got the biz so should he. You could even say Woodson got toasted for not showing what he was supposedly good at surface.

Kiyaman · Mar 24, 2015

Broadway said:
Posters who do this contribute nothing. You took the time to post this instead of adding valued content to the site? No thoughts about the season or what to look for in the summer?

:agreed: 100% .... I wouldnt have respond to the comment.
Phil Jackson action has every Knicks Forum site GHOST!!!
Crazy 8 site too

welcometonycity · Mar 24, 2015

Broadway said:
Posters who do this contribute nothing. You took the time to post this instead of adding valued content to the site? No thoughts about the season or what to look for in the summer?

But you joined in 2013? Lol the negativity by new comers ^ is what killed this site.
I understand your a new comer and protecting your favorite site but I wasn't even referencing you clown.
Sit your ass down child.

Lmao poor guy

Salute to Clyde and others for still posting here!!
Unfortunately will never be the same though....

nykfp.com place to be come now!

shyt dead here only like 10 posters!!!!!!!!

tiger0330 · Mar 24, 2015

Kiyaman said:
:agreed: 100% .... I wouldnt have respond to the comment.
Phil Jackson action has every Knicks Forum site GHOST!!!
Crazy 8 site too

Where is Metrocard when you need him. htr10 being in DC pretty much ends the season for KOL since he posted most of the game threads, I may do one for the last game when the final numbers are in for how bad this Knick team has been. We have to win 8 more games of the remaining 11 to avoid the worst season ever. More likely we go 3-8 rather than 8-3 to wind up with 17 wins.

Never would have imagined a season this bad with Dolan hiring Jackson. This season was worse than any Scott Layden, Isiah Thomas or Glen Grunwald team and to add insult to injury Dolan had to pay a combined 17M for Jackson and Fisher to do it. I am definitely not giving Jackson a pass if we have a below .500 team next year, I don't want to hear any excuses about Rome wasn't built in a day next year either.

tiger0330 · Mar 24, 2015

welcometonycity said:
But you joined in 2013? Lol the negativity by new comers ^ is what killed this site.
I understand your a new comer and protecting your favorite site but I wasn't even referencing you clown.
Sit your ass down child.

Lmao poor guy

Salute to Clyde and others for still posting here!!
Unfortunately will never be the same though....

nykfp.com place to be come now!

shyt dead here only like 10 posters!!!!!!!!

You posted twice to rag members and the site. Why not post your opinion on the subject of the thread, the triangle or not post at all.

Broadway · Mar 24, 2015

tiger0330 said:
Where is Metrocard when you need him. htr10 being in DC pretty much ends the season for KOL since he posted most of the game threads, I may do one for the last game when the final numbers are in for how bad this Knick team has been. We have to win 8 more games of the remaining 11 to avoid the worst season ever. More likely we go 3-8 rather than 8-3 to wind up with 17 wins.

Never would have imagined a season this bad with Dolan hiring Jackson. This season was worse than any Scott Layden, Isiah Thomas or Glen Grunwald team and to add insult to injury Dolan had to pay a combined 17M for Jackson and Fisher to do it. I am definitely not giving Jackson a pass if we have a below .500 team next year, I don't want to hear any excuses about Rome wasn't built in a day next year either.

You could argue this was Jackson's second season as an exec. He was hired in March of last yr but was consulting the team since around January or slightly before. So one could ask why wasn't Jackson further ahead of the tear down if this wasn't a team to his liking....a team he once referred to a couple yrs before taking the position as "CLUMSY."

A team for 2yrs his mandate was "PLAYOFFS" or considered a "PLAYOFF" team. Finished what some would call strong last yr,(I didn't), the vets were playing on fear factor and were hoping not to get axed, while other teams were doing their shutdown mojos and jockying for the lottery....you know like we are at this very moment. Came back this season sitting on their laurels only to find out Jackson and the style they wanted to play didn't mesh. During the summer Jackson tagged some players as more toxic(Chandler and Felton) when we all knew that was a crock of turdballs.

Okay all of this is water under the bridge but what I find comical....we finished the season strong last yr some thought we'd come back better this year, we didn't. Now we're finishing the season trashaholic style and the same contingency thinks we're going to come back strong next yr, maybe... but can we be any worse?

Seems to me doesn't matter what this team does, how they finish, who we bring in or who we don't....the kool-aid always taste fresh to them and they finish every gulp with tongue licking their top row of teeth.

What I hope at this point, the lottery draft talent produces itself abundantly in either 1 or more individuals. The other, wise choices are made in free agency with cap space no matter how dire things may get...(2010 summer repeat)

welcometonycity · Mar 24, 2015

Tiger I don't think he knows who Metrocard is he joined recently in 2013. Metrocard is on nykfp.com all the time.

a lot of og members are there like Stephon_marbury, smokes, amareisreal, ronoranina, ny_swagger etc

no disrespect to this site but peace!!!!

One day I hope to see it pass the record high of members logged in at once again. I remember the night we traded for Melo we broke that record. Then came the sites downfall a year or so later.....

Clyde if you see this come to nykfp.com brotha!!!

Broadway · Mar 24, 2015

welcometonycity said:
But you joined in 2013? Lol the negativity by new comers ^ is what killed this site.
I understand your a new comer and protecting your favorite site but I wasn't even referencing you clown.
Sit your ass down child.

Lmao poor guy

Salute to Clyde and others for still posting here!!
Unfortunately will never be the same though....

nykfp.com place to be come now!

shyt dead here only like 10 posters!!!!!!!!

So in other words you are incapable of doing what's capable

"Just relax with the dogs or go back to worrying if your posting matches other forums-blogs

Meanwhile we'll tighten up the circle because when hating comes from out of space we'll curve you"

Click to expand...

^^^^^^^^^
D-Block Reversed

tiger0330 · Mar 24, 2015

welcometonycity said:
Tiger I don't think he knows who Metrocard is he joined recently in 2013. Metrocard is on nykfp.com all the time.

a lot of og members are there like Stephon_marbury, smokes, amareisreal, ronoranina, ny_swagger etc

no disrespect to this site but peace!!!!

One day I hope to see it pass the record high of members logged in at once again. I remember the night we traded for Melo we broke that record. Then came the sites downfall a year or so later.....

Clyde if you see this come to nykfp.com brotha!!!

welcometonycity - You know I have a login to nykfp.com but this place is home. Been here since 2005 and still think it is the technically best web site around with a nice user interface, not crazy about OBGlobal's interface with the wide borders and bold colors that I find distracting. Not sure why you or the other guys left but there's no law saying you can't post to more than one site. We have some knowledgeable and avid fans that post here like Broadway, Mafra, htr10, Paul, Wargames, Kiya, Chief, Paris, CC and others and I would love to see you guys back even if it's to post only occasionally.

CoolClyde · Mar 24, 2015

welcometonycity said:
Tiger I don't think he knows who Metrocard is he joined recently in 2013. Metrocard is on nykfp.com all the time.

a lot of og members are there like Stephon_marbury, smokes, amareisreal, ronoranina, ny_swagger etc

no disrespect to this site but peace!!!!

One day I hope to see it pass the record high of members logged in at once again. I remember the night we traded for Melo we broke that record. Then came the sites downfall a year or so later.....

Clyde if you see this come to nykfp.com brotha!!!

thanks man, see you there!

Kiyaman · Mar 25, 2015

tiger0330 said:
welcometonycity - You know I have a login to nykfp.com but this place is home. Been here since 2005 and still think it is the technically best web site around with a nice user interface, not crazy about OBGlobal's interface with the wide borders and bold colors that I find distracting. Not sure why you or the other guys left but there's no law saying you can't post to more than one site. We have some knowledgeable and avid fans that post here like Broadway, Mafra, htr10, Paul, Wargames, Kiya, Chief, Paris, CC and others and I would love to see you guys back even if it's to post only occasionally.

I speak the same .. visiting several Knicks forums are the same as visiting many old neighborhoods, or old jobs.
I do miss the optimist, realist, and compromiser that made this a widely known forum

Kiyaman · Mar 25, 2015

Im wondering .. will Phil force Fisher to run the triangle-offense on the new 2015-16 roster next season?
Will Phil participate next season in coaching the triangle-offense in practice with Fisher before home-games?

I been wanting the Knicks to get a DEFENSIVE coach like the chicago bulls Thibs ever since Dantoni turned him down in Phoenix 2007.
Coach Thibs been winning seasons consistently without the teams super-star player.
Plus coach Thibs defense won the championship title beating the triangle offense in a series 2008

tiger0330 · Mar 25, 2015

Kiyaman said:
I speak the same .. visiting several Knicks forums are the same as visiting many old neighborhoods, or old jobs.
I do miss the optimist, realist, and compromiser that made this a widely known forum

The KOL 3 wise men. Who were/are they?

It's got to be the Triangle

All Star

Legend

Legend

All Star

All Star

Legend

Legend

All Star

Legend

Rotation player

Legend

Legend

All Star

Rotation player

All Star

Legend

Moderator

Legend

Legend

Legend