Game Thread: New York Knicks vs Denver Nugets 1:00pm 2/7/2016

tiger0330 said:

Messina thinks the Knicks may ruin the kid if they make him a traditional big, he's heard Rambis wants to use him in the post more.

The kid isn't like Chandler who could never learn how to play with his back to the basket, I think he could be dominant. That's one of my criteria for Rambis getting the HC job, how he develops KP and JG.

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Dominant at what? and I am curious, what has he done to make you think he could be dominant. I just don't see any big who plays on the perimeter as ever being dominant.. Dirk is an exception because he truly plays like a wing player... and dirk was great, not sure about dominant.

I am not sure what porzingis does or what he is, to even think about dominant.. Its ok, if he never becomes a superstar, you would be ok if he just turns out to be a good player. Right?

I don't think chandler could never learn how to be a back to the basket player, I just think guys like that focus in on their physical attributes and mold their games around that. Chandler since his HS days was always a guy who ran the floor, filled the lanes and got dunks, if you look at his HS footage he is pretty much a similar player now that he was then. He did become a high end defender tho, and that has served him well.

Porzingis may never be a good post player, the knicks drafted him knowing he was a perimeter player, you just rarely see perimeter bigs become dominant post players.. remember guys like gasol started off and worked their way from the inside out.. they became better shooters as the years went on.

It would be nice to see what porzingis actually is, before predicting how good he will be..

Otoh if the point guard angle is cracked up to be what it is 2 things more to say

1 - What players who have talent aren't/wouldn't be good without a high(er) caliber point guard. That's like saying... "If I had a lot of money I'd be rich"

2 - It goes back to what I've said about #kporzee, he has to be so good he has to make up for what we lack. So if our PG situation remains futile then what? He better make like a pg and make everyone around him better then, including the point guard.

I wasn't making any sweeping statements about the state of college basketball or how that compares to a kid being developed overseas... I was just pointing out how KAT was in a great spot last year playing with 7 other All-American players (and I believe 3 other first round picks)... And how Calipari helped groom his inside game by keeping KAT in the paint and influencing him to stay away from the perimeter game.

I'm only speaking specifically about KAT's situation, so I don't take it as a knock at all. Just try not to jump off of what I wrote and extrapolate away to areas I was t intending on going to...

As for KP... I think when people say that playing overseas has its advantages... It's not meant to discredit the state of NCAA (or its quality) it's more so used as to warn that one shouldn't diminish achievements elsewhere b/c of the level of play or the challenges a prospect endures just because he's not exposed to pitting his wares vs other All-american 18 yr-olds... Both have their PROs without having to check a CON.

I don't believe anything is universal here. I'm not sure how KP was used, what he was asked to do in Spain... But just being exposed to playing abroad professional definitely helped him mature (that much is evident how he's handled himself since draft night).

Some players it helps to jump overseas while for some maybe not so much (Jeremy Tyler).

As for the PG situation. I think Calderon has done more than we know to help KP off the court...it's just that a Paul type PG would get KP 6-12 points a night on easy, alley-oop type shots.. KP is lucky to get 1 of those every 5 games with our guards.

No coincidence Melo's best seasons were with Billups and Kidd.

Sure, in a PG driven league... A PG can do more with less bc they dominate the ball... Offense runs thru them... A forward would have to be uber efficient to dominate a game... But KP has the makings to impact games with offense and defense... So there's that.

People have the right to say Mudiay was the better choice. No doubt. However, it's kind of re-writing history now to change the parameters of the argument bc the fact is some folks blasted the pick bc they thought Porzingis was either a bust or a project and that he was too fragile to compete, didn't rebound, and could offer little on defense. Those who felt that were so wrong that it's hard to take what they say now seriously...

With that said... KAT is clearly the better player. How would he handle playing in NY, in front of friends and family? That we'll never know...

Tkf said:

Dominant at what? and I am curious, what has he done to make you think he could be dominant. I just don't see any big who plays on the perimeter as ever being dominant.. Dirk is an exception because he truly plays like a wing player... and dirk was great, not sure about dominant.

I am not sure what porzingis does or what he is, to even think about dominant.. Its ok, if he never becomes a superstar, you would be ok if he just turns out to be a good player. Right?

I don't think chandler could never learn how to be a back to the basket player, I just think guys like that focus in on their physical attributes and mold their games around that. Chandler since his HS days was always a guy who ran the floor, filled the lanes and got dunks, if you look at his HS footage he is pretty much a similar player now that he was then. He did become a high end defender tho, and that has served him well.

Porzingis may never be a good post player, the knicks drafted him knowing he was a perimeter player, you just rarely see perimeter bigs become dominant post players.. remember guys like gasol started off and worked their way from the inside out.. they became better shooters as the years went on.

It would be nice to see what porzingis actually is, before predicting how good he will be..

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Chandler tried but some guys just don't get it like Dwight Howard, he's taken a number of private lessons from Hakeem over the years and his offensive game has not improved much over 10 years in the NBA. Chandler also hooked up with Hakeem one year and got nothing from it, in fact there was one year he was supposed to go back for some more work with Hakeem but he didn't go because he didn't think it was worth it.

Porzingis might be like Chandler for all I know but the Knicks need should find out if he can at least play in the post, can't hurt if he develops some go to moves that can get him some high percentage shots even if he remains a perimeter big.

tiger0330 said:

Chandler tried but some guys just don't get it like Dwight Howard, he's taken a number of private lessons from Hakeem over the years and his offensive game has not improved much over 10 years in the NBA. Chandler also hooked up with Hakeem one year and got nothing from it, in fact there was one year he was supposed to go back for some more work with Hakeem but he didn't go because he didn't think it was worth it.

Porzingis might be like Chandler for all I know but the Knicks need should find out if he can at least play in the post, can't hurt if he develops some go to moves that can get him some high percentage shots even if he remains a perimeter big.

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I had this discussion with a poster before, and we talked about Howard and amare getting lessons from Hakeem. That is all good and well, but this late in your career trying to develop habits you should have developed years ago is hard.. I think Dwight was 7 years too late meeting up with Hakeem.. LOL.. for real. Not that he can't learn a thing or two, but I would not expect any dramatic changes, and we sure didn't... He should have been working on that his whole career and then go to hakeem to fine tune some of his moves..

Tkf said:

I had this discussion with a poster before, and we talked about Howard and amare getting lessons from Hakeem. That is all good and well, but this late in your career trying to develop habits you should have developed years ago is hard.. I think Dwight was 7 years too late meeting up with Hakeem.. LOL.. for real. Not that he can't learn a thing or two, but I would not expect any dramatic changes, and we sure didn't... He should have been working on that his whole career and then go to hakeem to fine tune some of his moves..

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Exactly... The great players acknowledge and develop weaknesses, are sponges that seek out assistance to improve their game...

Sort of like Clyde saying not 1 NYM has come to him asking for tips and stuff.

mafra said:

Exactly... The great players acknowledge and develop weaknesses, are sponges that seek out assistance to improve their game...

Sort of like Clyde saying not 1 NYM has come to him asking for tips and stuff.

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I know this is probably for another topic, but IMO these guys are way overpaid, all of them, every last one of them are vastly overpaid... The NBA pay scale, hell sports period is a damn joke, anyway, they are overpaid and most, not all, most of them are comfortable. They have too much money and too many outside interest. this is why you can appreciate guys like Kobe, despite his flaws he was a student of the game, and worked diligetnly to improve every aspect of his game, and he did that early in his career and continued. he didn't wait until he started breaking down or his skills were declining.. this is what guys like Dwight Howard are doing, and it is not going to end the way he thinks it will.. LOL. as if he probably even cares...smh

But the knicks do have a HOF guard at the games every night, in clyde ,I would be soaking up all kinds of info from him if I were a player... I mean why else do you play ball? other than getting paid, isn't it to be GREAT?

ok, enough venting.. LOL