We get the show next Friday, should be a goodie
Game thread: New York Knicks vs Washington Wizards 7:30 10/11/19 [Preseason Game #2]
- Thread starter rady
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We get the show next Friday, should be a goodie
ESPN+ article that I thought I share since you can't read it without a sub, only sharing the Ntilikina piece. Not sure I agree with it that DSJ wouldn't be a better fit next to RJ if his shot is as good as Nits but I did say Nits best chance to make it in the league was to become a 3 pt sniper.
Frank Ntilikina | New York Knicks
Photo by Elsa/Getty ImagesSwing skill: Spot-up 3s
Ntilikina finally has positive momentum heading into an NBA season, fresh off a strong FIBA World Cup stint with the French national team. Desperately needing to show signs of improvement, the 2017 top-10 pick might indeed be the best fit alongside Knicks rookie RJ Barrett, as long as he can make enough spot-up 3s to keep defenses honest.
For all the talk of a point guard battle between Dennis Smith Jr., Ntilikina and Elfrid Payton in New York, the reality is that Barrett figures to function as David Fizdale's jumbo shot-creator. That's why the Knicks drafted the ultra-confident 6-foot-7 lefty -- to generate the majority of their offense for years to come. That means Barrett needs a PG who can play off the ball, make a spot-up 3 consistently and defend either backcourt spot capably.
Of New York's three PG options, Ntilikina is really the only one who comes close to meeting those qualifications, but he is going to have to develop into a more serviceable catch-and-shoot threat to fulfill that role. With shooting limitations across the roster, the Knicks need Ntilikina to make open 3s more than ever. That's been a struggle for the former Strasbourg product through two seasons. While he did show some promise by ranking in the 45th percentile on unguarded catch-and-shoot jumpers as a rookie, he posted an eFG of just 42.5% on such shots in 43 games last season, 12.9% worse than expected given the shot quality, per Second Spectrum.
Thankfully for the Knicks, Ntilikina looked much more confident and comfortable with France this summer -- thanks in part to the FIBA 3-point line but mostly thanks to his role. Ntilikina functioned much more as a combo guard, playing off ball-dominant shot creators Evan Fournier and Nando De Colo. Ntilikina's ball-screen possessions often came against a scrambling defense, which led to better decisions and increased efficiency around the rim.
Ntilikina's true value might never show until he is on a contender, a team with which he can focus on defending, making open shots and moving the ball. For now, though, if he can improve his catch-and-shoot reliability and add more variety finishing his drives, he'll win out as the best fit alongside Barrett in New York's backcourt.
Frank Ntilikina | New York Knicks
Photo by Elsa/Getty ImagesSwing skill: Spot-up 3s
Ntilikina finally has positive momentum heading into an NBA season, fresh off a strong FIBA World Cup stint with the French national team. Desperately needing to show signs of improvement, the 2017 top-10 pick might indeed be the best fit alongside Knicks rookie RJ Barrett, as long as he can make enough spot-up 3s to keep defenses honest.
For all the talk of a point guard battle between Dennis Smith Jr., Ntilikina and Elfrid Payton in New York, the reality is that Barrett figures to function as David Fizdale's jumbo shot-creator. That's why the Knicks drafted the ultra-confident 6-foot-7 lefty -- to generate the majority of their offense for years to come. That means Barrett needs a PG who can play off the ball, make a spot-up 3 consistently and defend either backcourt spot capably.
Of New York's three PG options, Ntilikina is really the only one who comes close to meeting those qualifications, but he is going to have to develop into a more serviceable catch-and-shoot threat to fulfill that role. With shooting limitations across the roster, the Knicks need Ntilikina to make open 3s more than ever. That's been a struggle for the former Strasbourg product through two seasons. While he did show some promise by ranking in the 45th percentile on unguarded catch-and-shoot jumpers as a rookie, he posted an eFG of just 42.5% on such shots in 43 games last season, 12.9% worse than expected given the shot quality, per Second Spectrum.
Thankfully for the Knicks, Ntilikina looked much more confident and comfortable with France this summer -- thanks in part to the FIBA 3-point line but mostly thanks to his role. Ntilikina functioned much more as a combo guard, playing off ball-dominant shot creators Evan Fournier and Nando De Colo. Ntilikina's ball-screen possessions often came against a scrambling defense, which led to better decisions and increased efficiency around the rim.
Ntilikina's true value might never show until he is on a contender, a team with which he can focus on defending, making open shots and moving the ball. For now, though, if he can improve his catch-and-shoot reliability and add more variety finishing his drives, he'll win out as the best fit alongside Barrett in New York's backcourt.
mafra
Legend
5 points. 2-16 shooting. 5 assists. 3 steals. 11 rebounds. 1 FT attempt. 5 turnovers
This was our stat line production from our PG position tonight. 45 minutes of Payton or Knits.
If DSJ isn?t a good offensive PG, we?ll... this team will win 24 games. You can?t be competitive most nights if this is the QB of your offense.
This was our stat line production from our PG position tonight. 45 minutes of Payton or Knits.
If DSJ isn?t a good offensive PG, we?ll... this team will win 24 games. You can?t be competitive most nights if this is the QB of your offense.
Remember when Mark Cuban acted like he had gotten a future Hall of Famer drafting DSJ? Yeah, he was full of ****.
That said, DSJ needs to get healthy, stay healthy, and make a jump this season and he could easily be one of the better young offensive PGs in the league. Group that with RJ having a solid rookie season, MRob having a solid year 2, Marcus Morris being the best 2 way player we?ve had in years, and the rest of our free agents doing half of what we are overpaying them for and this team maybe wins 35 games.
Otherwise, I think there?s still a very good chance we have the worst record in the league again.
What magnifies the crap PG play by Payton Nits is they were matched up against 2 scrubs in Chiozza and Robinson both undersized PGs and Ish Smith. Maybe it was Fizdale fault in not trying to exploit the size mismatch but our PGs should have dominated their backcourt.
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Payton had his moments last year. If all our guys underperform as we get into the season, no question that we need to consider replacing Fizdale with a coach who actually knows what he is doing.
This came up last night when they were saying that Ben Wallace had said that he saw some similarities between our roster and the old Pistons roster. One of our announcers said okay, but they had Larry Brown as head coach.
This came up last night when they were saying that Ben Wallace had said that he saw some similarities between our roster and the old Pistons roster. One of our announcers said okay, but they had Larry Brown as head coach.
Dark Raider
Starter
Watch the game last night. Fiz offensive scheme is horrible. It the same as last year. I don't think he has any creativity. If that so he doesn't know talent and how to use it. Why in Fiz offense does Frank give up the ball so quickly after he crosses mid-court. Why doesn't he get the ball back to restart the offense? I don't understand what Fiz is doing. Last year, Fiz was sending Frank straight to one of the corner to shoot 3's. WHY??
As for Frank, the ball move more when he was in the game than with Payton. They lost the lead when Frank went to bench in foul trouble.
Frank and Dotson needs to start at the PG and SG. I was impress with Morris & Ellington last night.
LASTLY!! Why does everybody in this forum and other think that Frank success is connected to him making 3's? Why not drive the ball to basket(like D. Rose) and concentrate on making his mid-range jumper. If you can't make the mid-range jumper then how are you expected to make 3's.
As for Frank, the ball move more when he was in the game than with Payton. They lost the lead when Frank went to bench in foul trouble.
Frank and Dotson needs to start at the PG and SG. I was impress with Morris & Ellington last night.
LASTLY!! Why does everybody in this forum and other think that Frank success is connected to him making 3's? Why not drive the ball to basket(like D. Rose) and concentrate on making his mid-range jumper. If you can't make the mid-range jumper then how are you expected to make 3's.
Nits picking up his dribble and passing the ball around the perimeter is on him not Fiz. It's been discussed around here and is attributable to his lack of a quick first step, inability to break down a defense and below average handle for a PG. He's developing a step back jumper that he's used this season but his best chance is to get an above average 3 pt shot if he's going to make it in the NBA.
You're like Kiya, preferring the Knicks play 90's bball but the league is not going back to that with all the rule changes that favor shooters along with fans liking the scoring of this modern era NBA.
I do agree that the jury is out on Fizdale as far as a coach, last year was his honeymoon having the worst roster in the NBA and finishing with the worst record. This year he's got some talent, let's see if he can exceed expectations, I think that should apply to the whole front office. Spending 70M and winding up with a bottom 3 team should be a reason to revamp that front office. I also don't want to hear Mills BS if we do finish bottom 3 that the Knicks made progress with a better finish than last year as an achievement for the team.
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mafra
Legend
Did Justin Anderson have any extra motivation against Marcus Morris and the Knicks on Friday night?
"I'd be lying if I said it wasn't. Obviously, there's been a lot of talk about (Morris hitting him in the head with the ball). My biggest thing is making sure I go out there and whatever opportunity I get, making sure I play hard defensively, compete defensively," Anderson said. "And offensively, I told my brother, I'm just trying to kill. So I'm glad I played that way and maintained my composure and handled it like class.?
"I'd be lying if I said it wasn't. Obviously, there's been a lot of talk about (Morris hitting him in the head with the ball). My biggest thing is making sure I go out there and whatever opportunity I get, making sure I play hard defensively, compete defensively," Anderson said. "And offensively, I told my brother, I'm just trying to kill. So I'm glad I played that way and maintained my composure and handled it like class.?
Tiger .. In the Knicks 2nd preseason game head-coach Fizdale received a notice, 30/60 day NYC eviction in a loss from the Washington Wizards coach Brooks game-plan .. Think bout how many losses or days before the departure of Fizdale???
The Wizards 115 - 99 win over the Knicks looked more like a preseason game of a NBA team vs a Outsider team ....
The Outsider team takes a 15 point lead in the 1st quarter, then lose the 15 point lead in the same 1st quarter.
The NBA team out-scores the Outsider team in the 2nd quarter 41-17 to take a 65-47 Half-Time lead. While the NBA team star scoring guard Beal scored 21 points at half-time.
Wow! Frank picked up 3 quick fouls in the 1st quarter defending PG (Quickish) Smith & SG Beal .. Poor Frank didn't receive any playing-time in the 2nd quarter !!!
Not the first time Frank has been in foul trouble and had to go to the bench. Going to find out what the Knicks really think of him soon, pick up his option and pay him 6.2M next year and make him a RFA for 8.3M qualifying offer or let him become an UFA this summer. The decision is like the opinion of the kid himself, very divisive.
He’s not exactly cheap at the price. DRose signed a deal with the Pistons for 15M/2yrs and is twice the player Ntilikina is, there are guys out there that you can pick up for 6M that can be more impactful imo.
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mafra
Legend
It?s not like the Knicks are desperate for cap relief.... a 6 million dollar option for next season won?t kill the Knicks.
The team should be in the business of accumulating young talent and seeing what sticks.
If it costs 6 million to give us another 2 seasons to evaluate FN.... then the wise decision is to pick it up (especially when you take into account his Summer FIBA play.
This doesn?t mean NY will do it.... but it would be asinine to dump FN for a second round pick in 2 years or something.... that doesn?t help the rebuild.
The team should be in the business of accumulating young talent and seeing what sticks.
If it costs 6 million to give us another 2 seasons to evaluate FN.... then the wise decision is to pick it up (especially when you take into account his Summer FIBA play.
This doesn?t mean NY will do it.... but it would be asinine to dump FN for a second round pick in 2 years or something.... that doesn?t help the rebuild.
That reasoning would apply to DSJ as well, so you would pick up both of their options Oct. 31? That’s 11.8M in cap space tied up between the 2, I think it’s one or the other.
So True !!!
I wonder why the Knicks did not hire the French-coach the Mavs owner Cuban hired weeks before Frank's draft night?
Frank was drafted into the NBA as a 18 yr old French player, having a very short English vocabulary.
On the Fiba team in the off-season Frank were very vocal on the court, not so on the Knicks.
Dark Raider
Starter
Hey Tiger,
Who can the Knicks "pick up for 6M that can be more impactful"??
It ironic that you would talk about D.Rose because if Mills and Perry had not let him walk then Frank would be a lot farther along in his growth as player. Frank has had no one to tutor him in the art of being an NBA PG. Perry and Mills said a journey man in J. Jack was better than the former MVP D. Rose. HOW SMART IS THAT?? Wish we still had D. Rose.
When Frank is on the floor they ball moves!!! He has a good +/- ratio most time. So let do the right thing and keep Frank.
Question: Why don't team ask about the availability of DSJ?? If he is so good then why?? They know that he has a bad back and that only get worst.
Mills and Perry time is very short because running away from the media during the summer was a sign of INCOMPETENT. Anybody that know BB knows there was no plan B, C or D. Sign a bunch of player with no chemistry and expect us to win. Then we get another snow job about what they are going to do in F.A. This time last year it was Tanking, getting the #1 pick, signing K.D. and K.I. then they trade K.P.
Please go get Magic Johnson, bring back Phil and C. Gaines!!! "Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi. You're our(Knicks) only hope"
Who can the Knicks "pick up for 6M that can be more impactful"??
It ironic that you would talk about D.Rose because if Mills and Perry had not let him walk then Frank would be a lot farther along in his growth as player. Frank has had no one to tutor him in the art of being an NBA PG. Perry and Mills said a journey man in J. Jack was better than the former MVP D. Rose. HOW SMART IS THAT?? Wish we still had D. Rose.
When Frank is on the floor they ball moves!!! He has a good +/- ratio most time. So let do the right thing and keep Frank.
Question: Why don't team ask about the availability of DSJ?? If he is so good then why?? They know that he has a bad back and that only get worst.
Mills and Perry time is very short because running away from the media during the summer was a sign of INCOMPETENT. Anybody that know BB knows there was no plan B, C or D. Sign a bunch of player with no chemistry and expect us to win. Then we get another snow job about what they are going to do in F.A. This time last year it was Tanking, getting the #1 pick, signing K.D. and K.I. then they trade K.P.
Please go get Magic Johnson, bring back Phil and C. Gaines!!! "Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi. You're our(Knicks) only hope"
mafra
Legend
If it were me.... I would. We are paying Noah that much, it seems, to it play for us.
What?s the big deal committing 1 more year to those 2 young players?
They probably won?t, bc they want to save space for AD.... but is AD leaving LAK for NYK?
DRose making 7.5M is in the ballpark of what Nits makes. He earned that contract with the Pistons off the year he had with the TWolves, looks great in the preseason, playing like he’s played his whole career, in constant attack mode. D looks better, saw him block a 3 pt. shot on a close out, pretty impressive.
Not a fan of Ntilikina, knows nothing about pushing pace, always goes east and west, he moves the ball because he’s passive. Fiz has said he wants the PG to push the pace and that’s not Nits. Doesn’t shoot the ball well enough to be the off ball guard either. Never liked the kid from before he was drafted saying he was a mediocre athlete and unlike PJ give me the guy that can jump out of the building rather than one that can’t. So given my appraisal of Frank, I think there are a lot of guys that you could pick up for 6M that could be just as impactful.
In his defense, he is young and I have also said that you look at some older guys like Vanvleet, Dinwiddie, DLo that improved esp their shooting after a few years maybe he had a chance.
Dark Raider
Starter
The reason I mention D.Rose is because he could be a Knicks if it wasn't for Perry and Mills not knowing talent. If you remember a few months ago he said he would have loved to stay with the Knicks and tutor Frank.
Now as for Frank progress as a player. I agree with you 100% about Frank being an off ball guard. Frank is a PG, PERIOD!! And for anybody that can't see that doesn't know BB. Not say you don't!! Wouldn't you say that it(Frank Progress) has been hinder by Mills, Perry and Fiz?? As a coach you tell a player what you want and when he doesn't do it, you bring him to bench and point it out. Then you put him back in the game. Sending Frank to corner on ever play to shoot 3's is not in Frank or TEAM best interest. As for 'Pushing Pace' that is why we should have kept D. Rose. Again this would have taught Frank that aspect of the game. Jumping out the gym doesn't always mean you have a jumper. Not sure what that has to do with Frank because he is 6'5" or 6" so you can't teach height.
One other to me a very important reason to have kept D. Rose. When Rose came into the league the knot on him was he didn't have a jumper. Rose develop a jumper and became the league MVP. Doesn't this sound like Frank??
AGAIN....What guys cam be pick up for 6M that could be impactful??