Stoudemire Exposes Mike Dantoni

nyk_nyk said:

Once again you forget to mention that the Suns are 11th in opponent FG%. The Suns play in the western conference with teams that score way more than teams in the east so the PPG allowed stat isn't all that glaring.

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1st: You act like being 11th in anything is a good thing. It's middle of the road and certainly doesn't scream "good defense".

2nd: For years people blamed Dant's system for inflating scores leading to these results. Now that the Suns results are similar it's because they are in the West? I'm not buying it and it certainly isn't consistent with the narrative about SSOL.

3rd. There are plenty of West coast teams that are good at defense and hold opponents to lower scores so just being in that conference is not an excuse. (Portland, Spurs and Lakers come to mind)

4th. Yes being the 3rd worst team in points allowed is a glaring stat and clearly shows that defense has more to do with players than a coach or system. If what Amare said was true then the Suns should be way better than they are now that Dant has been gone for 2+ years. They aren't so blaming Dant is a clear deflection by a player thinking he deserves a max contract like Lebron or Kobe.

5th. Amare averaged more blocks in Dan't system then he does now yet he wants to blame Dant? It's utter crap!

6th. Regardless of what Amare said, the Knicks do not have defensive players nor a superstar who can carry them....hence why we suck. It's not because of Dant but rather our two year salary shedding plan. People ignore this ULTIMATE TRUTH...we suck because of our players...not our coach.

nyk_nyk said:

C'mon man anyone can see this was mostly just him working himself for this summer. Talk highly about a coach who's team has plenty of money to spend. No brainer.

Not saying he was totally lying but he was definitely stroking a bit.

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Kiyaman said:

From Boozer.....hell yeah!
Damntoni was what 1 of 4 assistant coaches on the USA Olympic team that was averaging 30 point wins. com'on!

Utah been trying to trade Boozer last offseason, so a pay raise is out of the question for Boozer in Utah as a resign FA.
Utah have our first-round lottery pick, so they will let Boozer walk.
Boozer FA status may not be as high as David Lee's in this FA market.

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So again, we are supposed to take what Amare says as absolute truth and totally disregard what Boozer says. Both are free agents, both are unlikely to return to their current team and both have played for D'Antoni. I don't know, seems like you guys are just trying to find excuses to hate.

Like I said, if D'Antoni fails, I will admit he is a bad coach and ask for him to be fired. But if we succeed, what will you guys do? Because your hatred is so strong, I find it difficult to believe you will admit you were wrong. You will be sad because the Knicks are winning.

New New York said:

My favorite part was him saying "I was never taught the princiaples of Defense"

I know he started to play the game at late stage in his life (if you consider 14 late) but defense is something that every player knows how to do, it is up to them to apply themselves to doing it!

Maybe he should blame himself for being stupid and getting bounced around between six High schools in four years thus no coach really having an opportunity to work with him!

Or how bout he blame it on the fact that he elected to skip college to jump to The NBA and thus missed the opportunity to learn more about the game then!


Hey Amare, did someone sit you down and teach you how to dunk a basketball or was that something you just picked up from observing the game?

Offense is a phase of the game that you can blame a coach for holding you back on, but defense is soley on you to learn!

Eddy Curry had two defensive minded coaches in Larry Brown and Scott Skiles in the formative stages of his career and did it amount to him being Mutumbo?!

At the end of the Day its about Desire and Amare has none to play D and I do not have any to ever seeing him in a Knicks uniform!!!!!!!!!!

Dude has worst excuses for his failures than dude in the Chinese League

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Damn! I dont want Amare in a Knick uniform too, especially if Damntoni is still the headcoach. But u got Amare all wrong.

I may not have been big-fan of Amare after his rookie sensation of being another "Karl Malone and Barkley" added to the NBA league.
A High School player winning the NBA ROY as a Bigman! thats physical F...ing strength there.
It's not hard to figure out where Amare soft play came from....the man could be a beast on any given night. Being apart of different styles of "TEAM-DEFENSE" is where Amare lacks as a leadership player searching for that MAX contract. It's ashame thats the only talent Bosh have over Amare, and may receive more money than Amare for being able to fit into different defensive team concepts.

Headcoach JVG taught "Team-Defense" around the clock, this is why the Knicks only lacked in offense in so many areas except at center (Ewing).
Which was why we needed an energy caliber offensive player like Sprewell as our SF, to make SG-Houston a weapon on the peremeter.
The same thing with the ole Detroit Bad Boys all around Team-Defense needing SF-Mark Aquire inside/outside offense.

LJ4ptplay said:

So again, we are supposed to take what Amare says as absolute truth and totally disregard what Boozer says. Both are free agents, both are unlikely to return to their current team and both have played for D'Antoni. I don't know, seems like you guys are just trying to find excuses to hate.

Like I said, if D'Antoni fails, I will admit he is a bad coach and ask for him to be fired. But if we succeed, what will you guys do? Because your hatred is so strong, I find it difficult to believe you will admit you were wrong. You will be sad because the Knicks are winning.

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This is the Eastern Conference.....where do u see Damntoni's type of philosophy winning at?
Yeah, lastseason with Zach & Marbury, plus all the 3-point shots we were taking we would've made the playoffs, but then been swept by a defensive team in the first round.

KBlack25 said:

In fairness, Isiah had Z-Bo, Crawford and Marbury...Mike didn't.

And I don't know if D'Antoni liked Jared Jefferies or started him to showcase him for a possible trade. I'm inclined to believe the latter is true...

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Actually, Mike D'Antoni did have Marbury, but he decided not to use him. And Isiah Thomas had a 33-49 season without Zach Randolph. So you can't bring him into the equation.

Jordan Hill deserved playing time, and D'Antoni never gave him the opportunity he needed. Jared Jeffries was a proven scrub, so it made no sense to force Lee to play out of position, for the sake of using Jeffries, when Hill was available.

Mike D'Antoni is a failure, until he proves otherwise.

D'Antoni hasn't even managed to match Thomas' 33 win season.

And lack of talent cannot be used as an excuse, because Thomas got 33 wins on an injury depleted Knick team that featured Eddy Curry as the focal point. Lee is way better than Curry, so there really isn't any excuse.

abcd said:

Jordan Hill deserved playing time, and D'Antoni never gave him the opportunity he needed. Jared Jeffries was a proven scrub, so it made no sense to force Lee to play out of position, for the sake of using Jeffries, when Hill was available.

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I agree with you on Hill, look back at my old posts I was for playing him and playing Douglas.

But he had to play Jefferies if we stood any chance of moving him...regardless of what nice statements they make to the media, Jefferies had to be moved to clear up cap space, which Walsh listed as his goal...and for that to happen he had to be played. I agree that Jefferies is a scrub, but the only way he was going to stand a chance of getting moved was if he played...that's why he guarded PGs almost every game, to show his defensive versatility.

TR1LL10N said:

4th. Yes being the 3rd worst team in points allowed is a glaring stat and clearly shows that defense has more to do with players than a coach or system.

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The Thunder and Bucks are top 10 out of 30 teams in points allowed. Please tell me how that's possible when none of those players have ever been known as good defenders? Note: Kurt Thomas is actually a good defender but hardly gets playing time. Could it be the coach/staff?

I'll wait.

nyk_nyk said:

The Thunder and Bucks are top 10 out of 30 teams in points allowed. Please tell me how that's possible when none of those players have ever been known as good defenders? Note: Kurt Thomas is actually a good defender but hardly gets playing time. Could it be the coach/staff?

I'll wait.

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Nice to cherry pick my entire post just to pull out one point. That said, they are both young quick teams with long arms and decent size. I'm sure having true centers and quick large PG's have something to do with it too. BTW, Durant is an elite perimeter defender and Bogut is an all star caliber center with good size and defense.

Are you saying that if Dant takes over that these teams will become bad at defense?

FYI, pointing out that Ok is a good defensive team directly counters your assertion that the Suns give up point because they are in the West.

Now that we have cleared that up...how about you address all my other points?

TR1LL10N said:

Nice to cherry pick my entire post just to pull out one point. That said, they are both young quick teams with long arms and decent size. I'm sure having true centers and quick large PG's have something to do with it too. BTW, Durant is an elite perimeter defender and Bogut is an all star caliber center with good size and defense.

Are you saying that if Dant takes over that these teams will become bad at defense?

FYI, pointing out that Ok is a good defensive team directly counters your assertion that the Suns give up point because they are in the West.

Now that we have cleared that up...how about you address all my other points?

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Nenad Kristic is a true center??? why because he's tall? He plays very small in case you didn't know.

It's only this year that Bogut has really asserted himself and become a force in the paint defensively. BTW, all-star caliber with good size has nothing to do with defense.

LMAO, so you give no credit to the coaches and only want to highlight the age,quickness and speed of the players??

Who gave Durant "elite perimeter defender" status??

If Dantoni coached these teams then the bar would shift toward offense more than defense and they would probably start allowing more ppg. The Bucks are capable of running but they are best suited as a half court team with the all-star caliber Bogut (right?). Dantoni would ignore that and disrupt things.

nyk_nyk said:

Nenad Kristic is a true center??? why because he's tall? He plays very small in case you didn't know.

It's only this year that Bogut has really asserted himself and become a force in the paint defensively. BTW, all-star caliber with good size has nothing to do with defense.

LMAO, so you give no credit to the coaches and only want to highlight the age,quickness and speed of the players??

Who gave Durant "elite perimeter defender" status??

If Dantoni coached these teams then the bar would shift toward offense more than defense and they would probably start allowing more ppg. The Bucks are capable of running but they are best suited as a half court team with the all-star caliber Bogut (right?). Dantoni would ignore that and disrupt things.

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I never said that coaches don't deserve any credit. I just feel that a coaches impact is limited by what players he has.

TR1LL10N said:

I never said that coaches don't deserve any credit. I just feel that a coaches impact is limited by what players he has.

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Once again, the Bucks and Thunder have players whom have never been known as good defenders yet these teams are good defensively. It has a lot to do with the coaches defensive philosophy. Stop trying to igonore it when its as clear as day.

These coaches are working with players who don't have a history of being good defenders. Why are they successful?

I'll wait.

nyk_nyk said:

Once again, the Bucks and Thunder have players whom have never been known as good defenders yet these teams are good defensively. It has a lot to do with the coaches defensive philosophy. Stop trying to igonore it when its as clear as day.

These coaches are working with players who don't have a history of being good defenders. Why are they successful?

I'll wait.

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Dude...most of the players on both those teams are younger than 24...they were blank slates so to say they were not known as good defenders is meaningless. Yes, coaches can emphasize defense but unless you have the right players it matters not. See Larry brown with the Knicks for proof.

Both the Bucks and Thunder have young quick athletic people with size...that goes a long way. If you think that any coach could have come in here and made us a good defensive team with our roster than your nuts. Our center is really a 6'9" PF who is not a good defender to begin with...could Dant change that? Please don't say "he could have played Darko". Darko had no future with the Knicks and it was more important to showcase Jefferies than play Darko. He had Jefferies playing tremendous defense and successfully increased his value to the point where he could be traded. Everyone seems to forget that these last two years were not meant to be winning years. If they valued winning over getting under the cap we would not have traded Zack, Jamal or Jefferies.

So yes, coaches have an impact but the type of players matter more. I would argue that Dant maximized the production of a talented Suns team during his entire tenure as coach. They have not seen that type of success since he left as a team or individually. They were a suspension and one game away from the finals and most likely a title. Dant is a proven winner and has 3 coach of the year titles under his belt. That cannot be ignored. He has brought his Euro and Italian teams to the mountain top and can do so with the correct roster in NY. All I'm saying is give the guy a chance with a proper roster. He was not brought in here to coach scrubs these last two years. He was brought in here knowing it was a 2 year process and until he has a descent squad I will reserve judgment. It's easy to find flaws using Monday morning quarterbacking when we suck and lose 50 games in a season. As LJ posted in another thread...winning changes everything. Players and personality conflicts would not be an issue if this team was humming along killing it every night.

Just give the man a chance! He has shown on many venues that he can be an elite coach.