2010 Official Draft Thread

NYKnuniversity

NYKnuniversity

Benchwarmer
BringHoopinHome2010 said:
All of the evidence is right here http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Hassan-Whiteside-5660/

"Whiteside?s fundamentals, basketball IQ and overall awareness are well below average, even considering his freshman status. He at times looks out of place in Marshall?s half-court offense, looking as if he?s not quite sure where he should be at any particular moment, which at this late stage in the season makes you wonder about his ability to process an NBA team?s far more complex playbook."

"Whiteside?s weaknesses as a prospect are often just as glaring as his strengths. His main issue revolves around his extremely underdeveloped frame, which hinders him on the offensive end, but more importantly makes him a constant target for post-up plays and renders him an exceptionally poor man to man defender against average college big men. Whiteside gives up deep position in the post with the greatest of ease--seemingly not even fighting back at times-- getting out of his stance quickly, bringing his hands down, and downright giving up on plays, thinking he?ll simply be able to recover and come up with a block, which at this level can indeed be the case on occasion."


"One of Whiteside?s biggest problems lies in his extremely poor passing ability. Playing 851 minutes on the season, Whiteside has dished out only 9 assists, a shockingly low number that ranks him amongst the worst in college basketball in that area. Watching him play, it?s clear that once he touches the ball, he sees nothing besides the rim, often forcing up extremely poor shots and having major issues dealing with double teams, which makes him very turnover prone."

Not to mention the fact that he was playing in an extremely weak Conference USA and could hardly stay eligible.

NYK, what I am saying is that this guy IS a guy for the future, but we are no longer gearing our team towards the future after this season, after this season ends, next season begins, and winning NOW becomes the priority.
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That doesn't disprove his efficiency on the offensive end. He is no Hasheem Thabeet. I didnt necessarily say he was not a work in progress, but its clear he is no Thabeet.
 
B

BringHoopinHome2010

Benchwarmer
Okay, let's clear a few things up:

1) Whiteside averaged 5 made shots per game on 9.5 attempts per game, resulting in his 52% field goal percentage. He would have to make all of his shots to get his 13 ppg if he only took 5 shots per game, then he would be the number 1 pick in the draft.

2) I never compared Whiteside to Thabeet.

3) While 52% isn't a bad percentage, it is not incredibly efficient, plus he shoots under 60% from the line. Combine that with the fact that he can't pass and he becomes not only inefficient, but a liability on the offensive end at the NBA level. Plus he is wire thin and according to the scouting reports is dumb as rocks ( in the schoolbooks and playbooks).

It's not that I don't think he couldn't end up being a decent player, and the Knicks definitely need a player like him on the defensive end, but he can't play on both ends right now (In the NBA). The Knicks need a starting center, you can't start a 20 year old rookie from marshall at center in MSG, especially if you are trying to get guys like Lebron and Carmelo (2011) to come here.
 
NYKnuniversity

NYKnuniversity

Benchwarmer
BringHoopinHome2010 said:
Okay, let's clear a few things up:

1) Whiteside averaged 5 made shots per game on 9.5 attempts per game, resulting in his 52% field goal percentage. He would have to make all of his shots to get his 13 ppg if he only took 5 shots per game, then he would be the number 1 pick in the draft.

2) I never compared Whiteside to Thabeet.

3) While 52% isn't a bad percentage, it is not incredibly efficient, plus he shoots under 60% from the line. Combine that with the fact that he can't pass and he becomes not only inefficient, but a liability on the offensive end at the NBA level. Plus he is wire thin and according to the scouting reports is dumb as rocks ( in the schoolbooks and playbooks).

It's not that I don't think he couldn't end up being a decent player, and the Knicks definitely need a player like him on the defensive end, but he can't play on both ends right now (In the NBA). The Knicks need a starting center, you can't start a 20 year old rookie from marshall at center in MSG, especially if you are trying to get guys like Lebron and Carmelo (2011) to come here.
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We only need him to take 5 shots a game...that doesn't mean he needs to be the #1 pick in the draft, but 53% is efficient, indisputably.

By no means is Hassan a monster on offense. His numbers back that up. I asserted that he was efficient, and the evidence supports that ( 13.5 ppg, shooting 53% and 60% from three, not to mention he has a jumpshot as well for spreading the floor). I am also wondering why his IQ is such a liability....since when is Mike D's playbook very difficult to learn? SSOL is the simplest of playbooks in the ENTIRE NBA. Notoriously dumb players like Amare Stoudamire have even been able to figure out that taking a shot in seven seconds or less is NOT that difficult.


Six blocks a game is six blocks a game. Fact. He controls the paint defensively, runs and spreads the floor, and doesn't excel from plays. GOOD THING WE NEED PLAYERS LIKE THIS

Thanks.
 
TR1LL10N

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
BringHoopinHome2010 said:
Okay, let's clear a few things up:

1) Whiteside averaged 5 made shots per game on 9.5 attempts per game, resulting in his 52% field goal percentage. He would have to make all of his shots to get his 13 ppg if he only took 5 shots per game, then he would be the number 1 pick in the draft.

2) I never compared Whiteside to Thabeet.

3) While 52% isn't a bad percentage, it is not incredibly efficient, plus he shoots under 60% from the line. Combine that with the fact that he can't pass and he becomes not only inefficient, but a liability on the offensive end at the NBA level. Plus he is wire thin and according to the scouting reports is dumb as rocks ( in the schoolbooks and playbooks).

It's not that I don't think he couldn't end up being a decent player, and the Knicks definitely need a player like him on the defensive end, but he can't play on both ends right now (In the NBA). The Knicks need a starting center, you can't start a 20 year old rookie from marshall at center in MSG, especially if you are trying to get guys like Lebron and Carmelo (2011) to come here.
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Would you trade Chandler for a chance to develop a dominant 7 footer? You can't teach size.
 
B

BringHoopinHome2010

Benchwarmer
His numbers will not translate to the NBA, he is too weak and will get beasted on by nba players and just is not as efficient as you seem to think. He only took 5 three-pointers all year so im not sure why you are putting so much stock in his "versatility". Nothing in Whiteside's game sticks out to me as "dominant"

I was making the points about his IQ and such because you said he has great IQ, scouts think otherwise.

Andrew Bynum was raw, but also the youngest player ever to enter the League and was coached up by the leading scorer in nba history, so he is an exception, not the rule.

you can't get that pick for chandler alone anyway. are you willing to mortgage him and eddy currys (finally) expiring contract, which could turn in to melo or another star in a sign and trade, for an unproven 20 year old from a mid-major with low basketball IQ and no passing ability? Come on now
 
sickboy

sickboy

Rookie
we could possibly move into the first, maybe moving chandler. i don't see us getting into the top half of the 1st in any way, but here are some names i'd love to hear when NYK picks:

pipedreams (top half of 1st):
xavier henry, KU- the push for big men could see henry slide out of the top-10, though i doubt it. all-star potential, imo.
patrick patterson, UK- top-effort player with versatility and toughness

realistic (bottom half of 1st, if we land a pick):
gani lawal, GT- hard worker, marked improvement each year in NCAA, good rebounder and room to grow
larry sanders, VCU- potential similar to hassan whiteside, imo; freakish athleticism for big man; plenty of room to grow

2nd rounders:
greivis vasquez- huge fan of his and would love to see him in NY; think MD'A could make his skillset work as well as any coach in the league; great passion/a winner; has his weaknesses (athleticism, TOs, suspect jumper) but has great size, leadership and passing ability. in the 2nd round, he is one of my favorites
lance stephenson- i went to UCincy and live there now, so i watched a lot of him (and have even played with him and many other UC players); plain and simple, he is a freak, but he has lapses; UC's coach is miserable, so it's hard to say who is responsible for lance vanishing at times; he wants to touch the ball every possession and when he doesn't, he gets frustrated easily; one-on-one game is his specialty, both offensively and defensively; hard to guard because of his well-rounded scoring game; great passer; sucks without the ball. part of me thinks he'll have a tough pro career, but part of me has to believe he can harness his immense talent...plus, having him back in NY would be sick. i have a lot to say about him, but i'll quit for now.

others:
eric bledsoe- pg/sg- electric scorer
jarvis varnado- pf- defense
tiny gallon-pf/c- potential
sherron collins- pg- intelligence/experience
denis clemente- pg- playmaking
matt bouldin- pg/sg- intelligence/awareness
luke harangody- pf- role-player qualities
 
S

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
I'd love to give Eric Bledsoe a shot. Whether or not he'd be a good point guard is a question because he was recruited as a PG but then John Wall came along and took that from him...
 
sickboy

sickboy

Rookie
i like bledsoe too, but he didn't showcase a true PG skillset at UK because of wall, like you said.

kinda reminds me of ben gordon, and even our boy toney douglas, but he apparently has the capability to be a true PG, according to calipari and others.

:afro:
 
S

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
Someone in the thread had a point - when was the last time you saw a good big man drafted in the 2nd round?

Point being in the draft you always take the best player available...if that's a shooting guard, then so be it (we could use help at guard anyway)
 
B

BringHoopinHome2010

Benchwarmer
I think if we are going to trade up our target has to be Solomon Alabi. He tested as the biggest guy in the combine and gm's are comparing him to dikembe mutombo, which I think is exactly what we need. Chad Ford from ESPN.com also said that he has tested higher than any other player on the Celtics mental test.

Since the Celtics have the #19 pick, and are reportedly very high on him we would have to move into the middle of the first round. The Timberwolves have three picks in the first round and might be willing to trade their second one (No. 16) for the right deal. Obviously to be done on draft night if Alabi is still available:

Wilson Chandler + 2nd + cash to the T'wolves

No. 16 pick (Alabi) + Ramon Sessions to the Knicks

This deal nets us our future C in addition to another role playing guard who can distribute in D'antoni's offense.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/solomon-alabi
 
Crazy⑧s

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
BringHoopinHome2010 said:
I think if we are going to trade up our target has to be Solomon Alabi. He tested as the biggest guy in the combine and gm's are comparing him to dikembe mutombo, which I think is exactly what we need. Chad Ford from ESPN.com also said that he has tested higher than any other player on the Celtics mental test.

Since the Celtics have the #19 pick, and are reportedly very high on him we would have to move into the middle of the first round. The Timberwolves have three picks in the first round and might be willing to trade their second one (No. 16) for the right deal. Obviously to be done on draft night if Alabi is still available:

Wilson Chandler + 2nd + cash to the T'wolves

No. 16 pick (Alabi) + Ramon Sessions to the Knicks

This deal nets us our future C in addition to another role playing guard who can distribute in D'antoni's offense.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/solomon-alabi
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Now this is more like it. I've read about Alabi, watched some footage etc. He's not as nasty on defense as Mutombo was, but he's definitely got the edge on him offensively - even now as a collegian. He does seem uncomfortable on offense though.

After checking out some tapes, the one thing that impressed me the most out of his natural abilities was his quickness from end to end. He builds some real momentum once he hits 2nd gear, and that translates well into transition offense and defence. He'll fit nicely in a system (sick of that word) that doesn't need to be run from the middle as well.

Great help defence, needs to add weight (now @ 108kg), apparently very coachable and altogether humble. Has had micro surgery though right?

Definitely better than Jeff Foote. Can't believe people are raving about him since we need athletic D over any form of O, and Alabi, IMO, fits the bill.

Great trade, win/win - don't be surprised if the idea isn't even considered or publicised. Sessions for Chandler sounds alright to me too.
 
smokes

smokes

Huge Member
Crazy8s said:
Now this is more like it. I've read about Alabi, watched some footage etc. He's not as nasty on defense as Mutombo was, but he's definitely got the edge on him offensively - even now as a collegian. He does seem uncomfortable on offense though.

After checking out some tapes, the one thing that impressed me the most out of his natural abilities was his quickness from end to end. He builds some real momentum once he hits 2nd gear, and that translates well into transition offense and defence. He'll fit nicely in a system (sick of that word) that doesn't need to be run from the middle as well.

Great help defence, needs to add weight (now @ 108kg), apparently very coachable and altogether humble. Has had micro surgery though right?

Definitely better than Jeff Foote. Can't believe people are raving about him since we need athletic D over any form of O, and Alabi, IMO, fits the bill.

Great trade, win/win - don't be surprised if the idea isn't even considered or publicised. Sessions for Chandler sounds alright to me too.
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Yeah good post BringHoopsHome. I watched Alabi in the tournament and he was pretty impressive. At 16 he would be a good pick, though Whiteside could still be on the board at that point which would give us a difficult decision to make.

Can't find much up to date info on Alabi on the draft websites apart from reactions to his measurements, but he carried his team pretty hard through a couple of those tournament games. Seemed to have good offense and decent clutch ability. With his measurements he could certainly have some defensive impact too. He's been constantly bulking up throughout college too, not a weakling.
 
P

Paul1355

All Star
SSj4Wingzero said:
Someone in the thread had a point - when was the last time you saw a good big man drafted in the 2nd round?

Point being in the draft you always take the best player available...if that's a shooting guard, then so be it (we could use help at guard anyway)
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Carlos Boozer- 2nd Round
David Lee -30th Pick
Rashard Lewis-2nd Round
Dennis Rodman-27th Pick


There are some recent names in there that are top guys that went late 1st round to second round
 
S

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
Point taken.

I still maintain the same point about 7 footers though. How many centers in the 2nd round are going to pan out?

It's different if we're going for a PF but we're not, we need a True C
 
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O & B

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M

moneyg

Starter
if i was the knicks i would buy a earlier second round pick. i want to make sure we get both vasques and varnado. not sure if both will be around when we pick..... V&V
 
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