The Nutty Professor or Big Chief Triangle

T

tiger0330

Legend
This Daily News cover pic and title made me laugh. Phil is running a mini-triangle seminar with a few of the Knicks attending, like KP, Wroten, Gallo, Grant and even JC. However, the subject of the triangle may be no laughing matter when your star player may have questions about it with his recent quote. Here's what Melo said:

“Guys want to feel comfortable in a system,” Anthony said last week, per the New York Post. “I don’t think guys want to be re-educated about a system or how to play the game of basketball and be in a position they might not be comfortable. I think it’s a fine line going after guys who can fit into the system and going after guys who can just play basketball and can bring a winning attitude to this.”
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I've got mixed feeling about all of this. On one hand I love Tibs and I know defense is a staple in NY. He or even Marc Jackson would be great additions to the team and city. On the other hand Phil is the architect behind 11 championships with a system that most people media included don't fully understand. The team at it's core knows the system now so bringing in a few pieces to complement them may be the way to go. To scratch it all and start over may not be the best course of action.

Media bias plays a big part in public opinion. Knicks won 15 more games than last season which I think is progress. Did anyone really expect them to make the playoffs? What was the last team to win fewer than 20 games to make the playoffs the very next year? How often does it happen?

Let's forget about Steven A Smith any other ESPN talking dummy and rate this thing objectively. It aint where we want to be but if worse case is Kurt Rambis stays on, we're not in a bad situation. Fisher was far worse. The man was banging at least one of his teammates (or player's) girlfriend/exwife. Rambis is a decisive dude that knows the triangle. A few more good signings and I think we'll be OK.
 
I'm not giving Phil a pass for making this team 15 games better than last year. No one expected him to bring a chip to NY his first year but the worst record in Knicks history after inheriting a team that missed the playoffs by 1 game, nobody was looking for that either, most would have gotten fired after a disappointing year like that.

He still hasn't hired a HC so he can still convince me that he can hire the best coach available and either scrap the triangle and bring in someone like JVG or come up with a plan to implement the triangle with JVG and maybe a Rambis to run the offense. Hiring Rambis just doesn't make sense, look at his record both in MN and the end of the season here, has he earned the right to be the next Knick HC? S**t PJ fired Woody after he did a better job than Rambis record wise.
 
tiger0330 said:
I'm not giving Phil a pass for making this team 15 games better than last year. No one expected him to bring a chip to NY his first year but the worst record in Knicks history after inheriting a team that missed the playoffs by 1 game, nobody was looking for that either, most would have gotten fired after a disappointing year like that.

He still hasn't hired a HC so he can still convince me that he can hire the best coach available and either scrap the triangle and bring in someone like JVG or come up with a plan to implement the triangle with JVG and maybe a Rambis to run the offense. Hiring Rambis just doesn't make sense, look at his record both in MN and the end of the season here, has he earned the right to be the next Knick HC? S**t PJ fired Woody after he did a better job than Rambis record wise.
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I actually thought Phil should have kept Woodson, but to your point of earning a spot, Fisher or kid didn't earn anything. Nether has Steve Kerr. There are a lot of good coaches that run bad teams with little to no talent. I don't think Rambis' time at Minni is any indication of his ability. But if Phil demands having someone as head coach that knows the ins and outs of the triangle offense we are extremely limited in respect to candidates. Brian Shaw had a team that quit on him, Fisher bangged his player's girlfriend, and there are a bunch of guys on the bench that are old as hell (Jim Clemons and co.) but can any of them do a better job than Rambis?

I'm with you. I'd love to see JVG back or Tibs or Jackson but if that doesn't happen and it has to be a triangle guy who's your pick?
 
donchris said:
I actually thought Phil should have kept Woodson, but to your point of earning a spot, Fisher or kid didn't earn anything. Nether has Steve Kerr. There are a lot of good coaches that run bad teams with little to no talent. I don't think Rambis' time at Minni is any indication of his ability. But if Phil demands having someone as head coach that knows the ins and outs of the triangle offense we are extremely limited in respect to candidates. Brian Shaw had a team that quit on him, Fisher bangged his player's girlfriend, and there are a bunch of guys on the bench that are old as hell (Jim Clemons and co.) but can any of them do a better job than Rambis?

I'm with you. I'd love to see JVG back or Tibs or Jackson but if that doesn't happen and it has to be a triangle guy who's your pick?
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Walton would be my pick, PJ is connected with him as his former player. Isn't that another reason we hired PJ, to convince guys to come to NY? Phil has got the biggest selling tool in the NBA, Dolan's money, no reason he shouldn't be able to convince Luke to take the job, if he muffs on Walton it's just another reason to ask why did we hire him.

A guy that I've thought about that really knows the triangle is Charlie Rosen, he get's on his high horse and says guys that are criticizing the triangle wouldn't know a screen and roll from a Kaiser Roll. He also roasted DFish when he was here saying Fisher wasn't running the triangle. Rosen's name is never brought up as a possible coaching candidate but he was a HC in the CBA, took over the Patroons after Phil left. Rosen is probably not interested along with the Knicks not being interested in him but maybe it will be someone out of left field like that, maybe a college coach?
 
We'll have enough information in 3 months to finally evaluate the success:failure ratio of the PJ era...

Valid or unfounded, PJ can wiggle around and defend his front office prowess... But now it's SHOW US something.

Will he snag a big fish in the free agent pond? Make a trade (or two)?

His immediate imprint can unequivocally be measures based on what the roster looks like come Aug... This is his team.

Long term? That's for discussion down the line. He forfeited the right for fans to be patient she he decided to keep Melo and try to win now.

Sure... He could be a failure yet still leave the team in a good position... If so, we all will remember to credit him later.

But Melo window is almost closed. He's had long enough... He must turn this team into a playoff team this summer...
 
tiger0330 said:
Found this podcast of the Daily News Stefan Bondy discussing the Knicks. It's about 35 minutes long but I thought it was interesting. Bondy expresses many of the things posted here, guys you should pat yourselves on the back for being such knowledgeable fans.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...podcast-stefan-bondy-knicks-article-1.2609676
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Carmelo did not attend and now the media is spinning his absence as no big deal, because the meeting was OPTIONAL...Never any dull moments in the land of the Big Apple, even on petty matters.
 
Broadway said:
Carmelo did not attend and now the media is spinning his absence as no big deal, because the meeting was OPTIONAL...Never any dull moments in the land of the Big Apple, even on petty matters.
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Bondy in his podcast said Melo did attend, how does a guy say he was there when he wasn't. Like you say no big deal whether he was there or not there.

I'm more interested in his view that guys may not want to come to NY because of the triangle. Phil strikes out in FA maybe Melo says PJ can't sign guys because of it and he asks for a trade.
 
It's almost a win-win situation. Either we attract some free agent(s) this summer or we don't (and that forces the Melo issue to the point we finally part ways).

We get some guard help or we deal CA and get some young assets to build around.

I'm hoping for Blatt personally.
 
tiger0330 said:
Bondy in his podcast said Melo did attend, how does a guy say he was there when he wasn't. Like you say no big deal whether he was there or not there.

I'm more interested in his view that guys may not want to come to NY because of the triangle. Phil strikes out in FA maybe Melo says PJ can't sign guys because of it and he asks for a trade.
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My thing is, it never was a big deal until the media tried to jump the gun to make his presence a big deal. Now that misinformation has transpired it becomes a bigger deal than necessary. The media is always trying to shine when it comes to this Fart Ball. Who cares if Melo was there really. Being that he wasn't no surprise, he's never been that enamored with the Triangle and what could he gather from the Pow-Wow anyway.

Stop trying to go out of the way to church Melo up as some changed choir boy. His career is coming to an end, waste the ink on someone else Sheesh!

Yeah eventually one of them will crack, more than likely Melo
 
Broadway said:
My thing is, it never was a big deal until the media tried to jump the gun to make his presence a big deal. Now that misinformation has transpired it becomes a bigger deal than necessary. The media is always trying to shine when it comes to this Fart Ball. Who cares if Melo was there really. Being that he wasn't no surprise, he's never been that enamored with the Triangle and what could he gather from the Pow-Wow anyway.

Stop trying to go out of the way to church Melo up as some changed choir boy. His career is coming to an end, waste the ink on someone else Sheesh!

Yeah eventually one of them will crack, more than likely Melo
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I agree that no one should care if Melo was there or not

For what little it mattered, Melo passed out of the forward position this season and had his highest season average for assists in his career. He almost put up Scottie Pippen triangle offensive numbers this season. Obviously, Melo doesn't play Scottie Pippen defense, but that's another conversation.
 
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Broadway said:
Carmelo did not attend and now the media is spinning his absence as no big deal, because the meeting was OPTIONAL...Never any dull moments in the land of the Big Apple, even on petty matters.
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This is my point Broadway. The media is full of $hit. If there's no story rest assure they will manufacture one.

Back to Rambis. Love it or hate it Phil believes in the triple post offense and wants someone knowledgeable enough to coach it. This is the reality and based in this reality who is the best person to coach it?

Objectively, media bull$hit aside, you've got to give Rambis a serious look. Forget Minnesota, that team sucked, and there are a lot of good coaches that wont get a shot because their teams were terrible.

I'm really not trying to talk Rambis up. I'm not even in love with the triangle. My point is the media has shaped the views of fans, as they always have, and changing direction at this point is like starting all over again, take another 5 years to get relevant again. We actually could be a year away from the playoffs based on what happens in free agency if we stay the course.

Another interesting turn of events could be signing David Blatt. If these 'reports' are accurate a Blatt, Rambis duo could be interesting.
 
This coaching hire will determine PJAx legacy in NY so I'm glad he ain't rushing toba decision. That said: if we keep Rambis:(. Rambis abysmal coaching record speaks for itself. You are what your record says you are Rambis: an under .500 NBA coach. You guys will hate me but if Rambis was black he would have been fired already. Say it ain't so but Woody was fired for doing a much better job. Mark Jackson should be #1 option for Phil right now but I bet he sticks with Rambis. And stop waving the rings around Phil. It's obvious those rings belong to MJ, Scottie, Kobe, and Shaq. You are no Pat Riley PJAx on Chief
 
Phil is moving too slow for me on the HC decision. The Nets already hired Kenny Atkinson and he's coaching in the playoffs, if he's waiting on Luke ask Bob Meyers for permission to interview him and offer him the job. Haven't even seen he's interviewed Blatt and he could do that anytime since he's out of work. Wtf are they doing over there at the front office working on next years draft.
 
Phil holding a triangle camp is an utter embarrassment. If he was ever going to pull this kind of stunt then he should have done it when he first joined the Knicks. Now after two failed seasons and two failed coaches to boot, Jackson goes into critical mode and undermines Rambis publicly. And even better was that ten players came and Melo was not one of them, according to many reports. Even if it was a great class on the triangle...these guys had two years to learn it! Two years! How difficult is this stupid system? If it is so hard then don't enforce it and adapt to your personnel.

Jackson has been a colossal bust of a GM/Pres. His one and only positive is drafting Porzingis, other than that he did not impress what so ever. Keeping draft picks does not qualify you as a good GM, it simply means you aren't such an idiot as to throw them away like Dolan. It's not a positive when Jackson's move have barely been better than Dolan's.

jackson, rambis and this whole outdated triangle will be gone within a year or two and we will have to start over from scratch with a new vision and Dolan running the show with Steve Mills (next man to take Phil's job) guarantee it. Melo will be gone because he wants to win a ring, and then we have to hope and pray that Steve Mills isn't so stubborn as Phil to avoid good coaches like Thibs for the purpose of "philosophical" differences. What a waste.
 
tiger0330 said:
Phil is moving too slow for me on the HC decision. The Nets already hired Kenny Atkinson and he's coaching in the playoffs, if he's waiting on Luke ask Bob Meyers for permission to interview him and offer him the job. Haven't even seen he's interviewed Blatt and he could do that anytime since he's out of work. Wtf are they doing over there at the front office working on next years draft.
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The only candidate is Rambis, because Jackson can become his puppet master and do whatever he wishes and coach through him by channeling Zen or whatever the hell Jackson claims to have that has clearly left his bodily temple.

Jackson's stubbornness of philosophy is already hurting this crumbing team and it will end with Rambis as a fired coach, Jackson as a fired president then advisor to the Lakers.
 
jimkcchief88 said:
This coaching hire will determine PJAx legacy in NY so I'm glad he ain't rushing toba decision. That said: if we keep Rambis:(. Rambis abysmal coaching record speaks for itself. You are what your record says you are Rambis: an under .500 NBA coach. You guys will hate me but if Rambis was black he would have been fired already. Say it ain't so but Woody was fired for doing a much better job. Mark Jackson should be #1 option for Phil right now but I bet he sticks with Rambis. And stop waving the rings around Phil. It's obvious those rings belong to MJ, Scottie, Kobe, and Shaq. You are no Pat Riley PJAx on Chief
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its going to be Rambis because jackson wants his legacy to be the triangle and nothing but
 
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