Who's the 2012-13 MVP thus far?

2012-2013 MVP

  • Total voters
    11
Damn. Chris Paul has made me a believer. MVP play in the first half so far. 12 points 11 assists so far and a buzzer beater over Kobe. This Clippers team is scary deep, probably even deeper than our Knicks.
 
Meh, Chris Paul having a dominating performance against Nash and Morris isn't that impressive to me.

He's definitely in the race, he makes the Clippers what they are. His numbers are too weak for MVP imho, he just doesn't play enough minutes.
 
smokes said:
Meh, Chris Paul having a dominating performance against Nash and Morris isn't that impressive to me.

He's definitely in the race, he makes the Clippers what they are. His numbers are too weak for MVP imho, he just doesn't play enough minutes.
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This ain't fantasy basketball baby.

Paul does have a 25 PER tho, so it's far from weak.
Paul is 4th in PER behind James, Durant, Bryant and Melo and PER isn't really the best stat to measure a player totally, but Paul can probably have a higher PER If he played more, he shoots a high percentage, gets a lot of steals, good rebounder for a 6 foot guy and normally scores 20 ppg with over 10 assist.

You gotta give it to Paul just based on the impact he delivered on the team in such very little usage. His USG is only 21, which is an insane rate of efficiency without dominating the ball so much. Paul really distinguishes himself amongst the rest.

http://hoopdata.com/advancedstats.aspx

Peep it out, it's really interesting to consider.

Paul should of won the MVP in 2008.

Also to consider with Paul on the floor, Los Angeles' offense scores 11.5 points more per 100 possessions than they do when he's riding the bench. He's assisting on 45 percent of his team's field goals when in the game (second behind Rajon Rondo) and is second in win shares (6.3) behind Durant. Paul is also holding opposing point guards to a PER of 11.2 per 48 minutes. Basically all around the most effective player this season in terms of impact.

I won't be upset if Durant or James or Anthony or Duncan or even Bryant wins the award, all have excellent arguments and cases for why they're MVP's.
 
Just look at this game. Chris Paul hit 1 shot in the last 5 minutes of a very close game which they could easily have lost if D12 didn't go get himself fouled out on a bad foul.

CP3 is great but Melo, Lebron, Durant, Kobe, Tim Duncan are all a level above him in terms of players who WIN games for you.
 
smokes said:
Meh, Chris Paul having a dominating performance against Nash and Morris isn't that impressive to me.

He's definitely in the race, he makes the Clippers what they are. His numbers are too weak for MVP imho, he just doesn't play enough minutes.
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Steve Nash averaged 15.5 pts and 11.5 assists during his first MVP campaign in 2005. Chris Paul's numbers this year are pretty darn close at 16.3ppg and 9.2apg. Plus, when you factor in his superiority over Nash in terms of defense (CP3 leads the league in steals @ 2.7 spg), then a strong case can be made for Paul as this year's Most Valuable Player.

Having said all that, as much as I hate to say it, I think LeBron deserves MVP this year once again (Well, so far into the season at least). Considering the fact that he has lead the HEAT into the best record in the East and that his team relies on his production so much this year (Wade and Bosh have been inconsistent), Bron has my vote, sadly. 26.5ppg, 8.6rpg, 7.1apg. He does it all. :barf:

Sorry Melo.
 
smokes said:
Just look at this game. Chris Paul hit 1 shot in the last 5 minutes of a very close game which they could easily have lost if D12 didn't go get himself fouled out on a bad foul.

CP3 is great but Melo, Lebron, Durant, Kobe, Tim Duncan are all a level above him in terms of players who WIN games for you.
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I think you may be confusing game winning shots vs elite players.

Here we got Irving who's basically an all star player soon to be an elite guard with the game winner today against the Bobcats. You can say he won that game, from beginning to END.


Here you have Jamal Crawford, notorious loser for the Knicks who always shot us out of games and took a lot of losses as a Knick, here he comes up big in a sloppy game against Denver by making a crazy and almost impossible shot.


Derek Fisher, one of the worst PG's of our decade; won it big for the Lakers, but most of the credit goes to Kobe and Shaq, because if it wasn't for them, Fisher wouldn't be in the position to hit that shot. That's why clutch players get overrated a lot because people remember one play over the entire game. In deciding who's the MVP, we have to be careful how we observe these things.


These are guards who got the game winning shot at the end of the game.

But it doesn't make any sense to put Chris Paul a level below someone because he didn't make a game winning shot or something to that nature.

Especially since Paul has hit a couple of game winners in his career, especially one against an A level perimeter defender in Igoudala




Consider this.

Paul put up 33 points, 6 rebounds, 13 assist, 2 steals, and a +/- of 14+ which led all players.
Paul shot below 50%, but the rest of his team shot well over 50%.

If Paul didn't play today, do you believe Clippers would of shot 50%? Led by combo guard Eric Bledsoe or even a little PG minutes by Jamal Crawford?

If you can answer that and consider the impact Paul has on the game, it would make sense to not to put him below Melo, Durant, LeBron, Kobe, Duncan, especially when Paul has been doing this for 6 years already.

But this LeBron's best season even better than last season...he's been really effective on defense guard PG's to PF's.

1.LeBron
2. KD
3. CP3
4. Melo
5. Kobe/Duncan
 
You're just putting words in my mouth. I didn't say anything about game winning shots.

CP3 is not a closer of the same calibre as the other elite players that are challenging for MVP, imo.

He scored 14 points or something in the fourth? But he only made 1 shot in the last 5 minutes with the game on the line. He didn't make any plays either. The Clippers pretty much couldn't buy a bucket and got bailed out of that game, against one of the worst defenses in the league.

No doubt Chris Paul is a great player, best PG in the league, but he's not MVP level this year either.

And this game against the Lakers he played well but as I said it's nothing to get hyped about, he beat up on possibly the worst defensive backcourt in the NBA, but couldn't do anything except hit intentional foul free throws down the stretch.
 
I got Durant so far slightly ahead of Lebron. It will come down to these two at the end, I think Durant will win.
Oh and btw what is Kobe doing in the poll? Lakers probably won't even make the playoffs this year.
 
smokes said:
You're just putting words in my mouth. I didn't say anything about game winning shots.

CP3 is not a closer of the same calibre as the other elite players that are challenging for MVP, imo.

He scored 14 points or something in the fourth? But he only made 1 shot in the last 5 minutes with the game on the line. He didn't make any plays either. The Clippers pretty much couldn't buy a bucket and got bailed out of that game, against one of the worst defenses in the league.

No doubt Chris Paul is a great player, best PG in the league, but he's not MVP level this year either.

And this game against the Lakers he played well but as I said it's nothing to get hyped about, he beat up on possibly the worst defensive backcourt in the NBA, but couldn't do anything except hit intentional foul free throws down the stretch.
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That's just a huge contradiction. Clippers would of lost the game without Paul's performance.

Chris Paul isn't a closer? You really have no substance to that back that up, seems very subjective...I'll drop more facts on ya.

From last season, if Paul does what he does in the fourth quarter for an entire game, here's his statline: 28.7 points, 8.2 assists, 3.2 steals on 50 percent shooting per 36 minutes. It all adds up to an astronomical 38.7 PER.

Chris Paul is the best guard in the NBA and when healthy, he's easily elite.

If you don't believe my words, here's a video of Mr. 4th quarter



I'll take Paul over 99% players in the NBA not named LeBron James.

BTW, Paul orchestrated one of the greatest comebacks in NBA postseason history, leading the Clippers on a 28-3 run to finish the game en route to a reality-defying one-point win in Memphis at the 2012 Playoffs.

Along the way, CP3 proved once more why there's no one better to lead a CLUB in the clutch. He's undeniable.
 
Actually they probably wouldnt have lost no, anyone can hit intentional foul free throws. Even if they would have lost it would be because the clippers are freaking awful without cp3... Doesn't mean he's a good closer it means he's the only player who remotely resembles a closer on their team.

Sorry but scoring multiple free throws when your team is up 4-6 points is not clutch to me. If you watched that game and thought it was a clutch performance from him idk what to say.

I'm really not interested in manipulated stats or videos of a particular game, I've watched several clipper games this year while following Bledsoe and for the most part cp3 is shying away from taking or making big shots. Not MVP behaviour.
 
Not to mention all of the stuff you're bringing up is LAST YEAR... We're talking about the MVP race THIS YEAR.

I'm not saying Chris Paul doesn't have the ability to be clutch or a good closer I'm not saying he's never done it in the past.

Right now he looks meek. Quite honestly looked like Pablo Prigioni in several games recently, not that it's mattered because they've been winning but when you're the best PG in the league, best player on your team and you pass up several wide open 3 point shots that tells me something.
 
smokes said:
Actually they probably wouldnt have lost no, anyone can hit intentional foul free throws. Even if they would have lost it would be because the clippers are freaking awful without cp3... Doesn't mean he's a good closer it means he's the only player who remotely resembles a closer on their team.

Sorry but scoring multiple free throws when your team is up 4-6 points is not clutch to me. If you watched that game and thought it was a clutch performance from him idk what to say.

I'm really not interested in manipulated stats or videos of a particular game, I've watched several clipper games this year while following Bledsoe and for the most part cp3 is shying away from taking or making big shots. Not MVP behaviour.
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You're being stubborn.
You have no information that proves CP3 is a bad closer.


It's not clutch to you? Who are, Steve Nash? Lets see you make a free throw when the game is the on the line. Basketball isn't as easy as you think. Come back to reality.

CP3 stats from 2012 still indicate the dude is an elite player in the 4th quarter, he has the ability to preform, not only in the previous season but all throughout his career, and theres nothing you have to prove he can't do it this year. CP3 ain't Pau Gasol, you're acting stubborn and illogical assuming CP3 lost this closer ability.

You haven't watched enough Clippers games well enough then. Paul is the reason why Clippers are elite. MVP behavior? That doesn't even exist. Come up with something more understandable and atleast take the time make sense and explain it better, you're talking out of your ass right now...haven't provided any objective information to this thread and really talking out of how you feel on CP3 and not what you know about him, which is showing to be very little. Paul guided the Clippers to a 16-0 record -- the best monthly mark in franchise history -- in which they won their games by an average of 15.8 points. The Clippers joined the 1995-96 Spurs and 1971-72 Lakers as the only teams in NBA history to complete a calendar month with a record of 16-0. You really gotta shut up about this "Chris Paul passing up shots" nonsense. He's by far the best player on his team and his team is elite, keeping it simple for you, he's the biggest factor on that team. You don't need to close out games when your team is winning the games by 15 points on average, numb nuts.

a2dba626554911e2930d22000a9f12ad_7.jpg


With Chris Paul at the helm, the Clippers have compiled a 25-8 record. Chris Paul is top 3-4 in PER and it's only going to increase.
 
metrocard said:
You're being stubborn.
You have no information that proves CP3 is a bad closer.


It's not clutch to you? Who are, Steve Nash? Lets see you make a free throw when the game is the on the line. Basketball isn't as easy as you think. Come back to reality.

CP3 stats from 2012 still indicate the dude is an elite player in the 4th quarter, he has the ability to preform, not only in the previous season but all throughout his career, and theres nothing you have to prove he can't do it this year. CP3 ain't Pau Gasol, you're acting stubborn and illogical assuming CP3 lost this closer ability.

You haven't watched enough Clippers games well enough then. Paul is the reason why Clippers are elite. MVP behavior? That doesn't even exist. Come up with something more understandable and atleast take the time make sense and explain it better, you're talking out of your ass right now...haven't provided any objective information to this thread and really talking out of how you feel on CP3 and not what you know about him, which is showing to be very little. Paul guided the Clippers to a 16-0 record -- the best monthly mark in franchise history -- in which they won their games by an average of 15.8 points. The Clippers joined the 1995-96 Spurs and 1971-72 Lakers as the only teams in NBA history to complete a calendar month with a record of 16-0. You really gotta shut up about this "Chris Paul passing up shots" nonsense. He's by far the best player on his team and his team is elite, keeping it simple for you, he's the biggest factor on that team. You don't need to close out games when your team is winning the games by 15 points on average, numb nuts.

a2dba626554911e2930d22000a9f12ad_7.jpg


With Chris Paul at the helm, the Clippers have compiled a 25-8 record. Chris Paul is top 3-4 in PER and it's only going to increase.
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Chris paul is their best closer, but that says more about the clippers then him. I don't think he is a good closer, but he isn't bad to have closing. Really i think it boils down to him being in n.o. And getting blown out so much he really hasn't been put in a position in which he was able to establish himself as a good or bad closer... However with his offensive skillset i don't think it would render him a good closer. If there isn't a gray area and it was good or bad that this debate is over, with his skillset i would say he isn't a good closer and maybe eric bledsoe can grow into that. As of now he will be the closer and he'll likely fail at hitting a big shot more then making it. Or he will succeed in finding an open man and them taking the shot.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
 
metrocard said:
You're being stubborn.
You have no information that proves CP3 is a bad closer.


It's not clutch to you? Who are, Steve Nash? Lets see you make a free throw when the game is the on the line. Basketball isn't as easy as you think. Come back to reality.

CP3 stats from 2012 still indicate the dude is an elite player in the 4th quarter, he has the ability to preform, not only in the previous season but all throughout his career, and theres nothing you have to prove he can't do it this year. CP3 ain't Pau Gasol, you're acting stubborn and illogical assuming CP3 lost this closer ability.

You haven't watched enough Clippers games well enough then. Paul is the reason why Clippers are elite. MVP behavior? That doesn't even exist. Come up with something more understandable and atleast take the time make sense and explain it better, you're talking out of your ass right now...haven't provided any objective information to this thread and really talking out of how you feel on CP3 and not what you know about him, which is showing to be very little. Paul guided the Clippers to a 16-0 record -- the best monthly mark in franchise history -- in which they won their games by an average of 15.8 points. The Clippers joined the 1995-96 Spurs and 1971-72 Lakers as the only teams in NBA history to complete a calendar month with a record of 16-0. You really gotta shut up about this "Chris Paul passing up shots" nonsense. He's by far the best player on his team and his team is elite, keeping it simple for you, he's the biggest factor on that team. You don't need to close out games when your team is winning the games by 15 points on average, numb nuts.

a2dba626554911e2930d22000a9f12ad_7.jpg


With Chris Paul at the helm, the Clippers have compiled a 25-8 record. Chris Paul is top 3-4 in PER and it's only going to increase.
Click to expand...

Exactly, this year he has rarely been required to close out games for them because they win by large margins. The close games they have been involved in they mostly lose. Why is this? Yep you guessed it, because CP3 has a hard time creating a play in the half court down the stretch of close games (this isn't just on CP3, it's on the team as a whole).

Same reason I stated previously that I don't think they will be hugely successful in the playoffs. They could go through a couple of rounds but they won't beat OKC in the playoffs.

I would hazard a guess that I've watched more Clipper games than you this season, as I said I watch them whenever I can to see Bledsoe and also because they're an enjoyable team to watch.

I'm sure if you've been watching you've heard the Clippers announcers talking about their concerns over CP3 passing up wide open shots to the detriment of the team.

Sorry but seriously if you watched the game last night I don't know what you think about that performance was clutch... The Clippers nearly lost a 16 point lead in the fourth quarter. They could not make a play during the last 5 minutes of the game. Chris Paul hit one wide open 15 footer and got to the rim ONCE where he was routinely blocked by MWP but luckily D12 decided to foul him over the back.

He did not draw a single foul apart from the dubious one mentioned above, every other FT he hit the foul was given by the Lakers in an effort to get back into the game. Why are you even talking about ME taking free throws? Did I ever say I am in the MVP race? What I'm saying is I don't consider hitting free throws when you are leading by 4-6 points massively clutch. There's nowhere near the same pressure as when you're the trailing team or the game is down to one possession.

If you want to talk stats then let's talk stats.

The PER rating that you've been banging on has a quite simple guide for the level of a player.

25 PER is rated as "Weak MVP candidate"
30 PER is rated as "Strong MVP candidate"

CP3 sits on 25.7 PER (Weak MVP candidate), behind several players including Kobe, Melo, Lebron, Durant.

As I said several times, CP3 is the best PG in the league, is definitely in the MVP race. But is he the front runner? No way.
 
If we want to talk about this season, Clippers are 8-1 against defending division champions.

2-0 vs SAS
2-0 vs LAL
0-1 vs OKC
2-0 vs CHI
1-0 vs BOS
1-0 vs MIA

They look pretty legit so far, thanks to the work of Paul.

Match up of the year will be Knicks vs Clippers on February 10th.
 
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