45-37

[Kiyaman]

21-39 record....22 games left

:barf::barf::barf:
We played 60 games, won 21, and loss 39

9 off those losses could've been wins if we had a
NBA headcoach rather than an Euroleague headcoach.
u just dont DNP expiring-contract players and a 8th pick from the draft.
u just dont do those things in the NBA.

To many of our Knick-fans are still living off of the memories of the Phoenix Suns success with 3 and 4 All-Star players.
Where their interim coach Dantoni got his fame.

Donnie Walsh & Dantoni should be FIRED at the end of the 2009-10 season...

 

[knickzrulezH20]

:barf::barf::barf:
We played 60 games, won 21, and loss 39

9 off those losses could've been wins if we had a
NBA headcoach rather than an Euroleague headcoach.
u just dont DNP expiring-contract players and a 8th pick from the draft.
u just dont do those things in the NBA.

To many of our Knick-fans are still living off of the memories of the Phoenix Suns success with 3 and 4 All-Star players.
Where their interim coach Dantoni got his fame.

Donnie Walsh & Dantoni should be FIRED at the end of the 2009-10 season...

Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[LJ4ptplay]

Sir you are an arguer. Read your own sh*t and realize how ridiculous you sound. You cannot accept the fact that...

1. We don't agree
2. You have no actual logic behind your refutes

I'll help you...

But warning, it only helps to make you look even dumber. Had you did some homework this could of been avoided.

First...



Dated Oct. 31, 2009

You stand corrected but...

Really does it matter WHEN I decided to voice (write) my opinion?

Of course to you it does, but maybe I can help you figure out why.

Here you go...




"2. Guilt by association
The idea here is to imply that some large group of people is correct, where they disagree with your opponent (“Everybody thinks...”), or that some large group of people are incorrect when they agree with your opponent. The fallacy in this type of argument is that the majority is not always either correct or incorrect.

5. Abuse
This does not necessarily mean name-calling, though that is always a good last ditch techinque.

6. The straw man
This technique involves setting up a fictictious or irrelevant situation and then using it to strenghen yourself or weaken your opponent. The point here is to appear to use your opponent's very arguments to set up a situation which you can then use to point out the obvious flaws in his position (whether or not there are any). Of importance is to emphasize the weakest of his points and ignore the strong points."

http://www.conroyhome.net/alan/Analyst/arguing.htm

Those are arguing techniques YOU attempt to use because you cannot discus the topic and accept someone's opinion. Read up.

Once again, please stop. I respect your opinion (and others), try and show me a little respect.

But just in case...



Really, that's called denial. Stop it.

Here's more of the same...



"Of course, SSOL also happens to be the reverse acronym for LOSS. D'Antoni's Phoenix teams were wildly entertaining, consistently successful—and always heading home before the Finals. D'Antoni didn't care that just about every NBA champ since the 1988-89 Pistons had won with defense; once teams slowed the Suns' tempo and systematically broke them down, their lack of commitment to D always surfaced. Always. They had a fatal flaw. It took us four years to realize it."

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3797805

Nice and big for you!

I know your opinion and have respected it. I bumped this thread to put some of the "Fire D'Antoni" opinions in prespective and to show how the expectations of this team were ridiculous and the record should not be a surprise. My entire message has been consistent. Give D'Antoni a proper chance (i.e. a functioning NBA roster) before you pass judgement and ask for him to be fired. It was not directed paricularly at you but at the sudden increase in cries for D'Antoni to be fired.

Then you start off by making a sarcastic comment about how D'Antoni thought the team should make the playoffs. I responded and then you attacked me by calling me stupid. So stop acting righteous and innocent in all this you f*cking hypocrite.

And let's put this in perspective. You created the "Fire "D'Antoni" thread after the Knicks started out the season 0-3 and continued posting until they started winning. You never posted during the month of December and never gave D'Antoni credit for changing his system to fit the players which seems to suggest you just dislike the man. And then as soon as they starting losing again you started chanting for him to be fired again. Just seems like a response lacking consistency and based on emotion.

And you expect me to believe that you have given the man a chance and it's just about the system?!? Especially when your analysis of the system is partially incorrect and they haven't been playing the system since last year?

 

[clumsy]

:barf::barf::barf:
We played 60 games, won 21, and loss 39

9 off those losses could've been wins if we had a
NBA headcoach rather than an Euroleague headcoach.
u just dont DNP expiring-contract players and a 8th pick from the draft.
u just dont do those things in the NBA.

To many of our Knick-fans are still living off of the memories of the Phoenix Suns success with 3 and 4 All-Star players.
Where their interim coach Dantoni got his fame.

Donnie Walsh & Dantoni should be FIRED at the end of the 2009-10 season...

nah....Walsh did the rigth thing...i agree D'Antoni Shouldn't be coaching however.

 

[Red]

I know your opinion and have respected it. I bumped this thread to put some of the "Fire D'Antoni" opinions in prespective and to show how the expectations of this team were ridiculous and the record should not be a surprise. My entire message has been consistent. Give D'Antoni a proper chance (i.e. a functioning NBA roster) before you pass judgement and ask for him to be fired. It was not directed paricularly at you but at the sudden increase in cries for D'Antoni to be fired.

Then you start off by making a sarcastic comment about how D'Antoni thought the team should make the playoffs. I responded and then you attacked me by calling me stupid. So stop acting righteous and innocent in all this you f*cking hypocrite.

And let's put this in perspective. You created the "Fire "D'Antoni" thread after the Knicks started out the season 0-3 and continued posting until they started winning. You never posted during the month of December and never gave D'Antoni credit for changing his system to fit the players which seems to suggest you just dislike the man. And then as soon as they starting losing again you started chanting for him to be fired again. Just seems like a response lacking consistency and based on emotion.

And you expect me to believe that you have given the man a chance and it's just about the system?!? Especially when your analysis of the system is partially incorrect and they haven't been playing the system since last year?

You're ASSUMING people are saying fire him due to our losing (& great expectations) but some have ALREADY explained why they felt that way. And even if they didn't write them immediately that isn't relevent. People's opinions change.

In response to the further explainations to clarify, what did you do....?

You took things out of context, made assumptions, and resorted to name calling.

Again, I posted a link to "arguing techniques" to make you....

 

[Red]

continued...

and others aware that I know what you're doing- purposely or not and it's frustrating.

I can't post the quotes and links right now, but later I can if you want.

Anyway that whole "we aren't running the system anyway since...) tells me something that frankly is disappointing.

Please don't get offended but...

I can tell you and others don't know the "system" you so much defend. Because if you have been watching sure it's slowed down due to limitations but YES it's the same system/philosophy. I could look on youtube and post actual game footage and re-open the SSOL thread and give a lesson on the spread P & R (which to me and other coaches is obvious) and show you that if you think we aren't trying to run it you are mistaken.

The disappointing thing to me is I'm realizing many posters know NBA facts and history BUT don't seem to know the game of basketball.

which means I was discussing things with people who have no idea what they are seeing.

Let alone ALL the valid points (opinions) formed about D'Ants personality and intangibles. Another explanation that you refuse to accept someones differing opinion. On a blog site- that sh*t is sad!

Oh... and I forgot LJ,

that "making the playoffs expectation/ being competitive" wasn't SARCASM...

D'ant really said that. I'll show you the article if you can't find it.

Please someone find that radio cast (pod cast) from ESPN radio today at 10 w/ Brandon Tireney yo... he and the callers say it all!

 

[Red]

Trill I see you...

don't you f*cking start now. Yes trill we have been running the same system. I could show you if you like when I get a chance

 

[TR1LL10N]

and others aware that I know what you're doing- purposely or not and it's frustrating.

I can't post the quotes and links right now, but later I can if you want.

Anyway that whole "we aren't running the system anyway since...) tells me something that frankly is disappointing.

Please don't get offended but...

I can tell you and others don't know the "system" you so much defend. Because if you have been watching sure it's slowed down due to limitations but YES it's the same system/philosophy. I could look on youtube and post actual game footage and re-open the SSOL thread and give a lesson on the spread P & R (which to me and other coaches is obvious) and show you that if you think we aren't trying to run it you are mistaken.

The disappointing thing to me is I'm realizing many posters know NBA facts and history BUT don't seem to know the game of basketball.

which means I was discussing things with people who have no idea what they are seeing.

Let alone ALL the valid points (opinions) formed about D'Ants personality and intangibles. Another explanation that you refuse to accept someones differing opinion. On a blog site- that sh*t is sad!

Oh... and I forgot LJ,

that "making the playoffs expectation/ being competitive" wasn't SARCASM...

D'ant really said that. I'll show you the article if you can't find it.

Please someone find that radio cast (pod cast) from ESPN radio today at 10 w/ Brandon Tireney yo... he and the callers say it all!

LOL..it is not SSOL unless you push the ball and take uncontested shots within seven seconds or less. He can still spread the floor with the PnR, backdoor plays and dribble drags but slow down the offense. (yes I know the game in spite of your assertions) The distinction and uniqueness of his system is the pace at which you attack the basket. It's desgined to stop defenders from adjusting and is predicated on fast decisions, good shooters and a competent PG. Since we have not had a competent PG and our shooters were bricking shots he SLOWED down the offense. He retained many of the plays but slowed it down to a pace that Duhon theoretically could handle. We failed because Duhon failed and because our team can't make open jumpshots.

Saying that he slowed down the offense yet it is still SSOL highlights that it is YOU who does not understand the system. One can run the same exact plays but it would not be SSOL if they consistently use up clock and allow the defense to setup.

Further, you still have not showed why a team can't play defense when they shoot the ball in under 7 seconds. If anything his system is designed to have players away from the paint which should allow them to get back on defense quicker. The reason the Suns and Knicks don't play good D is because they lack good defensive players.

 

[TR1LL10N]

BTW Red, SLOWING down the offense as you already admitted he did negates your entire argument that Lee's stats are inflated because of a run and gun system.

 

[TR1LL10N]

Trill I see you...

don't you f*cking start now. Yes trill we have been running the same system. I could show you if you like when I get a chance

LOL...don't start? Don't start what? I can't have a debate about the Knicks, our coach and the system on a Knicks forum?

It's clear that the more facts brought to the debate that counter your assertions the more emotional you get. You are lurching from one thread to another, throwing insults, acusing posters of things they did not do and repeating yourself. Really Red, you need to relax. It's okay to have your opinions and it's okay to sometimes get something factually wrong. You do not need to become a martyr in order to debate these topics.

 

[TR1LL10N]

One more thing...I did not ever defend SSOL and have never asserted it is any more superior to any other system. I merly pointed out that an offensive scheme does not preclude a team from playing defense. Further I only spoke about SSOL because you inaccurately used it to try and assert that Lee's numbers are artifical and inflated because of a sped up offense that you now admit was slowed down.

Please stop assigning motives to other posters as if you know what is in our heads.

 

[Red]

Trill...

Slowing or "tweaking" the system isn't CHANGING the system. It's MODIFIED (as in adding, removing plays) to accomidate. The SSOL (now that I've seen you read the link) DOESNT mean that a player chucks up shots within 7secs- that's ideally what its prediacted on- yes taking shots before the D gets set, not making sure you shoot within 7 secs.

We all know our talent couldn't run it to perfection but isn't that another reason to not feel it's a good system for us?

Like I said I can't link at the moment but basically...

one draw back (thats been documented) is that the players running in SSOL are supposed to be thinking of the next play WHILE ON DEFENSE and thus aren't able to properly defend. Whether you belive that or not.

Also, since much of the system is predicated on fast breaking, it is theorized that some players play little D to invite getting the ball back and running again. All offense.

The don't start now... was my attempt at humor, it wasn't serious and I'm very calm.

Do you really think D'ant would scrap the very philosophy that he made a name with? Of course not.

Again, our opinions on whether he's running HIS system differ. I understand you don't think so or are using the quote from D'Ant that he said he would change or modify it.

IMO I don't see it. I see it in mad plays but just not successful. What I would like to point out is..

No doubt, better players should equte to better results, but I don't agree w/ the philosophy of catching the D off guard (the whole game) while actually giving the opponent more possesions.

Plus its documented that this system really doesn't stress half court sets when points are needed like at the end or when the shot clock is low. Too many wrong things with it and too little right things.

When you see some of the sets you notice part of the philosophy that wants to "keep the lanes clear for drives" giving one player a chance to O.D. w/ rebounds (D Lee) but it doesn't consider the

 

[Red]

continued...

second chance shot availability. Not one guy- but people under the basket which leads to the 2nd chance/ put backs and increased over the back fouls.

Other systems, such as the Triangle ALWAYS make sure to have multiple players around the hoop when the shot goes up.

That's not a mistake, its by design and another draw back of the system.

Watch and observe as a shot goes up how many players the Knicks have under the basket.

Then watch a Laker or old Bulls game and notice what happens during shots.

These are just fundamental things that coaches know. The system must include ALL things ie.. player positioning (shouldn't be all around the perimeter every play) during shots (off/def), transition and half court sets. This system is weak at some of these things and leads to what we've seen w/ the Suns and us. It has its limitations and I don't read about what U or LJ feel those things are.

You seem too entertained w/ the offensive fireworks.

 

[TR1LL10N]

Red,

SSOL is not SSOL if you don't shoot before the defense has a chance to setup regardless of the shot clock. That is the whole trick to the system and we went away from that. SSOL contains many of the same plays a halfcourt offense employs just sped up. It requires improvisation so I am not sure why individual players would be thinking of the next play while on D...that to me sounds silly and made up. (how can 5 different players all be thinking about a play during the next possession when they don't know how it will unfold?) Further if they are spread out at the 3 point line and not in the paint than they should be able to get back on defense quicker.

The idea that an offensive system stops defense is absurd. It's based purely on anecdotal evidence that the Suns did not play tight defense. Again, I argue it was because of the players, not the system. As someone aptly pointed out, the Suns are the third worst defensive team in the league this year on allowing points scored. That throwas a kink in all the arguments that Dant somehow does not understand the importance of defense even when you and I do. I think we can assume he knows just a bit more than you and I.

 

[TR1LL10N]

You seem too entertained w/ the offensive fireworks.

Another unsubstantiated assertion. I am not a huge fan of SSOL and I value defense. I think if you can put the two together you have a winner. Further...what fireworks? The Knicks have been shooting blanks so how can zI be entertained by anything.

 

[Red]

Another unsubstantiated assertion. I am not a huge fan of SSOL and I value defense. I think if you can put the two together you have a winner. Further...what fireworks? The Knicks have been shooting blanks so how can zI be entertained by anything.

I was refering to PHX.

My "assertion" was an inference (you seem) just my view.
Well enough said then.

do you see any limitations to the SSOL system? if so what?

I think you said u were in Florida. If you can access ESPN radio NY please try and listen to the Michael Kay show now.

 

[TR1LL10N]

I was refering to PHX.

My "assertion" was an inference (you seem) just my view.
Well enough said then.

do you see any limitations to the SSOL system? if so what?

I think you said u were in Florida. If you can access ESPN radio NY please try and listen to the Michael Kay show now.

The only limitation I see is the reliance on an above average PG and the improvisation needed to be effective. In game 7 during crunch time it may be hard to improvise. That said, any competent coach will have rehearsed half court sets that he can call once the game is slowed by increased D and fouls.

 

[LJ4ptplay]

In game 7 during crunch time it may be hard to improvise. That said, any competent coach will have rehearsed half court sets that he can call once the game is slowed by increased D and fouls.

This is where having an isolation "go-to" player at the end of games could lead the system to winning a championship. Coincidentally, most teams that win championships have this option.

Nash was the closest thing they had to a closer. I would not consider Amare and the rest of that PHX cast iso-go-to players. We've seen the system and how successful it can be in the playoffs. The system itself does not preclude a team from winning a championship.

Add the right pieces and D'Antoni's system can win a championship.

 

[TR1LL10N]

This is where having an isolation "go-to" player at the end of games could lead the system to winning a championship. Coincidentally, most teams that win championships have this option.

Nash was the closest thing they had to a closer. I would not consider Amare and the rest of that PHX cast iso-go-to players. We've seen the system and how successful it can be in the playoffs. The system itself does not preclude a team from winning a championship.

Add the right pieces and D'Antoni's system can win a championship.

Good point. I really think people put too much weight into systems and coaches when it's the players that matter.

 

[LJ4ptplay]

You took things out of context, made assumptions, and resorted to name calling.

Wrong.

Like I said, I responded to your sarcasm (although D'Antoni said it, you were sarcastic in your tone, don't deny it) without name calling. You then responded to me by asking "How ****ing stupid are you?".

And please show me where I took things out of context?

Try following your own advice.