Dantoni is the reason for Mozgov's Success

[MusketeerX]

He'd have helped us win more games being wild, unrefined, and constantly fouling and flailing about?

It's not common sense to expect a rookie project C to just produce well and meaningfully in year 1 on any consistent basis. And not after his play in the season when he was named a starter and given time.

And it's a total hypothetical. There is no other word for it. You want a rookie to develop -- that is the only common sense.

Moz has. And in time for a big playoff push, and run, and into the Knick future.

Its not always expected for a rookie to play well, but it is common sense for them to get better with more experience. More playing = a better player.

If this is happening now, after two months of not playing, then it would have happened earlier... D'Antoni cost us games because of his poor coaching, bad rotation, and worse player development. Common sense.

 

[MusketeerX]

Wow. Inevitable?

Not much else can be said after that. I'll bow out before I lose my sanity, and cool.

Sorry iSaYughh, but its true. Talent and a good basketball IQ is going to progress. Also, given his age, and prior experience, it was inevitable.

 

[Clyde & The Pearl]

Wow. Good post.

Now we are to believe we can't figure out the MOTIVES even though all the evidence suggests coach had no confidnece in Moz.

Irrefutable facts include:
1. MDA BENCHING and dnp'd MOZ multiple games, incuding blowouts and when size was needed.

Supporters say although he started at the beginning of the season (which somehow shows he did have confidence) he wasn't ready.

2. Injuries occure, a player was suspended.

Supporters say this has nothing to do with Moz finally being ready. Just mere coincidence.

3. MDA was quoted as saying Moz will again be regulated to the bench BEFORE the game.

Supporters say...
Well nothing because its better to ignore that tidbit

4. Moz has a career night

Supporters say, MDA deserves all the credit for coaching him up, instilling confidence, and making him what he is.

5. MDA tries jokingly to back track and admits Moz performance was a surprise, and he now will think about giving him more minutes

Supporters say, this is irrelevant, it only illustrates how smart MDA is

6. Moz continues to provide help and size

Supporters say that was the plan all along


Being able to admit mistakes is reserved for a select few.

Being able to blindly see things and paint this rosey incorrect picture because coach can do no wrong...

That's reserved for those who meticulously ignore facts and have penchant to look dumb. Keep up the good work fellas.

Red, these guys are clowns. They know what the real deal is but blatantly ignore it. We'll NEVER get through to these dummies. Their only motive is to protect a severely flawed coach...

 

[Clyde & The Pearl]

If Randolph gets minutes due to injury or some other unforseen reason, will you give Dantoni credit then too?

LOL. Great question....

 

[TR1LL10N]

Red, these guys are clowns. They know what the real deal is but blatantly ignore it. We'll NEVER get through to these dummies. Their only motive is to protect a severely flawed coach...

I have never insulted you once so how about you quote my post and address my points instead of taking pot shots in an indirect way. Put up or shut up.

 

[Clyde & The Pearl]

This topic is hilarious. Mozgov was talented... that is why he is playing like he does. That and he's been getting consistent advice from Herb Williams. Mike D'Antoni impeded this kids progress from day one -- making the bad decision to start him, then the bad decision to bench him completely until desperate measure called for him to come into the line-up.

The truth is that if it were not for Wilson Chandler's injury, Shawn Williams' suspension, and Ronny Turiaf picking up two really quick fouls, Mozgov would never have had the chance to shine the way he did.

It took a miracle performance for the coach to recognize his ability.

That is the plain and simple truth.

This is called hitting the nail on the proverbial head. Great post...

 

[iSaYughh]

Its not always expected for a rookie to play well, but it is common sense for them to get better with more experience. More playing = a better player.

If this is happening now, after two months of not playing, then it would have happened earlier... D'Antoni cost us games because of his poor coaching, bad rotation, and worse player development. Common sense.

Kwane Brown? Shit dude. Can list hundreds of players w better pedigrees n experience to Moz, who *didn't* just improve and had stagnated careers.

Moz has been getting experience, too, even if he hasn't been in games.

He has gotten the right kind and mix of experience.

As evidenced by his progress, and how himself feels about his game!

 

[MusketeerX]

Kwane Brown? Shit dude. Can list hundreds of players w better pedigrees n experience to Moz, who *didn't* just improve and had stagnated careers.

Moz has been getting experience, too, even if he hasn't been in games.

I can name hundreds who did.

Some have lower plateaus than others. Some will develop quickly, others will develop over time, but the one key thing in common to actually progressing to that plateau you have some playing time. Mozgov will progress quickly because he has a high IQ, talent, and is mature. He just needed to an opportunity that didn't expect the moon of him right off the bat.

Mozgov's presence would have helped us win more games. D'Antoni failed to recognize it. Hopefully, D'Antoni will stick with him when he has bad games (part of the growing pains), but there is a chance he won't. Look at the fourth quarter of the Clips game. Between a combo of his stubbornness to size and lack of confidence in Mozgov, the seven footer didn't see one minute of playing time.

Now, if Mozgov had been playing over the course of the last two months, perhaps that is a different story and maybe we have a different game.

It's just poor coaching and poor decision making by MDA. Why? Because MDA only knows how to coach his system.... He isn't a flexible coach, and its what makes him a poor coach.

 

[Clyde & The Pearl]

I have never insulted you once so how about you quote my post and address my points instead of taking pot shots in an indirect way. Put up or shut up.

Dude. Why do you want me to rehash the facts. They're all in this thread, all in the Moz deserves consistent minutes thread. Its useless.

By the way I had to call you guys clowns (giving you credit for some sort of intelligence) because if you arent clowning my other option was to call you something that wouldnt be to pleasant.

 

[iSaYughh]

I can name hundreds who did.

Some have lower plateaus than others. Some will develop quickly, others will develop over time, but the one key thing in common to actually progressing to that plateau you have some playing time. Mozgov will progress quickly because he has a high IQ, talent, and is mature. He just needed to an opportunity that didn't expect the moon of him right off the bat.

Mozgov's presence would have helped us win more games. D'Antoni failed to recognize it. Hopefully, D'Antoni will stick with him when he has bad games (part of the growing pains), but there is a chance he won't. Look at the fourth quarter of the Clips game. Between a combo of his stubbornness to size and lack of confidence in Mozgov, the seven footer didn't see one minute of playing time.

Now, if Mozgov had been playing over the course of the last two months, perhaps that is a different story and maybe we have a different game.

It's just poor coaching and poor decision making by MDA. Why? Because MDA only knows how to coach his system.... He isn't a flexible coach, and its what makes him a poor coach.

Exactly!!!!! Thank you. My point and case rested.

It isn't "inevitable" at all!

And when you get a success, and see progress. You take it, and props to the coach for seeing over it.

People acting like we drafted LBJ...

edit -- also, Moz *is* developing quickly...and *has* developed quickly!

 

[Clyde & The Pearl]

Exactly!!!!! Thank you. My point and case rested.

It isn't "inevitable" at all!

And when you get a success, and see progress. You take it, and props to the coach for seeing over it.

People acting like we drafted LBJ...

edit -- also, Moz *is* developing quickly...and *has* developed quickly!

LMAO:teeth::teeth::teeth::teeth::teeth:. Tell the truth. You're Mike D's nephew. We'll all understand...

 

[MusketeerX]

Exactly!!!!! Thank you. My point and case rested.

It isn't "inevitable" at all!

And when you get a success, and see progress. You take it, and props to the coach for seeing over it.

People acting like we drafted LBJ...

edit -- also, Moz *is* developing quickly...and *has* developed quickly!

Moz is developing because of himself. Not because of D'Antoni. It was inevitable that Mozgov was going to develop because of the player he was/is.

 

[TR1LL10N]

Dude. Why do you want me to rehash the facts. They're all in this thread, all in the Moz deserves consistent minutes thread. Its useless.

By the way I had to call you guys clowns (giving you credit for some sort of intelligence) because if you arent clowning my other option was to call you something that wouldnt be to pleasant.

I'm the clown yet you can't quote and debate my points. Okay guy. At this point don't bother as I now know what type of poster you are.

 

[iSaYughh]

LMAO:teeth::teeth::teeth::teeth::teeth:. Tell the truth. You're Mike D's nephew. We'll all understand...

Nice rebuttal. And I wish I was. I'd have even more NBA expertise to slice n dice with.

A total non-sequitur, outlandish hominem is you and Ginger's preferred response to the blunt force trauma of fact, reality, and logic.

So I'm not surprised? :thumbsup:

 

[iSaYughh]

Moz is developing because of himself. Not because of D'Antoni. It was inevitable that Mozgov was going to develop because of the player he was/is.

How do you know this? Not a scout or coach in the universe would have such conviction and dogged faith in their opinion on a player. Let alone Mozgov? Over actual accredited coaches, experts...and the successful reality that their coaching and decisions have brought.

I'll bow out for real on that point. Bc it's impossible to debate in a total circular argument w circular reasoning and proving negatives.

I already clarified and proved the issue of "hypotheticals" versus what is truly common sense, and this notion of "inevitability".

Now it's just a fata compli that Moz would inevitably develop and grow, irregardless of D'antoni and his coaches. Of course, after the fact that he *got* coached up and has been in a transformation.

Same for Amare, Fields, Gallo, and the random development of Nash, Diaw, Bell, Marion, etc etc etc.

 

[Clyde & The Pearl]

I'm the clown yet you can't quote and debate my points. Okay guy. At this point don't bother as I now know what type of poster you are.

What type of poster am I? This I gotta hear.

Didnt mean to burst your bubble, but the facts are here all over this thread. I'd just be repeating what Red, NY NY musketeer and others have pointed out. I'm not trying to e a parrot, and you obviously dont understand.

When I say clown I say it in a non demeaning way. You know, like you're joking us. Dont take things so personal.

 

[Clyde & The Pearl]

Nice rebuttal. And I wish I was. I'd have even more NBA expertise to slice n dice with.

A total non-sequitur, outlandish hominem is you and Ginger's preferred response to the blunt force trauma of fact, reality, and logic.

So I'm not surprised? :thumbsup:

I havent seen one realistic, logical fact posted by you EVER! Just blatant massaging of the truth.

 

[TR1LL10N]

What type of poster am I? This I gotta hear.

Didnt mean to burst your bubble, but the facts are here all over this thread. I'd just be repeating what Red, NY NY musketeer and others have pointed out. I'm not trying to e a parrot, and you obviously dont understand.

When I say clown I say it in a non demeaning way. You know, like you're joking us. Dont take things so personal.

The type of poster who takes pot shots in an indirect way.

The type of poster that rather call people clowns, use emotes and LMFAO then debate.

The type of poster who has entrenched views formed decades ago and tries to apply and stick to those views even when evidence is presented to the contrary.

The type of poster who has now responded to me 3 times in this thread without a single on topic point.


That type of poster...

 

[KBlack25]

I havent seen one realistic, logical fact posted by you EVER! Just blatant massaging of the truth.

Pot...meet kettle.

 

[Clyde & The Pearl]

The type of poster who takes pot shots in an indirect way.

The type of poster that rather call people clowns, use emotes and LMFAO then debate.

The type of poster who has entrenched views formed decades ago and tries to apply and stick to those views even when evidence is presented to the contrary.

The type of poster who has now responded to me 3 times in this thread without a single on topic point.


That type of poster...

Dude I gave you facts. You choose to ignore them along with your buddies. Cant help you there. I think one of you called the primary fact IRRELEVANT. I think you're primary reason for being upset is that its dawned on you that you and your supporters lost this debate 5 pages ago.

I'm comfortable with what I have provided in this thread. Its even more comforting to know that others see it (Red-Musk-NY NY + others) as it actually is. I'm not trying to spin anything. The facts point out that you and your friends are DEAD WRONG.

Now answer this: Whats your ulterior motive for fighting a lost debate for so long?